Analogue to SPDIF - converter project opened

S_Milton · Apr 2, 2004, 07:33 PM

>> The fact is that there is much less noise and lower distortions

Yes, a lot

BTW-- I posted a thread (but nobody had made comments) on photos of the ADCs on the Card and on the Drive: they are the same!!!
Those photos confirm what my ears were telling me since started using AC97-2 the ADCs are the same (the tonal quality is the same, just a bit more noise, but measuring indicates just 2 dB difference with Aux2 and none with Line/Mic2)

>> Check on Ur A_ex if when U use line2 and aux2 U can also use optical/coaxial spdif

Love to do it (in fact I have curiosity on it for more than a year) but I don?t have equipment with Spdif Out ( I know it sounds strange but I am an analog guy: waited 10 years to switch to CDs, still have a LaserDisc Video player and my amplifier is Dolby Prologic ) apart from the DVD on my living room don?t have anything with digital outs (and moving the DVD to my studio is one hour task due to decoration issues (and wife looking over your shoulder as you move delicate artwork)
But since now is not just for curiosity I will see what could do on weekend (perhaps doing it at midnight while wife is sleeping) or ask a friend for a MD player.

Happy weekend for all too

Eneen · Apr 2, 2004, 08:53 PM

I'm digital audiophile child

Stereo only, no prologic (even with such called home_cinema), no cassette recorder, only cd, dvd, power amplifier, selfmade speaker boxes, headphones (I have to make headphone amp), soundbastard since v.2.0, etc

U can take out drive, and connect spdif signal from cdrom inside the computer. Here http://www.electricstart.de/pic/aud_ext.gif on TraveRec's site is the pinout of aud_ext. gp_spdifin1 and gp_spdifin2 are important. It's quite easy to connect cdrom to pins 5_6 and 15_16. Be careful: play cd_audio with nero, cos audigy take cdaudio signal from ide and U can hear sound even if cddrive has no audio cable onnected

I have live and audigy card in my box, and live is connected to audigy through 15_16. All needed is caution, good pin counting and 2_wire ordinary cd_spdif cable, but not coaxial!

But if U are not able to do it, please don't, because it's asy to burn Ur card. I will test it myself when adcs samples come

Thanx alot

Have a nice weekend

S_Milton · Apr 3, 2004, 04:03 AM

OK:

Tested and bingo.

Aux2 ( pin 33 on AUD_EXT)
Line/Mic2 (pin 35 on AUD_EXT)
SPDIF Optical/Coax (pin 15 or 06 on AUD_EXT)

Are independent.

Remembered that I have a source of spdif: a feed back loop with the digital out of the card

It worked so, in the afternoon reached for the DVD player (found that the only output was optical, so out to the store again ) and confirmed (wife protested, but I really had to test it)

S_Milton · Apr 3, 2004, 06:51 AM

Update

-Aux2
-Line/Mic2
-SPDIF Optical/Coax
-CD SPDIF
-Line1 thru UDA AC97-2
-AC97 (mic, Aux and CD_analog mixed)

Are independent, capable of simultaneous recording in ASIO

So what is left is find which is what pin, 6 and 15 for spdif and 31, 33, 35 for I2S

Maybe that even the three I2S inputs could be used

(without activating AC97-2 trick the pin 31 could be free)

Now I am going to sleep, is late here

Eneen · Apr 3, 2004, 06:02 PM

Great, just great!!!

One more to check: what port on drive is assigned to z_video in kx_mixer. I've checked pins and 15 is spdif (I dont know if coax or optic, I don't have drive) and 6 is z_video.
From Ur tests: it seems that with drive connected z_video is free.
It seems too that pin 31 (i2s) is UDA (strage, I thought it wuld be 33). Maybe it will be possible to use it too, but to check it I have to get my adcs. If pin 31 is isolated it won't work. I'll take out my card and try to trace paths again.
Thanx again, great work!

Eneen · Apr 3, 2004, 06:43 PM

Pin 33 is grounded by resistor. Pin 31 and 35 are going through resistors to 10k2. It's not for sure. Correct me if I'm wrong.

