missing AC97 folder and other problems

soongsc · Oct 13, 2007, 04:26 AM

I am happy to see that the new driver supports recording in Audigy 2ZS NB. I installed it sucessfully with all the default settings and playback/record seemed to work fine. Then I started to use this with SoundEasy for acoustic measurements and found out that when only one analog input should be receiving signal, two channels were recieving inputs even when one input was physically disconnected.

In the process of trying to solve the problem, I just ran RMAA to do some loopback frequency response tests, and found that 96KHz sample rate could only show the response to 20KHz and drops very fast above that.

Then I start to go through all the information on setting up the mixer and DSP, and discovered that the AC97 folder does not show up in the Kxmixer as it does in other examples shown in various guides.

Then I start to play around with the DSP with the default plugins and ProFx plugin, the best I can get is good playback and sometimes recording capability from a mic, but can never set the DSP up so that RMAA will run correctly at 96KHz sample rate. All of this was quite simple using the original Audigy drivers.

Help is much appreciated. I would like to setup the Kx driver so that I can do full duplex play and record using the analog headphone output jacks and the analog input jack. I would also like to do direct 6 channel playback each individually fed. Both will use only MME.

soongsc · Oct 15, 2007, 05:50 PM

I think I have the DSP connection right, but the loopback frequency response really looks bad. I would appreciate any pointers.
RMAA 5.5 measured frequency response
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/5503/splhb9.jpg
Master control settings
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/3166/masterpt3.jpg
Input output settings
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/596...toutputxq8.jpg
REcording Settings
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/5779/recordingrl4.jpg
DSP settings
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/7865/dspwb6.jpg

Max M. · Oct 15, 2007, 08:43 PM

>ac97

i guess ZS2NB simply has no ac97 chip - so no ac97 page for it (e.g. this is how it should be)

>96kHz

kX supports ("true") 96kHz only for its "Wave HQ" interface (utilizing so-called p16/17/vxyz extension chips of A2 and higher - see kX Project -- P16V Routing for details). The ZBNB (i suppose) has yet another p1xv chip variation not supported by kX - hence no true 96kHz playback/recording for kX+NB (and anything you play/record through kX's "Wave * 0/1/4/5/6/7/8/9" ports is internally resampled to 48kHz)...

soongsc · Oct 16, 2007, 01:45 AM

Thanks MAX,

I've been at this for days. The original creative drivers do give response that corresponds to 96KHz sampling, but has some jitter. I was trying out the Kx drivers to see if it will change. But I will try the P16V and see if I can get some sound out of it.

Max M. · Oct 16, 2007, 02:06 AM

>I will try the P16V and see if I can get some sound out of it.

No need. If i remember it right kX does not really supports it with ZSNB - so you'll just get silence for "Wave HQ" both for playback/record) - so i'm afraid there's no way to get any true 96kHz with kX - whatever you do.

soongsc · Oct 16, 2007, 05:34 AM

I did get sound out of using P16V, but the measurement results were the same. Then I unintsalled the Kx driver and reinstalled the Creative driver. The results are here:
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/5711/splor4.jpg
Currently my observations are:
1. Different sample rates require different anti-aliasing filters. The Kx driver does not seem to be stwiching in the filter for 96KHz sampling, and thus the measurements are the same as 48KHz sampling.
2. The Creative driver seems to be having trouble with 24bit 96KHz sampling, but not 24bit 48KHz and 16bit 96KHz sampling. It seems that the output buffer and/or input buffer are not set to suffeciently large size. The Kx driver does not seem to have this problem since there is a vast variety of selection available.

