Trying to get this old card to work...

shivansps · Feb 22, 2007, 07:38 PM

Hi, I have an SB Live! Value OEM, the card says the model i CT4830, the chip is the EMU10K1-NEF.

I cant get it to work on windows 2k or XP... in Win 9x works well with the CDs drivers, but in windows XP, the Windows installs is own drivers, without errors or problems, but the card dont work, the drivers hangs when they try to reproduce any sound.

So I try with the Creative Drivers... i cant get to install any of then, i get the "Setup caould not detect any Sound Blaster card on your system".

I also try with the LiveDrvUni-Pack and the fix and manual install to add compatibility, but is the same thing...

So, a friend recomend me the KX drivers, I installed then, the KX drivers says is a EMU10K1-CT4832...

But happens the same thing that with the Windows drivers, it simply dont work out...

But the card works well in WIN 9x with CD drivers, the CD have drivers for win 95, 98 and NT...

I heart that there are some "especials versions" of the Value OEM, supplied by DELL, who have an special EMU10, who dont work with Creative drivers and anything else...

I need help with this strange card... i could upload the CD drivers so the KX staff could look them, if they need to.

shivansps · Feb 22, 2007, 09:10 PM

Here are the CD drivers...

sblivecddrivers.zip - FileFront.com

Maddogg6 · Feb 22, 2007, 09:23 PM

yeah - It seem the OEM models have been a known issue for some time - I wouldn't get my hopes up too high... but who knows...

Russ · Feb 22, 2007, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shivansps

So I try with the Creative Drivers... i cant get to install any of then, i get the "Setup caould not detect any Sound Blaster card on your system".

I am not sure if/why this would effect the kX driver, but I gotta tell you that I got that same error the first time I tried to install the CL drivers (from the CD) for my Live! 5.1 card when I first bought it (on Windows XP).

I could manually install the drivers, but then some things would not work correctly, and the Creative Diagnostics would show errors. Nothing I tried seemed to fix it (and BTW: The LiveDrvUni-Pack, as well as all the drivers on the CL website were not compatible with my (non-OEM) model).

Eventually, I discovered the Creative Driver Update Utility (CTZAPXX.exe) on the CD, and used it to remove the drivers (BTW: the program can take a while (almost seems to hang)), and then I was able to install the driver normally, and it worked.

I kind of guessed that maybe some files left over from my AWE-64 was causing problems, but I was never sure what the problem was.

BTW: I had not tried the kX driver at that time, so I do not know if whatever was causing that problem, might also effect kX. In any case, your situation is a little different (different model, etc) but, you might try and locate that file on your CD (if it is there), and see if it works for you.

shivansps · Feb 22, 2007, 11:57 PM

I will look for it...

anyway, i just discover other thing... is posible that all of this are caused by Windows than the drivers? because for some strange reason, the first time that i plug the card, Windows says: "New Hardware Found-> VGA Device", and then update the info to the Windows own Sound Blaster Live, Valor, drivers...

Russ · Feb 23, 2007, 12:00 AM

Hmm, that seems odd (are you sure that it said "VGA Device" and not "Multimedia Device"?), maybe an IRQ conflict..., but yes, a problem with Windows could also cause similar problems.

See the following thread:
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/general-discussion/129844-cant-install-kx-driver.html

Doug W · Feb 23, 2007, 12:02 AM

This is the same number that is on the chip of my CT4830 (EMU10K1-NEF). It worked fine for me.

Perhaps you should try completely uninstalling whatever is installed now, whether it is kX or Creatives and try to install kX version 3534f.

Download 3534f from TravelRec's site:
kX-project support site by TravelRec.
click: kX-Drivers
click: Version 3534f - full, current stable (EXE)

If some version of kX is already installed, go to

Start->Programs->kX Audio Driver->Uninstall kX Audio Driver

Shut down, remove your card and reboot.

Do a Search on the C: drive for *.inf files

Open those files with notepad to see if they are Creative Labs SoundBlaster Live INF files or INF files for the kX drivers. Delete the ones that are INF files for kX or Creative SBLive drivers.