S_Milton · Apr 4, 2004, 03:25 AM

Eneen

I will let that TraveRec and you do the handy jobs on the cards since my unfeeling hands are a problem

From documentation and photos (mainly Live! Cards)

DSP pin >>Aud_Ext pin>> function comment

108 >> 31 >> I2S Data 02
107 >> 33 >> I2S Data 01
106 >> 35 >> I2S Data 00 (according to Russian site is AUX2)

104 >> 37 >> 3MHz Clock for pins 106 to 108
103 >> 39 >> 48kHz i2s frame for pins 106 to 108

122 >> 06 >> CD SPDIF (shared w. onboard plug for CD)
123 >> 15 >> Coaxial/Optical SPDIF (for the Audigy Drive)

8,9,10,11,12 > I2S in, out & sync to AC97 CODEC

132, 133, 134 pin on 10k1 are another I2S IN, some SB Live! Had a 4-pin connector on top of the card marked I2S_In for plugging a Dxr2 Decoder Card for DVD decoding. other Live! cards had the circuits for this but the connector were missing. (is this ZVIDEO ? honestly I don?t know ) others seem to have them unconnected or grounded. On audigys don?t have any info. These don?t have any connection to the AUD_EXT.

132 >> 1 >> SDATA
133 >> 4 >> BCLK for 132
134 >> 2 >> LRCLK for 132 (pin 3 is GND)

Picture http://w1.910.telia.com/~u91003452/l...d_in_close.jpg

In Linux drivers sources and patent for EMU, zvideo is a I2S interface not spdif

So in all the DSP could handle 5 I2S Ins + 2 SPDIF Ins (This is something, isn?t it?)

S_Milton · Apr 4, 2004, 08:06 AM

AUD_EXT Pins 35,37,39+GND have been reported several times to work without problems with DIY I2S circuits
Every body uses this one
http://www.sblive.narod.ru/SPDIFtoI2S/SPDIFtoI2S.gif
(made for connect to the original Ensoniq card)
It appears in Aux2 on the mixer (creative, same in KX)

Pins 31 and 33 seem to be more problematic, but some times people have resolved them modifying the registry (remember: Creative Drivers. KX should have no problems un less is hardware related)

Eneen · Apr 4, 2004, 02:58 PM

>> So in all the DSP could handle 5 I2S Ins + 2 SPDIF Ins (This is something, isn?t it?)
Yep, total 6 external inputs (without ac97 connection) but 10k1 allows only 3 at once recording + 1 ac97. BTW: I have second live card with z_video input onboard (unsoldered but paths are present). On newer live! there are no paths and pins on 10k1 are not connected. Anyway it is sharing one of i2s on AUD_EXT.

10k2: 6 external inputs: 3_spidfs (yep, with z_video, probably changed interface, if I had 10k2 pinout I would solve it), 3 i2s (one taken by uda, ac97_2), recording from every source. So on 10k2 we can get 5 external inputs with recording from every source. A2_Ex and A2ZS_Pro has no uda onboard so it's possible to get 6 stereo inputs.

As soon as I get adcs from Ti i'll start testing.

TravelRec. · Apr 5, 2004, 09:35 AM

Hi!

Nice thread inbetween - weekend is gone and I´m back again (had to work

). Unfortunately my IC has not arrived yet... but your news are sounding very good. For now my Audigy works - like you said - with 4 stereo ins (indpendent) so the three SPDIFS and the PHILIPS UDA via I2S - and that proofs also that there are more than 3 ins with 10k2 (sorry for 10k1 users

). I think, in few weeks all 10k2 users w/o the drive are a bit happier with 12 ASIO-Record-Channels !!! Hope the processor can do this job

!

CU!

TravelRec.

S_Milton · Apr 8, 2004, 05:50 AM

Friends I will be out of town for a week or a bit more due to my work
Will try to keep in contact

Eneen:
A friend of mine lend me a hand (literally) with some measuring and
you were right, pin 33 in AUD_EXT seems grounded, Pin 31 seems to be Line/Mic2 and Pin 35 Aux2 on the drive. Coaxial SPDIF (optical is just an extension of this) pin 15

Zvideo: I am not very optimistic with this, since it seems not to be present in AUD_EXT connector (Live+Audigy1). The AD_EXT connector (Audigy2) is un documented and incompatible with Live/Audigy Drive (CREATIVE have stated that it have different synchronization signals and that they will not HAVE an updated hwinfo.hlp file as the one included with Live/Audigy install disk with pinout) So may be that zvideo is just available to the cards with the 4pin connectors (Eneen, you lucky boy)

CARDS WITH I2S_IN (PC-DVD) that I know
SB Live! CT4620, SB Live! Value CT4670, PCI 512 CT4790
http://www.dearhoney.idv.tw/MUSEUM/Creative_SBLive(CT4620).jpg
http://www.dearhoney.idv.tw/MUSEUM/Creative_SBLive(CT4670).jpg
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/akiba...age/pic15a.jpg

I for six months (more or less) to solve this 3
Old KxMixer Mysteries (for me at least, what are they connected to?):

AC97-2 >> solved
Zvideo >> Some idea
I2S_2 out >> no idea

See you next week (I hope)

Eneen · Apr 8, 2004, 03:19 PM

S_Milton: Great testing. I've checket Z_Video too and it is for sure pin 6 on AUD_EXT and it is spdif type, so everybone with Audigy1 is lucky one too

My ADCs arrived so I'll start testing as soon as possible.
I have no idea about i2s_out too, someone knows?

