flyingv999

hi,

first, let me thank you for your great work! I installed the package and was very impressed by the versability ond options.
however, as the concept of the kx mixer , dirvers etc. seem to be pretty close to the concept of the hardware,
it was not clear to me where the actual benefit in comparison to the creative drivers are.

I am computer and music experienced since decade (bought my aplle ][ in 1984) have programmed in many languages and
could install and tweak every software I ever tried.

However, I was unable to find and answer to the following:

- Features (and how do I benefit from them) added through KX affter deinstalling Creative drivers
- Features (and how do I suffer) removed through KX affter deinstalling Creative drivers
- Which features of Creative's software cannot be used after installing KX

I got used to mediasource - does it still work w/ KX incl.
- EAX (or equivalent effects - perhaps to be configured in another application)
- time scaling

If I have to dump MediaSource - which app should I use instead?

My card is Audigy Platinum Ex and SBLive! 1024 Player

I had issues with Soundfonts and Synth configuration in Cubase SX when I used KX

Perhaps a side-by-side feature-list table would help to figure out what is and is not possible w/ creative and kx



My suggestion: You invest so much time into the project, but the number of people who could benefit would be much greater,
if all the above would be described (or the information easy to access)


Regards,
Tom

Lex Nahumury

Hi Tom,

Don't take this the wrong way, but 99% of your questions already have been asked
over and over again. You can find most answers at KX homepage, the FAQ, Help files etc. and on this forum.

>>I am computer and music experienced since decade (bought my aplle ][ in 1984) have
>>programmed in many languages and could install and tweak every software I ever tried.

Then you really should have no problem finding solutions/answers regarding KX.
(no punt intended)

>>My suggestion: You invest so much time into the project, but the number of people whou could benefit
>>would be much greater, if all the above would be described (or the information easy to access)

Nice suggestion of course. But consider that;
1. Kx drivers are for FREE
2. The available 'man power' at KX Development is about 1.25..!!!

So, you will understand that the actual Kx Developer(s) really have no time to do this,
and/or answer the same questions over and over again.
To ease the burden, sometimes skilled and willing Kx users contribute in answering 'newbie' questions.

Again; dont take this the wrong way, but most of your Q's can be easly found.

Regards,

/LeMury

Pseudo Psy

Advantages of KX drivers vs. Creative drivers according to the FAQ:

general advantages


smaller download / software takes up less space on disk
mixer is skinnable
API is open -- SDK, documentation and sample code available for download
skilled users can write their own effects and plugins
open API allows development of custom mixers and other software applications
better functionality

better DSP support [hardware-accelerated custom sound effects]
virtually unlimited signal routing possibilities
complete and flexible control over hardware (without artificially imposed limitations)
direct uninterpolated SPDIF recording from Optical, Coaxial and CDSPDIF sources
better ASIO support

ASIO is supported for all the 10k1 & 10k2-based boards
ASIO v2 based hosts are fully supported
better MIDI support

kX VSTi and kX Control provide MIDI-based control of DSP effects
extended MIDI CC support
both SoundFont 2.01 & AWE NRPN support

Pseudo Psy

As for disadvantages, I would say a steeper learning curve, and alpha 3d audio support, lack of EAX, and this will matter to you only if you're a gamer.

But for musicians! The better sound qualityASIO and GISF support, PLENTY of routings schemes you would not be ever dreaming of doing with the creative drivers, the possibility of augmenting the interface yourself with your own effects or effect written by others, the midi and VSTi automation, gasp, no reasons to stay with Creative!

flyingv999

Thanks for your answer.

I have read all FAQs on the site before I have posted this Q.

So I understand the technical advandages of the drivers.

But how do i benefit from the features which are listed on the site and
in your postings?

I have installed the KX pack, was impressed by it's routing window.

Found the Mixer less intuitive than creative's.
Had lost soundfonts and EAX.
Latency in Cubase is fine with the creative drivers IMHO anyway.

So my question was basically, for what applications is KX beneficial?

