DSP Private Exchange

Slippers · Jun 10, 2007, 01:57 AM

HoWdY!!

Is there any way I could send some kind and knowledgeble person my DSP setup so that they could point out and maybe help me fix the errors, please?

The DSP Exchange allows me to download, but not upload.

I've been working with these DSP's for weeks now with very limited success.

I've downloaded all the presets on the preset exchange site and they were wrong for my card or didn't do what I need the DSP to do.

Thankx in advance for you help.
Dennis

Maddogg6 · Jun 10, 2007, 07:46 AM

If you explain your needs here - would be best - looking at your DSP prolly wont do much to explain your needs.
and of course....

'feed a man fish, and he eats for a day, but teach him to fish... '

Russ · Jun 10, 2007, 03:39 PM

You can always post a screenshot (use a free image hosting site or whatever to host the image, and then just post the link here), but as MD6 stated, we cannot help you fix the errors without knowing what it is (specifically) that you want it to do (and in what way(s) it does not do what you want, etc).

Slippers · Jun 10, 2007, 05:43 PM

HoWdY!! Ok .. thankx for the replies folks!

What I want to do is to play midi music out through speakers and headphones while recording audio in from a small mixer board without recording the midi going out as well.

SB Live! 5.1 - SB0220

Digital Out- (1/8" orange jack) --> computer powered speakers
Rear Out- (1/8" black jack) --> rear speakers --> power amp
Line In- (1/8" blue jack) --> Mixer Board (XLR mic)
Front Out- (1/8" green jack) --> empty
Mic In- (1/8" red jack) --> empty

I want to be able to use the soundfonts for the midi.

You can click on the JPG of the DSP that I have tried to design that isn't working.
You can also download the DMR_Record.kx file, too.

I'm sure I've just connected the wrong line somewhere or am missing something that is needed.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/7/...corder_DSP.JPG

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/7/.../DMR_Record.kx

Thankx !
Dennis

Russ · Jun 10, 2007, 07:37 PM

That looks like an older config that is not going to work with newer kX and ProFx versions.

Line In should use the ProFx:ADC plugin (use ADC for all AC97 sources with newer ProFX).
MIDI should be a ProFx:SRC plugin set to FxBus 2/3.

I am not sure (from your description) what the purpose of the plugin labeled "Wave" is here (probably so you can hear what you recorded, but you did not mention what you wanted to do there).

I cannot see how you have MX6 configured, so I am not sure which audio source is being routed to ASIO for recording, and which one is routed to the speakers. From your description, you should have it setup such that MIDI is sent to the speakers, and Line In is sent to ASIO, but I cannot verify it is configured that way. If you do not need to mix multiple audio sources, or use the sends, then a mixer such as MX6 is probably unnecessary (and maybe just adding complication/confusion).

Surrounder is probably not necessary since you do not appear to be doing any upmixing or downmixing.

Try to keep your configs as simple as possible until you understand the DSP.

You did not mention anything about monitoring the audio from Line In, so I am not sure what your intention is as far as that goes.

BTW: You did not mention what is/isn't working...

Slippers · Jun 10, 2007, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

That looks like an older config that is not going to work with newer kX and ProFx versions.

OK .. I guess I have the older stuff mixed in with the newest ProFX stuff ... I downloaded the new version .. did the old stuff stick around?

Should I completley delete the old drivers and plugins and just use the newest stuff?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

Line In should use the ProFx:ADC plugin (use ADC for all AC97 sources with newer ProFX).
MIDI should be a ProFx:SRC plugin set to FxBus 2/3.

OK ... I looked for those and I don't have them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

I am not sure (from your description) what the purpose of the plugin labeled "Wave" is here (probably so you can hear what you recorded, but you did not mention what you wanted to do there).

I just labelled it WAVE because I wanted to hear audio out.
I wanted to hear the midi so that I could sing and play sax to it. Also, I would like to take the midi AND the new vocal audio track and record a harmony to it so I need to hear it playing but only record the second track alone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

I cannot see how you have MX6 configured, so I am not sure which audio source is being routed to ASIO for recording, and which one is routed to the speakers.

I want the LINE IN recorded and the midi soundfonts routed to the speakers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

From your description, you should have it setup such that MIDI is sent to the speakers, and Line In is sent to ASIO, but I cannot verify it is configured that way.

