xbox fans

Zardon · Jan 1, 2003, 11:43 PM

http://www.extremexbox.net/portal/fo...topic.php?t=40

mbeeston · Jan 3, 2003, 03:11 AM

DEATH TO THE NON-UPGRADEABLE COMPUTER!

Renegade[CSR] · Jan 4, 2003, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mbeeston
DEATH TO THE NON-UPGRADEABLE COMPUTER!

If I'm not mistaken, that pretty much sums up every console right there.

In any case, nice wallpaper, downloading now

amuro · Jan 4, 2003, 03:33 AM

you guys are such idiots.

PCs and Game consoles are like apples and oranges (read completely different)

But have similarities such as both were started by similar technology and both were started in the minds of geeks that with out them would never have existed and we would be playing board games today in 2003.

Yet on XBox as opposed to the PC I can play Halo Coop mode with my girl and she really digs it and me more cause we a nice team.

On PC gaming I am mostly stuck by myself but that is a different platform and not only that but you have to upgrade to keep up with the latest games.

JavaFox · Jan 4, 2003, 06:02 AM

You have to upgrade PCs, amuro, only if you want to push the technological envelope. The only reason you don't have to do this with consoles (or why consoles seem to handle any kind of game well versus PCs) is clear: consoles only have to render at 640x480 (or was it 800x600?). The XBOX is a PC itself -- with a modified Pentium III processor and a GeForce3. Any PC with a decent proc' and a GeForce3 will handle ANY game smoothly at those low resolutions.

amuro · Jan 4, 2003, 11:15 AM

Well yeah that may be true but it seems like alot of the Console bashing by "PC gamers" is very ignorant and idiotic.

I have been playing Console games since the Atari 2600 and NES (I played them later like after 1986) but my full console experience comes from SNES, Genesis, Arcades (very much related to consoles) Saturn, PSone, N64, Dreamcast, PS2 and now XBox (I do not have a GameCube.

I have also been playing PC games since Karateka, Montezuma's Revenge on the Apple IIe (or is that just II) and Macintosh from 1984 and 1986.

I also played DooM back when the fastest Intel CPU was a 486DX, I installed Quake back when I had a Pentium 100Mhz PC, then Quake 2. I knew about the Nvidia Nv1 vidcard and all the other 3d decelerators or first vidcards for games. I ignored 3DFX as I thought of them as ripoff artists, although I witnessed the Dual Voodoo2 SLI setup some sucker kid I knew did just to play Unreal in 1998 when months earlier GoldenEye, a first person shooter programed by UK developer RARE appeared only on N64, greatly revolutionized the FPS genre in gameplay ways that have still been very much not improved untill Halo showed up again evolutionizing the FPS genre and not on the PC...yet.

The problem is everybody who knows about PCs should be aware of the fact that higher and bigger does not always mean better its how its done, how its used and how its programed.

The main reason why console games, that do not rely on graphics (untill the XBox) are so refined IS because its a closed architecture (there have been consoles that were upgradable but such upgrades were very expensive)

The developer only has to worry about the highest or lowest resolution that their game engine geometry and colors can display or in the case of the XBox just worry about the highest resolution that TVs are made for 640*480 and in the case of the legendary GoldenEye only had to worry about assembly code.

Everybody knows that on the PCs you have to use a general API that is not platform specific and developers have to worry about idiot companies like ATI who make system crashing drivers.

Not to mention piracy that at least on consoles is minimal and does not affect sales that much due to problems with mod chip installation but on the PC I download many games like RTCWolfenstein and others for free on Kazaa and Mirc and causes dramatic loss of PC game sales.

PC games sell in the thousands, yet console games since the NES, Genesis, SNES, N64, PS2, GameCube and XBox have titles that sell in the millions for a $49.99 dollar game that greatly pays the developer.

PC gaming is a tyrany that is dictated by Videocard vendors that make $400.00 dollar "disposable after 6 months time" products. Videocards that in 2 years don't see their full potential realized due to it being replaced by a newer one every 6 months and nobody wants to buy the low end videocards.

Not to mention having to wait for working drivers that actually play the games with no problems.

I love my PC but as much as I do I play 3d and 2d games on it and I play the best games that I like Jedi Outkast, Alien vs Predator, GTA III, QuakeIII, MOHAA, RTCW, etc but alot of the intersting and majority of games are FPSs that do not evolve due to compatability across PC platforms and that is a shame, even in the year 2003 when Halo shows up on XBox and runs with no problems, is not even fully taxing the XBox and is so replayable because of the variety in gameplay.