Shutdown again and put your card back in.

When you reboot, install 3534f and if all goes well, you will be instructed to reboot once or twice and maybe...

If it works, you can download and install ProFX and UFX but wait and see what happens with 3534f.

Let us know either way.

shivansps · Feb 23, 2007, 02:00 AM

nothing :S

And i also try the same with drivercleaner...

The funny thing is that in the same pc, and in the same PCI Slot, if i install win 98 and use the cd drivers the card works well, haha.

And yes, it say "VGA Device", and then windows installs they SB Live Drivers.

I try in 3 diferent pcs, with diferent motherboards, and is the same thing...

BTW, there is a jumper in the card... any ideas of what is that for?

Hell i need to make this work or i will be forced to buy another card, because my onboard sound is dead. And i have a Aureal AU8810A1 in my old pc, but i lack the WINXP drivers to use it haha... it only work if i install the XP with the card plugged in...

The Audigy SE have any problems?

JGSF · Feb 23, 2007, 02:03 AM

Have you tried forcing the driver installation (update driver in "hardware devices" and pointing to the kx *.inf)?

shivansps · Feb 23, 2007, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny1982

Have you tried forcing the driver installation (update driver in "hardware devices" and pointing to the kx *.inf)?

Yeah i been doing that too, trying with diferents models to see if i found one thats works... but i didt not test all yet.

EDIT: I found this in the CD win 95 infs files...

in CTOM10K1.inf

Quote:

; a. CT4830 - SBLive! Value (PCI\VEN_1102&DEV_0002&SUBSYS_80261102)
; a. CT4832 - SBLive! Value (PCI\VEN_1102&DEV_0002&SUBSYS_80271102)

in CTGTM10K1.inf

Quote:

; a. CT4831 - SBLive! Value (PCI\VEN_1102&DEV_0002&SUBSYS_80311102)

But im not sure of what is used, because all have the same name...

EDIT: There is any program that test a sound card in windows? without using drivers? i starting to think that is windows XP who is "blocking" in some way the card...

Russ · Feb 23, 2007, 05:13 AM

I do not know, if it will not work in 3 different PC's, using the drivers from the CD that came with the card (or any other XP drivers for that matter), it does not leave a lot of room for troubleshooting.

shivansps · Feb 23, 2007, 06:52 AM

Using the drivers from the CDs work well, but the CD only have drivers for win 9x and NT... the NT ones does not work on XP... but i never tried on NT...

Russ · Feb 23, 2007, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shivansps

Using the drivers from the CDs work well, but the CD only have drivers for win 9x and NT... the NT ones does not work on XP... but i never tried on NT...

Sorry, I missed that point.

Did you try the LiveDrvUni-Pack on the other computers?

Try the LiveDrvUni-Pack again, only this time extract it to a folder, and try using use the CTZAPXX.exe from that (instead of the one from your CD) to install the driver.

Tril · Feb 23, 2007, 09:03 AM

What do you mean when you say it simple does not work with the kX drivers? Do you mean that the drivers install but you get no sound?

Swap front and rear is on by default when you install the drivers. Uncheck it to get sound on the front output of the card when playing stereo audio.

Russ · Feb 23, 2007, 09:16 AM

I was under the impression that it was hanging on him, but that is a very good point

.

jasonh77tw · Feb 23, 2007, 01:07 PM

I have about 10 CT4830s with 4 or 5 combinations of different AC97 & I2S codec, they all work fine with kx, I think kx has nothing to do with your problem

Max M. · Feb 23, 2007, 01:33 PM

>are you sure that it said "VGA Device" and not "Multimedia Device"

for me it looks like eeprom corruption. although, typically, failed eeprom just changes card's id only (a fall back to default/dummy id) - i also heard of cases when device reports itself as "i'm not a sound card, sorry"... but still i would suggest to check this card in other pci slot and other pc.

