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Jun 11, 2004, 12:09 PM
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#91
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Latest findings
Quote:
 but this needs some explanation:The I2S inputs are a bit different to the SPDIFs, so let´s call them "raw"-inputs. SPDIFs are generally resampled before passing the DSP - I2S not! That´s the problem here. Testing with direct recording mode gave absolutely clear sound without any clicks. The DSP itself produces them due to incompatibility of sample rate. I will try to re-connect the optical input via a hardware sample-rate-converter (connected directly over master-clock with the card) to have a 4-th digital input to all possible sample rates. For future projects this means: it could be better to connect ADCs directly over I2S to have [COLOR=orangered]NO[/COLOR] resampling between analog source and recording application anymore (if ADC is running on a card-feeded 48k sample rate). This should increase the sound quality just a bit more  . So, gimme some time...Greetings! TravelRec. 
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Jun 11, 2004, 12:39 PM
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#92 | |
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Apple Fanboy?
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thank you for all your research into this TravelRec… i haev given my teacher the list and he is seeing what he can do about each component
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Jun 17, 2004, 08:26 PM
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#93
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Hi all there!
I´m working successfully on a fully functional SPDIF to I2S interface that makes the two I2S inputs of Audigy 1 cards free accessible for the user. The device is now in the beta-status and it is based on Crystal´s CS8420 sample rate converter. So it´s possible to connect all custom samplerates from 32 up to 96 kHz to the I2S (that is fixed at 48kHz) to get 2 stereo inputs more. I have yet a dynamic range of 100 db via DSP and direct recording mode. RMAA and circuitry details will follow after the test phase. Thanks for reading this! TravelRec. P.S. If anybody knows or want to test wheather the Live and Audigy2 cards are able to use I2S independend from SPDIF, please reply here! P.P.S: for dj_stick: circuit is running on card´s clock and on card´s 5Vcc and it works!
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Last edited by TravelRec.; Jun 22, 2004 at 11:02 AM. |
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Jun 18, 2004, 05:41 PM
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#94 |
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Audigy 2 I2Ss testing...
Well, I would like to give a try, but since nobody actually discovered real AD_EXT at Audigys2 connector pinout (AUD_EXT at Audigys1 is different) testing could be whole trouble...
But, yes, I want to give it a try! (Hope it's not going to be a FRY...) Samir |
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Jun 22, 2004, 11:11 AM
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#95
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Hi Samir!
Unfortunately the I2S are inputs, so you can´t read anything on the pins if you don´t know where they are. SPDIF pins (outputs) you can find by a 6 Mhz waveform positive from ground or with an oscillograph you see the caracteristic pattern signal. SPDIF inputs are to find if you apply (over a safety resistor of say 1kOhms) an external SPDIF signal (TTL) on each pin of AD_EXT and watch to peak meters that you´ve applied before in DSP directly on prolog. The only way to sort the I2S pins is to find all others and the pins they are left then must be the I2S  . Sorry that I can´t be more precise yet. Maybe another user knows more...Greetings! TravelRec. P.S. Next week I´ll test direct connected ADC on I2S / results here! 
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Jun 22, 2004, 11:16 PM
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#96 |
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Yes, TravelRec, that's what I was thinking about, and I don't want to FRY anything...
But I was thinking this way: Since it REALLY ANNOYS  me for not being able to find ANY useful info about Audigy2 AD_EXT pinout anywhere over internet, I have decided that I'm going to try to find out every pin myself EVEN if it's going to FRY my card!!!But it would require your & other user's help (thanks for safety resistor advice)... This is what troubles me: 1. Is there any way that anyone who owns Audigy (1) could TRACE that IS2 pins from connector to emu10k2 chip? I think this could help finding actual 10k2 chip pinout, and since Audigy 2 uses almost same chip I could trace the signals back to AD_EXT connector... 2. Same thing about other signals like: MIDI in/out, general purpose inputs/outputs Any usefull info would help... Samir |
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Jun 23, 2004, 07:24 AM
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Thread Starter
#97
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Hi Samir!
Yes, it seems there´s no other way to check it out - so it´s a must be that I pull out my Audigy  and trace the lines to 10k2, I think I should wrap myself and the card in a big piece of aluminium foil that is tied to earth ground and warm up my oscillograph  . If this is the only way to discover the secret of AD_EXT, then okay... please stand by for the results.Greetings! TravelRec.