Yes .. this is what I want to do ... andmaybe monitor the audio being reorded at the same time too. If possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

If you do not need to mix multiple audio sources, or use the sends, then a mixer such as MX6 is probably unnecessary (and maybe just adding complication/confusion).
Surrounder is probably not necessary since you do not appear to be doing any upmixing or downmixing.

Right now I just need one XLR mic into my mixer to LINE IN recording.
Maybe in the future I will need more, but this will suffice for now.
So, you have told me what I DON'T need ... what DO I need to acheive the above basic setup?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

Try to keep your configs as simple as possible until you understand the DSP.

Right. This is what I was trying to do. Keep It Simple.
Unfortuneately, that didn't work!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

You did not mention anything about monitoring the audio from Line In, so I am not sure what your intention is as far as that goes.

Yes I would like to be able to hear what was being recorded if possible too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

BTW: You did not mention what is/isn't working...

[/quote]

Well ... I hooked a signal generator to the MX6 and it screamed right through speakers ... there was no levels for recording and/or volume controls, effects, etc. so it was shoing that there was input getting through because of levels jumping in the analyzer ... but no sound at the speakers.

Are we getting close to a solution to these probs yet?

Maddogg6 · Jun 10, 2007, 11:02 PM

This is all stock plugins.
http://img341.imageshack.us/my.php?i...monitordl5.jpg

I put some notes on there to help understand what I did..
Note you also need to select what AC97 source (physical input -'Line IN') is sent on the prolog pins in the kXMixer AC97 page.
Also note - kX synths will only be dry - no reverb or Chorus. Those are sent on FXBuss line 13 & 14 and would need to be mixed in with the 'monitor buss'.

I highly recommend getting ProFX plugin updated. here
http://members.home.nl/nahutec/ProFx/profx3x.htm
The version for all 3538 is what you need - assuming you are using the latest version of kX (V 3538M).

It has an installer - and requires no extra effort (no need to uninstall anything - unless your current install is hosed - but assuming a fresh kX install - nothing else is needed to install this ProFX update)

Once you have that installed - I can do a similar with ProFX (and even have kX Synths Reverb & Chorus mixed in too). But I hope you spend some time getting to understand what is happening here first - it will help later too.

Slippers · Jun 11, 2007, 12:36 AM

HoWdY!!

Great Stuff MadDog!

Ihave that ProFX already downloaded and installed.

I think that this has been a problem I was having was that I mixed up the old plugins with the new plugins. I'm thinking that a lot of them don't like each other.

I see on that DSP you sent me that it was the old versions of the KX plugins that you used. I understand better now how things are connected through that much better now.
If it wouldn't be too much of a pain, I think I would rather save the SB's precious resources by using the ProFX plugins.
I appreciate your help and your one little diagram answered a thousand questions and made things much more clear!
I tried using that ADC plugin as Russ suggested but it didn't work.
There was a yellow exclamation mark on my taskbar in the open kxmixer box that showed that it wasn't working right.

I am using ProFX V3.08.8 and KX V3538M

I'm thinking with all the Soundfonts and changes and everything that it might be a good idea to uninstall the drivers and then do a totally clean install.

I'll give your ideas a go and let you know how it worked.

Thankx
Dennis

Maddogg6 · Jun 11, 2007, 12:50 AM

Quote:

There was a yellow exclamation mark on my taskbar in the open kxmixer box that showed that it wasn't working right.

Thats a problem... one I don't understand -
Please post info in the kX 'ABOUT' screen.
and - theres 'a yellow exclamation mark on my taskbar' - please expand on this...

Russ · Jun 11, 2007, 12:53 AM

I do not think that the problem is from different versions of ProFx, but rather (it seems) that you built your config from a preset (from the Preset Exchange site) that used the older ProFx, so the settings were not compatible.

From your reply, I get the feeling that you do not understand how to adjust the settings of a plugin (which is a good reason why you cannot get it working). To access a plugins tweak window (for those plugins that have adjustable settings), double click on the plugin (or right click and choose "tweak" from the menu).

Also, (as I stated in another one of your threads) if you plan on recording using ASIO, you need to figure out the ASIO mapping for your card.

As for the yellow exclamation mark, I have never seen this, so I am not sure what it could be....

Maddogg6 · Jun 11, 2007, 01:15 AM

Heres one with ProFX
http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/1...diprofxyq0.jpg

Maddogg6 · Jun 11, 2007, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Also, (as I stated in another one of your threads) if you plan on recording using ASIO, you need to figure out the ASIO mapping for your card.

Yes - this would explain why you can 'monitor' but not record...

