cverrcv

Hi,

I have an Audigy 2 ZS (sb0350) soundcard and I'm beginning to be very confused as concern how to make sure to have the best audio output quality from it.

Furthermore, I would like to have the Front and Rear audio output jacks (output Line 1 and Output Line 2) to deliver exactly the same stereo signals and I tried all I could think of but it didn't worked so far.

So, I really need help to understand all this because even if I'm an experienced electronic technician since more than 30 years, all the informations that are available from everywhere are so confusing that I just don't know what do to and what to think anymore...lolll

First of all, I read that the DSP of this soundcard must be avoided, as much as possible, because it apparently generates a very high level of harmonic distortions.

So, I installed the HQSoftProc_Software_Resampling_v4 in order to avoid this distortion because I'm an extremely demanding user who's asking for nothing but the best in sound quality.

However, this resampling software seems to apparently be only used when Winamp is the source of the audio signal, unless I'm wrong of course...

So, I kept reading and searching on this subject and that's how I discovered the KX drivers and I installed them to give it a try and what I heard was so unexpected in term of audio quality increase that I never got back to Creative Labs drivers and I'm now using the KX 3545b drivers on the e00 HQ audio reading input.

So, my first question goes as following:

If I use the e00 HQ audio reading input, do I really need the HQSoftProc Software Resampling to avoid the Audigy DSP to resample the digital signals of the imputs because according to my observations the e00 HQ audio reading input is already avoiding the DSP circuits when the HQ audio reading input is used because when I use it, I can no longer use the KX effects 10 band equaliser because it doesn't work on this input and the Winamp EQ doesn't work neither at that moment as well.

This being said and while waiting for an answer on this question, let's return to my main topic

Unfortunately, I had a problem lately with my main sound system setup and this problem costed two pairs of tweeter voices coils to me.

So, I really would like to understand how is working the KX mixer because I must have both of the Front and Rear Analog output jacks (output Line 1 and Output Line 2) to deliver exactly the same stereo signals to both of my sound systems, no matter what is the source of the sound or where the sound comes from in my computer but as long as the source will be a standard and simple stereo signal source, of course but I always only use standard stereo source signals whn I'm listening music and no I never use multichannels (4.1-5.1-6.1-7.1) like available in games or movies or from any other sources. I might use this kind of multichannels setup one of these days but that's not the problem that worries me right now.

I must tell you before to go any further that I use two different sound systems on this soundcard, but only one at a time, and they go as following:

1: A small size one located on my computer desk which is an amplified stereo sound system with 2 small two ways speakers for the mid and high frequencies plus a small subwoofer for the low frequencies.

2: A main high power sound system for my living room wich is composed of a pair of 3 ways speakers and a 125 WRMS per channel power amplifier.

So, no matter which one of these sound systems I'm using, I don't need a preamp because I'm using my computer soundcard (Audigy 2 ZS) to take care of this.

The reason why I burned two pairs of Tweeter voice coils on my main sound system is because of a broken ground lead.

So, I must avoid this to occur once more otherwise my mental sanity might quickly become questionnable, hehehe...lolll

In order to avoid the possibility to see a broken ground lead again, I must stop to be forced to plug and unplug my main sound system audio cables each time that I want to listen to the music from it because I must switch from my computer desk sound system to my main sound system or the reverse depending which one of them is connected.

The last time that such a thing occured, I was connected through a sort of splitter jack which had two pairs of audio cables connected on a jack which had internal switches that were activated when a stereo plug was inserted in the jack.

So, like most of you have probably already guessed, both of these audio cables coming from this jack assembly were ending on an 1/8 stereo plug each and one of them was connected to one of the Audigy audio ouptput jacks while the other one was connected to my computer desk sound system input jack and when I wanted to listen to my main sound system, I needed to switch off the signal going to the computer desk sound system and all I had to do in order to accomplish this was to plug the audio cable coming from my main amp to the jack input assembly where these two audio cables were wired in.

Unfortunately, the last time I did this, before to turn On the power on my main amp, the ground lead of the jack assembly broke without it being noticeable, so, I turned On the power on my main amp as usual but before I had the time to make two steps, I heard an ear blowing hiss from my loudspeakers and before I had the time to turn Off the power to my main power amp, which was less than two seconds, it was already to late, my tweeter voice coils were already gone in smoke because when this happens a very high pitch comes out from my main power amp and by checking my power meters with the speaker deconnected by the amp speakers switch, I could see that my main amp was at full power when it occured and this power is unfortunately exceeding the power capability of my tweeters by a factor of 25%.

So, to make an already awfully long story short, I want to avoid this sort of thing to happen again in the future and to do this I must have both of the Front and Rear output jacks of my Audigy 2 ZS soundcard to deliver exactly the same stereo signals that the audio source but coming from differents amplifying circuits, if such a thing is feasable.