What am I missing without it? (thinking about my day to day usage)
I am looking for statements like "Sound is better overall", "Synth can handle more soundfonts",
"Cubase can now address 17 separate Synths" or "instead playback 3 tracks with acceptable latency, you now can play 19".
"The mixer looks better", "The routing is important because... (why-by the way?)"

I'm just be missing something. I know, perhaps it't because I am not native English?
Thank you for your patience.

Please take this as a friendly suggestion to add some benefit statements to the documentation
(I would be willing to write them, if I only understand and benefit over the currently installed Creative stuff)

Thanks again,
Tom

flyingv999

Thanks for listening.
Tom

northstah

Isn't there actually a better Soundquality with the KX Drivers..? If you only use one Stereo Output you can swap (Default when you install the drivers) the FRONT/REAR Outputs, and since the REAR Out uses the I2S for DAC it's soundquality IS better than the quality of the FRONT Outs, which uses the AC97 for DAC...
Well, since I use 4 Outputs and another SBLive for DAC that benefit doesn't really apply to me, but when I first installed the KX Drivers I heard it, the Soundquality from the I2S is actually better than the AC97's !

I think with the CL Drivers it'S not possible to use the Rear out usefull is it ?

Another benefit is that you are able to use all Digital Outs of your Soundcard, without the LiveDrive (if you use another Soundcard for DAC) and you are able to install more than one SBLive! in the same system, which wasn't possible with Creative Labs Drivers ! (I tried it several times and never got it to work...).

Then there is ASIO which, in my case, works A WHOLE LOT BETTER with KX than the original ASIO Drivers from CL !!! I knoe have a latency of 5.3 ms (or something, anyway it's nearly realtime...)

And then this freaky DSP thing... you can route any input to any output, use different effects and so on... This was also not possible with the CreativeLabs drivers (I believe...).

I think there are many advantages of the KX Drivers compared to the original CreativeLabs Drivers !

Of course you don't have the EAX Effects anymore, but for music, these where not so good at all...

NorthStah

__________________
My PC:
AMD AthlonXP 2000+; 512 MB DDR-Ram; 60GB HD 7200Upm; 40GB HD 7200Upm; SBlive! Player1024 (model: 4760); SBLive! Value (Model: 4832); CubaseSX (Ver. 1.06.78); Wavelab4;...

My Hardware:
Behringer Eurorack MX2642A; E-MU ESI4000, Turbo-Option-Kit, 32MB Ram, Internal ZIP100; ALESIS MIDIVERB2; AKAI S1100, 32MB Ram, ext. CD-Rom;...

flyingv999

You are the man !

YES! This is what I am looking for!

How people use the drivers in.

Do you know whether one can use an SBLive! and an Audigy in one system at the same time with KX?
(I could not get it to fly w/ the original dirvers).

Why do YOU use 2 cards?

I have thought about having more synths in my system for specific soundfonts like piano, drums, guitar and bass
for example.

Another q: I used EAX reverb, delay, chorus, flanger, distortion and "transposing" (don't know what it is in English)
for playing back single tracks or shifting songs to another key on the fly.
Can I do this with KX as well? I can live without EAX for Games but would like to keep real-time effects.

Thanks again for the answer (perhaps that should be different FAQ topics: technical features, benefits for the user)

Regards
Tom

northstah

With original CreativeLabs Drivers you can try to get two cards to work, they wil never work together...

The KX Driver allows you to use as many cards as you can put in your PC, doesn't matter if it's an SBLive Value, Gold, Player or an Audigy "whatever"... every EMU10K1 and 10K2 Chip is supported !

I personally use two crads to get 4 independant Stereo Outputs for mixing Vocals on my Behringer MX2642 Hardware Mixer, I do not use any soft-synths or Soundfonts, because I have a Sampler (EMU ESI4000 Turbo), therefore I can't tell you anything about if it works with SoftSynths...

I got the two cards working only 2 Days ago... there is some Topic in this Forum where I found out how two configure my SBLives to get them working in Cubase SX follow the Link:

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/showthre...threadid=25345

Well, you have to understand, that the cards will never be synchronized, because of different Clock-Sources... But you can use 4 Analog Outputs... with some digital Connections...

