Episodic gaming: Do we want it? @ CVG

Vikingod · Feb 10, 2007, 06:32 PM

Source: CVG
__________
This week's bombshell dropped by Valve delaying Half-Life 2: Episode Two AGAIN has kicked off renewed discussion on episodic gaming. Is it working and is it a good idea to release games in this format? Eastenders would have been canned long ago if the BBC couldn't get its epidoes out on time.

It all hangs, of course, on the developer. When a major studio like Valve leaves us waiting 18 months between episodes, you'd be excused for reacting negatively to episodic gaming. But then take a look at Telltale Games with Sam & Max.

SFOSOK · Feb 10, 2007, 06:55 PM

Just another way for them to f*ck us and take our money while we are sleeping.

BlueMak · Feb 10, 2007, 07:51 PM

More money for less game time. No thanks.

OmegaRED · Feb 12, 2007, 01:53 AM

With Sin being cancelled this proves Episodic gaming is bad for the consumer. There's no guarantee you'll ever see the next episodes and instead just wasted money on a couple hours of play time. Give us the full game or don't give us a game at all. Half Life is the only game that could work with the episodic content because it has such a huge fanbase, all the smaller titles probably won't sell enough to warrant future episodes.

~~DudeBoyz~~ · Feb 12, 2007, 02:10 AM

But look at how the newer Sam and Max titles are going. They are on their 3rd one already, and that's great!

It reminds me of the old days of shareware when they would release Part One of Commander Keen and then you could order Part 2 and Part 3 if you wanted.

Same thing with Epic Pinball, Duke Nukem and those too. It worked GREAT back in the day.

I guess if you know what you are doing and have a good programming staff, you can get it done the right way.

Valve is just inefficient, I guess.

BlueMak · Feb 12, 2007, 02:21 AM

And Shareware is where now compared to full versions?

~~DudeBoyz~~ · Feb 12, 2007, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueMak

And Shareware is where now compared to full versions?

Episode 1 used to be free, if I remember, and you had to pay for episodes 2 and 3, and I think some additional content (levels, sounds) and the removal of the nag screens when you exited the game.

That's how Apogee, now 3D Realms, and Epic MegaGames, now Epic, got started, if I remember right.

calidan · Feb 12, 2007, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRED

With Sin being cancelled this proves Episodic gaming is bad for the consumer. There's no guarantee you'll ever see the next episodes and instead just wasted money on a couple hours of play time. Give us the full game or don't give us a game at all. Half Life is the only game that could work with the episodic content because it has such a huge fanbase, all the smaller titles probably won't sell enough to warrant future episodes.

Sin was cancelled? I didn't know that. I bet that pissed off alot of people.

SFOSOK · Feb 12, 2007, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calidan

Sin was cancelled? I didn't know that. I bet that pissed off alot of people.

You bet correctly

coldfrontt · Feb 12, 2007, 03:51 AM

I agree. Episodic games really aren't a viable concept anymore. I wouldn't mind if the time between was a couple of months in between, but 18 months is way too long to wait, and then another 18 maybe for 3? I'd rather have waited longer than we did for Episode 1 and get the complete game. Sin being cancelled shows what can happen over time...absolutely nothing.
Of course it can take an incredibly long time to get a complete game...DukeNukem 4ever anyone?

SFOSOK · Feb 12, 2007, 04:03 AM

Looks like I'll be pickin up Sin on steam when it drop to under 5$

OmegaRED · Feb 12, 2007, 04:13 AM

Let's not forget Sin also had steam as its online distribution and that's by far the most successful method if they couldn't succeed that doesn't bode well for other episodic content going through less known outlets.

YAYitsAndrew · Feb 12, 2007, 02:57 PM

Half life isn't the only game doing episodes. Those aren't even really episodes, they're just brand new games that are short and have the word episode in the title.

For real episodic content, check out the new Sam & Max series that telltale games is doing. They release a new episode every month. You can prebuy the entire season for 35 bucks and that will get you 6 episodes. So far they've taken me around 3 hours each and I loved every minute.

If half life is your only experience with "episodic" content, it's time to stop talking. I think this is a really exciting way to play games and I hope sam & max does well enough to get other people to try the model in its true form.

SFOSOK · Feb 12, 2007, 03:22 PM

So just because you have played one other game besides Half-life 2 Episode 1 you are an expert on the subject and all other's opinions should be ignored?

I think not.

OmegaRED · Feb 12, 2007, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YAYitsAndrew

Half life isn't the only game doing episodes. Those aren't even really episodes, they're just brand new games that are short and have the word episode in the title.

For real episodic content, check out the new Sam & Max series that telltale games is doing. They release a new episode every month. You can prebuy the entire season for 35 bucks and that will get you 6 episodes. So far they've taken me around 3 hours each and I loved every minute.

If half life is your only experience with "episodic" content, it's time to stop talking. I think this is a really exciting way to play games and I hope sam & max does well enough to get other people to try the model in its true form.

We get it, you like Sam & Max...you and the other two guys playing it.