TravelRec. · Apr 13, 2004, 07:02 PM

Hi all friends of expandation!

Hope you´ve had fine easter days! Now I´m back for telling some more: tested a circuitry with CS8412 (SPDIF to I2S converter IC) and finally it works great on I2S0 (I2S1 is used by Philips and #2 is free). It accepts 44.1 and 48 kHz without any timing circuitry (it´s connected as a Master so it´s creating an own timing). So if you want to use both of the free I2S you should use the same input frequencies on both inputs and connect the second IC as a Slave or use two CS5331A on a additional board with the card´s own clock, divided by two... If there is more interest, please reply here. My new config now: Audigy 1 with 4 dig INs and 2 ana INs and 4 dig outs and 3 ana outs (all independent and stereo).

Greetings!

TravelRec.

**dj_stick** · Apr 14, 2004, 02:59 AM

very nice very nice TravelRec, sounds lik u got a power house of a card now

TravelRec. · Apr 15, 2004, 09:30 AM

Yes dj!

So it seems - think it´s a real alternative to multicard systems or to the audigy-drive itself, cause you can choose the i/o-format you want for your own desires (optical or coax or direct analog to digital or whatever - no regulation of the manufacturer). I have connected yet all opticals to an unused drive cover for quick access on the front without turning the computer ´round and ´round again. Next time I will connect the second MIDI port to the outside (for more flexibility) and then I think I´ve finished up my expandation so long. Maybe D/A, but later...

Thank you for following this thread so enthusiastic

!

Greetings!

TravelRec.

Kongio · Apr 15, 2004, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TravelRec.
Hi all friends of expandation!

Hope you´ve had fine easter days! Now I´m back for telling some more: tested a circuitry with CS8412 (SPDIF to I2S converter IC) and finally it works great on I2S0 (I2S1 is used by Philips and #2 is free). It accepts 44.1 and 48 kHz without any timing circuitry (it´s connected as a Master so it´s creating an own timing). So if you want to use both of the free I2S you should use the same input frequencies on both inputs and connect the second IC as a Slave or use two CS5331A on a additional board with the card´s own clock, divided by two... If there is more interest, please reply here. My new config now: Audigy 1 with 4 dig INs and 2 ana INs and 4 dig outs and 3 ana outs (all independent and stereo).

Greetings!

TravelRec.

That sounds quality Travelrec. I'm interested in doing something similar. Do you think you could possibly update your site with the new information? That would be great!

I will get round to building these, once I've finished moving house

Many thanks
Kongio

TravelRec. · Apr 18, 2004, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Do you think you could possibly update your site with the new information?

Yes, I think so - but low time yet. It´s quite easy with the datasheet of CS8412 - I´ve done the circuit on a simple 2.54 inch-hole-matrix pcb for testing - most of the connections are bridges from pins of the IC to ground

and an optical receiver TORX 179 and three wires to I2S. If you want to try...?! No, I´ll update but give me a moment, okay?

Peace!

TravelRec.

Edit: some minor updates are online now, also a simple circuit for SPDIF to I2S conversion.

Have fun!

S_Milton · Apr 28, 2004, 04:50 PM

My God !!!

The Easter Bunny was busy this year:
A new circuit, a new web guide and a new skin (a good one). and when I saw a post called 3538 by Eugene, ??(well almost died from a heart attack)
And Eneen should be busy with the soldering.

Congratulations TravelRec, you should change your Alias to WiredMan (or may be FiberOptics ?) Thumbs up

>> If there is more interest, please reply here.
Are you kidding, off course there IS interest

So if you build a TravelRecSuperLiveDrive should look like this

O O O O O O O O
O O O O O O O
Spdif Spdif UDA AC97
INs OUT IN Mix

(hope this look OK)

And that with just 2 chips !!!

And with your ADC (and Kx, lets not forget that) you have all the flexibility of a present Pro studio.

TravelRec. · Apr 29, 2004, 07:38 AM

Hi S_Milton!

Heh, thanks for the flowers, fine to make you a bit happier - I hope you can replicate all the suggestions successfully. For the names: I think I keep the old one for recognizing, but fine suggestions - I´ll keep them in mind! But next time it will be a bit quieter here with electronics due to low time for doing this. But I´ll check frequently all comments here to give some advice and if there are news, I´ll tell them here. Maybe in few months I want to make some mods on my card with some new results for you to know... if something is new on the site, I also tell it here - so you don´t have to look over and over again. If you have something of the stuff running on your card, please reply here!

