Caithleann

I installed the new 3551 release after 3550 became corrupt (recording stopped working altogether) and now I have an annoying SPDIF flag popping up and down in the bottom right corner covering my time indicator in the tray.
What causes this?

Also, it appears that the I/O port pairs are chosen randomly at install time, one time it will be 2/3, another time it is 6/7 or 4/5. Needless to say that I am getting tired of having to reassign those numbers in my custom mixer settings every time.

Can anyone enlighten me, please?
Thanks

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silvertones

Yea. This is not a new release this is an Alpha release meant for testing. It comes before BETA that comes before a stable release. see the trend? Report your findings and either keep testing or reinstall 3550.

Caithleann

Thank you for responding. I guess I should have given more details in my description.
This behavior is NOT unique to the 3551 Alpha, it happens with older versions too. The randomization of the FXbus is not limited to the 3551 and neither is the annoying flapping of the SPDIF banner above the system tray. I am familiar with the differences between Alphas, ßetas and final releases. So, anyone else that has had this problem and actually found a real solution?

Recap: SPDIF flag appearing and disappearing randomly; FXBus outputs randomly being assigned to the outside world connections of the physical audio card at install time forcing manual reassignment in custom DSP templates.

Anyone?

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Tyrsonswood

What OS version are you using? If your specs are up to date and that P4 is running XP go back to version 3545...... Not that it's going to fix this isssue but it works better with XP

If your specs are not up to date and you are not running XP, ignore what I just said.


Now, for the issue.... I would try a different PCI slot for the card, then after you re-install the card/drivers do a "reset device settings" in KX mixer. See if that changes anything. I've never heard of this or run into it, but I'm suspicious there may be an IRQ issue.

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Caithleann

Hi Tyrsonswood,

You know, I never thought I would have to give my comp's specs for this but I guess that after 7 years it is necessary.

I am running Win 7 32-bit on a self-built system consisting of:
ASUS P4G800 Motherboard,
P4 CPU Northwood - 2.40 GHz (single core, 2 threads)
3 GB DDR memory, all sticks rated 400 MHz FSB but actually only run at 320MHz.
System uses normal PCI buses.

Your observation of changing slots is incredibly astute, that is when trouble started. I had problems with the machine a week ago and took out unneeded cards. With the extra space I moved the audio card away from the video card which generates heat and has a fan running right above the Live card. So I thought it wise to move the audio card to the next slot, not realizing that this would cause any problems.
Upon bootup the system reported the existing kX installation as missing and proceeded, without my acknowleding to "reinstall" it. Since then I have not been able to record, the kX mixer being locked in as #3 so in the end I uninstalled kX and moved the card back to its previous slot.
After reinstalling version 3550 it did not return to normal, the FX Busses are still randomly assigned (It used to be 2/3 default) the SPDIF banner now annoyingly appears and disappears and I can still not record/capture sounds from videos, radiostations or whatever else is generated inside the box. But it will play on the speakers... I am slowly losing my patience with this constantly changing behavior of kX; it prevents me from actually learning and understanding it and it is taking too much time out of my day to get it working.

I have my own DSP setup based on Lex Nahumury's tutorials that uses only about 30% of the resources that a full DSP uses. A standard DSP does not give me any sound at all anymore without some serious messing around with the FX buses which I am not willing to do anymore. The project seems to have moved too far from its original premise (general replacement of the Creative Audio Driver) requiring users to have a much higher than normal grasp of Audio routing and DSP skills.

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Russ

I cannot help with the FxBus assignment thing (the issue with the routing of stereo audio with Master Mixer on Windows Vista/7), that issue has been around for a while now and there is not much we (end users) can do about it (BTW: I use Windows XP, which does not have this issue). If the workarounds are no good for you, then all you can do is to post a bug report and respond when Eugene asks specifically about such issues.

