Do you use KX+SB b/c it's cheap? If free,would you rather have a Delta 1010, EMU 1212

switzoid · Oct 16, 2004, 12:24 PM

Reading these posts...I almost get the impression that KX + SB is one of the best cards on the planet and higher priced cards are obsolete in a way. Or is this just a perceptual self medicating salve until more cash comes along?

I just want to know if you guys choose Kx+ Soundblaster Creative cards because they are very economical? This post is geared more toward home recording enthusiasts, as I understand SB makes a great cheap gamecard - a no brainer.

But for the home studio buffs

...how can you justify using a card that resamples when you could get an EMU 0404 or an M-Audio Audiophile, or even a 1212M, and have much better adacs, more processing power, more headroom, etc, etc, for just a little bit more dough?

Why not just get a pro card for cheap, or does it really not matter that Creative cards resample? In studio recordings, making demos, etc, does the SB resampling, lower quality adacs create a negative sound delta that most people could hear?

If recording with an Audigy or SB Live comes aurally 99.9 % close to an M-Audio, MOTU, or EMU 1212M or 1818M...then I would challenge those who waste money on pricier stuff.

For me this is a very practical question, as I am buying a second card, and don't know whether it's worth it to buy another of the more "professional" cards above, or just get an Audigy Platinum with a Live Drive II ?

I just want to be able to capture my recording sessions in such a way that, if I have a singularly unique moment, I don't want the take to be wasted on a session limited by a crappy SB Live soundcard. But if the SB sounds 99.9% the same as the pricier ones...or perhaps even 100% the same to 90% of the people...than I would buy the SB and give the rest to charity or something.

What do you think? Could I cut a record demo with a SB Live? Must I spend 200 bucks on a 1212m or 1010? I just want the minimum card with the maximum sound quality and features, and the Audigy Platinum purports to have it all for dirt cheap...or is this just a crazy notion from a quality home recording point of view. I don't game at all...just care about making John Lennon turn over in his grave with quality sound and rehashed Beatles melodies.

I really appreciate your comments as I am floundering in my research, and you guys seem very well informed.

Love,

Me

**dj_stick** · Oct 16, 2004, 10:16 PM

haha a card that doesn't resample… the emu cards use the 10k2 chip aswell…
i guess price is an issue, and many of the cheaper semi-pro cards don;t have the flexibility of kX
the pre-amps and ADC on the live/audigy drive should be quite fine for your purpose, but the quality of the more expensive cards increases as you pay

Nando Dominguez · Oct 17, 2004, 12:51 AM

My audigy2 sounds good enough for me. If you want to make John Lennon turn over in his grave this could be a good way.

Nando

ROBSCIX · Oct 17, 2004, 02:02 AM

I think maybe that is the issue, Maybe people myself included would love a rackmount 1010..but...I like to get best performance out of what I have..until I can get the interface I want.

thomasabarnes · Oct 17, 2004, 02:32 AM

Dude, If I could afford an E-MU 1820 I'd jump all over it! Thing is, I cant, so kX is the best for me with ths Audigy card I have.

thomasabarnes

Daniel Drummond · Oct 17, 2004, 07:04 AM

Not everyone can buy a better card and most better cards don't have the flexibility you get with Kx. For instance, a 1212m in Brazil costs over US$400,00 (because of import taxes) while an used sblive can be bought for US$15,00. That's a HUGE difference.

And DJ Stick, the newer emu cards have the 10k2 chip but they do not resample, unless you use the dsp effects (but you can use those in 24bit mode, 44 or 48khz without resampling). You can find a lenghty discussion about this here: http://forum.rightmark.org/topic.cgi?id=4:472

**dj_stick** · Oct 17, 2004, 07:32 AM

thanks for the info daniel

TravelRec. · Oct 17, 2004, 05:24 PM

Hi guys!