I have a P4 2Ghz compaq mobo 512ddr and Nvidia Geforce 3 200TI 64MB, a PIII 1ghz Intel VC820, 512RDRAM, ATI FireGL 8800 128MB, and a PIII 1Ghz 256RDRAM, Matrox G400MAX 32MB DH

Running WinXPProSP1, Win2000ProSP3 and Win98se.

Face it the PC is not just a gaming device its a multi use device, comparing it to a Console that is just for games and not Excel or Word is idiotic.

If what you love is VIDEOGAMES and AAA titles at that then you should rent consoles like the XBox and play Halo or play GoldenEye on the old N64 with the controller and rumble pack. Or better still rent a GameCube and play Metroid Prime just to see how that game handles the FPS genre.

Another thing the whole "oh the consoles do low res" is BS there was a time when PC gaming at 640*480 became a reality and very few could afford it.

Higher rez on PCs was done to hide jagged edges that are now being AA and so on, so higher is not better.

It seems more like a "I have better than you" comparisons instead go to a gym work out and build real muscle to get women and enjoy life.

Vampyromaniac · Jan 4, 2003, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by amuro
Not to mention piracy that at least on consoles is minimal and does not affect sales that much due to problems with mod chip installation but on the PC I download many games like RTCWolfenstein and others for free on Kazaa and Mirc and causes dramatic loss of PC game sales.

PC gaming is a tyrany that is dictated by Videocard vendors that make $400.00 dollar "disposable after 6 months time" products. Videocards that in 2 years don't see their full potential realized due to it being replaced by a newer one every 6 months and nobody wants to buy the low end videocards.

First of all, why would someone making his first post at such a great site as this, have his first words be "you guys are such idiots."

Second, to this: "I download many games like RTCWolfenstein and others for free on Kazaa and Mirc and causes dramatic loss of PC game sales."
STOP IT PLEASE

Third, when you go on about "On PC gaming . . . you have to upgrade to keep up with the latest games.", just what do you think you've been doing with your Atari 2600, NES, SNES, Genesis, Saturn, PSone, N64, Dreamcast, PS2 and now XBox??
I'd like to see you play GoldenEye on your NES!

And lastly, when I read this: "Higher rez on PCs was done to hide jagged edges that are now being AA and so on, so higher is not better", I go cross-eyed

Redstone · Jan 5, 2003, 07:15 PM

Could this guy get off to a worst start?
The new member is quite paragraph happy (20)â€¦ must have just learned it in school this week. He sure is loose with the word idiot. Heard it a lot over the yearâ€™s amuro? He also likes to talk about himself, we all now know every console and PC he has ever owned, what are the "greatest" games and that fact that he has no social skills â€œyou guys are such idiotsâ€.

Finally, I canâ€™t believe this guy comes on here and admits he illegally pirates games off the internet. If he was trying to establish some credibility around here, he failed miserably with that statement. You got some work cut out in front of you amuro.

amuro · Jan 6, 2003, 06:44 AM

Actually my mesage was meant for mbeeston and Renegade[CSR] who made idiotic remarks about the XBox and consoles in general, so I had to stick up for them since it seemed that nobody cared.

And ok I will not use idiot that much instead I will use ignorant since that fits closed minded PC power mongers who fail to realize that although you do have to get a new console its only because of technology and competition from a 4 to 5 year time frame.

The PS2 has more games than a PC right now, its getting more games than the all mighty NES.

ohh BTW word games do not count as PC games.

I play PC games myself but one thing I notice is that FPSs are more refined on the Consoles gameplay wise than on the PC where little has changed.

ToshiroOC · Jan 6, 2003, 07:21 AM

:yawn: amuro, face it, you are posting in a PC forum - and you are making an ass of yourself in front of people who WILL call you down for it. Just stop while you can still think that you might be ahead...

amuro · Jan 6, 2003, 11:23 AM

Hey ToshiroOC this is a GENERAL GAMING POST.

Think about that before YOU start to feel like a DONKEY.

And further the Post was started by and IS named XBox Fans, the only reason, and I will say it again that I said anything IS because some ignorant persons decided to hate or disrespect the XBox fan post.

So if you are still acting like a BabyFanBoy going to a forum post for XBox and you don't have plans on buying one then you should GET out to another post more to your fanboy tastes.

DEATH to the HATRETFILLEDBABYFANBOYS.

***craig5320*** · Jan 6, 2003, 11:37 AM

pesky kids, in my day people could agree to differ. Consoles are v. different from PC's and this argument is age old and done over and over again. maybe you guys should take it over to the flame zone if you haven't already I feel quite a hefty thread coming along.