Maddogg6 · Jun 11, 2007, 05:53 PM

Additionally - you could drag From the REC OUT of MX6 to all the other ASIO (record buss) lines - and *should* eliminate any ASIO mapping issues, as you should get the input on all ASIO lines anyway - unless Russ knows otherwise (I dont have the mapping problem, so I cant know for certain)

Russ · Jun 11, 2007, 06:43 PM

That should work, but he might as well figure out the mapping (it is not exactly hard to do), as in the future he may want to record multiple tracks, etc.

Also, for stereo recording, some channels may not match up (left/right) correctly in the host software (i.e. some software only allows you to enable consecutive pairs of inputs for stereo, and ASIO 1/2 is not available (which would make ASIO 0/1 and ASIO 2/3 not usable for stereo recording in such software)).

BTW: The above ASIO numbering refers to how it appears on epilog.

Slippers · Jun 25, 2007, 07:59 AM

HoWdY!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

That should work, but he might as well figure out the mapping (it is not exactly hard to do), as in the future he may want to record multiple tracks, etc.

Ok .. what do you mean exactly by "figure out the mapping" ?
As it works out I am trying to record multiple tracks and I am guessing that this is what I need to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

Also, for stereo recording, some channels may not match up (left/right) correctly in the host software (i.e. some software only allows you to enable consecutive pairs of inputs for stereo, and ASIO 1/2 is not available (which would make ASIO 0/1 and ASIO 2/3 not usable for stereo recording in such software)).

This is also good. I think. You say that ASIO 1/2 is not available. Where? On the card? In the software? In the DSP setup? I'm confused!
I am using Sonar Producer Edition 6.
How will I know if the settings in Sonar match the ones in kX? How will I know what to change? What should the DSP look like? Is it different for recording than for playback?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

BTW: The above ASIO numbering refers to how it appears on epilog.

OK thankx. How do they appear in the ProFX ones?
Is there any difference? What are the differences?

I guess I just need more pictures and less words.

Thankx for your help.

Russ · Jun 25, 2007, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slippers

Ok .. what do you mean exactly by "figure out the mapping" ?

This is explained in the 'How to setup Cubase SX with KX' guide by Lex Nahumury in the section 'The ASIO "mapping issue"'.

Basically the idea is to connect the Wave Generator plugin to the ASIO (DSP) outputs one at at time, and see which ASIO (software) input the signal appears at, and thus map them. See the guide for more info (although it is for Cubase the idea is the same for any software).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slippers

This is also good. I think. You say that ASIO 1/2 is not available. Where? On the card? In the software? In the DSP setup?

kX offers up tp 16 inputs and outputs.
On 5.1 cards, 2 inputs (software inputs) are not available (there is an issue with these inputs, and the center/lfe channels on the soundcard), which may cause the numbering to shift (usually if they are off, they are off by 2). They correspond to the pins labeled asio1 and asio2 on epilog (the pins are not connected to anything inside epilog, thus not available for use in the software (the software will still list them, but you will not be able to get a signal from them)).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slippers

How will I know if the settings in Sonar match the ones in kX? How will I know what to change? What should the DSP look like? Is it different for recording than for playback?

Do the mapping... It only effects ASIO recording. Again, see the guide, once you figure out the mapping, it should make more sense,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slippers

OK thankx. How do they appear in the ProFX ones?
Is there any difference? What are the differences?

ProFx leaves the missing ones out all together (note that there are no pins for asio3 and asio4), and labels the pins differently then epilog does, so the mapping will be different for ProFx:ASIO and for epilog.

You might also take a look at the following:
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/asio/701...tml#post568654

It shows the mapping for my card (at the time of that post) with a couple of programs, and should give you an idea of how the numbering can be off (thus the mapping issue), and how the numbering differs when using epilog or ProFx:ASIO.

Slippers · Jun 26, 2007, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

This is explained in the 'How to setup Cubase SX with KX' guide by Lex Nahumury in the section 'The ASIO "mapping issue"'.

Thankx .. I read that several times and I couldn't bridge SX with Sonar and figure it out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

Basically the idea is to connect the Wave Generator plugin to the ASIO (DSP) outputs one at at time, and see which ASIO (software) input the signal appears at, and thus map them. See the guide for more info (although it is for Cubase the idea is the same for any software).