Everytime when I read "resample" a red bulb turns on in my brain and I ask myself - is there anyone on this world who can tell me the difference between a real 48kHz sample and a 48kHz -> 48kHz resampled sample??! Is there any audible difference anyway? I really don´t know. I´m making music since more than 20 years now (active and passive

) and I can´t hear any difference. But I hear a difference between a wave file and a 320kbps mp3 file of the same content, so my ears are working correctly, I think. So why don´t make a recording with one of that "resampling-cards" if there is no audible difference between a "non-resampling-card". If YOU can tell me the difference in sound of the ready-mixed audio from an Audigy compared to a "pro"-card - then I go to buy me another card just tomorrow and throw the old one away. But if you can´t - please let this discussion end here and let´s make some more music, okay??

Regards!
TravelRec.

ROBSCIX · Oct 17, 2004, 05:33 PM

Hear....here..!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tcmjr · Oct 17, 2004, 09:07 PM

"Is there anyone on this world who can tell me the difference between a real 48kHz sample and a 48kHz -> 48kHz resampled sample??! "

Yes there is , but they are 0,001% of us.

Doug W · Oct 18, 2004, 03:53 AM

If some extra money just floated my way, I would get some new mics and preamps and keep my Creative labs cards and the kX drivers.

TravelRec. · Oct 18, 2004, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Yes there is , but they are 0,001% of us.

I´m still looking forward to have contact with such a person to make a really hard testing

!

Quote:

If some extra money just floated my way, I would get some new mics and preamps and keep my Creative labs cards and the kX drivers.

Good point. I was looking on the market for a card that can do the same like my modded Audigy - but there isn´t one or it´s unpayable, so stay cool

.

Greetings!
TravelRec.

Doug W · Oct 18, 2004, 02:46 PM

TravelRec

I do need a new mic preamp. I should try your preamp design since I have half the parts laying around in the basement anyway from former projects that I no longer use.

That is one small preamp-the size of a matchstick!

Tiger M · Oct 18, 2004, 03:21 PM

I don't know of another piece of software different from kX that would give me such great flexibility in controlling every aspect of my sound as kX does. Of course this is because I can control the DSP in the most subtle way - through programming it

TravelRec. · Oct 19, 2004, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug W

That is one small preamp-the size of a matchstick!

Yep, of course - if you want to try with SMD-components, you could use the design in the net, if you want to use standard ones, then wait a bit - I will post a standard pcb for users with big fingers

!

Greetings!
TravelRec.

P.S. Finally you can make your own design since the schematic is out.

switzoid · Oct 19, 2004, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomasabarnes

Dude, If I could afford an E-MU 1820 I'd jump all over it! Thing is, I cant, so kX is the best for me with ths Audigy card I have.

thomasabarnes

Yes...but would you get appreciably better recording/sound output than an audigy?

I just read that the 1820 uses the same dacs:
CS4392 PCM1804 which can be evinced here:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mul...igy2-zs_6.html

So..I just bought an 1820...and now I am not so sure I should not have just gotten a used audigy 2 platinum pro...same dacs...hmmmm. I haven't seen a recording quality comparison of the two...THAT would be interesting.

switzoid · Oct 19, 2004, 07:47 AM

That's what I'm talkin' about G! I want a side to side, head to head RECORDING comparison between the Audigy 2 Platinum Pro and the EMU 1820, which both use the CS4392 PCM1804 dac set. Even if RMAA sees a difference, how substantial, and can the human ear tell the difference...especially in a final mixdown of real complex music, and not just some RMAA sine wave!!! Hey hey hey! (done in Rick James SuperFreak tune)

Love,

Me

switzoid · Oct 19, 2004, 08:03 AM

Hey...what kind of mods did you do? I found this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...130141647&rd=1 where a guy modded a emu 1212m:

Opamp switch
Analog cap mod
Digital cap mod
Class-A bias

[color=#ff0000]"All new components are Black Gate!!!!"[/color]
[color=#ff0000][/color]
[color=#ff0000]Did you do any of this? Could these be done on an Audigy 2 Platinum? I mean...would it be better to mod an audigy than to pay 500.00 for an emu 1820m?[/color]
[color=#ff0000][/color]
[color=#ff0000]Love,[/color]
[color=#ff0000][/color]
[color=#ff0000]Me[/color]
[color=#ff0000][/color]
[color=#ff0000]Sorry for the big letters - my cut and paste did that.[/color]

Doug W · Oct 19, 2004, 03:42 PM

switzoid,

I think that most, if not all the kX users know that there are cards out there that would do better in tests. The Creative Labs cards are somewhat noisy. But that noise will be covered up with good or crappy music, depending on the skill of whoever is recording.