I use the two cards as follows:

Card one: SBLive Value (CT4832) -> ALL AUDIO OUTPUTS FROM CUBASE GO INTO THIS CARD!!!
...EVERY SBLIVE! CARD HAS AT LEAST 4 STEREO OUTPUTS... TWO OF THEM ARE ANALOG, THE REST IS DIGITAL!

Cubase sends the audiotracks to these four (2 Analog, 2 Digital) Outputs... Therefore Cubase only uses ONE Card for Audiotracks!!!
The Second Soundcard (SBLIVE Player1024, Model CT4760) only converts the DIGITAL OUTPUTS of the first card to ANALOG SIGNALS and plays them through it's ANALOG OUTPUTS !!!

To do this you have to connect the two cards with DIGITAL CABLES INTERNALLY !!!
Here's a Link, where you can find the PINs of the AUD_EXT Connector on the SBLive! Cards: http://alive.singnet.com.sg/musician/aps-rewiring/

You have to connect one Digital OUTPUT of the first Crad (for example PIN 17&18) to a Analog INPUT on the second card (I use the "DIGITAL CD INPUT").
Then you can configure the DSP of the KX Drivers... I find it not easy, but it actually IS possible...
On the first card an audio-output of the "XROUTING" has to be connected with the Digital out on the "EPILOG"...
On the other Card the Digital Input on the"PROLOG" has to be connected to the ANALOG FRONT on the "EPILOG"...
Somehow it works... In Cubase you have to activate the VST Outputs and select the right KX Outs...


The EAX Effects will not be available... but some other effects, even selfprogrammed... but I can't tell you much about that, because I don't use them, I have Hardware Reverb and Delay, and use Cubase Plug-Ins for compressing... that's all I need...

If you have more questions just ask... (I'm not the perfect man for this, but I'll try to answer as good as I can )

NorthStah

__________________
My PC:
AMD AthlonXP 2000+; 512 MB DDR-Ram; 60GB HD 7200Upm; 40GB HD 7200Upm; SBlive! Player1024 (model: 4760); SBLive! Value (Model: 4832); CubaseSX (Ver. 1.06.78); Wavelab4;...

My Hardware:
Behringer Eurorack MX2642A; E-MU ESI4000, Turbo-Option-Kit, 32MB Ram, Internal ZIP100; ALESIS MIDIVERB2; AKAI S1100, 32MB Ram, ext. CD-Rom;...

Lex Nahumury

Hi Tom,

I have treid hard to make it clear that it was not my intention to put you off.
It still is, so lets see;

>>If this has been asked over and over again, it's a clear sign that people can't find the answers easily,
>>right? I am not surprised.

I'am. Since they are asked over and over again, they have been ANSWERED over and over again
right here at this forum were you can find them. (if you search for them)

>>Please think about your logic... ;-) (no pun intended)
>>How can it be easy if people ask this so often?

My logic tells me that most ppl are just plain lazy..!!

>>I am willing to write this up. This makes 1.3 now. What do you think?

Very good idea. Really!
After you have finished that, you will be amazed (as I'am right now)
how many ppl will still keep asking the same Q's with the same arguments.


>>Again; dont take this the wrong way, but most of your Q's can be easly found.
>>Where? - And please don't say in the FAQs. If I could derive it from there I would not ask.

How about right-clicking on > Systray > Kx Icon > Help..!!!!
About 80% can be found right there (amongst various other places).

Btw; about 2 users have already answered/posted to your Q's.
Where do you think they have retrieved their information from?
Out of 'thin air'?

Now lets have a look at one of your latest Q's:
I am looking for statements like "Sound is better overall", "Synth can handle more soundfonts",
"Cubase can now address 17 separate Synths" or "instead playback 3 tracks with acceptable latency, you now can play 19".
"The mixer looks better", "The routing is important because... (why-by the way?)"

Hmm..such simple (false) Statements are usualy printed on the box of a commercial product
meant for the ignorant and simple minded user/buyer.
This doesn't apply to Kx drivers so dont expect to much of this kind of retoric from Kx developers.