~~DudeBoyz~~ · Feb 12, 2007, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRED

Let's not forget Sin also had steam as its online distribution and that's by far the most successful method if they couldn't succeed that doesn't bode well for other episodic content going through less known outlets.

I think STEAM itself may be the problem.

Half-Life had an EXCELLENT reputation and that drew people to steam and because it WAS Half-Life, people were willing to put up with steam.

SIN had no built-in following, so maybe people were just not motivated to use steam just to play that game?

BlueMak · Feb 12, 2007, 08:16 PM

I don't know, I used to be against Steam, but the more I use it the more I like it. Of course there is always (as in other similar systems) the chance that the company will not be there one day, and make it impossible to play the games you bought, but I hope by that time (if it happens) there will be fixes for that.

I am against episodic gaming simply because I find it useless.
And because you pay more for what you would pay if it was full retail version.

SiN had a horrible past (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/1998/11/18, perhaps that was the reason for the less than stellar future/past of it?

~~DudeBoyz~~ · Feb 12, 2007, 09:14 PM

Hey, to each their own, man. I'm hatin' on steam and diggin' episodic stuff. I miss it.

YAYitsAndrew · Feb 15, 2007, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFOSOK

So just because you have played one other game besides Half-life 2 Episode 1 you are an expert on the subject and all other's opinions should be ignored?

I think not.

Actually I follow the model very closely because I've programmed a flash game with episodic distribution in mind and our "pilot" or "demo" or whatever it's called will be released soon.

Gamasutra has tons of reading on episodic content, especially in the past two years. Google can help you find them, but here's one of particular interest.
Gamasutra.com - Why Bother With Episodic Games?

The points about the shortened feedback loop are particularly interesting to me, as a game developer.

I never claimed to be an expert on the subject, but I do know a little something about it because I'm trying to use it to put food on my table.

~~DudeBoyz~~ · Feb 15, 2007, 03:43 PM

When Duke Nukem: Manhattan Project came out, I had heard that was going to be the first of a new trilogy like back in the day, but the 2nd one never came out.

That was a really fun side-scroller in a 3D world. I honestly wish that they had come out with part 2 and 3. I would have enjoyed it.

SFOSOK · Feb 15, 2007, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YAYitsAndrew

Actually I follow the model very closely because I've programmed a flash game with episodic distribution in mind and our "pilot" or "demo" or whatever it's called will be released soon.

Gamasutra has tons of reading on episodic content, especially in the past two years. Google can help you find them, but here's one of particular interest.
Gamasutra.com - Why Bother With Episodic Games?

The points about the shortened feedback loop are particularly interesting to me, as a game developer.

I never claimed to be an expert on the subject, but I do know a little something about it because I'm trying to use it to put food on my table.

So you think that you can actually sell a flash game using the episodic content method without having a complete game or original first?

gl with that

YAYitsAndrew · Feb 16, 2007, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFOSOK

So you think that you can actually sell a flash game using the episodic content method without having a complete game or original first?

gl with that

Well, selling to portals is a little different than selling to people. If that creates a fanbase, then there will be downloadable episodes.

Pilot is already bought and will be appearing soon. Thanks for the well wishes.

~~DudeBoyz~~ · Feb 16, 2007, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YAYitsAndrew

Well, selling to portals is a little different than selling to people. If that creates a fanbase, then there will be downloadable episodes.

Pilot is already bought and will be appearing soon. Thanks for the well wishes.

Congrats, man! It takes some stones to put yourself out there. Glad you are making it work for you.

SFOSOK · Feb 16, 2007, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YAYitsAndrew

Well, selling to portals is a little different than selling to people. If that creates a fanbase, then there will be downloadable episodes.

Pilot is already bought and will be appearing soon. Thanks for the well wishes.

I wasn't being sarcastic btw, I do hope u do good.

Feb 10, 2007, 06:32 PM	#1
Vikingod Int'l Fish Liaison Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: By the light of lamp I sit and type... Posts: 16,197 Rep Power: 112 System Specs	Episodic gaming: Do we want it? @ CVG Source: CVG __________ This week's bombshell dropped by Valve delaying Half-Life 2: Episode Two AGAIN has kicked off renewed discussion on episodic gaming. Is it working and is it a good idea to release games in this format? Eastenders would have been canned long ago if the BBC couldn't get its epidoes out on time. It all hangs, of course, on the developer. When a major studio like Valve leaves us waiting 18 months between episodes, you'd be excused for reacting negatively to episodic gaming. But then take a look at Telltale Games with Sam & Max.

Feb 10, 2007, 06:55 PM	#2
SFOSOK 939 Goin Strong Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ontario Posts: 7,033 Rep Power: 90 System Specs	Just another way for them to fck us and take our money while we are sleeping. __________________ Warning* - Explicit Content Preceeding METAL!!