ToshiroOC · Jan 6, 2003, 12:02 PM

Amuro, I left you a several-page long ass-tearing in that PS2 adapter thread - I suggest you take the time to read it, and then respond sensibly next time. Also, I am not big fan of PS2 - I just think its better, plain and simple. I'm not going to feel like a donkey any time soon - I am damn sure about what I am talking about amuro, and I know why I am saying it. I'm not hating or disrespecting - I'm giving a different opinion. And if you have a problem with that, you are going to suck very hard at life in general. I'm no fanboy, as you repeatedly call me... and I don't feel any particular hatred or death coming at me, except for the inane ranting of a poor idiot who cares a lot more abou the topic than I do...

Zardon · Jan 6, 2003, 12:13 PM

so much for my thread, meant to give xbox users some nice wallpapers? eh

ToshiroOC · Jan 6, 2003, 12:14 PM

Sorry Zardon - didn't mean to disrupt your thread. If you want, I'll delete and repost in the flame warzone in a new thread...

amuro · Jan 6, 2003, 01:08 PM

ToshiroOC as much as I would like to believe you, your initial post and As for calling me names and what not, right off the bat, makes it very hard for you to have any credibility.

However since all you like to do is pick posts and flame them without knowing or reading what was posted or what post you are in...., then claiming that this is a "PC only" post, just adds more evidence against you.

Anyways lets keep this post for XBox fans only, not haters like mbeeston or PS2 promoters like you ToshiroOC.

Now if I was to go to a PS2 Fan post or a PC Fan post and said all the things I said here I would have to be crazy, because I don't do that.

Zardon · Jan 6, 2003, 01:27 PM

you know guys life is short, there is room for all pcs, consoles and yes even macintoshes.

My kid brother has a PS2, a N64, a PS and a gamecube, and every one of them as their merits. The PS2 has the greatest selection of games (and the only one right now with Vice City), the gamecube has some great all round family titles for even the youngest kids to enjoy.

really at heart im a PC fanatic and I like consoles for the occasional game, but I personally feel the XBOX is in a league of its own. why do I say that? well I feel its more a multimedia center, a cut down PC if you wish (and I dont mean that negatively), not only can you play some great games on it like splinter cell, halo, rallisport challenge, but it is a fully fledged DVD player with remote -- true Dolby digital 5.1 sound, an MP3 jukebox with harddrive for parties etc, it even runs a custom version of Windows 2000 !

its a spectacular bargain, I mean just look at the hardware you get (right now its under Â£200 with 4 great games in the UK).

consoles are great yes, but I dont know to me, the xbox is just part console part multimedia centre. A 733mhz P3, DDR ram, DVD player, a western digital 8 gig hard drive, 250mhz custom designed NV2X and with a maximum res of 1920x1080 (HDTV)

XBOX SPEC
CPU 733 MHz Intel Custom Pentium III
Front Side Bus 133 MHz - 1.0 GB/sec
RAM Micron 64 MB DDR SDRAM
Memory Bandwidth 6.4 GB/sec bus
Storage Medium 8 GB Hard Disk
(Western Digital, 5400 RPM)
I/O (Input / Output) w-5x DVD-ROM
Type 9 DVD - 8.5 GB single sided
4x Proprietary USB Game Ports (12 Mbps)
Broadband Ethernet Connection (100 Mbps)
Proprietary Audio/Video Connector
Graphics Processor Unit 250 MHz Custom-Designed NV2X
Max Polygon Performance 125 M/sec
Simultaneous Textures 4.8 G/Sec
Pixel Fill Rate 12w
Compressed Textures Yes (6:1)
Maximum resolution 1920 x 1080 (HDTV Required)
MPEG 2 Support Yes (Standard DVD)
HDTV Game Support Yes (HDTV Cable Required)
DVD Movie Playback Yes (DVD Remote Control Required)
Media Comm. Processor 200 MHz Processor Custom
Designed By NVIDIA
Controls Hard Disk & DVD
Controls High-Speed Ethernet
Controls Proprietary USB Game Ports
Controls Advanced Audio which uses:
licensed technology from UK's Sensaura 3D.
Peripheral Bus (MCP BUS) 400 MB/s (Full Duplex)
Broadband Enabled Yes (10/100 Mbps / TCP/IP / WinSock)
Audio Channels 256
3D Audio Support Yes (64 3D channels)
Operating System - Windows 2000 Core OS
(Custom designed by MS)
- DirectX 8.0a (Drivers)
- Part 1 of the OS is on the hard disk < 1 MB
- Part 2 of the OS can be DVD disc < 500 K
- (Part 1 includes the core OS, DirectX, DVD playback, some drivers and 3D user interface)
- (Part 2 includes things like libraries, other drivers and other features needed by the developer)
- OS takes less then 3 MB in RAM
- The OS has a 3D user interface when no games are inserted to play music CDs, run DVD movies etc.
- The games run in ring 0, known as kernel mode which is the fastest mode possible.
V-CHIP Parental control on DVD's with ESRB ratings
Size Width: ~31cm
Depth: ~27cm
Height: ~10cm
otal Internal Components 800

http://www.xbreporter.com/xbox_syste...ifications.php

amuro · Jan 6, 2003, 02:25 PM

True Indeed.