Ok, before you get the feeling I'm trying to put you off;

The Kx driver Package offers HUGE expanded capabilities and possabilies in comparison to CL drivers.
Because of this, Kx has a much steeper learning curve, hence, no matter how many help files we make,
the average potential new Kx user will probably never fully understand it's concept unless he/she
actualy starts using it and find out themselfs.
It's like having the same VCR. One version has 20 user functions, the other just Play/Rec buttons.
Still, under the hood, it's the same VCR.

Making statements in terms of 'wich is better' is often subjective and makes no sense.

E.g.:
- Kx doesn't offer better sound quallity than CL simply because the same hardware (A/D, D/A) is used.
- Synth doesn't handel more SF's simply because it's limited by the EMU10kx chips arcitecture.
- When does a mixer 'looks' better? That is subjective.
- ASIO support and performance are widely reported to be much better then CL's.
- The KX Routing and DSP capabilities are far superiour to CL's,
(you can even write your own effects in the DSP, or use new effects written by others)
but, beeing a bless to most users, it can be a curse to others.
(See DSP/Effect section on this forum)
Btw; You can find everything about 'Routing' in: > Systray > Kx Icon > HELP.
- Kx supports multiple (EMU10kx-based) soundcards.
- Kx doesn't (yet) support EAX/3D and gaming stuff as CL does.
This is under development (as you can read 'everywhere'..)
etc. etc. etc....

Just start using the drivers, experiment and draw your own conlusions.

Well, other users can fill in the gaps or correct errors if they feel up to.
In the mean time I still haven't read or wrote anything new that can not be found on this forum or elsewhere.

Regards,

/LeMury

flyingv999

LeMury,
Thank you very much for writing all this.
I never had the idea that you would put me off. Exactly the opposite.
I appreciate the time you spent writing this. So obviously you try to help me.

However, it looks as you can't get your point across to users like me.

The reason is simple (just to let you understand):
You have the experience and the knowledge I lack today.
That's why I asked initially. (BTW: after I tried to locate the required
knowledge on the KX driver site and here in the forum)

Let's take the asio example:
My question is basically "How do I benefit?"
Most of the time I read "Lower latency".

Unfortunatley this is ananswer to another question!
A possible question for this answer would be:
"What is an advantage of KX over Creative"

I have relatively powerful P4 system and I never had
an latency issue w/ creative drivers.

What I tried to ask for is still benefit (and that't basically "advantage in context")

Example:
"How do I benefit?"
"If you had a slow system, the lower latency gives you sync in Software like Cubase.
Without a lower latency you have to spend much time to align multi-track songs,
or it might be impossible to put them together anyway"

Let me give you another example of features/advantages vs. benefits:
Some years ago a software company advertised a new spreadsheet software like this:
"1000 great new features in our program"
My first impression was "Shit, I can't upgrade, because I will not be able to use this monster.
Or I will waste time learning irrelavnt stuff"

Then someone told me "This thing has automatic consolidation"

I asked "... how do you benefit?"

He said: "I can now consolidate 25 sales-forecasts with one press of a button"
I then upgraded and saved hours of work every week.
Because I - as a sales-manager - did cut and paste from my sales guy's weekly sheets.

Perhaps I should have asked: "How are you now making better music..., how do you save time...,
why does your music sound better... ...now that you use KX"

Obviously this can't be answered with "...lower latency".

I hope my words were clear enough to explain that I am looking for your knowledge and experience
after having read the information on the website.

Sorry, if I have not yet found the right words. And thanks for reading all this.

Regards,
Tom

flyingv999

Very helpful. Thank you very much !
Tom





...........................

Lex Nahumury

Hi Tom,

I think I understand your point of view.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

What you "propose" is a full 'side by side' comparison between Kx and CL drivers.
This comparison will then reviele differences.
These differences then have to be judged wether they are 'pros' or 'cons'.
(this is tricky because it's subjective)
Then these "pros" have to be closely examined if they benefit:
-in what way
-to who
-under what conditions
-with what DAW software
-with what PC config
-with what OS
etc. etc...and finaly;
-how much benefit (for all the above categories)!!!

Then one has to digest/summerize all this and document it.