At that moment, to choose which one of my sound systems will receive the stereo signals that I would like to listen to, I would simply use the Analog Front and Rear level controls available on the In's and Out's tab of the KX mixer.

Unfortunately, all my attemp to make it work haven't worked so far.

So, I'm really wondering what I'm doing wrong or what I missed because I just can't find how to do it even if I'm very used to work with complicated audio connections because I have been working as a technician for many local rock groups and I also used to work as an Audio Engineer assistant on a couple of 32 tracks mixers equiped recording studios during a long time in the past.

The fact is that I tried all the speakers setup available on the KX mixer but none of them changed something. As a matter of fact, none of them seemed to even have an effect to tell you the whole truth and I don't know why but my Windows XP SP3 sound properties Speakers setup is grayed...

Besides, something weird is going on in the KX mixer because none of the Front and Rear level controls seems to be working because they do not change the level of the sound no mater where I put them and as a matter of fact, the sound keeps playing even If I mute both of these level controls...

Of course, I tried the 2.1 and all other .1 setup that you could think of on the KX Mixer and I also choosed the Front=Rear setup in the speaker connection setups but none of these setup gave the expected result or even changed something as a matter of fact...

So, I was thinking about something and I wonder if someone could help me with this.

When we select the Master tab of the mixer, there's a "Swap Front and Rear" toggle option available.

I was wondering if there's a possibility to program this toggle to work in a slightly different way than it is right now and to have a new icon to be displayed on the quick launch task bar which would display a small applet where the following choices would be offererd when the user he/she would click on this icon, as wollowing:

1: Swap Front and Rear (as usal)
2: Force Front to equal Rear (same stereo signal source simultaneously)
3: Leave the Front and Rear work as usual (normal operation)

This way, no matter what would be the output jack where the user would be connected, the user would always be able to choose from where the signal would come from.

Of course, I'm not a software programmer and I simply just couldn't program anything to do it but looking at all the KX mixers settings, it seems that such a thing might almost already be possible from there and it would just need an icon and a small applet to be programmed in order to take care of this and fullfill this need and I'm pretty sure that there's a lot of kind programmers out on this forum who would be glad to do it just for the fun to help...lolll

To come back on the topic, in my case, I'm using a standard stereo sound system setup where there's no need to have the low frequencies to be filtered down through a low pass filter and mixed in a mono output for the use of a subwoofer because my computer desk sound system is already taking care of this by itself while my main sound system doesn't need a subwoofer at all.

In other words, to summ it all, I just need to have the Front output jack signal to have exactly and precisely the very same signal than the Rear output jack and I need to be totally sure that both pairs of these output jacks are taking their signals from different amplifying circuits because I do not want any of these circuits to drive two power amp imput circuits at the same time and this is why I was wondering how this is accomplished when we select the mixer toggle switch to swapp the Front and Rear because I often read that the Rear output jack of this soundcard circuit is apparently delivering a noticeably better audio quality than the Front output jacks and this is why I want to make sure that I will use the best audio circuits available on this soundcard.

So, if it is only the output jacks that are swapped by this toggle, that's rather useless to bother with it because at this moment it would force the signal feeded at these outpout jacks to be shared and doing this could lower the signal level for both output jacks while it might at the same time also considerably deteriorate the audio quality of both pairs of output jacks by doing so. It would be much better to force the swapping to be done at the imput of the amplifying circuits, if possible, because the impedance at this point has all the chances to be much higher than the impedance at the output and the signals from the source would therefore be a lot less prone to being degraded by the loading of two circuits at the same time than it would be at the ouptut.

So, I hope that someone will be able to make all this clear because I really would like to understand all this and especially how to make it work, I mean to have the Front and Rear output jacks to deliver exactly the same stereo signals on a standard 2 channels sound system from standard stereo recordings signal sources because that's the only kind of stuff that I'm listenig to (stero music) on my computer, if such a thing is possible, of course...lolll but given that the channels can be swapped, I just can't see why they couldn't simply just be connected simultaneously at the same signal source...

Of course, you must understand that I know that, as a matter of fact, when I say "the very same stereo signal" that I'm aware that such a thing is not possible because two amplifying circuits will never be able to deliver exactly the very same 100% absolutely identical signals even if they were build of an absolutely identical way because of the components tolerances fluctuations. So, by this, I just mean that the signals must be coming from the same source but not from the same amplifying circuit because I intend to use the Front output jack to drive my computer desk sound system while I will use the rear output jack to drive my main sound system because the rear output jack is supposed, at least according to many sources, to deliver a superior audio quality because of the amplifying circuits to which it is connected and this is why I want to make sure to be conected on these circuits and not on those of the Front jacks.

