Kx+Creative? Dual card duels!

Polliwog · Nov 20, 2003, 03:38 PM

Dear KX folks,

I have been running CT4832 on w98se sucessfully for quite some time.
Had to do something about the sound quality (ac97, SNR, IMD,...), so,
I got a refurbished SB0090 Audigy1 Platinum (tested and OK).

Of course I want to have the SB0090 running KX, this is essential (KxDSP, KxASIO, KxRouting,...da list is long).
Ideally, I would like the CT4832 running digital on creative (for EAX reverb, vocal morpher,...much shorter list).
Alas, I have found that this is not easy to install...not at all!

This is what I have tried so far (and what happened):

1. Remove all cards, all drivers, clean registries.
Plug in CT4832 only and install creative drivers, reboot, test, ok. So far so good.
Shutdown, plug in SB0090 and reboot, install KX. CT4832 immediately starts to scream (feedback, IRQ conflict?) or computer simply hangs.
Will not reboot unless in protected mode. I tried cleaning up a few things but totally screwed up windows, would not even reboot in protected mode.

2. Restored a ghost of clean install (bye bye APPs!)
Plugged in BOTH SB0090 AND CT4832 and tried to install KX.
HANGS and windows will not restart.

3. Ghost restore. Plugged SB0090 only, kx installed like a charm and works #1.
Shutdown, plugged in CT4832. Reboot and KX automatically takes possession of my CT4832, very effectively I must add! Bravo!
(Not what I had in mind though, I was hoping PNP would at least ask me something I could say NO to...then install creative)

Since the crashes are kinda hellish to say the least, I prefer to submit this to you clever folks.
I am willing to guiney pig it, but a little guidance would be nice.

Questions:

Does PCI slot number have any importance?

Can I remove KX drivers for the CT4832 only somehow. How can I stop KX from immediately recognizing and supporting the card?

Can I use the system/harware/properties/UPDATE DRIVER in windows (manually)? Can the creative driver installation be done manually somehow?

Should I simply install creative SBLive drivers over KX (sound really messy to me)?

Daniel Drummond has successfully done this on XP using driver rollback. Can I achieve sort of the same thing in w98se manually?
Get XP? (I was hoping you would not suggest that, maybe I'm due)

SHOULD I JUST GIVE UP ON THIS? (100% KX sound reasonable right about now...)

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards,
Paul

Rogacz · Nov 20, 2003, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Does PCI slot number have any importance?

I know that only plugging audio card in last PCI slot can cause problems. Other slots should work ok.

Polliwog · Nov 20, 2003, 07:18 PM

Thank you Rogacz!

Not that though..
...thanks nonetheless.

Here are my ASUS P4T-E 478 socket 850 Chipset slots:
AGP pro - Video card Nvidea Quadro2
PCI#1 - SCSI port
PCI#2 - CT4832 SbLive
PCI#3 - SB0090 Audigy Platinum
PCI#4 - Network card
PCI#5 - (Free)
CNR Slot - (Free)

OTHER PROBLEMS ENCOUNTERED:

I noticed that in NT, after installing CT4832, Creative Augigy drivers are now controlling the CT4832 instead of the Audigy card.
The Audigy drivers were controlling the Audigy fine. I did not change slots either!
Nothing controls the Audigy card now (silent), however the CT4832 seems 100% functional, including the remotre IR (hehe).
Strange. Obviously Creative does not support multiple cards and made no effort there whatsoever.

Would reversing the card positions fix this? (ie Audigy in PCI#2 and CT4832 in PCI#3).
Are there other problems (ie possible PCI conflicts) I might encounter in NT?

KX is managing both cards in w98se just fine.
Just had to plugin and install one at a time. Both at once caused conflicts on KX install.
BTW: I noticed that there is a PCI Management Driver missing (yellow flag).

What sems most evident now is that XP will fix most of my problems.
One OS will be a lot less hassle, that is for sure.

All comments and suggestions welcome.
Thanks in advance.

Cheers,
Paul.