3551 bugs
Master Mixer issues in Windows 7 and Vista - driver 3550

If only a few people respond when Eugene asks about such issues, then he might think that it works fine for everyone else, or that the issue is not that serious....


As for the SPDIF popup, it indicates SPDIF activity, do you have anything connected to any of the cards digital I/O's? If you are not using any of the cards digital I/O's than I am not sure why you would see the popup, but these notifications can be disabled: Settings -> OSD Settings

Caithleann

Hi Russ, thanks for your response and for those links! I am going to spend some time reading and assimilating that.

I have nothing connected to any digital I/O and the last month or so only the front and rear outputs are in use, so there should be no need for any S/P DIF activity anywhere. I did notice moderate to severe crackling in the audio virtually synchronous with the (dis)appearance of that banner, however, and also higher than normal CPU use. I must therefore assume that kX is active when it shouldn't be and that is consuming CPU power needlessly.

• Audio products such as Reason, Ableton Live, FL Studio and DAWs can no longer use kXASIO as it is suddenly requires a huge buffer (more than 512 mSec, used to be 23 mSec) to stop audible pops and crackles that latency has become unacceptable. I now have to use ASIO4ALL which seems to be much better. I have NO idea why kX is misbehaving like this but I ascribe it to Windows 7 and especially Service Pack 1 which made matters much worse.
I also have WinXP on this same machine and kX seems to be working fine on that.

• Considering these major discrepancies and the fact that some people have reported similar issues, would it not be a logical thing for Eugene to do an A - B comparison between the two and try to figure out a solution starting with, for example, why the speaker test no longer functions? I am not a programmer and I know not much about Windows but to me such an obvious breakage in my software after a Windows update would indicate a serious discontinuity between the Windows Interface and my software, so I would find out why. That way perhaps the answer to other problems may be easier to solve.

OF course, I do not mean to be patronizing about how Eugene should do his coding, in fact I am very grateful that he made kX in the first place. So,please, do not be offended. I was just thinking out aloud

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Russ

Does that include internal connections like CD_SPDIF?

As for kX ASIO, I do not recall any similar reports from other Vista/7 users, so I am not sure what might be the problem there (especially if it works OK on XP, on the same machine). Have you tried different sync methods (in the kX ASIO Control Panel)? Have you tried disabling things like Cool n Quiet, to see if it makes any difference?

As for the kX speaker test, it uses DirectSound3D.... That is why it does not work in Vista/7.

You might want to take a look at this thread too:
3550 bugs revealed

Caithleann

Hi Russ.

Nothing at all is connected to any internal audio card connector, I use the 4 connectors of the Live! only.

Interestingly, I had never tried the different syncs and was in fact quite oblivious of them. Thanks for the tip I shall try that out today.

I reinstalled 3551 and for some reason I get sound from Winamp but I am unable to get anything out of the browsers now. After seeing Eugene's question if we are now getting multi-channel sound I must wonder if it comes in on a different bus and if so, which one? How do I find out on which bus a browser's or any sound is supposed to come in?
It is relatively easy with a simple DSP but with the default DSP it becomes a little more complex. Any pointers?

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Caithleann

One other thing I really need to ask is why the volume levels are set at an annoyingly loud 100% when a new DSP preset or the default preset is loaded or when one resets a thing like the mixer?
Together with the existing levels on a DAW or on WinAmp that really "whips the lama's Ass" when that happens and I don't live in a concrete bunker but in an Apartment with easily aggravated neighbors. Can we get by with the faders set to 50%, Eugene? Even if only to save us from having to buy new speakers every other day?

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Russ

Hehe, I think the problem with the volume is that kX does not update plugins with the current master volume when loading plugins (that use it), etc.

e.g.
If you reinitialize the DSP, the Master Volume level in kxmixer and the Windows mixer does not change, the problem is that epilog does not seem to get notified of the current volume and uses it's default value (full volume). I usually just (immediately) hit the volume multimedia keys on my keyboard (once up/once down) to force it to sync, whenever I reinitialize the DSP, etc. I noticed the same problem when I made my Master Volume and LMVol plugins and added code to try and force it to sync, etc.