Please forgive me and accept all my apologies for this awfully long post but I had to make sure that I would be well understood and that's why I had no other choice than to give all these details.

Thanks in advance for your understanding and support.

Chris.

Maddogg6

There is no difference with your card model - the front vs rear quality is only true for some (if not all..??) SBLive models. Your card uses same codecs for front and rear.

Ok - I see a few things about Wave HQ you dont seem to understand ... this should clear up a good many of your questions....

Wave HQ playback works like this....
the kX DSP is locked at 48Khz - so anything played with Wave 0/1,2/3,4/5,6/7 - will get get sent to the DSP and re-sampled to 48Khz - to avoid this - the P16V device was added that is capable of bypassing the kX DSP and thus avoiding the resampling.
Wave HQ will bypass the kX DSP and send audio to the physical outputs directly and avoid resampling.

This has a side effect of not being able to do all the fancy routing and effects the DSP is capable of.

Now, You can force Wave HQ into the DSP with the P16V plugin - and thus route/add effects etc... - but it is re-sampled to 48Khz. This can be handy to add 48Khz effects to the Wave HQ playback if you wish.

So with Wave HQ - we *can not* reroute audio *and* keep sample rates @ non-48Khz (> 48Khz).

The volume controls on the kX Mixer ins and outs page do nothing for Wave HQ playback and neither does the speaker set up.

The only control we have with Wave HQ is 'Swap Front <> Rear' and Master & Wave Volume.
Wave HQ - like Wave 0/1 is special in that, it can be fed multi-channel audio - so if you have software that allows you to address the channels discretely - you can do a bit more obviously - but, besides a surround DVD player, or a game - the only other software I have seen that allows me to use multi-channels with Wave HQ is DAW (Sonar)

The kX Help shows how the P16V is connected with kX DSP and how its like a 'bridge' to bypass the DSP/resampling.

Now - if you use Wave 0/1,2/3,4/5,6/7 - the speaker settings will work, and so should the front/rear levels on the Ins and Outs page of kX mixer.
Keeping in mind that a good deal of kX mixers controls depend on plugins loaded in the kX DSP (and will disappear if removed from kX DSP config).
Main Page - Master Volume - Epilog plugin (tho, adjusts P16V volume too)
Speaker Setup - Surrounder Plugin
Ins & Outs Page - Top Row - Epilog
Ins & Outs Page - Bottom Row - Prolog plugin
Record Page upper row - X-Routing plugin


Its worthy of an award; 'Longest post thats not a tutorial'
Id say 'just kidding' - but I would be lying

cverrcv

Ok,

Thanks a lot buddy because now I understand much better the whole thing.

If I could only figure out how to use the P16V to feed both the Front and Rear output jacks simultaneously and find a way that will allow me to be able to control the level of the signals sent to these outputs with a volume control or to turn it Off by a switch or to have both of them ideally, my problem would be solved becauseI I need none of the goodies that I can see in the KX mixer when I select the DSP view.

As a mater of fact, I might have appreciated to be able to use the 10 bands EQ like I have been using it in the past but Foobar2000 has its own soft Eq and I'm happy with it and If I need more than this I will probably be able to find another one working the same way that the one of Foobar2000 and at this moment it will need none of the Audigy 2 ZS DSP features because I precisely wish to avoid for all my audio signals to get in touch with the Audiguy 2 ZS DSP, no matter how costly it would be in term of features losts.

By the way, I already played a bit with the P16V to see if it would change something but nothing happened...lolll

As a matter of fact, I don't even have the slightest idea about where for God's sakes is coming the signal in the first place in that mess, hehehe, hahaha...lolll

So, if you could give me a link where I could find this information in the help fiiles, it would help me a lot you have no idea at which point...lolll

Of course, if someone, anybody, could explain it to me here, simply, I mean in a way that I will be able to understand quickly, I would be as much happy for sure...lolll

cverrcv

Hi again Maddogg6

I think that I finally did it the right way now...lolll

I simply opened the KX help and looked around to find the P16V routing as well as the DXP rooting and I gave it a try by checking with a peak meter and I found how to do it.

So that wasn't so complicated after all and I now have both the Front and Rear or if you prefer both le line 1 and line 2 outputs delivering absolutely the same stereo signals and I can control these outputs by a volume control or turn them Off by the mute button like I wanted.

Included is a picure of this setup showing the DXP routings of thuis setup.

Everything seems to be working fine right now but just let me know if you see something wrong or innapropriate.

Here's the direct link to this picture just in case that the upload of tee image wouldn't work or the image would be too large for the forum:

Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

Attached Images

 

Maddogg6

Hello...

for some reason (strange) I can't see your pic in full size - when I click on the link - it opens this same thread again?? - its very strange - I can see the URL has 'photobucket.com' - but links me back to this thread...

