MTC, SMPTE video and audio sync

Daniel Drummond · May 27, 2004, 04:33 AM

Does anyone have info on what I need in terms of extra gear to be able to sync cubase (with audigy+kx) to a vcr to write music and add sound effects to video? Does anyone know a good online guide for that kind of magic? Thanks, Daniel.

**dj_stick** · May 27, 2004, 04:42 AM

i think you can sync via spdif clocks… audigy can slave to a master clock… but im not sure if your VCR has s/pdif?

Daniel Drummond · May 27, 2004, 05:04 AM

No, it's just a regular hi-fi stereo vcr... I don't think it's done through spdif though. I guess the code is recorded in the tape together with the music and sound.... Not sure though... I need a guide! hehe

TravelRec. · May 27, 2004, 06:10 AM

Hi!

Maybe I´m not the right one for this stuff, but I think it´s only possible to sync via the capture-card, since the video-tape must be the master, due to jitter effects of vcr´s.... Do you want to make music to prerecorded stuff or in realtime (is this possible???)??? Maybe other user has some knowledge about...

Greetings!

TravelRec.

miguel · May 27, 2004, 10:49 AM

I don't think your regular hi-fi vcr has any sync or timecode output. I can only suggest that you capture (or get someone to capture) the video for you. You can use a pci capture card or a DV camera with analog Input (more common these days)

My suggestion is that you do a good capture of the tape (in DV format o whatever fits you). Now you have consistent timecode of the sequence, the vcr was very likely unable to play the tape twice at the same speed, instead it tends to drift back and forth, although we dont notice while watching, it'd be a hell if you scored to one capture, then tried to sync your audio to another capture of the tape (been there myself for some stupid reason).

You can make a copy of the sequence at tiny resolution to load it on logic or whatever and sync your music and sfx to that. The smaller the resolution, the less resources it takes from logic. Ah for this tiny movie don't use any of divx xvid and similar codecs, those are not made to play around and constantly move around the timeline. Hufyuv (free, loseless) codec or some mjpeg (smaller files) codec decompress faster and you can scrub (priceless!), play backwards, etc in the timeline.

All the syncing stuff made more sense when computers didn't have the huge storage we have now. Of course it's full of exceptions. The other day I saw an audio workstation at George Lucas ranch (in a documentary, of course), it was synched to some digital video deck, but that's ok because the guy was playing full film resolution footage, and watching it on another big monitor connected to the deck. It would be hard for a music workstation to play that even without a music sequencer running at the same time...

regards

Daniel Drummond · May 27, 2004, 05:19 PM

Thanks for the suggestions, but I was wondering if there was a way not to capture the video. If I capture it, I'd have to send it back to tape afterwards, and there'd be a loss in image quality. I'd like something that would allow me to make the VCR move together with Cubase (respond to play, stop, ff, rew commands, frame by frame)... I don't know if a special VCR is needed... Maybe it is... Keep the ideas coming please.

Daniel Drummond · May 27, 2004, 05:37 PM

It looks like there's a way to store an analog signal to a vcr tape, which is in fact digital information. That will be "heard" by Cubase and it will sync itself to the tape. Fluttler/Wow on the tape won't matter, because Cubase will adjust itself accordingly... I'm investigating this. I want to be able to record music and sfx for TV commercials.

miguel · May 28, 2004, 02:59 AM

If the footage is in a regular vhs tape there's not much quality to lose, and your vcr cant record only audio to the tape so you'll have to re-record audio+video somewhere

Daniel Drummond · May 28, 2004, 04:41 AM

I've found some info here: http://videoexpert.home.att.net/index.htm specially right here: http://videoexpert.home.att.net/artic1/212smte.htm

TravelRec. · May 28, 2004, 06:26 AM

Hi Daniel!

Now I know what you really like to do - so, I still remember in the middle of the 90´s a VCR called SONY SLV-E810 was on the market with a feature to record stereo audio over existing picture information without destroying the pictures. Maybe you can get such a VCR or a similar type for a low price.

Greetings!

TravelRec.

miguel · May 28, 2004, 09:52 AM

Interesting read TravelRec., thank you.

