Correct PCI settings 4 Emu10Kx

vikflash · Sep 18, 2003, 12:12 PM

Hi
Under Win98SE or Win XP, assuming we can tweak PCI latency for all PCI device with soft like Powerstrip
What would be correct settings for WinXP or Win98SE, 10K1 and 10k2 for an actual machine
I mean I have asus A7n8x deluxe, Athlon XP 2600+, 256Mo Ram 333 X2=512 with SB060 and SB092

Thanks for any advice

K.I.L.E.R · Sep 19, 2003, 08:52 AM

I do that through my BIOS. Check your BIOS first.

**Eugene Gavrilov** · Sep 19, 2003, 03:36 PM

the best choice would be to install Creative drivers, check the latency, re-install kX and set the latency

/E

vikflash · Sep 20, 2003, 06:54 AM

Hi

It is not so simple

Because I got one machine win98se Powerstrip and creative drivers

1- Motherboard asus P2B with PCI latency timer in bios set to 128

So Powerstrip reports all devices at 128 (priority to bios latency timer)

2- Motherboard asus a7n8x2Deluxe with no PCI latency timer in bios

Powerstrip reports all devices with different timings
128 for ati radeon 32 creative audio device and 64 for realtek ethernet adapter

One or two years ago I read somewhere (maybe steinberg recommandations) to increase soundcard latency to 128 to avoid glitches and crackles. but today's cpu and PCI bus may be don't need such big value

I tried different settings without noticing specific difference. I can say It's somewhere between 32 and 128 but I knew this when I started this thread. Would someone have better informations for w98, wxp, sblive and audigy?

Thanks for all
VikFlash

Kyle70 · Sep 24, 2003, 07:15 AM

Do you have pops with your Asus board? I guess that's why you're asking about PCI latency.
I have pops with my nForce2 board when playing/recording audio files, playing CD's with WMP in digital mode (DAE), using soundfonts and softsynths. Also, when playing MIDI files with SF loaded and recording them to audio got some crackle, not audible, but Waves X-crackle plugin detects it... With another 2 other computers like mine got the same issue (same mobo, processor, memory, hd, etc).
With my previous computer (P3 800, Asus CUBX - i440bx mobo) didn't have ONE pop or crackle.
I tried everything: all sets of drivers, APIC & no-APIC modes, disabled AGP fast writes, disabled onboard sound & lan, clean installs of WinXP + SP1, DX9, different KX latency settings, etc etc etc... still with pops. Got a bigger and best PSU (Antec TruePower 430), still with pops, and worse... got some EMI issues (solved).
Finally I heard from other users reports about pops when using ATA/133 HD from Maxtor. So I installed the "beta" nVidia IDE driver (v3.44) and set the DMA mode to ATA/100 and pops gone!
But, here comes the bad news:
- Wavelab, Sound Forge, and other programs don't work with these drivers (no DAE, troubles when burning CD's)
- the driver doesn't work well with SMART enabled... my original Maxtor drive died after a few days, SMART error at power on or reset, had to backup the data and RMA it.
Because of this and other serious driver issues, nVidia remove it from their lastest driver release (v2.45), so STAY with MS default XP driver ("on the box IDE driver", that's how nVidia calls it)
I can't understand how could affect an ATA/133 mode on a fast computer! PCI bus hog, maybe? It's interesting, but seems that today computers have poor PCI efficiency, no matter wich mobo/chipset or soundcard you're using. Here's a post I found on Sonar newsgroup:

My P4 2.8 tells me that my PCI Bus Efficiency is 72% and when
I start Sonar, it drops to 45%.
My old PIII 650 show 98% all the time. Hmmm.
It's caused by motherboards PCI latency (just read it somewhere?)
and I don't know what to do. Change motherboard?