But, from what I can see with the thumbnail it looks like you are using the P16V plugin in the DSP to feed front out of epilog.

A problem with that is... you can be 'doubling' the sound and creating bad phasing effect/cancellations... so...

Simply remove P16V plugin from kX DSP - and use the Convert Stereo to 4 Channels plugin in foobar - use Wave HQ as you have been. And you should accomplish your goal.

Remember - the P16V (the physical device) is *also* sending sound to the physical outputs as long as kX 24/96 router has the P16V > Outputs enabled.
So using P16V plugin as it looks like you did in that thumbnail - you will be doubling the sound which is never desired this way.

Here's a pic on how to use P16V plugin to add effects to Wave HQ playback - adding EQ this way is not recommended...

http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/3...effectshi6.jpg

Also remember - we have no way to control P16V device volumes discretely - in that - the kX mixer ins and outs page top row - has no affect on P16V device volumes - you are only likely hearing how much 'doubled' mix is added by DSP to P16V device output.

Edit: What is happening in my pic is:
The DRY (thus, not resampled audio by kX DSP) audio is sent to the physical outputs by the P16V device (becuase the 24/96 Router P16V
> Outputs is enabled) - the P16V plugin is sending resampled audio to the reverb - the reverb is sending affected audio - in the case above - only WET audio to Epilog - these get mixed at the physical outputs - we have no control over this mix - we can only adjust the WET of the reverb plugin.

You can not do anything with kX DSP *and* avoid resampling if using Wave HQ and P16V plugin. What ever is sent to kX DSP vai the P16V plugin - *IS* being resampled. period.

cverrcv

yeah,I also have the weird full size image redirection problem here but I thought that I was pprobably be the only one with this problem...lolll

So, I'm sorry but I don't have the slightest idea why this is happenning

Anyway, you were right, I was using the P16V and I effectively had a sound doubling pronlem on the Front out and Iwas wondering why such a thing was happenning...lolll

So, I did like you've and it solved the problem.

However, solving Foobar's problem will only work for Foobar, unfortunately, so how will I do with all the other applications like Windows Media Player or any other applications that I could use to watch/edit movies or play/edit music or audio files???

Are you tring to make me understand that there's absolutely no way to do the same thing, but of permanent way, while making it in such a way that no mater where will come from the stereo signal, it will always be divided in two and feed both he Front and Rear output jacks simultaneously, without seeing the infamous DSP jump on the opportunity to resample the signal with the disastrous consequences that entails, are you?

If that's what will happen, no matter how I try to solve this problem, I think that the time is come to get rid of this garbage named Audigy 2 ZS and to look for a soundcard using a much better design and especially one offering a lot more flexibility to the end users when comes the time to tweak it or personnalize the way it works t fit our needs or tastes.

At least, Asus seems to offer a much better product since a while, as far as their published/advertised performance and specifications are concerned, with their Xonar D2X and D2/PM soundcards but I haven't read anything else than their web site info so far, but I might possibly begin to look toward these soundcards a lot more seriously now...lolll

So, I hope that there's a way to make something out of these Audigy 2 ZS soundcards without seeing all our efforts being ruined all the time by the D#*n DSP but the way it goes, the less I'm comvinced of it

Maddogg6

I dont know how to put in simpler terms..???

Wave HQ will get sent straight to the physical outputs - with only one exception - a setting in kX 24/96 router (and this is only an on/off setting).

what you were doing was - defeating the purpose of using Wave HQ by feeding audio into the DSP with P16V plugin. If only playing MP3's coded to 44 Khz like is normally - its no problem - its only a problem when trying to playback stuff coded greater than the 48Khz that the kX DSP is locked in at.

The audgy 2 ZS is a *consumer* sound card - no driver will change that. If you *need* sample rates > 48Khz - then you bought the wrong sound card. While Wave HQ is capable of > 48Khz playback - its because of the P16V device that bypasses the kX DSP 0 but we looses routing and effects capability - because the P16V device is not a DSP but just a coedec that by passes the kX DSP for the sole purpose of avoiding re sampling audio that was coded > 48 Khz.

perhaps you are not sufficiently familiar with what the differences between a 'codec' and a 'DSP' in what function they serve...?? but it is the DSP that make possible the ability to re-rout audio, add effects etc.. where, the codec just converts digital information into an audio signal be it analog or a digital audio signal.

Wave HQ bypasses the kX DSP. Unless the P16V plugin is feeding audio int the DSP - the dsp is not affecting wave HQ playback. When the P16V plugin is used - it forces a re-sampling of the audio - and mixes the Audio fed to Epilog in the DSP to the Audio fed to the physical putputs by the P16V device.

Again - refer to the kX help on a diagram of how the P16V and DSP are connected to the physical outputs in *parallel*. With a mix that is *not* controllable.