You may or may not know that the Beatles made the "Sgt. Pepper's" album by taking scapings from pencils, adding bleach and blowing their way out of a prison cell...

Maybe I have that mixed up with a MacGyver episode. But the point is that if MacGyver needed to make a multitrack recording to stop terrorists from blowing up the world and he bought an E-MU 1820 from Musician's Friend with his VISA, the show would have gotten really poor ratings. BUT, if he had hooked 3 Creative Labs cards together with SPDIF cables, used an ancient 286 laptop to download the kX drivers with a TEXT based WEB browser, after tapping into the terrorists phone lines, now we're talking great television!

And that is why I use the kX drivers.

Regards,

Doug W

switzoid · Oct 19, 2004, 04:02 PM

You may or may not know that the Beatles made the "Sgt. Pepper's" album by taking scapings from pencils, adding bleach and blowing their way out of a prison cell...

Maybe I have that mixed up with a MacGyver episode.

AAAAAAAAAAAaaahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!! Funniest thing I've heard in a while

Brilliant!!!!! The world is worth saving after all.

however, a Sb Live, would get you no punanny points if Brittanny Spears walked into your studio and said, "I wont tu make sweet sweet music with you...but first...a littol looksee at the equipment hey hey?" Or....would it.....

(Yes...in the presence of a Beatles reference, everyone takes on a British accent.)

peate · Oct 19, 2004, 04:02 PM

LOL

. That's the best scenario I've read in a long time.

Pierre

Tiger M · Oct 19, 2004, 05:20 PM

Great imagination no doubt...

Oct 16, 2004, 12:24 PM	#1
switzoid DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 35 Rep Power: 0	Do you use KX+SB b/c it's cheap? If free,would you rather have a Delta 1010, EMU 1212 Reading these posts...I almost get the impression that KX + SB is one of the best cards on the planet and higher priced cards are obsolete in a way. Or is this just a perceptual self medicating salve until more cash comes along? I just want to know if you guys choose Kx+ Soundblaster Creative cards because they are very economical? This post is geared more toward home recording enthusiasts, as I understand SB makes a great cheap gamecard - a no brainer. But for the home studio buffs ...how can you justify using a card that resamples when you could get an EMU 0404 or an M-Audio Audiophile, or even a 1212M, and have much better adacs, more processing power, more headroom, etc, etc, for just a little bit more dough? Why not just get a pro card for cheap, or does it really not matter that Creative cards resample? In studio recordings, making demos, etc, does the SB resampling, lower quality adacs create a negative sound delta that most people could hear? If recording with an Audigy or SB Live comes aurally 99.9 % close to an M-Audio, MOTU, or EMU 1212M or 1818M...then I would challenge those who waste money on pricier stuff. For me this is a very practical question, as I am buying a second card, and don't know whether it's worth it to buy another of the more "professional" cards above, or just get an Audigy Platinum with a Live Drive II ? I just want to be able to capture my recording sessions in such a way that, if I have a singularly unique moment, I don't want the take to be wasted on a session limited by a crappy SB Live soundcard. But if the SB sounds 99.9% the same as the pricier ones...or perhaps even 100% the same to 90% of the people...than I would buy the SB and give the rest to charity or something. What do you think? Could I cut a record demo with a SB Live? Must I spend 200 bucks on a 1212m or 1010? I just want the minimum card with the maximum sound quality and features, and the Audigy Platinum purports to have it all for dirt cheap...or is this just a crazy notion from a quality home recording point of view. I don't game at all...just care about making John Lennon turn over in his grave with quality sound and rehashed Beatles melodies. I really appreciate your comments as I am floundering in my research, and you guys seem very well informed. Love, Me