Nappylady · Nov 20, 2003, 10:57 PM

Polliwog,

It sounds like you may have things where you want them now, but maybe I'm reading wrong. I'd suggest that you try installing the kX drivers before installing any cards, then installing both cards, then installing the Creative drivers.

In the Device Manager (start -> settings -> control panel -> system -> "device manager" tab) you can open the properties of individual devices and choose a different driver for them. This is done on a per-device basis--you could, in theory, have the kX driver control the EMU10K chip and the Creative driver control the game port!

I'm running Win2K exclusively, and the procedures are different for 98... look around, I'm sure you'll find it.

calinb · Nov 21, 2003, 04:20 AM

Paul, I installed an Audigy2/CL (for DVD Audio support) and AudigyPlatinum/KX combo in my Win2K machine with no problems whatsoever! I installed the Audigy2 card and CL drivers first. Then I installed the AudigyPlat and KX. When KX asked me which card(s) to use, I simply installed for the SB0090 only. I am not using the ACPI HAL (ACPIC is default) so there are no shared interrupts on any of my 3 sound card (I have a Hoontech Digital XG too.)

Quote:

Originally posted by Polliwog
Dear KX folks,
Does PCI slot number have any importance?

I can't remember how this works in 98SE, I think ints are assigned based on PCI slot.

Quote:

Can I remove KX drivers for the CT4832 only somehow. How can I stop KX from immediately recognizing and supporting the card?

I always us Ashampoo Uninstaller at each step of any driver or application installation process. If you use the advanced mode, it's quick, straightforward, and more powerful than system "rollback." I recommend it strongly, but you have to invest a little time to undersand how it works. With Win2k, KX gave me a choice of which card to support. I don't know how the KX uninstaller works--I always us Ashampoo to uninstall.

Quote:

Can I use the system/harware/properties/UPDATE DRIVER in windows (manually)? Can the creative driver installation be done manually somehow?

You should be able to point the "manual" installer to the .inf installation files, once you find them.

Quote:

Should I simply install creative SBLive drivers over KX (sound really messy to me)??

I think it's always best to uninstall first, but many uninstallers don't actually remove all files, like Ashampoo or other "delta-based" uninstallers. You might try booting to safe mode. Then go to control panel >> system >> device (hardware) manager and delete all instances of the old drivers first.

Quote:

Daniel Drummond has successfully done this on XP using driver rollback. Can I achieve sort of the same thing in w98se manually?

Yes, with a 3rd party uninstaller. But you have to take a snapshot BEFORE you do the installation.

Quote:

Get XP? (I was hoping you would not suggest that, maybe I'm due)?

I, personally, haven't tried XP with KX. I guess ACPI presents fewer problems with XP than Win2K. XP uses WDM drivers so, unless you're a gamer, WDM is probably more reliable, but none of this is related to your problem and doesn't SE use WDM anyway?

P.S. I have my Audigies in the "last" two slots. No problems!

Polliwog · Nov 21, 2003, 04:22 PM

Hi all!

Thanks for the input, it is most useful in trying to understand, fast.
Trying to debug this is very time consuming, I'd rather be making music...
...and earning money (for that "work thing" that puts bread on da table).

I have decided to spill for XP. It is unavoidable.
Just too many issues:
-Dual boot with 2 differnet OSs (one in NTFS, the other in FAT32)
-Dual driver issues on 2 OSs. Masy work on one but...
-W98se instability. Hangs and reboots are a frequent nuisance
-WDM drivers in XP better for Kx
-Driver roll back feature in XP

In order to qualify for XP OEM pricing, I must purchase some hardware.
The discount of the OEM is such that XP+HDD is cheaper than XP alone!
So, I have decided to get a second 80GB HDD, uniquely for audion data, OS on the primary HDD.
I had read somewhere that this is advantageous for better audio data read/write.
IS THIS CORRECT?

The feedback from you gurus is always appreciated!
Pls keep it comin'

Cheers,
Paul.

calinb · Nov 21, 2003, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Polliwog
The discount of the OEM is such that XP+HDD is cheaper than XP alone!