Max M. · Oct 16, 2007, 05:56 AM

so have you got sound in RMAA by selecting both "Wave HQ" for input and output?
- interesting... (if not then it was not the p16v)

(just do not get mixed up a bit - "p16v" is not just the module you see in the DSP (this module is just an I/O front-end and it has nothing to do with 24/94 - everything in kX DSP is 48kHz - and this "p16v" named rectangle in kX DSP is not the "p16v" chip actually - just a really confusing title for the pretty different thing) - well, you'd probably find some more details on how to measure 24/96 by searching the forum for "Wave HQ / RMAA" actually... (just for your reference) - but still i think it is impossible with kX+ZSNB - so if you've got some sound it was something else - not the "p16v" path)
- but never mind actually - just my la-bla-bla)

[color=gray]
Well, speaking of Creative drivers it was always hard to tune it for correct 24/96 playback/recording (every single option, button, little mark and whatever else in their control panel breaks it down to 16/48)) - well, actually i'd better to not discuss non-kX here - finally - it was a 4 years ago the last time i've seen Creative software closely

) [/color]

soongsc · Oct 16, 2007, 10:23 AM

I just replaced prolog with p16. The DSP connections are basically the same. Did not see any "Wave HQ" anywhere in any audio related settings. Where should I look?

Max M. · Oct 16, 2007, 11:16 AM

something like that: http://kxdev.narod.ru/images/wavehq.png

[color=gray]
p.s. actually - in newer versions kX could not show this "Wave HQ" port at all - for the cards it's not supported with (in earlier versions kX did). So if you can't see the one with ZSNB - it just means the same i said above - no pv16v for ZSNB -> no "Wave HQ" -> no "24/96"

- well -

actually [/color]

soongsc · Oct 17, 2007, 09:28 AM

It would be exciting to get 96KHz some day. For now I found out that if I enable SPDIF I2S0 the response is different from setting it to none.
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/6...parisonbv1.jpg

soongsc · Oct 22, 2007, 01:41 AM

The only Creative card that I have is the a2zsnb, there seems to be an interchannel latency of 1/96K ms at 96KHz which has also been reported to exist in other Audigy cards with HQ. Just wanted everyone to be aware of this. There also seems to be some clock jitter. I'm not sure whether these can be fixed through driver and buffering, but it would be nice if it could.

Oct 13, 2007, 04:26 AM	#1
soongsc DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	missing AC97 folder and other problems I am happy to see that the new driver supports recording in Audigy 2ZS NB. I installed it sucessfully with all the default settings and playback/record seemed to work fine. Then I started to use this with SoundEasy for acoustic measurements and found out that when only one analog input should be receiving signal, two channels were recieving inputs even when one input was physically disconnected. In the process of trying to solve the problem, I just ran RMAA to do some loopback frequency response tests, and found that 96KHz sample rate could only show the response to 20KHz and drops very fast above that. Then I start to go through all the information on setting up the mixer and DSP, and discovered that the AC97 folder does not show up in the Kxmixer as it does in other examples shown in various guides. Then I start to play around with the DSP with the default plugins and ProFx plugin, the best I can get is good playback and sometimes recording capability from a mic, but can never set the DSP up so that RMAA will run correctly at 96KHz sample rate. All of this was quite simple using the original Audigy drivers. Help is much appreciated. I would like to setup the Kx driver so that I can do full duplex play and record using the analog headphone output jacks and the analog input jack. I would also like to do direct 6 channel playback each individually fed. Both will use only MME.

Oct 16, 2007, 11:16 AM	#9
Max M. h/h member-shmember Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Evil Empire Posts: 2,639 Rep Power: 69	something like that: http://kxdev.narod.ru/images/wavehq.png [color=gray] p.s. actually - in newer versions kX could not show this "Wave HQ" port at all - for the cards it's not supported with (in earlier versions kX did). So if you can't see the one with ZSNB - it just means the same i said above - no pv16v for ZSNB -> no "Wave HQ" -> no "24/96" - well - actually [/color] Last edited by Max M.; Oct 16, 2007 at 11:26 AM.

