soundguy_99

Hey Guys,
I am running a 4.1 Creative labs sound card using KX.
I modified the dsp for what I want, and everything is for the most part working the way I want, but I do have a few questions for you.
1)When I play some music and play some games, everything works yet when I use the test only of my Satalies (both Front and 1 rear) work, the sub and the 1 rear doesn`t work for test mode. How does the speaker test work, and is there a way to configure it so it does work, using the dsp I have setup.
If you can`t make it work, it might be a cool idea for a plugin within the dsp, kind of a passthrough plugin that everyhting passes through so that you can test speakers.
Its intresteng using the default dsp all channels for the speaker test comes out properly, yet using my dso configurations 3 of 4 stalites to work and no sub.
2) The other reason I wanted to know about the speaker test, is that if i can find that actual low output, I would like to edit the crossover point of whats being sent to the sub, and posibily put a gain stage on it so I can control it from the softeare end, for balancing purposes.
Any thoughts are greatly apreciated,
Thanks,
soundguy_99

Russ

In order for us to be able to help, you need to provide the following info:

What version of kX are you currently using? (routing is slightly different in recent versions)

What OS are you currently using? (I assume it is XP since I do not think that the speaker test works in Vista (I am unsure of the routing in Vista, so I am not sure how much help I can be if you are using Vista)).

Also, in order for us to be able to tell you what is wrong with your DSP config, you would need to post a sceenshot of it.

You have basically all the info you need in your thread here:
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/general-...ml#post1094988

... but, in recent versions of kX, multichannel audio (which is what the speaker test uses) moved to FxBus 2/3/4/5/6/7 (front L/R, rear/LR, center/LFE), and the kX Synth's moved to FxBus 12/13. Of course all of this assumes that you are using the default routing in kX Router.

soundguy_99

Sorry for getting back to you right away, Got caught up with work,
I am running XP Home with SP3.
KX Driver is current version 5.10.00.3541.
Heres my DSP screen shot. I have Customizied my DSP so when I play music I am getting a nice full sound from all 4 speakers from my listening position.
Also I use Ventrillo for gaming so, I have customized my ventrillo volume to always be slighly above my actual game volume, so I can always maintain that clear communication above my in game volume, without without always having to tweak either my in game volume or my vent volume.

Attached Thumbnails

 

Russ

You are using the wrong FxBus pins for front and rear.

Front should be FxBus 4/5 (pins 5/6).
Rear should be FxBus 6/7 (pins 7/8).

BTW: I also suggest connecting the center channel to Surrounder (even though your card is only 4.1).

soundguy_99

Hey thanks for the help,
I can`t believe I missed that one.
I have all 4 Satalites working within the speaker test now, but the only thing I am still missing on the speaker test is the sub. On the default I can test the sub however I can`t using my dsp. Any Ideas.
BTW I did what you suggested and connected the center to the surrounder. FX Bus 8 (center) 9 (sub) to Surounder "in N" (center) and "in lfe" (sub) if I am correct.
Again your help is apreciated,
Thanks,

Maddogg6

you may need to adjust surrounder to match your particular speaker system..

If the sub is 'discrete' and has its own connection to the sound card, then the 'use subwoofer output' should be checked.

But I think you need to make sure that is not checked, if I understand your hardware configuration correctly.

soundguy_99

You are correct, I have to leave that "use sub output" unchecked, in order to have the sub output working within the speaker test.
I am now also able to fine tune that bass output a bit more, as well as the tops.
Thanks,

Russ

Such speaker systems have their own built-in crossover that determines which frequencies go to the subwoofer, so there is only so-much fine tuning that you can do in the DSP that will effect the sub.

BTW: You should take a look at this:
kX Project: Knowledgebase: kX Getting Started Guide - Fixing the Bass problem in 4.1 Setup