You will agree that this is one hell of a job to do.
It involves;
-having extended knowledge of Audio tech in general
-having extended knowledge of PC tech in general
-having extended knowledge in programming
-having extended knowledge of Kx drivers and CL drivers as well
-having extended knowledge about every DAW Software package
-interviewing about 500 test subjects
-beeing capable of seperating facts from fiction. ie. beeing objective!

Such research is done by $$$ corporations and 'tailored' to
their marketing advantages.

The Kx Development Team simply hasn't the time, means(money) and manpower to do this!
(That is where the Kx Community (like this forum) comes in)

So yes, from that point of view, and in this context, Kx "lacks" "Full documentation"

Another obvious reason why this is very hard to accomplish:
No sensable commercial corporation would make one product so versatile
that they won't sell their "new" products.
I.e. they artificialy limit it's possabilities.
Kx, on the other hand, does the opposite;
Expanding possabilities on a peace of "obsolete" hardware (SBLive).
This is quite unique, not to say genius and unheard of in PC world.
You will agree that writing good documentation for a product with limited
capabilities is far more easy then for the same product with all limitations removed like Kx.
(see my analogy with the VCR in my previous post)

To conclude all this;
-Writing 'Full Documentation' for the KX-driver Package, providing information
the way you propose, takes a huge amount of time/manpower/resources we simply don't have.

-Such initiative/contribution should come from the Kx Community.
Sadly enough there are always more 'consumers' then 'contributors'.

So, I'm sorry to report that the kind of documentation you would like to see
will most likely never be written. (at least not in the near feature)

In the mean time;
We just have to make do with the available docs, our own efforts and the willingness of
users to share their knowledge with each other. No doubt you will become one of them.

Best Regards,

/LeMury

P.S:
Basicly what I'm trying to say with all this, is that it's almost impossable to determin uniform benefits.

Eugene Gavrilov

Tom,

probably you should have asked not about the 'advantages', but a different question: 'kX users, how are you using the kX Driver? what have you achieved?' and compare the answers with your present possibilities and Creative driver features.

/E

thomasabarnes

This is truely a remarkable thread for people curious about using The KX Project driver with their kX-Compatible soundcard! In this thread lies the answer of what are the benefits and advantages of using the kx drivers rather than the Creative Labs drivers. As said, the advantages and benefits may differ for each user as each user has a different system and configuration, but a person should be able to see the possibile benefits and advantages by reading this thread!

LeMury, it seems to me this thread itself is a form of documentation of the possible advantages and benefits of using the KX driver! NorthStah and LeMury, Thanks for sharing your knowledge, experiences, and observations. And Mr Eugene Gavrilov, your presence here at the end of this thread just placed the icing on the cake. And may the KX Community keep making posts with help for others! Because just like this thread, your posts can truely be helpful!

Eugene Gavrilov

perhaps we should start a new thread dealing with 'PROs and CONTRAs'
without long theoretical discussions about 'how to measure utility?'

for instance:
* I can use both cards (Audigy2Plat.Ex + E-mu APS) with the same driver set
(Creative drivers cannot handle that correctly. installing two different driver sets is a bad idea)
* it saves me memory & gives me all the stuff I cannot control why dealing with Creative drivers
(such as signal flow, swap front & rear feature; ASIO, GSIF)
* without any marketing 'tricks', I know exactly what is the real output capability of the card
(when using Creative drivers with Audigy2-based boards, it is impossible to guess the exact audio quality for particular audio application)
* I can assign any effect to any signal and mix it the way I wish
(rather difficult if ever possible with Creative drivers)
* I can record CD SPDIF signal (44.1) without interpolation via 'Direct SPDIF recording'
(impossible with CL drivers)
* I can avoid using any third-party software dealing with my multimedia keyboard as well as remote IR
(saves a lot of memory)

however:
* there's no EAX in games
* some games fail to produce good audio -- but we can always use software 3-D (as well as Miles libraries)
* soundfont size is limited -- but we can always use Soft synths with ASIO 2ms latency, can't we?

/Eugene

flyingv999

Eugene, thanks for giving a couple of benefit examples .