XBox is my TOP choice because thanks to the XBox the PC will grow more powerfull and hopefully games will also start using all those GeForce 3TI and Radeon T&L and Shader effects faster than other effects of the last couple of years.

hey you might like this link:

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1561&p=1

It is a very specific review of the XBox hardware and very informative.

And yeah I got a PS2 in August 2001 and specs wise I felt just like many developers felt, very disappointed but the main selling point is that its a Sony and nothing else.

You can't really say that about XBox because Microsoft does not make TV sets, walkmans, DVD players, radios, etc.

All Microsoft make is software, the hardware is a joint venture and it was made for developers.

And that I think is a good thing.

Zardon · Jan 6, 2003, 03:58 PM

interesting reading indeed

Quote:

There is no doubt that the NV2A GPU (XBOX) is much more powerful than Sony's Graphics Synthesizer which is the graphics processor contained within the Playstation 2. The GS does not feature any of the pixel or vertex shading capabilities of the NV2A and it derives most of its power from extreme parallelism. While the NV2A has four parallel pixel pipelines, the GS has a total of 16. Not only does that waste die space on the chip itself making it more expensive to manufacture, but it also places all bets on each pipeline being fed regularly with data in order to extract the most performance out of the processor. The GS also has no T&L unit which means that the host CPU handles all of the transform and lighting calculations whereas in the Xbox, the 733MHz host CPU can be freed up from any T&L and vertex setup calculations.

UberLord · Jan 6, 2003, 04:01 PM

That quote about T&L is a load of tosh - the Kryo proved that software T&L (cpu based) is just as if not more effective than fixed hardware T&L on the GPU.

Zardon · Jan 6, 2003, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by UberLord
That quote about T&L is a load of tosh - the Kryo proved that software T&L (cpu based) is just as if not more effective than fixed hardware T&L on the GPU.

yes but isnt the CPU in the PS2 somewhere in the region of 300mhz? would it not be better getting that additional load away from it?

Quote:

What is important to note is the 128KB L2 cache with a 256-bit data bus comes in quite handy in keeping the execution units of the processor busy and even more important is that the CPU does not have to handle any of the T&L calculations. If games are written properly the host CPU should only be used for AI, physics and other such calculations, leaving the GPU to handle all of the T&L and actual 3D rendering. Removing developers from the mindset of the host CPU handling T&L has apparently proved somewhat difficult but the better looking games are testament to the potential of the Xbox GPU when utilized properly.

more info http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1561&p=14

UberLord · Jan 6, 2003, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zardon
[B]yes but isnt the CPU in the PS2 somewhere in the region of 300mhz? would it not be better getting that additional load away from it?

I have no idea about the clock speed of the PS2. You could argue that moving T&L off the processor would be of benefit, but seeing as the origonal GeForce cards shipped with T&L at a much much clock speed than 300Mhz then I'd assume that a 300Mhz processor is more than upto the job of T&L.

mbeeston · Jan 6, 2003, 08:59 PM

ps2 has a 300mhz 128 bit cpu

ToshiroOC · Jan 6, 2003, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by amuro
ToshiroOC as much as I would like to believe you, your initial post and As for calling me names and what not, right off the bat, makes it very hard for you to have any credibility.

However since all you like to do is pick posts and flame them without knowing or reading what was posted or what post you are in...., then claiming that this is a "PC only" post, just adds more evidence against you.

Anyways lets keep this post for XBox fans only, not haters like mbeeston or PS2 promoters like you ToshiroOC.

Now if I was to go to a PS2 Fan post or a PC Fan post and said all the things I said here I would have to be crazy, because I don't do that.