Greetings!

TravelRec.

Blento · May 24, 2004, 10:44 AM

..ok..i really tryed to read all the post in this thread..but i lost myself in the middle of it....
can you sum all the conclusions how to create front panel for audigy card...
if you are willing and able..

thanks...

**dj_stick** · May 24, 2004, 11:23 AM

travelrec, ignore the email i sent you (i found the components listing)
but do you have any recommendations for adding three of these designs (ie can they be put on one pcb etc) and using it as a drivebay (using and old IDE cable to connect it to the AUD_EXT)
and also power… would do you recommend i do with the molex connectors (+5,G,G,+12 - thinking to bridge the +5&G, and using a resistor or voltage drop on the +12 rail to get between 7-9V)

TravelRec. · May 24, 2004, 01:52 PM

Hi dj!

Hmm, since main idea was to have the A/D outside of the compi, your question sounds a bit controversial, but finally you can make a bay or so with five interfaces on one pcb for sure. Simply adding of the current layout would not help you due to different designs of SPDIF and I2S out-stages. For inside bay you don´t need the opticals and you need only one timing unit (oscillator and HC74) for all five possible A/Ds. All A/Ds must be synchronized and master/slave connected to meet I2S standard on the card. There are so many possibilities to make the things working that I fear I´ve to make more than 5 different layouts to reach every possible connection way. But this will take some time - the best way is, you say what you want to have and which space there is inside your 5 1/4" spare hole for the whole unit and I create a layout for this task and send it to you. Note: A full version with all 3 SPDIFs and the 2 free I2Ses is not very cheap, you know?! And it works (afaik) only on Audigy1 cards (I2S is not shared with SPDIF on this card).

Power supply: if you are inside the computer you have 5 Volts on the AUD_EXT pin 1 and 2 - so you finally don´t need any regulation. Theoretically... But this supply is full of noise generated from the computer itself (main reason to put the A/Ds out of it). So the best way is to use the 12V path and regulate it to 9V and then for each unit seperately down to 5V. So you can eliminate most of the noise from the power cords. Interferences inside of the tower you can´t kill anyway and they will be transmitted into the analog inputs - not a grat deal... And very important: all analog grounds must be floating and never be connected together or with shield ground. This will increase input noise dramatically!
IDE cable on AUD_EXT is okay, but I discovered, that you have to disconnect pin 4 directly on AUD_EXT-side, ´cause the 24 Mhz clock pulse there interferes with pin 6 SPDIF#2 input and makes receiving impossible.

Hope this helps!

TravelRec.

**dj_stick** · May 24, 2004, 01:58 PM

i have an audigy (Sb0162) card, and my plan was to have 6 mono analog inputs (3 stereo spdif to the AUD_EXT connector) and the midi connectors you have also made a plan for - so there is no use for me to use the I2S connectors
i have access to PCB etching and imaging equipment through school, if you could take the time to design a PCB that would incorporate this including the 12v rail from the PSU.
My plan was to use an old IDE cable to connect to the drivebay… if that helps much.
Thank you in advance
Edit: i have 1 full 5 1/2drive bay free… not sure how deep it is but there are no obstructions behind it

TravelRec. · May 24, 2004, 02:39 PM

Okay,

then give me some time to create the layout. But I can´t test it here - that task is on you. Have you the molex male port available? Then I will add the pads for it. Maybe you can send me a scan and the measurements in mm? Do you want to have an IDE-port (40pin) on the "bay" ? Which kind of sockets do you want to use? Print-versions or front-fixed with solder pins - please send me a model description, also with measurements. E-mail address is in your PM!

Greetings!

TravelRec.

**dj_stick** · May 24, 2004, 10:43 PM

thank you travelrec… i will measure the front bay dimensions tonight

meroveus · May 25, 2004, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TravelRec.

Power supply: if you are inside the computer you have 5 Volts on the AUD_EXT pin 1 and 2 - so you finally don´t need any regulation. Theoretically... But this supply is full of noise generated from the computer itself (main reason to put the A/Ds out of it). So the best way is to use the 12V path and regulate it to 9V and then for each unit seperately down to 5V. So you can eliminate most of the noise from the power cords.

TravelRec, I am confused.
If the 5V supply is noisy, couldn't you run it through a filter?
There are plenty of chips which, when input a varying voltage, will output a voltage with very low ripple.
From what I recall, PCI cards only have access to 5V. Is this right? So the 5V couldn't be _that_ noisy, even for cards such as.. the new E-Mu 1212.
Also, if the 5V is noisy, why wouldn't the 12V be noisy as well?

cheers.