Just make sure the OEM version has all the XP features that you need. I know that some OEM builds are not complete versions of the OS. They usually come with "restore CD/DVDs" instead of the actual MS XP CD. If you get a real XP installation CD, you're probably okay.

Quote:

So, I have decided to get a second 80GB HDD, uniquely for audion data, OS on the primary HDD.
I had read somewhere that this is advantageous for better audio data read/write.
IS THIS CORRECT?

Yeah, but put the drive for audio capture on its own IDE controller (master only) so it will have its own DMA channel.

Polliwog · Nov 21, 2003, 11:06 PM

Dear Calinb,

Thanks! This is EXACTLY what I will do!

- 80GB HDD1 in primary IDE slot. XP and apps there
- 80GB HDD2 in secondary IDE slot, CDROM slave. Audio data there.

This should rock!

I was unable to get my XP in english, have to wait for monday :-(

Thanks,
Paul.

calinb · Nov 22, 2003, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Polliwog

- 80GB HDD1 in primary IDE slot. XP and apps there
- 80GB HDD2 in secondary IDE slot, CDROM slave. Audio data there.

Paul, Yeah, that should work well because the CDROM isn't normally active during audio capture. Let us know how it turns out.

Cal

Nov 20, 2003, 07:18 PM	Thread Starter #3
Polliwog DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Quebec City, Canada Posts: 25 Rep Power: 0	Thank you Rogacz! Not that though.. ...thanks nonetheless. Here are my ASUS P4T-E 478 socket 850 Chipset slots: AGP pro - Video card Nvidea Quadro2 PCI#1 - SCSI port PCI#2 - CT4832 SbLive PCI#3 - SB0090 Audigy Platinum PCI#4 - Network card PCI#5 - (Free) CNR Slot - (Free) OTHER PROBLEMS ENCOUNTERED: I noticed that in NT, after installing CT4832, Creative Augigy drivers are now controlling the CT4832 instead of the Audigy card. The Audigy drivers were controlling the Audigy fine. I did not change slots either! Nothing controls the Audigy card now (silent), however the CT4832 seems 100% functional, including the remotre IR (hehe). Strange. Obviously Creative does not support multiple cards and made no effort there whatsoever. Would reversing the card positions fix this? (ie Audigy in PCI#2 and CT4832 in PCI#3). Are there other problems (ie possible PCI conflicts) I might encounter in NT? KX is managing both cards in w98se just fine. Just had to plugin and install one at a time. Both at once caused conflicts on KX install. BTW: I noticed that there is a PCI Management Driver missing (yellow flag). What sems most evident now is that XP will fix most of my problems. One OS will be a lot less hassle, that is for sure. All comments and suggestions welcome. Thanks in advance. Cheers, Paul. __________________ ASUS P4 1.7 512MB Ram, 80GB 7200rpm, Nvidia Quadro2, w98se (dual boot NT4), Audigy Platinum SB0090 SbLive Value CT4832

Nov 21, 2003, 04:22 PM	Thread Starter #6
Polliwog DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Quebec City, Canada Posts: 25 Rep Power: 0	Hi all! Thanks for the input, it is most useful in trying to understand, fast. Trying to debug this is very time consuming, I'd rather be making music... ...and earning money (for that "work thing" that puts bread on da table). I have decided to spill for XP. It is unavoidable. Just too many issues: -Dual boot with 2 differnet OSs (one in NTFS, the other in FAT32) -Dual driver issues on 2 OSs. Masy work on one but... -W98se instability. Hangs and reboots are a frequent nuisance -WDM drivers in XP better for Kx -Driver roll back feature in XP In order to qualify for XP OEM pricing, I must purchase some hardware. The discount of the OEM is such that XP+HDD is cheaper than XP alone! So, I have decided to get a second 80GB HDD, uniquely for audion data, OS on the primary HDD. I had read somewhere that this is advantageous for better audio data read/write. IS THIS CORRECT? The feedback from you gurus is always appreciated! Pls keep it comin' Cheers, Paul. __________________ ASUS P4 1.7 512MB Ram, 80GB 7200rpm, Nvidia Quadro2, w98se (dual boot NT4), Audigy Platinum SB0090 SbLive Value CT4832

