MIG-31

Review: Eurogamer
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We've only just noticed this, but there hasn't been a good rally game since Rallisport Challenge 2 on the good ol' Xbox. That's pretty shocking really, especially when you consider that before that, you'd see a new off-road racing game every few months. Then again, perhaps that's precisely what killed off developer enthusiasm for the genre - as the market filled with uninspiring rally titles like Rally Fusion and Richard Burns Rally, the world just seemed to lose interest. Who better, then, to breathe new life into this ailing sub-genre than Codemasters, the guys who first showed us how well consoles and rally racing could coexist back in the early years of the PSone? And with the very same series that showed us just how exciting real rallying could be the first time around, no less. C-Mac in the house, y'all.

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Zardon

amazing looking demo, however I was extremely disappointed with the frame rates. after forza it looked like it was powered by a PS2. IGN and eurogamers both comment on the final FPS as well, so my hopes arent really that high.

Sandok

Honestly, while Forza has an amazing FPS, it looked too bland. CMR goes the other way around, gorgeous but ready to settle for 25-30fps and personally, I don't mind and the demo was quite decent frames wise for me...

Anyways, its soon out, can't wait! I'll have to get to work on it the moment my exams are over (Very soon! lol)

>GSXR<mrbusa

You should know by now that you have to take the performance of a demo with a grain of salt.
However, I have seen it go both ways. Either the demo will be optimized strictly for performance because they know it's a dog and want to try and keep the focus away from FPS. Or, they stripped so much out of the original code to be able to get the demo to function on a variety of systems that there was a hit in performance and the full release will be faster. In this case it would seem that the full release can only be faster and I hope it is theory number two because I really enjoyed playing the demo for a couple hours. I had no problems with frame rates or stuttering for some reason. It never really went below 30fps except for once or twice on the buggy level at max detail. The 160.02 beta's run it best for me.

Zardon

Yes which is why I said both IGN and eurogamers are commenting on the final game.

Zardon

You know I read that about forza but I dont agree at all. nurburgring is almost identical to the real life track as I commented on before, so I have no idea why that would be bland. Issue I have with colin mcrae is the frame rate. no point in having all that eye candy if it runs badly. If it was on the pc I would have gone into the options and knocked settings down, however on the 360 you are stuck with one setting, which I didn't like. I will reserve judgement until I play the final retail game, however I tend to trust IGN UK for their reviews, they are generally spot on. And for those of you who say there is no difference between 60fps and 25fps in a racing game then I envy you - because I obviously have something wrong with my eyes. every racing game on the 360 runs awful now compared to forza, even when I went back to PGR3 it looked juddery.

Sandok

Forza has definately spoilt us And I do trust IGN a lot but I've also read of reviews saying the game is very smooth apart from the occasional glitch. Personally, I'm ready to reserve judgement till I pay the 100 bucks required for the game. The thing is, while the frame rate isn't astronimcal, I do find it much better looking than Forza, especially when in the cockpit view with the HDR and lovely real time shadowing

As for the bland comment, I do find Forza still decent, yet somehow I'm not blown away. A good comparison is Gran Turismo HD on the PS3, which is also a simulation yet somehow has that graphical X-factor which makes it look really photorealistic and gorgeous... Or maybe I'm just too picky after that DiRT demo

Zardon

Well I take it you havent tried Gran Turismo HD on the PS3, cause i have, and the handling is terrible. Let's hope they fix that !

Sandok

It's a lot like the older GTs and while I do find it quite arcadey now (especially after GTR on PC), it's the best the PS3 has to offer (for the moment) in that particular domain.

Necrosis

Hmm I haven't tried the demo yet on 360, but it's pure butter on my PC.

BlueMak

It's even better on the 360 IMO. Especialy the "buggy" race.
I think Codemasters have a winner here.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

jp306

I loved the Dirt demo, but you need a hi end rig to run it. My e6400@3g/2gDDR2 800/X1900XT only ran it in the mid 30fps range at medium settings@1280x1024. I had to turn off AA and turn down AF to 8x, but it still looked great. I'll be getting the game as soon as it's released.