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Jun 23, 2004, 11:53 AM
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#98
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So guy(s), it´s done
 ...I hope there are no mistakes on my side (no warranty for nothing!!!) and this is the work-out for Audigy 1. I really don´t know whether the pins of the chip are the same for Audigy 2 and newer cards (probably they are reprogrammed for other layouts) so please be very very careful and proof the sense of what I´m posting here: [COLOR=orange]Pinout of most wanted 10K2 pins[/COLOR] http://www.electricstart.de/pic/10k2pins.gif I ohmed all these out with a high impedance ohm-meter with low test current (below 0.5mA), please take a similar instrument for your tests and reply here for comparision of facts! Greetings! TravelRec. P.S. My card is still working yet, hope yours too after testing ...
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Jun 23, 2004, 12:59 PM
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#99 | |
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Apple Fanboy?
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ok so all people have to do is trace those pins to the AD_EXT on the audigy 2? also the 10k2 chips pinout would be the same on both a1 and a2 boards
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Jun 23, 2004, 03:00 PM
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#100 |
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dj_stick:
> ok so all people have to do is trace those pins to the AD_EXT on the audigy 2? I DON'T recommend doing this at ALL! Do it ONLY if you REALLY know what you are doing! You may FRY your lovely Audigy cards... > also the 10k2 chips pinout would be the same on both a1 and a2 boards We only presume that it might be possible... So take care & stick to the TravelRec's recommendations... TravelRec: I hope i'll be able to do the tracing on my Audigy2 soon enough, first I'll have to move to my hometown (next week i think) to be able to use all the equipment... Und ich bin sehr dankbar for the info...
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Jun 23, 2004, 03:04 PM
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#101 | |
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Apple Fanboy?
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the 10k2 chips are most likely the same, it is only the ADC/DACs and the p16v chip that differentiate the cards
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Jun 23, 2004, 08:44 PM
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#102 |
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Jes, I hope, but since Creative calls their Audigy 2 chip "10k2.5"
nobody really knows...
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Jun 23, 2004, 11:37 PM
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#103 | |
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Apple Fanboy?
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they actually call it that? cheating marketers
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Jun 24, 2004, 07:12 AM
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Thread Starter
#104
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Quote:
 ), maybe some other users can help us with tracing and then we can compare... BTW Where you´ve learned german language ??? It´s better than my english hehe .Greetings and good luck! TravelRec.
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Jun 27, 2004, 10:52 PM
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#105 | |
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Quote:
Hej, I was able to trace almost ALL signals & I unrevealed 'very old question of the mankind' - AD_EXT connector... Most interesting about AD_EXT is that it does NOT HAVE additional SPDIF INPUTS!!! Only SPDIF input is at pin 5 at SPDIF_IO but everybody knows that... There are 3 SPDIF outputs, I've tested them, but who needs them! Pin 151 @ 10K2 (SPDIF IN1) goes to J1 connector, and it DOES NOT HAVE PINS at all! And, even worse, pin 152 @ 10K2 (SPDIF IN2) HAS BEEN GROUNDED!  People I really HATE Creative! More about I2Ss: There are no direct IS2 inputs from AD_EXT to 10K2! Seems that all inputs goes directly to P16V chip! (P16V is Audigy2 only HQ audio device for 24bit 96kHz audio) I also figured out that I2S output from PHILIPS ADC goes directly to P16V... It looks like P16V takes all I2S inputs for itself... There is only I2S in2 that I could trace to pin 158 @ 10K2, BUT IT IS SHARED with SPDIF0 OUT (pin9) trough somthing called A253. TravelRec: Do you know was ist A253?!? see this picture... That's not all! P16V is directly connected to 10K2 trough pins: 116 (!!!), 144, 148... Is it possible that P16V chip takes 3 I2S inputs, but also has 3 I2S outputs wich connects to 10K2 ??? I also managed to trace all pins for P16V chip, so it's not so great secret now... TravelRec: There are 3 pins at AD_EXT that goes to pins 131, 133, 160 @ 10K2. These could be general purpose inputs/outputs. I also PRESUME that pin 160 @ 10K2 could be General Purpose Input 0. This one can be used for 4.7kOhm trick to fake Audigy2 drive... Had you actually TRACED GP inputs / outputs??? I can't continue exploring without trying 4.7kOhm trick on my card... Danke again...