Feb 10, 2007, 07:51 PM	#3
BlueMak HH's Asteroids' Dominator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Hellas->Macedonia->Thessaloniki Posts: 13,465 Rep Power: 349 System Specs	More money for less game time. No thanks. __________________ The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm *Sic semper tyrannis.*

Feb 12, 2007, 01:53 AM	#4
OmegaRED Relapsed Gamer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ottawa , Canada Posts: 5,688 Rep Power: 173 System Specs	With Sin being cancelled this proves Episodic gaming is bad for the consumer. There's no guarantee you'll ever see the next episodes and instead just wasted money on a couple hours of play time. Give us the full game or don't give us a game at all. Half Life is the only game that could work with the episodic content because it has such a huge fanbase, all the smaller titles probably won't sell enough to warrant future episodes. __________________ E Penis Specs: <------------- See System Specs

Feb 12, 2007, 02:21 AM	#6
BlueMak HH's Asteroids' Dominator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Hellas->Macedonia->Thessaloniki Posts: 13,465 Rep Power: 349 System Specs	And Shareware is where now compared to full versions? __________________ The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm *Sic semper tyrannis.*

Feb 12, 2007, 02:10 AM	#5
~~DudeBoyz~~ banned Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,677 Rep Power: 0	But look at how the newer Sam and Max titles are going. They are on their 3rd one already, and that's great! It reminds me of the old days of shareware when they would release Part One of Commander Keen and then you could order Part 2 and Part 3 if you wanted. Same thing with Epic Pinball, Duke Nukem and those too. It worked GREAT back in the day. I guess if you know what you are doing and have a good programming staff, you can get it done the right way. Valve is just inefficient, I guess.

Feb 12, 2007, 03:51 AM	#10
coldfrontt DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: canada Posts: 248 Rep Power: 0	I agree. Episodic games really aren't a viable concept anymore. I wouldn't mind if the time between was a couple of months in between, but 18 months is way too long to wait, and then another 18 maybe for 3? I'd rather have waited longer than we did for Episode 1 and get the complete game. Sin being cancelled shows what can happen over time...absolutely nothing. Of course it can take an incredibly long time to get a complete game...DukeNukem 4ever anyone? __________________ [color=blue]TANSTAAFL![/color]

Feb 12, 2007, 04:03 AM	#11
SFOSOK 939 Goin Strong Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ontario Posts: 7,033 Rep Power: 90 System Specs	Looks like I'll be pickin up Sin on steam when it drop to under 5$ __________________ Warning - Explicit Content Preceeding METAL!!

Feb 12, 2007, 04:13 AM	#12
OmegaRED Relapsed Gamer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ottawa , Canada Posts: 5,688 Rep Power: 173 System Specs	Let's not forget Sin also had steam as its online distribution and that's by far the most successful method if they couldn't succeed that doesn't bode well for other episodic content going through less known outlets. __________________ E Penis Specs: <------------- See System Specs

Feb 12, 2007, 02:57 PM	#13
YAYitsAndrew Anti-Piracy Poster Boy Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 2,605 Rep Power: 79 System Specs	Half life isn't the only game doing episodes. Those aren't even really episodes, they're just brand new games that are short and have the word episode in the title. For real episodic content, check out the new Sam & Max series that telltale games is doing. They release a new episode every month. You can prebuy the entire season for 35 bucks and that will get you 6 episodes. So far they've taken me around 3 hours each and I loved every minute. If half life is your only experience with "episodic" content, it's time to stop talking. I think this is a really exciting way to play games and I hope sam & max does well enough to get other people to try the model in its true form. __________________ "It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters." - Mark Helprin, Digital Barbarism In other words, it's never okay to steal even if you think you have a good reason! www.yayitsandrew.com

Feb 12, 2007, 03:22 PM	#14
SFOSOK 939 Goin Strong Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ontario Posts: 7,033 Rep Power: 90 System Specs	So just because you have played one other game besides Half-life 2 Episode 1 you are an expert on the subject and all other's opinions should be ignored? I think not. __________________ Warning - Explicit Content Preceeding METAL!!

Feb 12, 2007, 08:16 PM	#17
BlueMak HH's Asteroids' Dominator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Hellas->Macedonia->Thessaloniki Posts: 13,465 Rep Power: 349 System Specs	I don't know, I used to be against Steam, but the more I use it the more I like it. Of course there is always (as in other similar systems) the chance that the company will not be there one day, and make it impossible to play the games you bought, but I hope by that time (if it happens) there will be fixes for that. I am against episodic gaming simply because I find it useless. And because you pay more for what you would pay if it was full retail version. SiN had a horrible past (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/1998/11/18, perhaps that was the reason for the less than stellar future/past of it? __________________ The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm *Sic semper tyrannis.*

Feb 12, 2007, 09:14 PM	#18
~~DudeBoyz~~ banned Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,677 Rep Power: 0	Hey, to each their own, man. I'm hatin' on steam and diggin' episodic stuff. I miss it.

Feb 15, 2007, 03:43 PM	#20
~~DudeBoyz~~ banned Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,677 Rep Power: 0	When Duke Nukem: Manhattan Project came out, I had heard that was going to be the first of a new trilogy like back in the day, but the 2nd one never came out. That was a really fun side-scroller in a 3D world. I honestly wish that they had come out with part 2 and 3. I would have enjoyed it.