Ya .. I tried that and suddenly when I connected something it started sqeeling horribly and I was expecting smoke to come billowing out through the computer and see the cones of my speakers go flying accross the room!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

kX offers up tp 16 inputs and outputs.
On 5.1 cards, 2 inputs (software inputs) are not available (there is an issue with these inputs, and the center/lfe channels on the soundcard), which may cause the numbering to shift (usually if they are off, they are off by 2). They correspond to the pins labeled asio1 and asio2 on epilog (the pins are not connected to anything inside epilog, thus not available for use in the software (the software will still list them, but you will not be able to get a signal from them)).

Ok ... this is making sense now. No WONDER I couldn't get things working right in my DSP with Sonar! THANKX!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

ProFx leaves the missing ones out all together (note that there are no pins for asio3 and asio4), and labels the pins differently then epilog does, so the mapping will be different for ProFx:ASIO and for epilog.

Yes ... on the k1t thingy it's labbelled 0 then 1 then 2 then 5 ... I couldn't understand why it did that nor what to connect to those pins. Now it makes sense! Thankx!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

You might also take a look at the following:
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/asio/701...tml#post568654

It shows the mapping for my card (at the time of that post) with a couple of programs, and should give you an idea of how the numbering can be off (thus the mapping issue), and how the numbering differs when using epilog or ProFx:ASIO.

Great stuff! With a little more confidence now I can go and attack the problems I've been having! I apprecaite your reply!

Thankx
Dennis

Jun 10, 2007, 01:57 AM	#1
Slippers HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Ingersoll, Ontario Posts: 70 Rep Power: 0	DSP Private Exchange HoWdY!! Is there any way I could send some kind and knowledgeble person my DSP setup so that they could point out and maybe help me fix the errors, please? The DSP Exchange allows me to download, but not upload. I've been working with these DSP's for weeks now with very limited success. I've downloaded all the presets on the preset exchange site and they were wrong for my card or didn't do what I need the DSP to do. Thankx in advance for you help. Dennis

Jun 10, 2007, 05:43 PM	Thread Starter #4
Slippers HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Ingersoll, Ontario Posts: 70 Rep Power: 0	HoWdY!! Ok .. thankx for the replies folks! What I want to do is to play midi music out through speakers and headphones while recording audio in from a small mixer board without recording the midi going out as well. SB Live! 5.1 - SB0220 Digital Out- (1/8" orange jack) --> computer powered speakers Rear Out- (1/8" black jack) --> rear speakers --> power amp Line In- (1/8" blue jack) --> Mixer Board (XLR mic) Front Out- (1/8" green jack) --> empty Mic In- (1/8" red jack) --> empty I want to be able to use the soundfonts for the midi. You can click on the JPG of the DSP that I have tried to design that isn't working. You can also download the DMR_Record.kx file, too. I'm sure I've just connected the wrong line somewhere or am missing something that is needed. http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/7/...corder_DSP.JPG http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/7/.../DMR_Record.kx Thankx ! Dennis Last edited by Slippers; Jun 10, 2007 at 05:59 PM.

Jun 10, 2007, 07:37 PM	#5
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,563 Rep Power: 62	That looks like an older config that is not going to work with newer kX and ProFx versions. Line In should use the ProFx:ADC plugin (use ADC for all AC97 sources with newer ProFX). MIDI should be a ProFx:SRC plugin set to FxBus 2/3. I am not sure (from your description) what the purpose of the plugin labeled "Wave" is here (probably so you can hear what you recorded, but you did not mention what you wanted to do there). I cannot see how you have MX6 configured, so I am not sure which audio source is being routed to ASIO for recording, and which one is routed to the speakers. From your description, you should have it setup such that MIDI is sent to the speakers, and Line In is sent to ASIO, but I cannot verify it is configured that way. If you do not need to mix multiple audio sources, or use the sends, then a mixer such as MX6 is probably unnecessary (and maybe just adding complication/confusion). Surrounder is probably not necessary since you do not appear to be doing any upmixing or downmixing. Try to keep your configs as simple as possible until you understand the DSP. You did not mention anything about monitoring the audio from Line In, so I am not sure what your intention is as far as that goes. BTW: You did not mention what is/isn't working... Last edited by Russ; Jun 10, 2007 at 08:16 PM.