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Jun 28, 2004, 03:01 AM
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#106 | |
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Apple Fanboy?
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i think there are pinouts for the 10kx chips available that may help you, search the net for them
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Jun 28, 2004, 12:01 PM
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#107 |
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I was able to find 10K1 pinout, but 10K2 is unavailable...
If ANYBODY knows something about 10K2 chip PINOUT PLEASE REPLY! thanks!
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MU3NKA 3A HAPO6! Last edited by Samir; Feb 10, 2005 at 03:52 AM. |
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Jun 28, 2004, 12:08 PM
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#108 | |
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Apple Fanboy?
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i think creative are trying to hide all audigy 2 related stuff… AD_EXT pinout doesn't exist either…
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Jun 28, 2004, 07:51 PM
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#109
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Quote:
.Samir, thanks for your total research on audigy2. Unfortunately they @ creative´s wouldn´t continue the high-flight of AUD_EXT - grounded the SPDIF in, I can´t believe it !!!Quote:
Quote:
This will take some look into datasheets, if there are some... Pin 9 is definately an output, so I can´t understand the sharing ...Quote:
Other question: are there any pins of P16V available on AD_EXT ??? If yes, maybe they could be used for expanding??? Somehow the signals from a real bay must come inside the card, don´t you think??? Probably the P16V has a passing thru mode ??? There are many secrets to discover, I fear. Greetings! TravelRec.
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Jun 28, 2004, 10:06 PM
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#110 | ||
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Quote:
I need somebody willing to trace pins 23, 24, 10, 11 & 13 @ Audigy1 AUD_EXT. Pin 23 is the most important one... Only few pins, and it's all over! Quote:
[COLOR=orangered]Here's EVERYTHING i was able to discover:[/COLOR] AD_EXT complete trace!!! I just hope that somebody will trace pin 23 @ Audigy1 soon enough... if only i could get some sleep...
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MU3NKA 3A HAPO6! Last edited by Samir; Feb 10, 2005 at 03:51 AM. |
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Jun 28, 2004, 10:39 PM
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#111 |
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Forgot one more thing:
This is PRESUMED pinout of the P16V chip for your reference only! I wish anybody could correct me if i made any mistake... Nothing has been tested here, so use this info at your own risk! It seems important that P16V is just passing trough I2S signals... Also, P16V chip is the only IC that is directly connected to the ONLY ONE 24.576MHz crystal oscilator... Also, PHILIPS ADC I2S out goes DIRECTLY to P16V chip!!! I wonder what Eugene (or anybody else) would think about this??? How come P16V device is "separate PCI device with its own registers, etc, etc..." P16V chip pinout: Code:
24 13 | | | | | | | | | | | | +-o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o-+ | | | | | CA0151-DBS | | | | O | +-o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o-+ | | | | | | | | | | | | 1 12 1 - Vdd 2 - 24.576MHz out 3 - GND 4 - Vdd 5 - RESET (inverted) 6 - GND 7 - NC ? 8 - GND 9 - GND 10 - I2S out A (to pin 148 @ 10K2) 11 - I2S out B (to pin 144 @ 10K2) 12 - I2S out C (to pin 118 @ 10K2) 13 - I2S in A (from pin 21 @ AD_EXT) 14 - I2S in B (from pin 19 @ AD_EXT) 15 - I2S in C (from DATAOut @ PHILIPS ADC) 16 - I2S BitClock (to pin 13 @ AD_EXT) 17 - I2S FrameSync (to pin 15 @ AD_EXT) 18 - MASTERCLOCK OUT (to pin 17 @ AD_EXT; to pin 8 @ PHILIPS ADC; to pin 6 @ CS4382 DAC) 19 - NC ? 20 - +5V ? 21 - +5V ? 22 - XTL (24.576MHz Crystal) 23 - XTL (24.576MHz Crystal) 24 - GND
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MU3NKA 3A HAPO6! Last edited by Samir; Feb 10, 2005 at 03:54 AM. |
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Jun 30, 2004, 09:00 PM
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Thread Starter
#112
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Hi Samir!
Great work man !!!Unfortunately I´m offline for few days, so no more comment yet. Hope anyone is encouraged to try all out  !BTW: I made a mistake in electronic diagram @ electricstart with Analogue to SPDIF converter, a ground line was missed. It´s now corrected. For anyone who copied the old Target projects, please re-download the new ones! Have some great days! I´ll be back soon! TravelRec.