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"I told my psychiatrist that everyone hates me. He said I was being ridiculous - everyone hasn't met me yet."
Rodney Dangerfield.

Zardon

Ill probably get it on the PC myself. the 360 version is the equivalent of running the game on older hardware.

GutterPunk

I played this yesterday. I wasn't really impressed because of the frame rates. It made me frustrated. Although it looks great, I hope the fin al games has some patches or something to help the gameplay.

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>GSXR<mrbusa

I missed the word final in your sentence.
Next time highlight key words like that so people do not end up saying dumb stuff. LOL
Personally, I have not read any reviews on the full PC game yet. What I have read are a few Q/A sessions with developers. We have to remember that the Neon engine is technically next gen and brand new. From what I have read this game will never run with high FPS on any platform and was developed to be this way and openly so by developers. I think this game will be future proof for a couple of years. If the current hardware was able to run this game maxed out at 100+ fps now then next year people would be bitching that the game is old and outdated.
I do know for sure that I will be buying it and would do so even if it didn't play and look as good as it does. The multiplayer has me more concerned than the frame rates. Maybe as the new engine is developed they can add more MP game types via a patch or expansion. Mp racing games usually suck anyhow even if the game is great because of all the damn wreckers. I used to love playing GTR2 and RACE online until people got bored and started camping out at the finish line to wreck all the leaders. It ends up being really frustrating for me because of all the time it took for me to get good playing with a Xbox360 controller and competing with people that have G25 wheels and practically a full cockpit in there living room. Because of this I am more than happy to race online against the clock for awhile.

MIG-31

Each to their own....i actually prefer the 360 Demo over the PC's Demo.For some reason they are more controllable even though i use a 360 controller on the pc.

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jp306

It's a different game with a wheel and pedals...You don't need a G25, just a decent one. I use the Saitek R440(paid $50 for it) and I love it. I only just started playing racing games again recently, because I got the R440 . Once you get a Force Feedback wheel you'll never want to play a racing game with a Gamepad again.

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"I told my psychiatrist that everyone hates me. He said I was being ridiculous - everyone hasn't met me yet."
Rodney Dangerfield.

MIG-31

Thanks for that piece of info... but i don't have any interest in gaming steering wheels etc.

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Zardon

Really? you need to get one to try your favourite racing games. Even forza on the 360 is like a new game with the wireless wheel and pedals. vastly superior. You would be surprised. The 360 is really just a PC anyway, USB ports which can take steering wheels and peripherals etc. Difference is, with a PC you arent limited to a specific set of hardware, this is why the PC can be vastly superior under specific circumstances, especially frame rate/eye candy levels (if you can afford a high end pc obviously!).

MIG-31

That may be so....im aware if the differences and all that.But in realistic terms im a huge FPS fan and if you see my collection of games,on the 360 or pc most games are of that genre.Coupled with a few sports games.

If it not FPS or sports,it will be adventure ie Tomb Raider series. (awaiting aniversery to arrive)...

The only racers i have is NFS:Most wanted on the pc and NFS:Carbon for the 360.

I tried forza 2 on the 360 but thats way to much like a sim style racer for my style.If i do buy a Racer it will have to be an arcade style racer...The PG3 demo was simply crap (don't know if the final release was better).

I'm not going to spend a good £80 + on a device i won't use.

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jp306

I wouldn't spend that much either(That's like $160 right?), but you should give one a spin some time, it might change your opinion of the genre...I have a blast with mine and I never played alot of racing games before I tried my friends wheel and then got one myself.

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"I told my psychiatrist that everyone hates me. He said I was being ridiculous - everyone hasn't met me yet."
Rodney Dangerfield.

Zardon

Yes, but if you are anyway interested in racing games, you have to admit that having a steering wheel will unassuredly bring a much more immersive factor into the game. After all people drive real cars with steering wheels not pads. Equally so, I wish game makers would bring out cool new 360 degree rotational guns etc so we could play our FPS in a better style. I would love an improved wii controller for the PC. The wii's graphics suck so I find it hard to deal with.

You will love anniversary, very impressive !

Again Carbon works better with the wheel, its just natural !