Oct 17, 2004, 02:32 AM	#5
thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,375 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Dude, If I could afford an E-MU 1820 I'd jump all over it! Thing is, I cant, so kX is the best for me with ths Audigy card I have. thomasabarnes __________________ May a song always touch you in a positive way. SONAR X1D Expanded, Windows 7 Pro 64Bit, MOTU UltraLite MK3, 150 GB HDD, 250 GB HDD, 1 TB x2 HDD 7200 rpm My Music Production: Top 40, Contemporary Christian, Pop/Rock, Decent Rap, Inspirationals, and Children Songs

Oct 17, 2004, 07:04 AM	#6
Daniel Drummond DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 1,137 Rep Power: 0	Not everyone can buy a better card and most better cards don't have the flexibility you get with Kx. For instance, a 1212m in Brazil costs over US$400,00 (because of import taxes) while an used sblive can be bought for US$15,00. That's a HUGE difference. And DJ Stick, the newer emu cards have the 10k2 chip but they do not resample, unless you use the dsp effects (but you can use those in 24bit mode, 44 or 48khz without resampling). You can find a lenghty discussion about this here: http://forum.rightmark.org/topic.cgi?id=4:472 __________________ www.palcomp3.com.br/ed

Oct 17, 2004, 05:24 PM	#8
TravelRec. Alternative Audioproductions Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Germany / Sachsen-Anhalt Posts: 1,710 Rep Power: 0	Hi guys! Everytime when I read "resample" a red bulb turns on in my brain and I ask myself - is there anyone on this world who can tell me the difference between a real 48kHz sample and a 48kHz -> 48kHz resampled sample??! Is there any audible difference anyway? I really don´t know. I´m making music since more than 20 years now (active and passive ) and I can´t hear any difference. But I hear a difference between a wave file and a 320kbps mp3 file of the same content, so my ears are working correctly, I think. So why don´t make a recording with one of that "resampling-cards" if there is no audible difference between a "non-resampling-card". If YOU can tell me the difference in sound of the ready-mixed audio from an Audigy compared to a "pro"-card - then I go to buy me another card just tomorrow and throw the old one away. But if you can´t - please let this discussion end here and let´s make some more music, okay?? Regards! TravelRec. __________________ Always take a look behind.

Oct 17, 2004, 09:07 PM	#10
tcmjr The Boy Next Door Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro , Brazil Posts: 12 Rep Power: 0	"Is there anyone on this world who can tell me the difference between a real 48kHz sample and a 48kHz -> 48kHz resampled sample??! " Yes there is , but they are 0,001% of us. __________________ Sony 21" / Enermax 465p /Abit Kd7-Raid / Athlon XP 1800+ / Radeon 7000 PCI / 1 GB Corsair 2700 XMS / Audigy 1 Platinum @ KX / 1x80Gb Samsung 1x120 WD SE.

Oct 17, 2004, 12:51 AM	#3
Nando Dominguez DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Spain Posts: 280 Rep Power: 0	My audigy2 sounds good enough for me. If you want to make John Lennon turn over in his grave this could be a good way. Nando

Oct 17, 2004, 02:02 AM	#4
ROBSCIX DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,732 Rep Power: 0	I think maybe that is the issue, Maybe people myself included would love a rackmount 1010..but...I like to get best performance out of what I have..until I can get the interface I want.

Oct 17, 2004, 05:33 PM	#9
ROBSCIX DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,732 Rep Power: 0	Hear....here..!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oct 18, 2004, 03:53 AM	#11
Doug W HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Montevideo, MN USA Posts: 973 Rep Power: 0	If some extra money just floated my way, I would get some new mics and preamps and keep my Creative labs cards and the kX drivers.