(Enquiring minds want to know!

)

**dj_stick** · May 25, 2004, 09:42 AM

by altering the 12V line (which would be the noisiest due to system fans and the line noise that they add) you can destry some of the noise i think…

TravelRec. · May 26, 2004, 07:05 AM

Quote:

If the 5V supply is noisy, couldn't you run it through a filter?

Yes sure; the circuitry has also a filter built in to to save the analog unit against supply noise - but I´m not sure that it´s enough. So it´s more save to regulate the 12V rail twice and then the supply is definitive clean. If you want to try you could check all ways out - I have not the time for doing this and my units are outside and so there are no problems with digital noise - this was my solution and if there are other ways - why not? All experiences with it I will list on my site, so that every user finally can deceide which way he want to go. The great benefit of outside conversion is: you have optical ins´n outs on the interface-bay of the card - so you can easily connect other electronics with the optical SPDIF interface (like DAT or other recorders, receivers and digital fx). If you have the A/D inside the computer - you have not this possibility...

Greetings!

TravelRec.

**dj_stick** · May 26, 2004, 07:43 AM

if the module fits in the drive bay, can't it also be semi-modular (ie have an external case for it) if required?

TravelRec. · May 26, 2004, 08:04 AM

Yes, and that´s finally that what I´ve made here

: digital interfaces in the compi, analog circuits in breakout box and connections via opticals... If you have the all the circuitry in the compi you need also some switching logic to get the signals from <-> to outside. With the opticals you only have to attach or disattach a jack, if you need. It´s like a hardware-DSP

. The problem is that the wires to the card (the ide-wire) should be as short as possible so you can´t connect things with long distances over a simple cable without any interferencing.

Greetings!

TravelRec.

Apr 2, 2004, 07:33 PM	#31
S_Milton DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 70 Rep Power: 0	>> The fact is that there is much less noise and lower distortions Yes, a lot BTW-- I posted a thread (but nobody had made comments) on photos of the ADCs on the Card and on the Drive: they are the same!!! Those photos confirm what my ears were telling me since started using AC97-2 the ADCs are the same (the tonal quality is the same, just a bit more noise, but measuring indicates just 2 dB difference with Aux2 and none with Line/Mic2) >> Check on Ur A_ex if when U use line2 and aux2 U can also use optical/coaxial spdif Love to do it (in fact I have curiosity on it for more than a year) but I don?t have equipment with Spdif Out ( I know it sounds strange but I am an analog guy: waited 10 years to switch to CDs, still have a LaserDisc Video player and my amplifier is Dolby Prologic ) apart from the DVD on my living room don?t have anything with digital outs (and moving the DVD to my studio is one hour task due to decoration issues (and wife looking over your shoulder as you move delicate artwork) But since now is not just for curiosity I will see what could do on weekend (perhaps doing it at midnight while wife is sleeping) or ask a friend for a MD player. Happy weekend for all too __________________ MS

Apr 3, 2004, 04:03 AM	#33
S_Milton DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 70 Rep Power: 0	OK: Tested and bingo. Aux2 ( pin 33 on AUD_EXT) Line/Mic2 (pin 35 on AUD_EXT) SPDIF Optical/Coax (pin 15 or 06 on AUD_EXT) Are independent. Remembered that I have a source of spdif: a feed back loop with the digital out of the card It worked so, in the afternoon reached for the DVD player (found that the only output was optical, so out to the store again ) and confirmed (wife protested, but I really had to test it) __________________ MS

Apr 3, 2004, 06:51 AM	#34
S_Milton DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 70 Rep Power: 0	Update -Aux2 -Line/Mic2 -SPDIF Optical/Coax -CD SPDIF -Line1 thru UDA AC97-2 -AC97 (mic, Aux and CD_analog mixed) Are independent, capable of simultaneous recording in ASIO So what is left is find which is what pin, 6 and 15 for spdif and 31, 33, 35 for I2S Maybe that even the three I2S inputs could be used (without activating AC97-2 trick the pin 31 could be free) Now I am going to sleep, is late here __________________ MS