Yet again, you have failed to read what I have posted - I said that these were PC forums - not Xbox forums, not PS2 forums, nor any kind of console forum. Thougth the thread may be Xbox related, that doesn't change the fact that is it in a very PC-related forum. If you have problems with "name calling", might I bring your attention to:

Quote:

I will not use idiot that much instead I will use ignorant since that fits closed minded PC power mongers

, something that you said - don't be hypocritical, please. And I feel that anyone should be able to post their own opinion, even if the thread is oriented towards people of an opposing opinion. Finally, I am not a PS2 promoter - I simply support the GAMES for the PS2. If all of the good games for the PS2 were on the Xbox, I would support the Xbox all the way, since the only thing I use my console for is GAMING, and GAMING is then all I care about. The Xbox may be in a different category of machine, as Zardon said, but if I am only going to be using it for gaming, and it does not have the breadth of software that the PS2 has for gaming, then it simply doesn't cut it.

ToshiroOC

amuro · Jan 7, 2003, 11:36 AM

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

ToshiroOC · Jan 7, 2003, 11:45 AM

How mature. Thank you for that wonderful contribution to this thread - it really enhances the overall quality of the entire community when such long, detailed, and eloquent replies are posted. [/sarcasm]

Zardon · Jan 7, 2003, 06:33 PM

ok ive had enough, this thread is closed.

Jan 1, 2003, 11:43 PM	#1
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	xbox fans http://www.extremexbox.net/portal/fo...topic.php?t=40

Jan 3, 2003, 03:11 AM	#2
mbeeston HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: alberta, canada (thats north of the usa people) Posts: 1,037 Rep Power: 68 System Specs	DEATH TO THE NON-UPGRADEABLE COMPUTER! __________________ R.I.P Roadee - you will be missed T_T peace,love, and war... 3 things people look for... "if your going off the deep end, show off, do a cannon ball!" - me

Jan 5, 2003, 07:15 PM	#8
Redstone CEO Vandelay Industries Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Left Coast Posts: 176 Rep Power: 0	Could this guy get off to a worst start? The new member is quite paragraph happy (20)â€¦ must have just learned it in school this week. He sure is loose with the word idiot. Heard it a lot over the yearâ€™s amuro? He also likes to talk about himself, we all now know every console and PC he has ever owned, what are the "greatest" games and that fact that he has no social skills â€œyou guys are such idiotsâ€. Finally, I canâ€™t believe this guy comes on here and admits he illegally pirates games off the internet. If he was trying to establish some credibility around here, he failed miserably with that statement. You got some work cut out in front of you amuro. __________________ [COLOR=#66ccff]Intel [/COLOR][COLOR=sienna]PIV - 3.0e @ [COLOR=darkorange]3.39[/COLOR] [/COLOR][COLOR=yellowgreen][COLOR=sienna]Cooled by[/COLOR] [/COLOR][COLOR=#66ccff]SWIftech [/COLOR][COLOR=sienna]MCX4000[/COLOR] [COLOR=#66ccff]Asus[/COLOR][COLOR=#ffcc99] [COLOR=sienna]P4P800 SE[/COLOR] [/COLOR][COLOR=sienna]Powered by[/COLOR][COLOR=#66ccff] Antec [/COLOR][COLOR=sienna]TruePower 430[/COLOR] [COLOR=#66ccff]Kingston [/COLOR][COLOR=yellowgreen][COLOR=sienna]Hyperx 4x512MB - PC3200 - 2.5-3-3-8 @ 1:1 timings [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=#66ccff]ATI [/COLOR][COLOR=#ffcc99][COLOR=sienna]Radeon X1950 Pro AGP - Omega Drivers 3.8.421 (Cat 7.10) displayed on a [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=#66ccff]Samsung[/COLOR][COLOR=#ffcc99] [COLOR=sienna]930B LCD[/COLOR] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#66ccff]Creative [/COLOR][COLOR=sienna]Sound Blaster Audigy 4[/COLOR] [COLOR=#66ccff]Win[/COLOR][COLOR=#ffcc99][COLOR=sienna]XP Home stored on a[/COLOR] [/COLOR][COLOR=#66ccff]Western Digital[/COLOR][COLOR=#ffcc99] [COLOR=sienna]1200GB Sata with a[/COLOR] [/COLOR][COLOR=#66ccff]Seagate[/COLOR] [COLOR=sienna]10GB Barracuda IV Slave[/COLOR]

Jan 6, 2003, 07:21 AM	#10
ToshiroOC Unbiased. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,812 Rep Power: 0	:yawn: amuro, face it, you are posting in a PC forum - and you are making an ass of yourself in front of people who WILL call you down for it. Just stop while you can still think that you might be ahead... __________________ [img][/img] [color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color] Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

Jan 6, 2003, 11:37 AM	#12
*craig5320* HH Administrator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 8,565 Rep Power: 445 System Specs	pesky kids, in my day people could agree to differ. Consoles are v. different from PC's and this argument is age old and done over and over again. maybe you guys should take it over to the flame zone if you haven't already I feel quite a hefty thread coming along. __________________ HardwareHeaven on Facebook

Jan 4, 2003, 03:33 AM	#4
amuro DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 147 Rep Power: 0	you guys are such idiots. PCs and Game consoles are like apples and oranges (read completely different) But have similarities such as both were started by similar technology and both were started in the minds of geeks that with out them would never have existed and we would be playing board games today in 2003. Yet on XBox as opposed to the PC I can play Halo Coop mode with my girl and she really digs it and me more cause we a nice team. On PC gaming I am mostly stuck by myself but that is a different platform and not only that but you have to upgrade to keep up with the latest games.

