duplex recording - help please!

jbravo · Jun 3, 2005, 11:09 PM

Hi

I've installed KX for my SBlive card, with the default routings except for an equaliser instead of the timbre plugin. Using the default windows drivers I was able to play a file in windows mediaplayer and record the output in a wave editor, but now when I try it, the play back of the recorded wav sounds bad, as if it's breaking up and the cpu was too busy to record smoothly...

the recording setting is set to ID0: KX wave CT 4670 10k1 (e000) 0/1

I presume I need to change some of the routing somewhere to get this working smoothly but I haven't got a clue where to start - can someone help me please!

update: I've changed the audio setting in windows control panel so that the playback and recording have different settings and it's better but now the recorded file is still slightly glitchy and plays back faster than it should presumably because it wasn't recording correctly...

Nappylady · Jun 4, 2005, 03:24 AM

Is it playing back exactly twice as fast, or at an odd speed?

Also, what version of the drivers are you using?

I've run into something like this when recording with ASIO. I recorded my old high school choir and, to my chagrin, every time the hard drive moved, it just... lost some samples. So every few seconds, for half a second at a time, they're suddenly going triple-speed. No fun.

What program are you using to record?

jbravo · Jun 4, 2005, 08:11 AM

hi, i'm using v 5.10.00.3534. I have onboard AC97 sound and a PCI card which is soundblaster live value. I've had the same problem recording with either of them. I think the KX drivers are only installed for the SBlive card because the AC97 settings appear to be the same as before installation - though to be honest I'm really not sure. I just did the normal installation and assumed it would do whatever is necessary. The SBlive settings have been replaced with KX settings anyway.

The change in speed/pitch is not double but only slightly. I think it might be a sampling rate issue because when if I use the KX ASIO in FLStudio it has the same effect and I have to change the sample rate from 44k to 48k to get it sounding right - whereas normally I'd leave it at 44k with my usual asio driver and speed/pitch would be unaffected. How to apply that to duplex recording I don't know...

the wav editor I was using is NGwave but I don't think it's that at fault judging by the other weird behaviour

Nappylady · Jun 4, 2005, 02:05 PM

Okay. your first move should be to update to 3537, or 3538 if you think you can handle the upgrade path. (Uninstall, then go to the sticky thread on how to install 3538, and follow those directions.)

ASIO in kX only works at 48khz.

I suspect that increasing your ASIO latency will help solve the problem, but I can't be sure. I never verified that this was the problem in my setup...

Is it possible for you to post a short .wav file containing the type of distortion you're experiencing?

jbravo · Jun 4, 2005, 10:34 PM

thanks nappylady. I upgraded to 3537 cos it looked easier to install but the problem is the same. Here's an mp3 of sound recorded on 0/1 while being played back on 4/5

http://komosa.brinkster.net/kxtest2.mp3

Also I've tried removing the timbre plugin in the DSP router and adding an EQ but it tells me there are no free GPR registers, even though the removal and unloading of the timbre plugin presumably should free them up - I'm sure that's what I did on the previous version

Doug W · Jun 4, 2005, 10:51 PM

Did you try increasing the latency and set your card to 48khz like Nappylady said?

jbravo · Jun 4, 2005, 11:28 PM

Hi Doug, I just tried it with those changed settings but still the same unfortunately

Nappylady · Jun 4, 2005, 11:33 PM

Well... if you're using WinMM recording, then the latency settings in the driver won't help.

This is a different problem than the one I ran into last year. It definitely sounds like not enough bandwidth getting to the card.

Can you give us a complete list of all the devices you have on your PCI bus? (Including devices built into your motherboard, like IDE or SATA controllers, sound cards, modems, NICs, etc.)

Also--How is the sound data getting stored? Is it an internal hard disk, (IDE or SATA?) or a USB / Firewire device? Is there some kind of write caching going on that's disrupting your recording? Have you changed any hard drive or HD controller settings that might be affecting HD performance?

EDIT: Whoops. I just noticed that you said you have the same recording problem with AC97 *and* with the Live!. In that case--try disabling your onboard AC97 sound. Also, tell us what kind of CPU / motherboard / chipset you have, and how fast they are clocked. (If you know the front-side bus speed, that could be helpful too.)

jbravo · Jun 4, 2005, 11:44 PM

I'm using an internal hard disk - actually there's two. Not sure if they're IDE or SATA but it's the standard ribbon cables connecting them to the motherboard. Sorry I'm not very good at the technical details. I haven't made any hardware changes except a new radeon graphics card recently. Here are some screen grabs from the device manager which should hopefully tell you all the details you asked for - if not let me know and how to check them.

http://komosa.brinkster.net/hardware1.gif
http://komosa.brinkster.net/hardware2.gif

Nappylady · Jun 5, 2005, 12:54 AM

It's interesting that you have two video cards. Are they both PCI? Or is that actually one video card that's showing up twice so you can use dual-head features?