Machine is:
OCTEK Rhino i865PE-A4P
+ 1500Mb DDR RAM (2 x 512Mb, 2 x 256Mb)
+ Aardvark Q10
+ Radeon 9200 64Mb
+ 2 x 120 Mb Maxtor DiamondMax+9, 7200rpm

As you can see, Maxtor drives too... but it's hard to believe that a HD causes poor PCI efficiency!
If anyone knows a fix for this, please PM me or reply here.

Kyle
PS: replacing HD's is not a fix!

vikflash · Sep 24, 2003, 10:16 PM

Hi

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Do you have pops with your Asus board?
I guess that's why you're asking about PCI latency
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=

No Only because it’s new to me to tweak PCI latency separately on each device but.....

.....I had the famous bug once when I tried to install XP in PC Standart Mode.
Everything went back fine when I reinstalled it ACPI Mode.

This bug has been long long long time discussed. "No sound or continuous beep" thread
It's still running and unresolved but fortunately it desapeared from my machine.
I'm even not sure that everybody is talking about the same thing on this thread.

May be it would be nice to make a kind of synthese of what was said in this thread cos now it is real long to read.

But what you say is interesting because nobody talked before about UDMA 133 or Maxtor specific bug or issue or poor PCI efficiency caused by hard drive

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
My P4 2.8 tells me that my PCI Bus Efficiency is 72% and when
I start Sonar, it drops to 45%.
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=

What software do you use to realtime monitor PCI efficiency?

I got two hard drives in my machine

C: Samsung UDMA 133 40Go Windows 98SE using D: for swapfile
D: Maxtor UDMA 133 6E040L0 40GO Windows XP using C: for swapfile

I did not installed the "beta" nVidia IDE driver (v3.44) but 2.45 nforce2 whql international downloaded from nvidia site . It works perfect for me under XP. But I had sound drop out (the bug) in PC standart mode with “nforce2 xpdrv1.16” in the box version from asus.
Asus said long on their site they were newer (drv1.16) than Nvidia site ones

Second thing new and interesting about what you talk about is “inaudible crackle”
Dangerous if we can't hear them
Don’t know what to say about it.
I don’t have Xcrackle . Which Waves bundle is it a part of?

Bye
Vik

Kyle70 · Sep 25, 2003, 05:42 PM

I don't know if the Maxtor ATA/133 is an issue, in fact the problems were gone when installed nVidia IDE drivers. My HD died too quickly so I couldn't did some proper testing of PCI efficiency.
The Aardvark Q10 drivers shows the PCI usage, and I don't know another tool like that to test PCI bus efficiency. But after many years using the old i440bx chipset, wich still is the best for audio workstations, I know how a PCI bus should work. In fact, even on a P2 350 did a lot of recordings/mixes without problems.
Waves X-crackle comes with Platinum Bundle, and is the only tool I know to verify if my audio takes has crackle on it.
If you want to to some testing, play a wav file or a MIDI track with a SF loaded, and record the "stereo mix" at the same time, then apply the X-crackle plugin with Sound Forge or another audio program.
Wish nVidia quickly releases their new nForce drivers with a good IDE driver...

Kyle

Sep 18, 2003, 12:12 PM	#1
vikflash HardwareHeaven Lover Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 148 Rep Power: 0	Correct PCI settings 4 Emu10Kx Hi Under Win98SE or Win XP, assuming we can tweak PCI latency for all PCI device with soft like Powerstrip What would be correct settings for WinXP or Win98SE, 10K1 and 10k2 for an actual machine I mean I have asus A7n8x deluxe, Athlon XP 2600+, 256Mo Ram 333 X2=512 with SB060 and SB092 Thanks for any advice

Sep 19, 2003, 08:52 AM	#2
K.I.L.E.R Kronos, Father of Zeus Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 162 Rep Power: 0	I do that through my BIOS. Check your BIOS first. __________________ P4 1.8Ghz Intel i845 mobo R300 768mb RAM SBLive Windows XP Home