Jan 4, 2003, 06:02 AM	#5
JavaFox E Pluribus Unum Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,203 Rep Power: 0	You have to upgrade PCs, amuro, only if you want to push the technological envelope. The only reason you don't have to do this with consoles (or why consoles seem to handle any kind of game well versus PCs) is clear: consoles only have to render at 640x480 (or was it 800x600?). The XBOX is a PC itself -- with a modified Pentium III processor and a GeForce3. Any PC with a decent proc' and a GeForce3 will handle ANY game smoothly at those low resolutions.

Jan 4, 2003, 11:15 AM	#6
amuro DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 147 Rep Power: 0	Well yeah that may be true but it seems like alot of the Console bashing by "PC gamers" is very ignorant and idiotic. I have been playing Console games since the Atari 2600 and NES (I played them later like after 1986) but my full console experience comes from SNES, Genesis, Arcades (very much related to consoles) Saturn, PSone, N64, Dreamcast, PS2 and now XBox (I do not have a GameCube. I have also been playing PC games since Karateka, Montezuma's Revenge on the Apple IIe (or is that just II) and Macintosh from 1984 and 1986. I also played DooM back when the fastest Intel CPU was a 486DX, I installed Quake back when I had a Pentium 100Mhz PC, then Quake 2. I knew about the Nvidia Nv1 vidcard and all the other 3d decelerators or first vidcards for games. I ignored 3DFX as I thought of them as ripoff artists, although I witnessed the Dual Voodoo2 SLI setup some sucker kid I knew did just to play Unreal in 1998 when months earlier GoldenEye, a first person shooter programed by UK developer RARE appeared only on N64, greatly revolutionized the FPS genre in gameplay ways that have still been very much not improved untill Halo showed up again evolutionizing the FPS genre and not on the PC...yet. The problem is everybody who knows about PCs should be aware of the fact that higher and bigger does not always mean better its how its done, how its used and how its programed. The main reason why console games, that do not rely on graphics (untill the XBox) are so refined IS because its a closed architecture (there have been consoles that were upgradable but such upgrades were very expensive) The developer only has to worry about the highest or lowest resolution that their game engine geometry and colors can display or in the case of the XBox just worry about the highest resolution that TVs are made for 640480 and in the case of the legendary GoldenEye only had to worry about assembly code. Everybody knows that on the PCs you have to use a general API that is not platform specific and developers have to worry about idiot companies like ATI who make system crashing drivers. Not to mention piracy that at least on consoles is minimal and does not affect sales that much due to problems with mod chip installation but on the PC I download many games like RTCWolfenstein and others for free on Kazaa and Mirc and causes dramatic loss of PC game sales. PC games sell in the thousands, yet console games since the NES, Genesis, SNES, N64, PS2, GameCube and XBox have titles that sell in the millions for a $49.99 dollar game that greatly pays the developer. PC gaming is a tyrany that is dictated by Videocard vendors that make $400.00 dollar "disposable after 6 months time" products. Videocards that in 2 years don't see their full potential realized due to it being replaced by a newer one every 6 months and nobody wants to buy the low end videocards. Not to mention having to wait for working drivers that actually play the games with no problems. I love my PC but as much as I do I play 3d and 2d games on it and I play the best games that I like Jedi Outkast, Alien vs Predator, GTA III, QuakeIII, MOHAA, RTCW, etc but alot of the intersting and majority of games are FPSs that do not evolve due to compatability across PC platforms and that is a shame, even in the year 2003 when Halo shows up on XBox and runs with no problems, is not even fully taxing the XBox and is so replayable because of the variety in gameplay. I have a P4 2Ghz compaq mobo 512ddr and Nvidia Geforce 3 200TI 64MB, a PIII 1ghz Intel VC820, 512RDRAM, ATI FireGL 8800 128MB, and a PIII 1Ghz 256RDRAM, Matrox G400MAX 32MB DH Running WinXPProSP1, Win2000ProSP3 and Win98se. Face it the PC is not just a gaming device its a multi use device, comparing it to a Console that is just for games and not Excel or Word is idiotic. If what you love is VIDEOGAMES and AAA titles at that then you should rent consoles like the XBox and play Halo or play GoldenEye on the old N64 with the controller and rumble pack. Or better still rent a GameCube and play Metroid Prime just to see how that game handles the FPS genre. Another thing the whole "oh the consoles do low res" is BS there was a time when PC gaming at 640480 became a reality and very few could afford it. Higher rez on PCs was done to hide jagged edges that are now being AA and so on, so higher is not better. It seems more like a "I have better than you" comparisons instead go to a gym work out and build real muscle to get women and enjoy life.