Apr 4, 2004, 03:25 AM	#37
S_Milton DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 70 Rep Power: 0	Eneen I will let that TraveRec and you do the handy jobs on the cards since my unfeeling hands are a problem From documentation and photos (mainly Live! Cards) DSP pin >>Aud_Ext pin>> function comment 108 >> 31 >> I2S Data 02 107 >> 33 >> I2S Data 01 106 >> 35 >> I2S Data 00 (according to Russian site is AUX2) 104 >> 37 >> 3MHz Clock for pins 106 to 108 103 >> 39 >> 48kHz i2s frame for pins 106 to 108 122 >> 06 >> CD SPDIF (shared w. onboard plug for CD) 123 >> 15 >> Coaxial/Optical SPDIF (for the Audigy Drive) 8,9,10,11,12 > I2S in, out & sync to AC97 CODEC 132, 133, 134 pin on 10k1 are another I2S IN, some SB Live! Had a 4-pin connector on top of the card marked I2S_In for plugging a Dxr2 Decoder Card for DVD decoding. other Live! cards had the circuits for this but the connector were missing. (is this ZVIDEO ? honestly I don?t know ) others seem to have them unconnected or grounded. On audigys don?t have any info. These don?t have any connection to the AUD_EXT. 132 >> 1 >> SDATA 133 >> 4 >> BCLK for 132 134 >> 2 >> LRCLK for 132 (pin 3 is GND) Picture http://w1.910.telia.com/~u91003452/l...d_in_close.jpg In Linux drivers sources and patent for EMU, zvideo is a I2S interface not spdif So in all the DSP could handle 5 I2S Ins + 2 SPDIF Ins (This is something, isn?t it?) __________________ MS

Apr 4, 2004, 08:06 AM	#38
S_Milton DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 70 Rep Power: 0	GOOD news AUD_EXT Pins 35,37,39+GND have been reported several times to work without problems with DIY I2S circuits Every body uses this one http://www.sblive.narod.ru/SPDIFtoI2S/SPDIFtoI2S.gif (made for connect to the original Ensoniq card) It appears in Aux2 on the mixer (creative, same in KX) Pins 31 and 33 seem to be more problematic, but some times people have resolved them modifying the registry (remember: Creative Drivers. KX should have no problems un less is hardware related) __________________ MS

Apr 2, 2004, 08:53 PM	#32
Eneen DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 10 Rep Power: 0	I'm digital audiophile child Stereo only, no prologic (even with such called home_cinema), no cassette recorder, only cd, dvd, power amplifier, selfmade speaker boxes, headphones (I have to make headphone amp), soundbastard since v.2.0, etc U can take out drive, and connect spdif signal from cdrom inside the computer. Here http://www.electricstart.de/pic/aud_ext.gif on TraveRec's site is the pinout of aud_ext. gp_spdifin1 and gp_spdifin2 are important. It's quite easy to connect cdrom to pins 5_6 and 15_16. Be careful: play cd_audio with nero, cos audigy take cdaudio signal from ide and U can hear sound even if cddrive has no audio cable onnected I have live and audigy card in my box, and live is connected to audigy through 15_16. All needed is caution, good pin counting and 2_wire ordinary cd_spdif cable, but not coaxial! But if U are not able to do it, please don't, because it's asy to burn Ur card. I will test it myself when adcs samples come Thanx alot Have a nice weekend

Apr 3, 2004, 06:02 PM	#35
Eneen DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 10 Rep Power: 0	Great, just great!!! One more to check: what port on drive is assigned to z_video in kx_mixer. I've checked pins and 15 is spdif (I dont know if coax or optic, I don't have drive) and 6 is z_video. From Ur tests: it seems that with drive connected z_video is free. It seems too that pin 31 (i2s) is UDA (strage, I thought it wuld be 33). Maybe it will be possible to use it too, but to check it I have to get my adcs. If pin 31 is isolated it won't work. I'll take out my card and try to trace paths again. Thanx again, great work!

Apr 3, 2004, 06:43 PM	#36
Eneen DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 10 Rep Power: 0	Pin 33 is grounded by resistor. Pin 31 and 35 are going through resistors to 10k2. It's not for sure. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Apr 4, 2004, 02:58 PM	#39
Eneen DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 10 Rep Power: 0	>> So in all the DSP could handle 5 I2S Ins + 2 SPDIF Ins (This is something, isn?t it?) Yep, total 6 external inputs (without ac97 connection) but 10k1 allows only 3 at once recording + 1 ac97. BTW: I have second live card with z_video input onboard (unsoldered but paths are present). On newer live! there are no paths and pins on 10k1 are not connected. Anyway it is sharing one of i2s on AUD_EXT. 10k2: 6 external inputs: 3_spidfs (yep, with z_video, probably changed interface, if I had 10k2 pinout I would solve it), 3 i2s (one taken by uda, ac97_2), recording from every source. So on 10k2 we can get 5 external inputs with recording from every source. A2_Ex and A2ZS_Pro has no uda onboard so it's possible to get 6 stereo inputs. As soon as I get adcs from Ti i'll start testing.