Sep 24, 2003, 07:15 AM	#5
Kyle70 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Argentina Posts: 17 Rep Power: 0	Do you have pops with your Asus board? I guess that's why you're asking about PCI latency. I have pops with my nForce2 board when playing/recording audio files, playing CD's with WMP in digital mode (DAE), using soundfonts and softsynths. Also, when playing MIDI files with SF loaded and recording them to audio got some crackle, not audible, but Waves X-crackle plugin detects it... With another 2 other computers like mine got the same issue (same mobo, processor, memory, hd, etc). With my previous computer (P3 800, Asus CUBX - i440bx mobo) didn't have ONE pop or crackle. I tried everything: all sets of drivers, APIC & no-APIC modes, disabled AGP fast writes, disabled onboard sound & lan, clean installs of WinXP + SP1, DX9, different KX latency settings, etc etc etc... still with pops. Got a bigger and best PSU (Antec TruePower 430), still with pops, and worse... got some EMI issues (solved). Finally I heard from other users reports about pops when using ATA/133 HD from Maxtor. So I installed the "beta" nVidia IDE driver (v3.44) and set the DMA mode to ATA/100 and pops gone! But, here comes the bad news: - Wavelab, Sound Forge, and other programs don't work with these drivers (no DAE, troubles when burning CD's) - the driver doesn't work well with SMART enabled... my original Maxtor drive died after a few days, SMART error at power on or reset, had to backup the data and RMA it. Because of this and other serious driver issues, nVidia remove it from their lastest driver release (v2.45), so STAY with MS default XP driver ("on the box IDE driver", that's how nVidia calls it) I can't understand how could affect an ATA/133 mode on a fast computer! PCI bus hog, maybe? It's interesting, but seems that today computers have poor PCI efficiency, no matter wich mobo/chipset or soundcard you're using. Here's a post I found on Sonar newsgroup: My P4 2.8 tells me that my PCI Bus Efficiency is 72% and when I start Sonar, it drops to 45%. My old PIII 650 show 98% all the time. Hmmm. It's caused by motherboards PCI latency (just read it somewhere?) and I don't know what to do. Change motherboard? Machine is: OCTEK Rhino i865PE-A4P + 1500Mb DDR RAM (2 x 512Mb, 2 x 256Mb) + Aardvark Q10 + Radeon 9200 64Mb + 2 x 120 Mb Maxtor DiamondMax+9, 7200rpm As you can see, Maxtor drives too... but it's hard to believe that a HD causes poor PCI efficiency! If anyone knows a fix for this, please PM me or reply here. Kyle PS: replacing HD's is not a fix! __________________ My DAW: Athlon XP 2000+ \| MSI K7N2 Delta L \| 2x256MB DDR333 Spectek CL2.5 \| 40GB 7200 ATA/133 Maxtor HD (PM - WinXP SP1, programs, files) \| 30GB 7200RPM ATA/100 Quantum HD (PS - audio projects) \| Soyn CD-RW 52x burner (SM) \| Pioneer DVD 115-F (SS) \| Geforce4 MX 440 64MB DDR AGP 4x \| SB Live (CT4620) in PCI #3 using KX drivers! \| nForce2 onboard AC97 with Realtek drivers \| nForce2 LAN enabled \| and other stuff... Last edited by Kyle70; Sep 24, 2003 at 07:22 AM.