Oct 18, 2004, 02:46 PM	#13
Doug W HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Montevideo, MN USA Posts: 973 Rep Power: 0	TravelRec I do need a new mic preamp. I should try your preamp design since I have half the parts laying around in the basement anyway from former projects that I no longer use. That is one small preamp-the size of a matchstick!

Oct 18, 2004, 03:21 PM	#14
Tiger M kX user Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 851 Rep Power: 0	I don't know of another piece of software different from kX that would give me such great flexibility in controlling every aspect of my sound as kX does. Of course this is because I can control the DSP in the most subtle way - through programming it __________________ Miss you, Steve...

Oct 19, 2004, 07:47 AM	Thread Starter #17
switzoid DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 35 Rep Power: 0	That's what I'm talkin' about G! I want a side to side, head to head RECORDING comparison between the Audigy 2 Platinum Pro and the EMU 1820, which both use the CS4392 PCM1804 dac set. Even if RMAA sees a difference, how substantial, and can the human ear tell the difference...especially in a final mixdown of real complex music, and not just some RMAA sine wave!!! Hey hey hey! (done in Rick James SuperFreak tune) Love, Me

Oct 19, 2004, 08:03 AM	Thread Starter #18
switzoid DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 35 Rep Power: 0	Hey...what kind of mods did you do? I found this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...130141647&rd=1 where a guy modded a emu 1212m: Opamp switch Analog cap mod Digital cap mod Class-A bias [color=#ff0000]"All new components are Black Gate!!!!"[/color] [color=#ff0000][/color] [color=#ff0000]Did you do any of this? Could these be done on an Audigy 2 Platinum? I mean...would it be better to mod an audigy than to pay 500.00 for an emu 1820m?[/color] [color=#ff0000][/color] [color=#ff0000]Love,[/color] [color=#ff0000][/color] [color=#ff0000]Me[/color] [color=#ff0000][/color] [color=#ff0000]Sorry for the big letters - my cut and paste did that.[/color]

Oct 19, 2004, 03:42 PM	#19
Doug W HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Montevideo, MN USA Posts: 973 Rep Power: 0	switzoid, I think that most, if not all the kX users know that there are cards out there that would do better in tests. The Creative Labs cards are somewhat noisy. But that noise will be covered up with good or crappy music, depending on the skill of whoever is recording. You may or may not know that the Beatles made the "Sgt. Pepper's" album by taking scapings from pencils, adding bleach and blowing their way out of a prison cell... Maybe I have that mixed up with a MacGyver episode. But the point is that if MacGyver needed to make a multitrack recording to stop terrorists from blowing up the world and he bought an E-MU 1820 from Musician's Friend with his VISA, the show would have gotten really poor ratings. BUT, if he had hooked 3 Creative Labs cards together with SPDIF cables, used an ancient 286 laptop to download the kX drivers with a TEXT based WEB browser, after tapping into the terrorists phone lines, now we're talking great television! And that is why I use the kX drivers. Regards, Doug W

Oct 19, 2004, 04:02 PM	Thread Starter #20
switzoid DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 35 Rep Power: 0	You may or may not know that the Beatles made the "Sgt. Pepper's" album by taking scapings from pencils, adding bleach and blowing their way out of a prison cell... Maybe I have that mixed up with a MacGyver episode. AAAAAAAAAAAaaahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!! Funniest thing I've heard in a while Brilliant!!!!! The world is worth saving after all. however, a Sb Live, would get you no punanny points if Brittanny Spears walked into your studio and said, "I wont tu make sweet sweet music with you...but first...a littol looksee at the equipment hey hey?" Or....would it..... (Yes...in the presence of a Beatles reference, everyone takes on a British accent.)

Oct 19, 2004, 04:02 PM	#21
peate HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 409 Rep Power: 57	LOL . That's the best scenario I've read in a long time. Pierre

Oct 19, 2004, 05:20 PM	#22
Tiger M kX user Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 851 Rep Power: 0	Great imagination no doubt... __________________ Miss you, Steve...