'kX users, how are you using the kX Driver? what have you achieved?'

This is exactly the knowledge I am looking for.

I should have asked for that initially.

Well, perhaps I think to complicated for the real world...? ;-)



How are you using the kX Driver? What have you achieved? What have you lost over Creative's drivers?

For example: I have understood how 'routing' works technically, but why do YOU use it?

Thanks
Tom

K.I.L.E.R

'kX users, how are you using the kX Driver? what have you achieved?'

1. (Not exactly sure what you meant by "how" am I using it)
I'm using them with stero speakers with a subwoofer. I'm using Altec Lansing speakers and sub, awesome quality sound. Sharp, loud and never distorts (even with Creative's drivers).

2.
I have achieved an increase in framerate by at least 5fps in non CPU limited areas.

All sounds have become better in general; games and Windows.
I believe kx makes them clearer; that could be because of the ways kX sets up the settings like bass, treble, timbre etc.

Lack of 3d sound isn't an issue at all for me, mostly because I use stereo speakers.

The driver size is EXTREMELY good, even though I have broadband cable with no speed limit, I always HATE downloading drivers (for my soundcard in this instance) that are 20MB+.

Stability of these drivers is far better than Creative's.

kX drivers get updated frequently. Updates can include new features, bug fixes, etc...

kX drivers have absolutely no bugs in my experience.

Other than listening to music and playing games I haven't done anything else on my PC that involves sound.
I'm no musician.

__________________
P4 1.8Ghz
Intel i845 mobo
R300
768mb RAM
SBLive
Windows XP Home

Lex Nahumury

>>I have understood how 'routing' works technically, but why do YOU use it?

Why do we want to ROUTE?

Imagine you have a REAL 19" Rack filled with:
- Mixer console
- Reverb Unit
- 1 or more Synths/modules
- another Effect Unit
- compressors
- a PC or harddisk recorder
- a Sampler
etc..etc.

Now you buy all that stuff, but... at the store they pre-patch (=ROUTING) all the cable wiring for you
without asking your opinion.
Then on top of that, they solder all these cables tight so you can't unplug/re-plug any cable.
I.e. you can not RE-ROUTE anything.
Only thing you can do is change the amount of some effects and some volume levels.

No sensible musician (or anybody for that matter) would accept that.
(You are a musician right?)
Still with me...?

Ok,..now your SBlive/APS/Audigy card is in fact that 19" Rack filled with all that nice stuff.
But, at Creative store they did that 'nasty' thing I just described.
(and worse, they left 80% of the effects out)
I.e. You can NOT RE-ROUTE anything. ( a few useless options aside)

Again:
Your SBlive/APS/Audigy card houses a complete $$$$ 19" Rack with Mixers, Effect Units, Synths etc. etc. in HARDWARE right in you PC
(and more)


Now wouldn't you like to be able to patch things the way you want?
Or do you rather let other ppl decide wich cable plugs into what effect?

Well, Kx drivers offers the ability to patch (=ROUTE) anything to anywere!

Just look at your card as that 19" Effect Rack.
So you can plug in a mic, guitar or synth and ROUTE it through as many (free) effects you want
and record it in Real Time!
Or you can playback a ASIO audio stream or a WINMM audio signal and ROUTE it through anything
to anywere and record it back all in the Digital Domain.

Well, the possabilities are endless, but in general;
Musicians/producers/DJs like to ROUTE things..!!!
at least..in a non-complex real world that is..

Regards,

/LeMury

flyingv999

LeMury,

Thanks for clarifying the effects aspect!!!

I am familiar with effects-chains. So clearly I use routing on a daily basis.

The effects you are referring to is what I needed to understand!

I was unter the impression that with KX I would lack EAX and therfore loose all these effects.

From what I read in your post the flexibilty regarding effects is better with KX.

This will most probably be the reason to dump Creative drvs now.

However specifically I liked the "time stretching" for practising solo guitar stuff.

Is there a "replacement" in KX, or can I even still use it from Creative's Player app?