soundguy_99

Hey Russ,
I understand about the phase Cancellation but its good to know that about the 2 separate codecs for between the fron and rear on sound blaster cards.
Can you do me a favor and explain to me how a 4.1 card deals with bass ouput. On the FX bus output 8 and 9 do the center and bass output respectfully, and then you feed those into to the surrounder and then into you K1lt or Epilog. Now the bass from the speaker test definetly runs off of the output 8/9 on the fx bus, however when you play music the main music runs off of FX Bus 0/1, which includes the bass. If I disable the 2 gain stages running off of FX Bus 0/1 I get no bass as well even though FX bus 9 is wired. Now I imagine, without the sub ouput on a 4.1 card, that sub, uses an passive crossover on either the front and rear speakers to seperate the lows to the subs, allowing the mid/Highs to pass to the satalies.
If thats the case whats the purpose (unless for gaiming) for wireing the center/lfe from the FX bus through the surounder to the K1lt or Epiilog, if the bass is still on the music comming from FX Bus 0/1. I realize that your still dealing with the passive crossover that you can`t change, however I would like to use the dsp to gain more control of what I am sending to that passive crossover in the sub.
If I understand this right the only way I can do this is to set up a seperate crossover off of FX bus 0/1 (music) sperateing the lows and hights. then mid/highs to the surounder as per normal, while lows go through summing unit summing the lows from FX bus 9 which would go then through a gain stage for cotrol the bass output, and then finally through the surounder and then to the k1lt or Epilog. So if I was to set something like that up, any Processing I do to the bottom end, even though I am feeding it to the LFE In on the k1lt will that get combined with the Mid/highs on teh final output or would I have combine that with the front/rear inputs for those changes to be heard.
Sorry for the long question, I have been learning alot mroe about the DSP itself, but I am trying to understand exactly how the soundcard itself process the audio, espically on a 4.1 card, so I can make better use of the dsp.
Again your help is greatly apreciated,
Thanks.

Russ

The reason to connect center/LFE (FxBus to Surrounder) is only for multichannel audio sources (games with 3D audio, AC3, etc) that might contain those channels. When Surrounder is set to 4.0 or less (with Surround ON), these channels are mixed (depending on Surrounder's settings) into the front or rear (or both) by Surrounder (which is why you can hear the center/LFE channels with the speaker test, even though you do not have a center speaker or discreet subwoofer). There is no need to connect center/LFE to kxlt (since these outputs of the sound card are not being used (or do not exist)).

Most likely your speaker system's crossover redirects frequencies from both front and rear (since the satellites probably cannot handle those frequencies), and since front/rear is all that is connected to the sound card, there is not much point in using a crossover in the DSP.

Maddogg6

Maybe this will help....

Because your speakers has its own sub and thus its own crossover... the only real control you have is to boost the bass sent to the speakers, so your speaker systems crossover has 'more bass' to direct to the systems subwoofer...

we do that in the DSP or in the media player software in several ways usually involving EQ or some other 'bass enhancement'.

We have several options in the DSP.... There is the 'timbre' (Simple bass and treble control) - the 10 Band EQ (uses a bit of dsp resources) - and/or you could split off and add a low pass filter and mix that back with original audio for added bass if set correctly.

if you installed Max M.s UFX - there are parametric equalizers which are quite nice.

Often a graphic equalizer is used to compensate for a speaker systems response, thus all the bands they usually have. But even the timbre plugin can possibly help add more bass to your sound (depends on how much boost and what freqs). But there are other ways too.

and may actually be causing your problems.

soundguy_99

Hey Guys,
I want to thank you for your help.
I have since reconfigured my dsp and as far as music is concerned I have cleaned the sound up allot. I have actually managed to work around the passive crossover frequency points, to to actually clean up the sound.
I have used a 2nd order crossover, off of FX Bus 0/1 to seperate the lows and highs which allows me to process the lows spereatly from the highs. On the lows I have put a low pass as well as high pass filter to really focus on whats going to the sub (for music I don`t really need my computer desk ratling when I bareley have it turned up). I also added a delay to the lows, to better align it up with the tops. Also instead of combining with the Left and right like you mentioned, I feed it through a stereo sum and gain, into the multichannel LFE input of the surrounder along with the regular Multichannel LFE comming off of the FX bus ( for gaiming I don`t mind that air movment on the bottom, so I have it unprocessed).
On the tops Again, I have a Highpass filter to limit what the tops get, as well as 2 peaking EQ's to reduce the remaining frequencies that are leaking into the subs, from the passive crossover. This allows me to smoothen out the leakage from the tops going into the subs, which not only minimizes the leakage, but makes the leakage that is comming through much more natual and smooth. I then feed that through a 10 Band Graphic EQ (wish I had a 31 band) for tonal corrections to the satalie speakers, and then finally from the graphics feding both the fronts and rears, through a Stereo Mix +Gain respectivly, which allows me to combine and mix the fronts (Music+Game) and rears (music+game) and then send then into their respective spots on the surounder.
I know it might seem a bit alaborite for music, but I am alot more picky in terms of sound, when I listen to music than any of the other stuff, and really workd well for my setup. Just wish I had a 31 band EQ to insert instead of the 10 but oh well.
Again thanks for the help, With all the processing I just managed to get under the registers limit..LOL
Thanks,
soundguy_99