May 27, 2004, 04:33 AM	#1
Daniel Drummond DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 1,137 Rep Power: 0	MTC, SMPTE video and audio sync Does anyone have info on what I need in terms of extra gear to be able to sync cubase (with audigy+kx) to a vcr to write music and add sound effects to video? Does anyone know a good online guide for that kind of magic? Thanks, Daniel. __________________ www.palcomp3.com.br/ed

May 27, 2004, 05:04 AM	Thread Starter #3
Daniel Drummond DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 1,137 Rep Power: 0	No, it's just a regular hi-fi stereo vcr... I don't think it's done through spdif though. I guess the code is recorded in the tape together with the music and sound.... Not sure though... I need a guide! hehe __________________ www.palcomp3.com.br/ed

May 27, 2004, 06:10 AM	#4
TravelRec. Alternative Audioproductions Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Germany / Sachsen-Anhalt Posts: 1,710 Rep Power: 0	Hi! Maybe I´m not the right one for this stuff, but I think it´s only possible to sync via the capture-card, since the video-tape must be the master, due to jitter effects of vcr´s.... Do you want to make music to prerecorded stuff or in realtime (is this possible???)??? Maybe other user has some knowledge about... Greetings! TravelRec. __________________ Always take a look behind.

May 27, 2004, 05:19 PM	Thread Starter #6
Daniel Drummond DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 1,137 Rep Power: 0	Thanks for the suggestions, but I was wondering if there was a way not to capture the video. If I capture it, I'd have to send it back to tape afterwards, and there'd be a loss in image quality. I'd like something that would allow me to make the VCR move together with Cubase (respond to play, stop, ff, rew commands, frame by frame)... I don't know if a special VCR is needed... Maybe it is... Keep the ideas coming please. __________________ www.palcomp3.com.br/ed

May 27, 2004, 05:37 PM	Thread Starter #7
Daniel Drummond DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 1,137 Rep Power: 0	It looks like there's a way to store an analog signal to a vcr tape, which is in fact digital information. That will be "heard" by Cubase and it will sync itself to the tape. Fluttler/Wow on the tape won't matter, because Cubase will adjust itself accordingly... I'm investigating this. I want to be able to record music and sfx for TV commercials. __________________ www.palcomp3.com.br/ed

May 27, 2004, 10:49 AM	#5
miguel DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 209 Rep Power: 0	I don't think your regular hi-fi vcr has any sync or timecode output. I can only suggest that you capture (or get someone to capture) the video for you. You can use a pci capture card or a DV camera with analog Input (more common these days) My suggestion is that you do a good capture of the tape (in DV format o whatever fits you). Now you have consistent timecode of the sequence, the vcr was very likely unable to play the tape twice at the same speed, instead it tends to drift back and forth, although we dont notice while watching, it'd be a hell if you scored to one capture, then tried to sync your audio to another capture of the tape (been there myself for some stupid reason). You can make a copy of the sequence at tiny resolution to load it on logic or whatever and sync your music and sfx to that. The smaller the resolution, the less resources it takes from logic. Ah for this tiny movie don't use any of divx xvid and similar codecs, those are not made to play around and constantly move around the timeline. Hufyuv (free, loseless) codec or some mjpeg (smaller files) codec decompress faster and you can scrub (priceless!), play backwards, etc in the timeline. All the syncing stuff made more sense when computers didn't have the huge storage we have now. Of course it's full of exceptions. The other day I saw an audio workstation at George Lucas ranch (in a documentary, of course), it was synched to some digital video deck, but that's ok because the guy was playing full film resolution footage, and watching it on another big monitor connected to the deck. It would be hard for a music workstation to play that even without a music sequencer running at the same time... regards

May 28, 2004, 02:59 AM	#8
miguel DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 209 Rep Power: 0	If the footage is in a regular vhs tape there's not much quality to lose, and your vcr cant record only audio to the tape so you'll have to re-record audio+video somewhere

May 28, 2004, 04:41 AM	Thread Starter #9
Daniel Drummond DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 1,137 Rep Power: 0	I've found some info here: http://videoexpert.home.att.net/index.htm specially right here: http://videoexpert.home.att.net/artic1/212smte.htm __________________ www.palcomp3.com.br/ed

May 28, 2004, 06:26 AM	#10
TravelRec. Alternative Audioproductions Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Germany / Sachsen-Anhalt Posts: 1,710 Rep Power: 0	Hi Daniel! Now I know what you really like to do - so, I still remember in the middle of the 90´s a VCR called SONY SLV-E810 was on the market with a feature to record stereo audio over existing picture information without destroying the pictures. Maybe you can get such a VCR or a similar type for a low price. Greetings! TravelRec. __________________ Always take a look behind.

May 28, 2004, 09:52 AM	#11
miguel DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 209 Rep Power: 0	Interesting read TravelRec., thank you.