PGR3 was awesome, what didn;t you like about it ? Also forza isn't that technical, it just handles quite like a real car with steering and wheelspin etc. You are probably finding it hard because you are using it with a pad, if you have variable steering and pedal control for acceleration with the wheel and pedals you will find it much easier to drive, much like a real car which goes all on feel.

Fair enough !

MIG-31

Don't get me wrong,if you're (in general) a racing Fanatic i'm sure racing wheels will give the player a more interactive feeling to the gameplay.

Same as above.Im sure it's a different feeling with a wheel.

Everyting..... whipped the opponents but every time (except for the max difficulty).The graphics and the choice of super cars is good...nothing wrong with that side of the game.

Maybe it may be because of the lack of a wheel..... but it's still not to my liking.


Im not certain for that price (can't be bothered to do a price conversion online).

But if you go through xbox live there is an official 360 wheel for $129.But argos (uk store) is selling these for £79.97 (which is probably not much difference in price) and then there is P&P costs.Even though ebay may be a little cheaper.

I appreciate you're reply but i will stick by what i first said.I just simply don't see myself using it enough to buy one.

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Zardon

Im curious, how far in did you play PGR3?

MIG-31

I did say earlier i'm only going by the 360's demo via live.If i remember it was only 1 track and a max of 3 cars to choose from (may be 2),after so many laps each bend in the track tends to be memorised.

No doubt the final game is a totally different experience.I may give the final game a shot if i can get it cheap enough from ebay.

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BlueMak

Oh man, PGR3 is such a fun racer. I think you should give it another try if you can find it at an acceptable price for you. It was my first 360 game last September and I still play it more than any other 360 game. The single player career mode is tough from Hard level. I am terrible at the cone challenge races. Never played the demo so I can't comment on it, but I find the AI in the full game good.
(I play the game with the pad)

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

Zardon

Played McRae dirt today on 360. final version. Extremely disappointed, those of you who want a pure arcade game may like it, but I don't rate the game at all. The physics are terrible, the car just glides about and the handling is poor. To make it worse, the frame rate while not ruining the game tends to bog down at times, and it must be hitting low 20s in places. The graphics are nice with some great use of HDR however it is ruined by the physics handling and the frame rate doesn't help. It feels to me that they have gone all out this time on getting as much eye candy and frivillous stuff into the game as possible, with debris, HDR, damage etc all covering up the poor handling, car physics and gameplay. Obviously a lot of you will argue and thats what the forum is all about !

I also tried it with the 360 steering wheel and I found that you had to get almost to the end of the wheel's travelling distance for the car to turn, so you end up looking like a blue haired old granny manically twisting the wheel to get the car to turn on bends (and I couldn't find any wheel sensitivity options either in the menus!), there also appears to be far less controlled drifting when compared to other McRae games so that aspect is ruined.

Also installed the PC version on vista 64 bit and just like the demo the executible crashes just as you get past the menus and go to race, tried compability mode, turning off AA etc, so its either sloppy coding or the 8800GTX/Vista, however every other major game lately has worked so im pointing to the game code.

Extremely disappointing and im sure if you perserved it might get a little better, but I have little time, patience nor the will to battle with a game.

At least Call of Juarez on the 360 seems entertaining.

BlueMak

Zardon, I don't know much about Vista, but is it wise to use Vista 64bit for games? From what I understand just having Vista is bad enough, but 64bit?

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

Necrosis

I experienced this as well, good to know I wasn't the only one.

Zardon

I have a system I need to run on Vista 64 bit, and it's not primarily geared towards gaming, even though it has a 8800GTX in it. the system has 12 gig of ram which is part of the reason.

I think you need to try vista for gaming rather than quoting misinformation it really is the only way to educate yourself, I would say 95% of games work now without problems, with 64bit being 5-10% lower. which is still pretty good considering the time it has been released.

I can't narrow the issue with Dirt on the PC mainly because I can't be bothered devoting a lot of time to it, but when 4 new games this month have all worked and about 20 games via steam all work, you would think it would point to the game code and the developers not being bothered to test it thoroughly on the present MS OS. Whether people like Vista or not is irrevelant, Windows XP is on the way out, its just the way things work.