Jan 6, 2003, 06:44 AM	#9
amuro DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 147 Rep Power: 0	Actually my mesage was meant for mbeeston and Renegade[CSR] who made idiotic remarks about the XBox and consoles in general, so I had to stick up for them since it seemed that nobody cared. And ok I will not use idiot that much instead I will use ignorant since that fits closed minded PC power mongers who fail to realize that although you do have to get a new console its only because of technology and competition from a 4 to 5 year time frame. The PS2 has more games than a PC right now, its getting more games than the all mighty NES. ohh BTW word games do not count as PC games. I play PC games myself but one thing I notice is that FPSs are more refined on the Consoles gameplay wise than on the PC where little has changed.

Jan 6, 2003, 11:23 AM	#11
amuro DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 147 Rep Power: 0	Hey ToshiroOC this is a GENERAL GAMING POST. Think about that before YOU start to feel like a DONKEY. And further the Post was started by and IS named XBox Fans, the only reason, and I will say it again that I said anything IS because some ignorant persons decided to hate or disrespect the XBox fan post. So if you are still acting like a BabyFanBoy going to a forum post for XBox and you don't have plans on buying one then you should GET out to another post more to your fanboy tastes. DEATH to the HATRETFILLEDBABYFANBOYS.

Jan 6, 2003, 12:02 PM	#13
ToshiroOC Unbiased. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,812 Rep Power: 0	Amuro, I left you a several-page long ass-tearing in that PS2 adapter thread - I suggest you take the time to read it, and then respond sensibly next time. Also, I am not big fan of PS2 - I just think its better, plain and simple. I'm not going to feel like a donkey any time soon - I am damn sure about what I am talking about amuro, and I know why I am saying it. I'm not hating or disrespecting - I'm giving a different opinion. And if you have a problem with that, you are going to suck very hard at life in general. I'm no fanboy, as you repeatedly call me... and I don't feel any particular hatred or death coming at me, except for the inane ranting of a poor idiot who cares a lot more abou the topic than I do... __________________ [img][/img] [color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color] Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

Jan 6, 2003, 12:13 PM	Thread Starter #14
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	so much for my thread, meant to give xbox users some nice wallpapers? eh

Jan 6, 2003, 12:14 PM	#15
ToshiroOC Unbiased. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,812 Rep Power: 0	Sorry Zardon - didn't mean to disrupt your thread. If you want, I'll delete and repost in the flame warzone in a new thread... __________________ [img][/img] [color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color] Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

Jan 6, 2003, 01:08 PM	#16
amuro DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 147 Rep Power: 0	ToshiroOC as much as I would like to believe you, your initial post and As for calling me names and what not, right off the bat, makes it very hard for you to have any credibility. However since all you like to do is pick posts and flame them without knowing or reading what was posted or what post you are in...., then claiming that this is a "PC only" post, just adds more evidence against you. Anyways lets keep this post for XBox fans only, not haters like mbeeston or PS2 promoters like you ToshiroOC. Now if I was to go to a PS2 Fan post or a PC Fan post and said all the things I said here I would have to be crazy, because I don't do that.