Do you have any USB or firewire devices attached?

jbravo · Jun 5, 2005, 08:34 AM

it's just one video card. I presume it shows up twice for the reason you mentioned. I normally have several USB devices attached but at the moment it's just a midi controller keyboard

Jun 3, 2005, 11:09 PM	#1
jbravo DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6 Rep Power: 0	duplex recording - help please! Hi I've installed KX for my SBlive card, with the default routings except for an equaliser instead of the timbre plugin. Using the default windows drivers I was able to play a file in windows mediaplayer and record the output in a wave editor, but now when I try it, the play back of the recorded wav sounds bad, as if it's breaking up and the cpu was too busy to record smoothly... the recording setting is set to ID0: KX wave CT 4670 10k1 (e000) 0/1 I presume I need to change some of the routing somewhere to get this working smoothly but I haven't got a clue where to start - can someone help me please! update: I've changed the audio setting in windows control panel so that the playback and recording have different settings and it's better but now the recorded file is still slightly glitchy and plays back faster than it should presumably because it wasn't recording correctly... Last edited by jbravo; Jun 3, 2005 at 11:24 PM.

Jun 4, 2005, 03:24 AM	#2
Nappylady DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 257 Rep Power: 0	Is it playing back exactly twice as fast, or at an odd speed? Also, what version of the drivers are you using? I've run into something like this when recording with ASIO. I recorded my old high school choir and, to my chagrin, every time the hard drive moved, it just... lost some samples. So every few seconds, for half a second at a time, they're suddenly going triple-speed. No fun. What program are you using to record?

Jun 4, 2005, 08:11 AM	Thread Starter #3
jbravo DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6 Rep Power: 0	hi, i'm using v 5.10.00.3534. I have onboard AC97 sound and a PCI card which is soundblaster live value. I've had the same problem recording with either of them. I think the KX drivers are only installed for the SBlive card because the AC97 settings appear to be the same as before installation - though to be honest I'm really not sure. I just did the normal installation and assumed it would do whatever is necessary. The SBlive settings have been replaced with KX settings anyway. The change in speed/pitch is not double but only slightly. I think it might be a sampling rate issue because when if I use the KX ASIO in FLStudio it has the same effect and I have to change the sample rate from 44k to 48k to get it sounding right - whereas normally I'd leave it at 44k with my usual asio driver and speed/pitch would be unaffected. How to apply that to duplex recording I don't know... the wav editor I was using is NGwave but I don't think it's that at fault judging by the other weird behaviour

Jun 4, 2005, 02:05 PM	#4
Nappylady DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 257 Rep Power: 0	Okay. your first move should be to update to 3537, or 3538 if you think you can handle the upgrade path. (Uninstall, then go to the sticky thread on how to install 3538, and follow those directions.) ASIO in kX only works at 48khz. I suspect that increasing your ASIO latency will help solve the problem, but I can't be sure. I never verified that this was the problem in my setup... Is it possible for you to post a short .wav file containing the type of distortion you're experiencing?

Jun 4, 2005, 10:34 PM	Thread Starter #5
jbravo DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6 Rep Power: 0	thanks nappylady. I upgraded to 3537 cos it looked easier to install but the problem is the same. Here's an mp3 of sound recorded on 0/1 while being played back on 4/5 http://komosa.brinkster.net/kxtest2.mp3 Also I've tried removing the timbre plugin in the DSP router and adding an EQ but it tells me there are no free GPR registers, even though the removal and unloading of the timbre plugin presumably should free them up - I'm sure that's what I did on the previous version

Jun 4, 2005, 10:51 PM	#6
Doug W HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Montevideo, MN USA Posts: 973 Rep Power: 0	Did you try increasing the latency and set your card to 48khz like Nappylady said?

Jun 4, 2005, 11:28 PM	Thread Starter #7
jbravo DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6 Rep Power: 0	Hi Doug, I just tried it with those changed settings but still the same unfortunately

Jun 4, 2005, 11:33 PM	#8
Nappylady DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 257 Rep Power: 0	Well... if you're using WinMM recording, then the latency settings in the driver won't help. This is a different problem than the one I ran into last year. It definitely sounds like not enough bandwidth getting to the card. Can you give us a complete list of all the devices you have on your PCI bus? (Including devices built into your motherboard, like IDE or SATA controllers, sound cards, modems, NICs, etc.) Also--How is the sound data getting stored? Is it an internal hard disk, (IDE or SATA?) or a USB / Firewire device? Is there some kind of write caching going on that's disrupting your recording? Have you changed any hard drive or HD controller settings that might be affecting HD performance? EDIT: Whoops. I just noticed that you said you have the same recording problem with AC97 and with the Live!. In that case--try disabling your onboard AC97 sound. Also, tell us what kind of CPU / motherboard / chipset you have, and how fast they are clocked. (If you know the front-side bus speed, that could be helpful too.)

Jun 4, 2005, 11:44 PM	Thread Starter #9
jbravo DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6 Rep Power: 0	I'm using an internal hard disk - actually there's two. Not sure if they're IDE or SATA but it's the standard ribbon cables connecting them to the motherboard. Sorry I'm not very good at the technical details. I haven't made any hardware changes except a new radeon graphics card recently. Here are some screen grabs from the device manager which should hopefully tell you all the details you asked for - if not let me know and how to check them. http://komosa.brinkster.net/hardware1.gif http://komosa.brinkster.net/hardware2.gif

Jun 5, 2005, 12:54 AM	#10
Nappylady DriverHeaven Addict Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 257 Rep Power: 0	It's interesting that you have two video cards. Are they both PCI? Or is that actually one video card that's showing up twice so you can use dual-head features? Do you have any USB or firewire devices attached?

Jun 5, 2005, 08:34 AM	Thread Starter #11
jbravo DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6 Rep Power: 0	it's just one video card. I presume it shows up twice for the reason you mentioned. I normally have several USB devices attached but at the moment it's just a midi controller keyboard