As for the web browser... It is hard to say as again I do not have Windows 7. Web browsers use different plugins or codecs to play different media types, etc, and some of these plugins may have their own configuration settings for audio, etc... otherwise it should use whichever device is set as the Windows default. Also there is the routing issue with Master Mixer, which makes it hard to say what bus (stereo) audio might use. Note: Multi-channel audio (with Master Mixer) should use use FxBus 2/3 (for front), 4/5 (for rear), and 6/7 (for Center/LFE).

Since you also have an XP installation, you might test with that, so you can get an idea of how things are supposed to work (as far as routing goes, etc).

Caithleann

Thank you Russ, you are a gold mine. I wish I had had the time to ask all these questions sooner but I was doing college most of the past 5 years and missed out on a lot of great stuff, especially the Sonar manual by Thomas Barnes... Grr.

You got me! Are there shortcuts that I am completely unaware of? Where, oh where might they be? Which key is the volume key? Show me, show me
I love keyboard shortcuts but somehow I have never found them for kX, Something that did bother me a great deal. So, if they do exist then how come I never saw any menu item with their presence clearly marked?


• I noticed that David_Scream is having a lot of issues with crackling outputs. I am also experiencing that, it effectively renders the sound card useless if not fixed. I recorded the offensive noise and then took screenshots of three of those occurrences. It sounds like a sudden, very brief, just 1 cycle, partial absence of sound that produces that effect. I have uploaded a file that you can study, It contains an MP3 of 15 seconds and 3 small images showing the waveform distinctly "destroyed." I hope this is helpful.

http://ifile.it/tm8ak9p/crackles%2Bimg.rar (sound file and 3 image files) about 311 Kb.

images only:
Crackle 1
Crackle 2
Crackle 3

I do not have to wait to reproduce this when the machine is hot, loud transients like the kickdrum of Trance Music will trigger it.

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Caithleann

Further messing around with this crackling stuff gives me the impression that it is related to the same phenomenon that caused the outputs to emit a very high tone at random intervals a few years ago. I think at the time it had something to do with hyperthreading.

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Russ

I mean the volume keys on my multimedia keyboard, it is possible that your keyboard does not have these keys. However, if there are keys on your keyboard that you do not use, I suppose you could use a keyboard remapping programming (e.g. RandyRants: SharpKeys 2.1.1) to turn those keys into volume keys.

As for the crackling, I imagine that is the same issue that most people are having with Master Mixer on Vista/7, no? Again, I do not have Vista/7, so I have no experience with trying to resolve that issue. The only advice I can give is to try (as suggested) to change the buffer sizes, or use one of the other wave devices, if possible. Beyond that you could try disabling things like hyperthreading and CPU throttling, etc, and see if it makes any difference. I would also unload any plugins in the DSP that use xTRAM (Reverb, etc), and see if that makes a difference. Beyond that, I do not know....

Caithleann

belated response... Thanks Russ. What about Eugene, does he have any input on this breaking up of the audio? I loath having to cripple my CPU by turning hyper threading off, it is already slow as crap and doing so effectively renders my machine a Pentium 3 computer and I won't be able to use DAWs anymore, especially the CPU hungry Reason software. What was wrong with the way windows XP rendered audio that prompted Microsoft to change it in Windows Vista/7?

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Russ

I do not know, other than what he has posted in the forum...

What's up with Audio in Windows Vista? - Larry Osterman's WebLog - Site Home - MSDN Blogs
Windows Audio Quality Enhancements - Larry Osterman's WebLog - Site Home - MSDN Blogs
New Audio APIs for Vista - Larry Osterman's WebLog - Site Home - MSDN Blogs
Audio in Vista, the big picture - Larry Osterman's WebLog - Site Home - MSDN Blogs