Thanks
Tom

Samir

flyingv999,

Had you actually TRIED kX? Man, all this talking is useless... Just try it and you'll know all cons & pros & whatever you would like to know...
Once you've tried kX you'll never go back!

suerte!

flyingv999

Indeed I have tried it.

The only thing I noticed was the soundfonts would not work with cubase properly.
Many people confirmed the problem in forums I searched for a solution and
the only suggestion was to install a certain .DLL from I don't know which release,
but nobody really knew...

This seemed too much of a hassle to trail'n'error several dll-files for no obvious benefit. So I moved back to creative and asked why I should consider KX despite the trouble...

But thanks for asking. If it works nice for you, I understand that this topic is "kind of strange".

Regards,
Tom

kokoon

no time-scaling effects are implemented yet, there are many thechnical diffilcuties to be dealt with when writing such complex effects (see threads regarding this subject in fx section)

yes, the effecting abilities ARE BY FAR BETTER with kX drivers. but ofcourse not only that. the thing that does it for me is really the infinite routing possibilities. i recently installed the 3rd 10k1 card in my system and hooked it all up to my alesis studio 24 recording console/mixer for multitrack asio recording /simultaneous synthesizing. there are many hardware limitations present, but still it can all be sorted out. you can have more than 8 mono analog inputs routed to asio, you can chain the effects just the way YOU want it (as LeMury put it so well).

BUT all of us that are really satisfied with the kX driver probaby found it because we needed some specific features the creative drivers couldnt offer to us. probably only few stumbled over the kX and thought it was neat and are using it now.

so - if you know why you need your soundcard for AND IF YOU FEEL THAT CREATIVE DRIVER CANT OFFER YOU WHAT YOU NEED THE SOUNDCARD FOR, then ask here if the kX has the features you're missing with the original creative driver. if it has, then bingo and praise the kX team.

for me, its really a godsent utility, i've literaly been dreaming about such stuff being possible with the "little" sb Live cards. i spend many days just playing with the kX and discovering the creative possibilities it opens for me as a composer/sound engineer.

but if youre just satisfied with the creative driver, then stick with it, i guess.

(i wont mention that i have never even seen the creative drivers, because most of the stuff i wrote above wont make sense )

__________________
[kokoon]

Lex Nahumury

Tom,

>>The effects you are referring to is what I needed to understand!
>>I was unter the impression that with KX I would lack EAX and therfore loose all these effects.

No, EAX is just a name for Creative's own implementation regarding a standard for 'Enviroment effects'
primarely used in and for Games & Entertainment.
Therefore it is limited to and geared towards that purpose.
It has little or nothing to do with 'Musical Instrument Effects' known to and used by musicians.

>>From what I read in your post the flexibilty regarding effects is better with KX.

Not only that. You have access to much more and better quality Effects specialy geared
towards musicians/sound engineers. Kx ships standard with about ~20 effects.
On top of that you can add/load new effects updated by KX Development Team or
written by other people. ( see Effects and DSP section of forum)
Don't miss Max.M's UFX package. It contains one of the best Reverbs I've ever heard
and other High Quality effects.
(At Kx we refer to 'effects' as 'DSP Plugins' because that's what they are)


>>However specifically I liked the "time stretching" for practising solo guitar stuff.
>>Is there a "replacement" in KX, or can I even still use it from Creative's Player app?

No, you cant use Creative app for this.
As an alternative you can use a wave editor or some standalone app for this
untill we figured out our own Time stretcher. See Kokoon's post!


>>The only thing I noticed was the soundfonts would not work with cubase properly.
>>Many people confirmed the problem in forums I searched for a solution and
>>the only suggestion was to install a certain .DLL from I don't know which release,
>>but nobody really knew...

I'm not sure about the current status regarding Soundfonts/Cubase (SX?).
A lot has been written on the subject (see forum). And a lot has changed.
In general; Cubase SX is known to have problems in loading Soundfonts properly.
This is not entirely Kx related!!!
Other KX/Cubase Power users may know exactly.
Personaly, I can use Soundfonts in SX. Only the bank loading takes some tricks.
(can't remember from head right now)

Regards,

/LeMury

flyingv999

LeMury, kokoon,

thank you very much. Your posts are really very helpful.
I would love to have the variety of effects of KX plus routing / effect chain but currenly Cubase w/ softfonts is my highest priority.
So I can't go to KX because of Cubase.