Jun 11, 2007, 06:43 PM	#14
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,563 Rep Power: 62	That should work, but he might as well figure out the mapping (it is not exactly hard to do), as in the future he may want to record multiple tracks, etc. Also, for stereo recording, some channels may not match up (left/right) correctly in the host software (i.e. some software only allows you to enable consecutive pairs of inputs for stereo, and ASIO 1/2 is not available (which would make ASIO 0/1 and ASIO 2/3 not usable for stereo recording in such software)). BTW: The above ASIO numbering refers to how it appears on epilog. Last edited by Russ; Jun 11, 2007 at 06:52 PM. Reason: typo

Jun 10, 2007, 07:46 AM	#2
Maddogg6 Tail Razer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bernyurass, AZ - USA Posts: 4,027 Rep Power: 0	If you explain your needs here - would be best - looking at your DSP prolly wont do much to explain your needs. and of course.... 'feed a man fish, and he eats for a day, but teach him to fish... '

Jun 10, 2007, 03:39 PM	#3
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,563 Rep Power: 62	You can always post a screenshot (use a free image hosting site or whatever to host the image, and then just post the link here), but as MD6 stated, we cannot help you fix the errors without knowing what it is (specifically) that you want it to do (and in what way(s) it does not do what you want, etc).

Jun 10, 2007, 11:02 PM	#7
Maddogg6 Tail Razer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bernyurass, AZ - USA Posts: 4,027 Rep Power: 0	This is all stock plugins. http://img341.imageshack.us/my.php?i...monitordl5.jpg I put some notes on there to help understand what I did.. Note you also need to select what AC97 source (physical input -'Line IN') is sent on the prolog pins in the kXMixer AC97 page. Also note - kX synths will only be dry - no reverb or Chorus. Those are sent on FXBuss line 13 & 14 and would need to be mixed in with the 'monitor buss'. I highly recommend getting ProFX plugin updated. here http://members.home.nl/nahutec/ProFx/profx3x.htm The version for all 3538 is what you need - assuming you are using the latest version of kX (V 3538M). It has an installer - and requires no extra effort (no need to uninstall anything - unless your current install is hosed - but assuming a fresh kX install - nothing else is needed to install this ProFX update) Once you have that installed - I can do a similar with ProFX (and even have kX Synths Reverb & Chorus mixed in too). But I hope you spend some time getting to understand what is happening here first - it will help later too.

Jun 11, 2007, 12:36 AM	Thread Starter #8
Slippers HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Ingersoll, Ontario Posts: 70 Rep Power: 0	HoWdY!! Great Stuff MadDog! Ihave that ProFX already downloaded and installed. I think that this has been a problem I was having was that I mixed up the old plugins with the new plugins. I'm thinking that a lot of them don't like each other. I see on that DSP you sent me that it was the old versions of the KX plugins that you used. I understand better now how things are connected through that much better now. If it wouldn't be too much of a pain, I think I would rather save the SB's precious resources by using the ProFX plugins. I appreciate your help and your one little diagram answered a thousand questions and made things much more clear! I tried using that ADC plugin as Russ suggested but it didn't work. There was a yellow exclamation mark on my taskbar in the open kxmixer box that showed that it wasn't working right. I am using ProFX V3.08.8 and KX V3538M I'm thinking with all the Soundfonts and changes and everything that it might be a good idea to uninstall the drivers and then do a totally clean install. I'll give your ideas a go and let you know how it worked. Thankx Dennis

Jun 11, 2007, 12:53 AM	#10
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,563 Rep Power: 62	I do not think that the problem is from different versions of ProFx, but rather (it seems) that you built your config from a preset (from the Preset Exchange site) that used the older ProFx, so the settings were not compatible. From your reply, I get the feeling that you do not understand how to adjust the settings of a plugin (which is a good reason why you cannot get it working). To access a plugins tweak window (for those plugins that have adjustable settings), double click on the plugin (or right click and choose "tweak" from the menu). Also, (as I stated in another one of your threads) if you plan on recording using ASIO, you need to figure out the ASIO mapping for your card. As for the yellow exclamation mark, I have never seen this, so I am not sure what it could be....

Jun 11, 2007, 01:15 AM	#11
Maddogg6 Tail Razer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bernyurass, AZ - USA Posts: 4,027 Rep Power: 0	Heres one with ProFX http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/1...diprofxyq0.jpg

Jun 11, 2007, 05:53 PM	#13
Maddogg6 Tail Razer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bernyurass, AZ - USA Posts: 4,027 Rep Power: 0	Additionally - you could drag From the REC OUT of MX6 to all the other ASIO (record buss) lines - and should eliminate any ASIO mapping issues, as you should get the input on all ASIO lines anyway - unless Russ knows otherwise (I dont have the mapping problem, so I cant know for certain)