Sep 25, 2003, 05:42 PM	#7
Kyle70 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Argentina Posts: 17 Rep Power: 0	I don't know if the Maxtor ATA/133 is an issue, in fact the problems were gone when installed nVidia IDE drivers. My HD died too quickly so I couldn't did some proper testing of PCI efficiency. The Aardvark Q10 drivers shows the PCI usage, and I don't know another tool like that to test PCI bus efficiency. But after many years using the old i440bx chipset, wich still is the best for audio workstations, I know how a PCI bus should work. In fact, even on a P2 350 did a lot of recordings/mixes without problems. Waves X-crackle comes with Platinum Bundle, and is the only tool I know to verify if my audio takes has crackle on it. If you want to to some testing, play a wav file or a MIDI track with a SF loaded, and record the "stereo mix" at the same time, then apply the X-crackle plugin with Sound Forge or another audio program. Wish nVidia quickly releases their new nForce drivers with a good IDE driver... Kyle __________________ My DAW: Athlon XP 2000+ \| MSI K7N2 Delta L \| 2x256MB DDR333 Spectek CL2.5 \| 40GB 7200 ATA/133 Maxtor HD (PM - WinXP SP1, programs, files) \| 30GB 7200RPM ATA/100 Quantum HD (PS - audio projects) \| Soyn CD-RW 52x burner (SM) \| Pioneer DVD 115-F (SS) \| Geforce4 MX 440 64MB DDR AGP 4x \| SB Live (CT4620) in PCI #3 using KX drivers! \| nForce2 onboard AC97 with Realtek drivers \| nForce2 LAN enabled \| and other stuff...

Sep 19, 2003, 03:36 PM	#3
Eugene Gavrilov kX Project Lead Programmer and Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,106 Rep Power: 73	the best choice would be to install Creative drivers, check the latency, re-install kX and set the latency /E

Sep 20, 2003, 06:54 AM	Thread Starter #4
vikflash HardwareHeaven Lover Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 148 Rep Power: 0	Hi It is not so simple Because I got one machine win98se Powerstrip and creative drivers 1- Motherboard asus P2B with PCI latency timer in bios set to 128 So Powerstrip reports all devices at 128 (priority to bios latency timer) 2- Motherboard asus a7n8x2Deluxe with no PCI latency timer in bios Powerstrip reports all devices with different timings 128 for ati radeon 32 creative audio device and 64 for realtek ethernet adapter One or two years ago I read somewhere (maybe steinberg recommandations) to increase soundcard latency to 128 to avoid glitches and crackles. but today's cpu and PCI bus may be don't need such big value I tried different settings without noticing specific difference. I can say It's somewhere between 32 and 128 but I knew this when I started this thread. Would someone have better informations for w98, wxp, sblive and audigy? Thanks for all VikFlash

Sep 24, 2003, 10:16 PM	Thread Starter #6
vikflash HardwareHeaven Lover Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 148 Rep Power: 0	Hi =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Do you have pops with your Asus board? I guess that's why you're asking about PCI latency =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= No Only because it’s new to me to tweak PCI latency separately on each device but..... .....I had the famous bug once when I tried to install XP in PC Standart Mode. Everything went back fine when I reinstalled it ACPI Mode. This bug has been long long long time discussed. "No sound or continuous beep" thread It's still running and unresolved but fortunately it desapeared from my machine. I'm even not sure that everybody is talking about the same thing on this thread. May be it would be nice to make a kind of synthese of what was said in this thread cos now it is real long to read. But what you say is interesting because nobody talked before about UDMA 133 or Maxtor specific bug or issue or poor PCI efficiency caused by hard drive =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= My P4 2.8 tells me that my PCI Bus Efficiency is 72% and when I start Sonar, it drops to 45%. =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= What software do you use to realtime monitor PCI efficiency? I got two hard drives in my machine C: Samsung UDMA 133 40Go Windows 98SE using D: for swapfile D: Maxtor UDMA 133 6E040L0 40GO Windows XP using C: for swapfile I did not installed the "beta" nVidia IDE driver (v3.44) but 2.45 nforce2 whql international downloaded from nvidia site . It works perfect for me under XP. But I had sound drop out (the bug) in PC standart mode with “nforce2 xpdrv1.16” in the box version from asus. Asus said long on their site they were newer (drv1.16) than Nvidia site ones Second thing new and interesting about what you talk about is “inaudible crackle” Dangerous if we can't hear them Don’t know what to say about it. I don’t have Xcrackle . Which Waves bundle is it a part of? Bye Vik