Apr 5, 2004, 09:35 AM	Thread Starter #40
TravelRec. Alternative Audioproductions Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Germany / Sachsen-Anhalt Posts: 1,710 Rep Power: 56	Hi! Nice thread inbetween - weekend is gone and I´m back again (had to work ). Unfortunately my IC has not arrived yet... but your news are sounding very good. For now my Audigy works - like you said - with 4 stereo ins (indpendent) so the three SPDIFS and the PHILIPS UDA via I2S - and that proofs also that there are more than 3 ins with 10k2 (sorry for 10k1 users ). I think, in few weeks all 10k2 users w/o the drive are a bit happier with 12 ASIO-Record-Channels !!! Hope the processor can do this job ! CU! TravelRec. __________________ Always take a look behind.

Apr 8, 2004, 05:50 AM	#41
S_Milton DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 70 Rep Power: 0	Friends I will be out of town for a week or a bit more due to my work Will try to keep in contact Eneen: A friend of mine lend me a hand (literally) with some measuring and you were right, pin 33 in AUD_EXT seems grounded, Pin 31 seems to be Line/Mic2 and Pin 35 Aux2 on the drive. Coaxial SPDIF (optical is just an extension of this) pin 15 Zvideo: I am not very optimistic with this, since it seems not to be present in AUD_EXT connector (Live+Audigy1). The AD_EXT connector (Audigy2) is un documented and incompatible with Live/Audigy Drive (CREATIVE have stated that it have different synchronization signals and that they will not HAVE an updated hwinfo.hlp file as the one included with Live/Audigy install disk with pinout) So may be that zvideo is just available to the cards with the 4pin connectors (Eneen, you lucky boy) CARDS WITH I2S_IN (PC-DVD) that I know SB Live! CT4620, SB Live! Value CT4670, PCI 512 CT4790 http://www.dearhoney.idv.tw/MUSEUM/Creative_SBLive(CT4620).jpg http://www.dearhoney.idv.tw/MUSEUM/Creative_SBLive(CT4670).jpg http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/akiba...age/pic15a.jpg I for six months (more or less) to solve this 3 Old KxMixer Mysteries (for me at least, what are they connected to?): AC97-2 >> solved Zvideo >> Some idea I2S_2 out >> no idea See you next week (I hope) __________________ MS

Apr 8, 2004, 03:19 PM	#42
Eneen DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 10 Rep Power: 0	S_Milton: Great testing. I've checket Z_Video too and it is for sure pin 6 on AUD_EXT and it is spdif type, so everybone with Audigy1 is lucky one too My ADCs arrived so I'll start testing as soon as possible. I have no idea about i2s_out too, someone knows?

Apr 13, 2004, 07:02 PM	Thread Starter #43
TravelRec. Alternative Audioproductions Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Germany / Sachsen-Anhalt Posts: 1,710 Rep Power: 56	Hi all friends of expandation! Hope you´ve had fine easter days! Now I´m back for telling some more: tested a circuitry with CS8412 (SPDIF to I2S converter IC) and finally it works great on I2S0 (I2S1 is used by Philips and #2 is free). It accepts 44.1 and 48 kHz without any timing circuitry (it´s connected as a Master so it´s creating an own timing). So if you want to use both of the free I2S you should use the same input frequencies on both inputs and connect the second IC as a Slave or use two CS5331A on a additional board with the card´s own clock, divided by two... If there is more interest, please reply here. My new config now: Audigy 1 with 4 dig INs and 2 ana INs and 4 dig outs and 3 ana outs (all independent and stereo). Greetings! TravelRec. __________________ Always take a look behind.

Apr 15, 2004, 09:30 AM	Thread Starter #45
TravelRec. Alternative Audioproductions Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Germany / Sachsen-Anhalt Posts: 1,710 Rep Power: 56	Yes dj! So it seems - think it´s a real alternative to multicard systems or to the audigy-drive itself, cause you can choose the i/o-format you want for your own desires (optical or coax or direct analog to digital or whatever - no regulation of the manufacturer). I have connected yet all opticals to an unused drive cover for quick access on the front without turning the computer ´round and ´round again. Next time I will connect the second MIDI port to the outside (for more flexibility) and then I think I´ve finished up my expandation so long. Maybe D/A, but later... Thank you for following this thread so enthusiastic ! Greetings! TravelRec. __________________ Always take a look behind.