Oct 15, 2007, 05:50 PM	Thread Starter #2
soongsc DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	I think I have the DSP connection right, but the loopback frequency response really looks bad. I would appreciate any pointers. RMAA 5.5 measured frequency response http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/5503/splhb9.jpg Master control settings http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/3166/masterpt3.jpg Input output settings http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/596...toutputxq8.jpg REcording Settings http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/5779/recordingrl4.jpg DSP settings http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/7865/dspwb6.jpg

Oct 15, 2007, 08:43 PM	#3
Max M. h/h member-shmember Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Evil Empire Posts: 2,639 Rep Power: 69	>ac97 i guess ZS2NB simply has no ac97 chip - so no ac97 page for it (e.g. this is how it should be) >96kHz kX supports ("true") 96kHz only for its "Wave HQ" interface (utilizing so-called p16/17/vxyz extension chips of A2 and higher - see kX Project -- P16V Routing for details). The ZBNB (i suppose) has yet another p1xv chip variation not supported by kX - hence no true 96kHz playback/recording for kX+NB (and anything you play/record through kX's "Wave * 0/1/4/5/6/7/8/9" ports is internally resampled to 48kHz)...

Oct 16, 2007, 01:45 AM	Thread Starter #4
soongsc DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	Thanks MAX, I've been at this for days. The original creative drivers do give response that corresponds to 96KHz sampling, but has some jitter. I was trying out the Kx drivers to see if it will change. But I will try the P16V and see if I can get some sound out of it.

Oct 16, 2007, 02:06 AM	#5
Max M. h/h member-shmember Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Evil Empire Posts: 2,639 Rep Power: 69	>I will try the P16V and see if I can get some sound out of it. No need. If i remember it right kX does not really supports it with ZSNB - so you'll just get silence for "Wave HQ" both for playback/record) - so i'm afraid there's no way to get any true 96kHz with kX - whatever you do.

Oct 16, 2007, 05:34 AM	Thread Starter #6
soongsc DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	I did get sound out of using P16V, but the measurement results were the same. Then I unintsalled the Kx driver and reinstalled the Creative driver. The results are here: http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/5711/splor4.jpg Currently my observations are: 1. Different sample rates require different anti-aliasing filters. The Kx driver does not seem to be stwiching in the filter for 96KHz sampling, and thus the measurements are the same as 48KHz sampling. 2. The Creative driver seems to be having trouble with 24bit 96KHz sampling, but not 24bit 48KHz and 16bit 96KHz sampling. It seems that the output buffer and/or input buffer are not set to suffeciently large size. The Kx driver does not seem to have this problem since there is a vast variety of selection available.

Oct 16, 2007, 05:56 AM	#7
Max M. h/h member-shmember Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Evil Empire Posts: 2,639 Rep Power: 69	so have you got sound in RMAA by selecting both "Wave HQ" for input and output? - interesting... (if not then it was not the p16v) (just do not get mixed up a bit - "p16v" is not just the module you see in the DSP (this module is just an I/O front-end and it has nothing to do with 24/94 - everything in kX DSP is 48kHz - and this "p16v" named rectangle in kX DSP is not the "p16v" chip actually - just a really confusing title for the pretty different thing) - well, you'd probably find some more details on how to measure 24/96 by searching the forum for "Wave HQ / RMAA" actually... (just for your reference) - but still i think it is impossible with kX+ZSNB - so if you've got some sound it was something else - not the "p16v" path) - but never mind actually - just my la-bla-bla) [color=gray] Well, speaking of Creative drivers it was always hard to tune it for correct 24/96 playback/recording (every single option, button, little mark and whatever else in their control panel breaks it down to 16/48)) - well, actually i'd better to not discuss non-kX here - finally - it was a 4 years ago the last time i've seen Creative software closely ) [/color]

Oct 16, 2007, 10:23 AM	Thread Starter #8
soongsc DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	I just replaced prolog with p16. The DSP connections are basically the same. Did not see any "Wave HQ" anywhere in any audio related settings. Where should I look?

Oct 17, 2007, 09:28 AM	Thread Starter #10
soongsc DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	It would be exciting to get 96KHz some day. For now I found out that if I enable SPDIF I2S0 the response is different from setting it to none. http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/6...parisonbv1.jpg

Oct 22, 2007, 01:41 AM	Thread Starter #11
soongsc DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 0	The only Creative card that I have is the a2zsnb, there seems to be an interchannel latency of 1/96K ms at 96KHz which has also been reported to exist in other Audigy cards with HQ. Just wanted everyone to be aware of this. There also seems to be some clock jitter. I'm not sure whether these can be fixed through driver and buffering, but it would be nice if it could.