Is Cubase the only application which has problems with the KX implementation of soundfonts?

Soundfonts in SX. Only the bank loading takes some tricks.
I'd love to find the tricks. Then I would switch to KX.

I have done time stretching in an editor, but it is obviously very handy to have the capability "on the fly".

'Enviroment effects'
primarely used in and for Games & Entertainment.
Therefore it is limited to and geared towards that purpose.

Then thename EAX console is kind of misleading. I have used it for real time music effects (never played a game).

...Soundfonts/Cubase (SX?). A lot has been written on the subject (see forum).
Yes, a couple of weeks ago I spent significant time trying to understand how to make it work - unfortunately to no avail.

I'll continue to peek into the posts of this forum from time to time, perhaps a little guide shows up how to set-up KX w/ Cubase.

Anyway, continue to be happy using KX and all it's benefits. I'll continue to looking forward to it and enjoying it at a later time, as my use of my soundcard seems to be a bit different to yours.


You all do a great job helping me to find the right direction. Thank you very much.


Regards,
Tom

Lex Nahumury

Hi Tom,

>>Is Cubase the only application which has problems with the KX implementation of soundfonts?

Looks that way, because Cakewalk Pro9 and Sonar Soundfont support works perfect with KX drivers.
But like I said; it's not entirly a Kx issue.
One only has to look at Cubase related forums to see how many probs SX has with soundfonts in general.
It has something to do with bank and patch numbering. (Can't remember)

>>I have done time stretching in an editor, but it is obviously very handy to have the capability "on the fly".

Yep, you lose some, you win some..

>>Then thename EAX console is kind of misleading.
>>I have used it for real time music effects (never played a game).

That would be; 1 lame chorus, 1 lame reverb, and some other toy crap.
And (if memory serves me right) you can't even use more then ~3 of them the same time,
you can't route them, and only 2 can be assigned to midi controlers. Duhh..!

But Ok, I really understand.
Proper Soundfont support in Cubase could be a good reason not to use Kx.
I did exactly the opposite; I switched back to Cakewalk for the Soundfonts.
Can you imagine that?
Loosing most of the the VST(i) goodies and ASIO benefits.
Well, since most VSTi's are Dance&Trance related it's not such a big los to me since I make
more 'contemporary' music with lot's of vocals/recording and "normal" instruments.

No, the real power of Kx lies in the DSP. It's like having $$$ of outboard gear
and I can do with it whatever I want and as I see fit.

"I lost some,..I won more"!!!!

Best of luck,

/LeMury

calinb

I'm using the KX Drivers in my HTPC for the sound recording part of my PVR. No other card in this price range provides me with the direct recording capability of the Dolby Digital stream (via SPDIF-in) from my Satellite TV receiver. The Creative drivers choke on the SCMS bits polluting the dish AC3 stream, ha ha ha ! I was considering buying a "professional" soundcard until I found KX

flyingv999

LeMury,

You ignited a little spark of thought with your post...

Do you know whether it's possible to use the creative driver w/ an Audigy
and have a "LIVE!" driven by KX?

This would give me best of both worlds... ?




Thanks
Tom

Lex Nahumury

Tom,

To be honest; I don't know.
But I'm not sure. I remember someone on this forum treid or did that.
I think it was Daniel Drummond.

I think the Kx drivers won't give you any trouble with that,
but I don't know about CL drivers.

If it is possable, keep in mind that there are some restrictions because no two cards
run exactly at the same Crystal (X-tal) clock.
(see forum on usage with 2 cards on kX drivers)

Anyway;
I'm shure someone else can clear this up.

/LeMury

Daniel Drummond

flyngv999, yes it's possible. I used to do that so I could play games with EAX (thorugh one of the cards) and record music with the other. I also connected both cards digitally (internally) so I could get 2 extra inputs in Cubase. But to tell it the truth, it's not really worth the effort. Games in KX sound just fine in my opinion. EAX is not that important....

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