Apr 28, 2004, 04:50 PM	#48
S_Milton DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 70 Rep Power: 0	Back Home My God !!! The Easter Bunny was busy this year: A new circuit, a new web guide and a new skin (a good one). and when I saw a post called 3538 by Eugene, ??(well almost died from a heart attack) And Eneen should be busy with the soldering. Congratulations TravelRec, you should change your Alias to WiredMan (or may be FiberOptics ?) Thumbs up >> If there is more interest, please reply here. Are you kidding, off course there IS interest So if you build a TravelRecSuperLiveDrive should look like this O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O Spdif Spdif UDA AC97 INs OUT IN Mix (hope this look OK) And that with just 2 chips !!! And with your ADC (and Kx, lets not forget that) you have all the flexibility of a present Pro studio. __________________ MS

Apr 29, 2004, 07:38 AM	Thread Starter #49
TravelRec. Alternative Audioproductions Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Germany / Sachsen-Anhalt Posts: 1,710 Rep Power: 56	Hi S_Milton! Heh, thanks for the flowers, fine to make you a bit happier - I hope you can replicate all the suggestions successfully. For the names: I think I keep the old one for recognizing, but fine suggestions - I´ll keep them in mind! But next time it will be a bit quieter here with electronics due to low time for doing this. But I´ll check frequently all comments here to give some advice and if there are news, I´ll tell them here. Maybe in few months I want to make some mods on my card with some new results for you to know... if something is new on the site, I also tell it here - so you don´t have to look over and over again. If you have something of the stuff running on your card, please reply here! Greetings! TravelRec. __________________ Always take a look behind.

May 24, 2004, 10:44 AM	#50
Blento DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 53 Rep Power: 0	..ok..i really tryed to read all the post in this thread..but i lost myself in the middle of it.... can you sum all the conclusions how to create front panel for audigy card... if you are willing and able.. thanks... __________________ JOOODLA

May 24, 2004, 01:52 PM	Thread Starter #52
TravelRec. Alternative Audioproductions Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Germany / Sachsen-Anhalt Posts: 1,710 Rep Power: 56	Hi dj! Hmm, since main idea was to have the A/D outside of the compi, your question sounds a bit controversial, but finally you can make a bay or so with five interfaces on one pcb for sure. Simply adding of the current layout would not help you due to different designs of SPDIF and I2S out-stages. For inside bay you don´t need the opticals and you need only one timing unit (oscillator and HC74) for all five possible A/Ds. All A/Ds must be synchronized and master/slave connected to meet I2S standard on the card. There are so many possibilities to make the things working that I fear I´ve to make more than 5 different layouts to reach every possible connection way. But this will take some time - the best way is, you say what you want to have and which space there is inside your 5 1/4" spare hole for the whole unit and I create a layout for this task and send it to you. Note: A full version with all 3 SPDIFs and the 2 free I2Ses is not very cheap, you know?! And it works (afaik) only on Audigy1 cards (I2S is not shared with SPDIF on this card). Power supply: if you are inside the computer you have 5 Volts on the AUD_EXT pin 1 and 2 - so you finally don´t need any regulation. Theoretically... But this supply is full of noise generated from the computer itself (main reason to put the A/Ds out of it). So the best way is to use the 12V path and regulate it to 9V and then for each unit seperately down to 5V. So you can eliminate most of the noise from the power cords. Interferences inside of the tower you can´t kill anyway and they will be transmitted into the analog inputs - not a grat deal... And very important: all analog grounds must be floating and never be connected together or with shield ground. This will increase input noise dramatically! IDE cable on AUD_EXT is okay, but I discovered, that you have to disconnect pin 4 directly on AUD_EXT-side, ´cause the 24 Mhz clock pulse there interferes with pin 6 SPDIF#2 input and makes receiving impossible. Hope this helps! TravelRec. __________________ Always take a look behind.

May 24, 2004, 02:39 PM	Thread Starter #54
TravelRec. Alternative Audioproductions Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Germany / Sachsen-Anhalt Posts: 1,710 Rep Power: 56	Okay, then give me some time to create the layout. But I can´t test it here - that task is on you. Have you the molex male port available? Then I will add the pads for it. Maybe you can send me a scan and the measurements in mm? Do you want to have an IDE-port (40pin) on the "bay" ? Which kind of sockets do you want to use? Print-versions or front-fixed with solder pins - please send me a model description, also with measurements. E-mail address is in your PM! Greetings! TravelRec. __________________ Always take a look behind.

May 26, 2004, 08:04 AM	Thread Starter #60
TravelRec. Alternative Audioproductions Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Germany / Sachsen-Anhalt Posts: 1,710 Rep Power: 56	Yes, and that´s finally that what I´ve made here : digital interfaces in the compi, analog circuits in breakout box and connections via opticals... If you have the all the circuitry in the compi you need also some switching logic to get the signals from <-> to outside. With the opticals you only have to attach or disattach a jack, if you need. It´s like a hardware-DSP . The problem is that the wires to the card (the ide-wire) should be as short as possible so you can´t connect things with long distances over a simple cable without any interferencing. Greetings! TravelRec. __________________ Always take a look behind.