Russ · Feb 23, 2007, 02:04 PM

I thought that seemed odd, but I was thinking more along the lines of an IRQ conflict with a video card causing it to re-detect both. But I think Max M. is probably correct. Take a look at the following thread:

VGA compatible SB Live! Is there a hope for my card?

shivansps · Feb 23, 2007, 02:06 PM

yeah, it could be, the card it simply dead in XP, the drivers installs OK, but no sound...

and with the unipack... well the only way is do a manual install, and they dont work i tryied with CTZAPPX.EXE, and the setuo inist in the "you dont have a sound blaster card"...

as i say, i try on 3 pcs in diferrent slots, and is the same thing... and yes on all of then and reported as "VGA device" in the begining, well i think is like Max says... a EEPRON corruption... but with that is still possible for the card to work on Windows 9x? because is still working on 9x... but only with cd drivers...

EDIT: oh i never tell it, sorry, some years ago, back in 2002 (i buy the card in 2000), the card worked on Windows 2000 and XP, with the default windows drivers, the sound card was the only thing that work without do anything just after windows install over, but some day, without a reason, the card stop working on XP and I never get to work again, but thats it, EEPRON corruption... but there is not a way to use the card anyway? maybe a wy to reflash the EEPROM or modify the drivers to can use a diferrent ID?

in from Argentina and is not so easy to buy hardware haha, icant effort a Audigy SE at the moment...

Russ · Feb 23, 2007, 02:20 PM

Maybe the following website will be useful to you:
Repairing an Audigy sound card with a corrupt 93C46 EEPROMchip

As you can see, it is for an Audigy, but maybe you can find the info somewhere to do the similar with your card (or at least check the eeprom).

BTW: Also see the links in the other thread.

shivansps · Feb 23, 2007, 02:51 PM

My subsystem ID is 8027, and even there is detected as "VGA Compatible" LOL!

http://i17.tinypic.com/4gnh6iq.jpg

But wait, in the KX inf files, say that is the correct Susbsystem ID for my card... so why is detected as a VGA device then?

I will post about that in the creative forums and see what happends :P

Oh i see, that Audigy say Sub class: 04, and the mine says Sub class 00...

shivansps · Feb 23, 2007, 06:08 PM

mm you eleminate your msg russ?

Well I think i could make the EEPROM programing, but i dont have the correct bin file :SSS

Russ · Feb 23, 2007, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shivansps

mm you eleminate your msg russ?

Well I think i could make the EEPROM programing, but i dont have the correct bin file :SSS

I did not see your edit until after I replied, and then noticed that you had allready figured it what I was saying (so I deleted it).

As for the .bin, it seems that you should be able to use the EEPROM program to first read your EEPROM and dump it to a file, then edit that one byte in a hex editor, and write it back (but I am no expert, and the bin files included with the program do not look like a straight dump, so I do not know (maybe contact the people from that website for more info)).

But, before risking damaging your card (desoldering/resoldering the chip, etc), I would try and verify that there is no other way to get it working. I would think that it would still work with kX, but I cannot be sure.

shivansps · Feb 24, 2007, 02:53 PM

I open to any suggestion to get it working, but if i have to program the EEPROM i will do it, i have nothing to lose, the card ist working anyway... :P

But i think it should work anyway, in Win 9X works... that mean, Win 2k and XP blocks the playing sound on a "VGA detected device", even if she have a sound driver installed.

Russ · Feb 24, 2007, 03:06 PM

I understand, but it seems that thus far (with the exception of Tril's reply) we really haven't done any troubleshooting with kX.

Other people have used kX successfully with a corrupted eeprom (although in that case it was the Subsystem ID, I believe).

What things did you try when you installed kX?
What is your speaker setup?

shivansps · Feb 24, 2007, 03:18 PM

Well i try everything, is not gona work by its own, that for sure ...

And is not the speakers config, in very sure of that too...

Russ · Feb 24, 2007, 03:33 PM

Yeah, I do not understand the Win9x thing... Maybe it is something with VXD drivers -vs- WDM drivers (but who knows, I am just guessing).