Nov 21, 2003, 11:06 PM	Thread Starter #8
Polliwog DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Quebec City, Canada Posts: 25 Rep Power: 0	Dear Calinb, Thanks! This is EXACTLY what I will do! - 80GB HDD1 in primary IDE slot. XP and apps there - 80GB HDD2 in secondary IDE slot, CDROM slave. Audio data there. This should rock! I was unable to get my XP in english, have to wait for monday :-( Thanks, Paul. __________________ ASUS P4 1.7 512MB Ram, 80GB 7200rpm, Nvidia Quadro2, w98se (dual boot NT4), Audigy Platinum SB0090 SbLive Value CT4832

Nov 20, 2003, 03:38 PM	#1
Polliwog DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Quebec City, Canada Posts: 25 Rep Power: 0	Kx+Creative? Dual card duels! Dear KX folks, I have been running CT4832 on w98se sucessfully for quite some time. Had to do something about the sound quality (ac97, SNR, IMD,...), so, I got a refurbished SB0090 Audigy1 Platinum (tested and OK). Of course I want to have the SB0090 running KX, this is essential (KxDSP, KxASIO, KxRouting,...da list is long). Ideally, I would like the CT4832 running digital on creative (for EAX reverb, vocal morpher,...much shorter list). Alas, I have found that this is not easy to install...not at all! This is what I have tried so far (and what happened): 1. Remove all cards, all drivers, clean registries. Plug in CT4832 only and install creative drivers, reboot, test, ok. So far so good. Shutdown, plug in SB0090 and reboot, install KX. CT4832 immediately starts to scream (feedback, IRQ conflict?) or computer simply hangs. Will not reboot unless in protected mode. I tried cleaning up a few things but totally screwed up windows, would not even reboot in protected mode. 2. Restored a ghost of clean install (bye bye APPs!) Plugged in BOTH SB0090 AND CT4832 and tried to install KX. HANGS and windows will not restart. 3. Ghost restore. Plugged SB0090 only, kx installed like a charm and works #1. Shutdown, plugged in CT4832. Reboot and KX automatically takes possession of my CT4832, very effectively I must add! Bravo! (Not what I had in mind though, I was hoping PNP would at least ask me something I could say NO to...then install creative) Since the crashes are kinda hellish to say the least, I prefer to submit this to you clever folks. I am willing to guiney pig it, but a little guidance would be nice. Questions: Does PCI slot number have any importance? Can I remove KX drivers for the CT4832 only somehow. How can I stop KX from immediately recognizing and supporting the card? Can I use the system/harware/properties/UPDATE DRIVER in windows (manually)? Can the creative driver installation be done manually somehow? Should I simply install creative SBLive drivers over KX (sound really messy to me)? Daniel Drummond has successfully done this on XP using driver rollback. Can I achieve sort of the same thing in w98se manually? Get XP? (I was hoping you would not suggest that, maybe I'm due) SHOULD I JUST GIVE UP ON THIS? (100% KX sound reasonable right about now...) Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Kind regards, Paul __________________ ASUS P4 1.7 512MB Ram, 80GB 7200rpm, Nvidia Quadro2, w98se (dual boot NT4), Audigy Platinum SB0090 SbLive Value CT4832

Nov 20, 2003, 10:57 PM	#4
Nappylady DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 257 Rep Power: 0	Polliwog, It sounds like you may have things where you want them now, but maybe I'm reading wrong. I'd suggest that you try installing the kX drivers before installing any cards, then installing both cards, then installing the Creative drivers. In the Device Manager (start -> settings -> control panel -> system -> "device manager" tab) you can open the properties of individual devices and choose a different driver for them. This is done on a per-device basis--you could, in theory, have the kX driver control the EMU10K chip and the Creative driver control the game port! I'm running Win2K exclusively, and the procedures are different for 98... look around, I'm sure you'll find it.