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Jul 1, 2004, 10:49 PM
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#113 |
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P16V details
For those interested. I have written a linux alsa driver that only talks to the P16V chip on the Audigy2 card.
http://www.superbug.demon.co.uk/alsa/p16v It bypasses the EMU10k2 chip and sends data via DMA from the CPU direct to the P16V chip. The current status is that it can play back anything up to 8 channels at 192khz and 24bit. :-) The card supports native speeds of: 44100, 48000, 96000, 19200 Hz. alsa automatically resamples for other rates sent to it. As I find out what different registers do, I will be adding support for them. I will try to get capture working next, so that I can find out which P16V register effects the Capture to Playback feedback. I have documented as many of the P16V registers as I can in the p16v.c file. |
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Jul 2, 2004, 01:22 AM
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#114 | |
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Quote:
jcdutton: This thread is bit more hardware related, and if you want to get in cotact with right people in faster manner try to reach Eugene Gavrilov (look for contact e-mail adress @ these pages...) Seems that Eugene (most important kX developer) is quite busy these days, proggraming kX i hope  & hasn't appeared on this forum for some time...nice things you figured out about p16v... there is one question i wish to ask you, it's more hardware-related: Everybody knows p16v is separate chip, but how come IT has it's own registers? I understand that you bypassed 10K2 & managed to acces separate registers via PCI & DMA, but how's that possible due to p16v chip itself, in pure hardware? P16v chip does not seem to have any direct connections to PCI bus, please see p16v pinout & AD_EXT trace i posted... Is it possible that p16v registers are part of 10K2 chip itself, but it IS separate PCI device??? thank you!
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Jul 2, 2004, 02:12 AM
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#115 | |
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Quote:
The IO ports of the 10K2 are 0xa800-0xa81f. The IO ports of the p16v are 0xa820-0xa83f. So I just program the IO ports between 0xa820 and 0xa83f. Up until now, no linux alsa driver has ever touched IO ports 0xa820-0xa83f. The older SB Live 10K1 only used IO ports 0xa800-0xa81f. |
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Jul 2, 2004, 01:37 PM
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#116 |
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And maybe what we call p16v is not p16v but simple switch (or router) and real p16v is inside main chip. Maybe this is something what always was in emu10k2, but was not used, or on audigy 1 it was used only for 96 kHz spdif output.
Why think I so ??? Because this is too big change for only one revision step Audigy 1 - emu10k2 rev 3 vs Audigy 2 - emu10k2 rev 4. Look at emu10k1 there are revision from 4 to 10 and only diffrences are fixed bugs and added support for 6 channel ac97. |
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Jul 2, 2004, 11:04 PM
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#117 |
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pzmt:
It has to be truth what you're thinking, one way or another... Now i wish if only Eugene could review this thread soon, and help us unreveal some stupid concepts that has been made secrets by creative (creative?  ). Anyways, WHERE IS Eugene?!? Anybody heard from him lately? I hope he's alive & well & doing some kick-ass kX programming...
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Jul 3, 2004, 06:15 PM
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#118 | |
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Quote:
I have a refurbished audigy2 that doesn't work well (clic clic clic all the time...) and I could test that
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Jul 3, 2004, 07:12 PM
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#119 | |
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Quote:
Well, here's pinout:Code:
+5V 1 >o 2 -
GND 3 o o 4 GND
SPDIF0 IN 5 o o 6 GND
GND 7 o o 8 GND
SPDIF0 OUT 9 o 10 -
- 11 12 -
13 o o 14 GND
15 o o 16 GND
17 o o 18 GND
19 o o 20 GND
21 o o 22 GND
GP in/out? 23 o o 24 GP in/out?
GP in/out? 25 o o 26 GND
27 o o 28 GND
29 o o 30 GND
31 o o 32 GND
33 o o 34
35 o o 36
37 o o 38 GND
39 o 40 -
You should connect +5V (pin 1) using 4.7kOhm ressistor to pins 23, 25, 24... Try connecting one, turn on PC & check kX 'About...' window for Audigy2 drive or similar thing... Turn off PC & check other two... Thank you!
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Jul 3, 2004, 08:20 PM
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#120 | |
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Quote:
 I didn't see audigy2 drive or something like that...
Last edited by Quenotte; Jul 3, 2004 at 08:43 PM. |
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