BTW: What version of kX did you install?
Is kX currently installed?
It did install ok, but you did not get any sound, right?
Was the kX icon in the system tray?

I'd be curious to know if you saw any signal on the peak plugin in the DSP when playing audio.

I cannot say for sure that we could get kX working, so if you are confident with your soldering skills, maybe the eeprom thing is the way to go, but we cannot be absolutley sure that is the only problem (but then again, it seems that you have nothing to lose by trying it either).

shivansps · Feb 25, 2007, 07:38 PM

I have removed the 93C46S EEPROM chip from the card, i will start working on in today, whish me luck :P

Doug W · Feb 25, 2007, 08:13 PM

Quote:

I have removed the 93C46S EEPROM chip from the card

Good Luck

shivansps · Feb 25, 2007, 10:20 PM

So far, so good, i use the eeprom program and i save the EEPROM info from the chip intro a bin file, now i looking for a program to edit it, but i have a bad feeling about the bin file, i use the notepad to open it, and it looks corrupted... it looks too diferent from the bin files of the audigy classes incluided in the eeprom program when i look it with the notepad..

Feb 22, 2007, 07:38 PM	#1
shivansps DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	Trying to get this old card to work... Hi, I have an SB Live! Value OEM, the card says the model i CT4830, the chip is the EMU10K1-NEF. I cant get it to work on windows 2k or XP... in Win 9x works well with the CDs drivers, but in windows XP, the Windows installs is own drivers, without errors or problems, but the card dont work, the drivers hangs when they try to reproduce any sound. So I try with the Creative Drivers... i cant get to install any of then, i get the "Setup caould not detect any Sound Blaster card on your system". I also try with the LiveDrvUni-Pack and the fix and manual install to add compatibility, but is the same thing... So, a friend recomend me the KX drivers, I installed then, the KX drivers says is a EMU10K1-CT4832... But happens the same thing that with the Windows drivers, it simply dont work out... But the card works well in WIN 9x with CD drivers, the CD have drivers for win 95, 98 and NT... I heart that there are some "especials versions" of the Value OEM, supplied by DELL, who have an special EMU10, who dont work with Creative drivers and anything else... I need help with this strange card... i could upload the CD drivers so the KX staff could look them, if they need to.

Feb 23, 2007, 02:06 PM	Thread Starter #19
shivansps DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	yeah, it could be, the card it simply dead in XP, the drivers installs OK, but no sound... and with the unipack... well the only way is do a manual install, and they dont work i tryied with CTZAPPX.EXE, and the setuo inist in the "you dont have a sound blaster card"... as i say, i try on 3 pcs in diferrent slots, and is the same thing... and yes on all of then and reported as "VGA device" in the begining, well i think is like Max says... a EEPRON corruption... but with that is still possible for the card to work on Windows 9x? because is still working on 9x... but only with cd drivers... EDIT: oh i never tell it, sorry, some years ago, back in 2002 (i buy the card in 2000), the card worked on Windows 2000 and XP, with the default windows drivers, the sound card was the only thing that work without do anything just after windows install over, but some day, without a reason, the card stop working on XP and I never get to work again, but thats it, EEPRON corruption... but there is not a way to use the card anyway? maybe a wy to reflash the EEPROM or modify the drivers to can use a diferrent ID? in from Argentina and is not so easy to buy hardware haha, icant effort a Audigy SE at the moment... Last edited by shivansps; Feb 23, 2007 at 02:15 PM.

Feb 23, 2007, 02:51 PM	Thread Starter #21
shivansps DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	My subsystem ID is 8027, and even there is detected as "VGA Compatible" LOL! http://i17.tinypic.com/4gnh6iq.jpg But wait, in the KX inf files, say that is the correct Susbsystem ID for my card... so why is detected as a VGA device then? I will post about that in the creative forums and see what happends :P Oh i see, that Audigy say Sub class: 04, and the mine says Sub class 00... Last edited by shivansps; Feb 23, 2007 at 03:38 PM.