Jan 6, 2003, 01:27 PM	Thread Starter #17
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	you know guys life is short, there is room for all pcs, consoles and yes even macintoshes. My kid brother has a PS2, a N64, a PS and a gamecube, and every one of them as their merits. The PS2 has the greatest selection of games (and the only one right now with Vice City), the gamecube has some great all round family titles for even the youngest kids to enjoy. really at heart im a PC fanatic and I like consoles for the occasional game, but I personally feel the XBOX is in a league of its own. why do I say that? well I feel its more a multimedia center, a cut down PC if you wish (and I dont mean that negatively), not only can you play some great games on it like splinter cell, halo, rallisport challenge, but it is a fully fledged DVD player with remote -- true Dolby digital 5.1 sound, an MP3 jukebox with harddrive for parties etc, it even runs a custom version of Windows 2000 ! its a spectacular bargain, I mean just look at the hardware you get (right now its under Â£200 with 4 great games in the UK). consoles are great yes, but I dont know to me, the xbox is just part console part multimedia centre. A 733mhz P3, DDR ram, DVD player, a western digital 8 gig hard drive, 250mhz custom designed NV2X and with a maximum res of 1920x1080 (HDTV) XBOX SPEC CPU 733 MHz Intel Custom Pentium III Front Side Bus 133 MHz - 1.0 GB/sec RAM Micron 64 MB DDR SDRAM Memory Bandwidth 6.4 GB/sec bus Storage Medium 8 GB Hard Disk (Western Digital, 5400 RPM) I/O (Input / Output) w-5x DVD-ROM Type 9 DVD - 8.5 GB single sided 4x Proprietary USB Game Ports (12 Mbps) Broadband Ethernet Connection (100 Mbps) Proprietary Audio/Video Connector Graphics Processor Unit 250 MHz Custom-Designed NV2X Max Polygon Performance 125 M/sec Simultaneous Textures 4.8 G/Sec Pixel Fill Rate 12w Compressed Textures Yes (6:1) Maximum resolution 1920 x 1080 (HDTV Required) MPEG 2 Support Yes (Standard DVD) HDTV Game Support Yes (HDTV Cable Required) DVD Movie Playback Yes (DVD Remote Control Required) Media Comm. Processor 200 MHz Processor Custom Designed By NVIDIA Controls Hard Disk & DVD Controls High-Speed Ethernet Controls Proprietary USB Game Ports Controls Advanced Audio which uses: licensed technology from UK's Sensaura 3D. Peripheral Bus (MCP BUS) 400 MB/s (Full Duplex) Broadband Enabled Yes (10/100 Mbps / TCP/IP / WinSock) Audio Channels 256 3D Audio Support Yes (64 3D channels) Operating System - Windows 2000 Core OS (Custom designed by MS) - DirectX 8.0a (Drivers) - Part 1 of the OS is on the hard disk < 1 MB - Part 2 of the OS can be DVD disc < 500 K - (Part 1 includes the core OS, DirectX, DVD playback, some drivers and 3D user interface) - (Part 2 includes things like libraries, other drivers and other features needed by the developer) - OS takes less then 3 MB in RAM - The OS has a 3D user interface when no games are inserted to play music CDs, run DVD movies etc. - The games run in ring 0, known as kernel mode which is the fastest mode possible. V-CHIP Parental control on DVD's with ESRB ratings Size Width: ~31cm Depth: ~27cm Height: ~10cm otal Internal Components 800 http://www.xbreporter.com/xbox_syste...ifications.php

Jan 6, 2003, 02:25 PM	#18
amuro DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 147 Rep Power: 0	True Indeed. XBox is my TOP choice because thanks to the XBox the PC will grow more powerfull and hopefully games will also start using all those GeForce 3TI and Radeon T&L and Shader effects faster than other effects of the last couple of years. hey you might like this link: http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1561&p=1 It is a very specific review of the XBox hardware and very informative. And yeah I got a PS2 in August 2001 and specs wise I felt just like many developers felt, very disappointed but the main selling point is that its a Sony and nothing else. You can't really say that about XBox because Microsoft does not make TV sets, walkmans, DVD players, radios, etc. All Microsoft make is software, the hardware is a joint venture and it was made for developers. And that I think is a good thing.

Jan 6, 2003, 04:01 PM	#20
UberLord A Legend in Underwear Join Date: May 2002 Location: Unknown Posts: 5,255 Rep Power: 0	That quote about T&L is a load of tosh - the Kryo proved that software T&L (cpu based) is just as if not more effective than fixed hardware T&L on the GPU. __________________ Gentoo Linux - Developer (baselayout) Read my blog "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen Roberts

Jan 6, 2003, 08:59 PM	#23
mbeeston HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: alberta, canada (thats north of the usa people) Posts: 1,037 Rep Power: 68 System Specs	ps2 has a 300mhz 128 bit cpu __________________ R.I.P Roadee - you will be missed T_T peace,love, and war... 3 things people look for... "if your going off the deep end, show off, do a cannon ball!" - me

Jan 7, 2003, 11:36 AM	#25
amuro DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 147 Rep Power: 0	Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Jan 7, 2003, 11:45 AM	#26
ToshiroOC Unbiased. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,812 Rep Power: 0	How mature. Thank you for that wonderful contribution to this thread - it really enhances the overall quality of the entire community when such long, detailed, and eloquent replies are posted. [/sarcasm] __________________ [img][/img] [color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color] Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

Jan 7, 2003, 06:33 PM	Thread Starter #27
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	ok ive had enough, this thread is closed.