Feb 24, 2007, 02:53 PM	Thread Starter #24
shivansps DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	I open to any suggestion to get it working, but if i have to program the EEPROM i will do it, i have nothing to lose, the card ist working anyway... :P But i think it should work anyway, in Win 9X works... that mean, Win 2k and XP blocks the playing sound on a "VGA detected device", even if she have a sound driver installed. Last edited by shivansps; Feb 24, 2007 at 03:03 PM.

Feb 22, 2007, 09:10 PM	Thread Starter #2
shivansps DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	Here are the CD drivers... sblivecddrivers.zip - FileFront.com

Feb 22, 2007, 09:23 PM	#3
Maddogg6 Tail Razer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bernyurass, AZ - USA Posts: 4,027 Rep Power: 0	yeah - It seem the OEM models have been a known issue for some time - I wouldn't get my hopes up too high... but who knows...

Feb 22, 2007, 11:57 PM	Thread Starter #5
shivansps DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	I will look for it... anyway, i just discover other thing... is posible that all of this are caused by Windows than the drivers? because for some strange reason, the first time that i plug the card, Windows says: "New Hardware Found-> VGA Device", and then update the info to the Windows own Sound Blaster Live, Valor, drivers...

Feb 23, 2007, 12:00 AM	#6
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,563 Rep Power: 62	Hmm, that seems odd (are you sure that it said "VGA Device" and not "Multimedia Device"?), maybe an IRQ conflict..., but yes, a problem with Windows could also cause similar problems. See the following thread: http://www.hardwareheaven.com/general-discussion/129844-cant-install-kx-driver.html

Feb 23, 2007, 12:02 AM	#7
Doug W HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Montevideo, MN USA Posts: 973 Rep Power: 0	This is the same number that is on the chip of my CT4830 (EMU10K1-NEF). It worked fine for me. Perhaps you should try completely uninstalling whatever is installed now, whether it is kX or Creatives and try to install kX version 3534f. Download 3534f from TravelRec's site: kX-project support site by TravelRec. click: kX-Drivers click: Version 3534f - full, current stable (EXE) If some version of kX is already installed, go to Start->Programs->kX Audio Driver->Uninstall kX Audio Driver Shut down, remove your card and reboot. Do a Search on the C: drive for *.inf files Open those files with notepad to see if they are Creative Labs SoundBlaster Live INF files or INF files for the kX drivers. Delete the ones that are INF files for kX or Creative SBLive drivers. Shutdown again and put your card back in. When you reboot, install 3534f and if all goes well, you will be instructed to reboot once or twice and maybe... If it works, you can download and install ProFX and UFX but wait and see what happens with 3534f. Let us know either way.

Feb 23, 2007, 02:00 AM	Thread Starter #8
shivansps DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	nothing :S And i also try the same with drivercleaner... The funny thing is that in the same pc, and in the same PCI Slot, if i install win 98 and use the cd drivers the card works well, haha. And yes, it say "VGA Device", and then windows installs they SB Live Drivers. I try in 3 diferent pcs, with diferent motherboards, and is the same thing... BTW, there is a jumper in the card... any ideas of what is that for? Hell i need to make this work or i will be forced to buy another card, because my onboard sound is dead. And i have a Aureal AU8810A1 in my old pc, but i lack the WINXP drivers to use it haha... it only work if i install the XP with the card plugged in... The Audigy SE have any problems?

Feb 23, 2007, 02:03 AM	#9
JGSF HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 452 Rep Power: 0	Have you tried forcing the driver installation (update driver in "hardware devices" and pointing to the kx *.inf)?

Feb 23, 2007, 05:13 AM	#11
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,563 Rep Power: 62	I do not know, if it will not work in 3 different PC's, using the drivers from the CD that came with the card (or any other XP drivers for that matter), it does not leave a lot of room for troubleshooting.

Feb 23, 2007, 06:52 AM	Thread Starter #12
shivansps DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	Using the drivers from the CDs work well, but the CD only have drivers for win 9x and NT... the NT ones does not work on XP... but i never tried on NT...

Feb 23, 2007, 09:03 AM	#14
Tril S-3D enthusiast Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,676 Rep Power: 64 System Specs	What do you mean when you say it simple does not work with the kX drivers? Do you mean that the drivers install but you get no sound? Swap front and rear is on by default when you install the drivers. Uncheck it to get sound on the front output of the card when playing stereo audio.

Feb 23, 2007, 09:16 AM	#15
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,563 Rep Power: 62	I was under the impression that it was hanging on him, but that is a very good point .

Feb 23, 2007, 01:07 PM	#16
jasonh77tw HardwareHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 12 Rep Power: 0	I have about 10 CT4830s with 4 or 5 combinations of different AC97 & I2S codec, they all work fine with kx, I think kx has nothing to do with your problem

Feb 23, 2007, 01:33 PM	#17
Max M. h/h member-shmember Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Evil Empire Posts: 2,639 Rep Power: 69	>are you sure that it said "VGA Device" and not "Multimedia Device" for me it looks like eeprom corruption. although, typically, failed eeprom just changes card's id only (a fall back to default/dummy id) - i also heard of cases when device reports itself as "i'm not a sound card, sorry"... but still i would suggest to check this card in other pci slot and other pc.

Feb 23, 2007, 02:04 PM	#18
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,563 Rep Power: 62	I thought that seemed odd, but I was thinking more along the lines of an IRQ conflict with a video card causing it to re-detect both. But I think Max M. is probably correct. Take a look at the following thread: VGA compatible SB Live! Is there a hope for my card?

Feb 23, 2007, 02:20 PM	#20
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,563 Rep Power: 62	Maybe the following website will be useful to you: Repairing an Audigy sound card with a corrupt 93C46 EEPROMchip As you can see, it is for an Audigy, but maybe you can find the info somewhere to do the similar with your card (or at least check the eeprom). BTW: Also see the links in the other thread.

Feb 23, 2007, 06:08 PM	Thread Starter #22
shivansps DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	mm you eleminate your msg russ? Well I think i could make the EEPROM programing, but i dont have the correct bin file :SSS

Feb 24, 2007, 03:06 PM	#25
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,563 Rep Power: 62	I understand, but it seems that thus far (with the exception of Tril's reply) we really haven't done any troubleshooting with kX. Other people have used kX successfully with a corrupted eeprom (although in that case it was the Subsystem ID, I believe). What things did you try when you installed kX? What is your speaker setup?

Feb 24, 2007, 03:18 PM	Thread Starter #26
shivansps DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	Well i try everything, is not gona work by its own, that for sure ... And is not the speakers config, in very sure of that too...

Feb 24, 2007, 03:33 PM	#27
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,563 Rep Power: 62	Yeah, I do not understand the Win9x thing... Maybe it is something with VXD drivers -vs- WDM drivers (but who knows, I am just guessing). BTW: What version of kX did you install? Is kX currently installed? It did install ok, but you did not get any sound, right? Was the kX icon in the system tray? I'd be curious to know if you saw any signal on the peak plugin in the DSP when playing audio. I cannot say for sure that we could get kX working, so if you are confident with your soldering skills, maybe the eeprom thing is the way to go, but we cannot be absolutley sure that is the only problem (but then again, it seems that you have nothing to lose by trying it either).

Feb 25, 2007, 07:38 PM	Thread Starter #28
shivansps DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	I have removed the 93C46S EEPROM chip from the card, i will start working on in today, whish me luck :P

Feb 25, 2007, 10:20 PM	Thread Starter #30
shivansps DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	So far, so good, i use the eeprom program and i save the EEPROM info from the chip intro a bin file, now i looking for a program to edit it, but i have a bad feeling about the bin file, i use the notepad to open it, and it looks corrupted... it looks too diferent from the bin files of the audigy classes incluided in the eeprom program when i look it with the notepad..