Cretive X-fi and KX

JGSF · Jun 22, 2005, 11:57 AM

I just wish that one day it could be possible to use Kx with X-fi...

I'm so used to kx by now that I can't imagine the limits with a totally configurable DSP and the X-fi chip under the hood...

Just thinking loud... forgive me.

Tiger M · Jun 22, 2005, 03:12 PM

I wish that too.

Samir · Jun 23, 2005, 02:42 PM

I wish someone clone Eugene...

adi111p · Jun 28, 2005, 01:49 PM

I wish "someone" would "donate" a large sum of money to Eugene to make this happening

JGSF · Jun 28, 2005, 02:08 PM

I can't donate a large sum, since I still don't have a job, but I could donate some for sure...

ROBSCIX · Jun 28, 2005, 08:58 PM

This chip is based on the 10K series though isn't it?...now the original pentium chips were just a bunch of 486 CHips connected together correct?..now this XIFI chip is a bunch of 10KX chips connected together 4 of them isn't it?

JGSF · Jun 28, 2005, 09:40 PM

Man, that's really a colossal lie (all that you said)... Where did you read that?

thomasabarnes · Jun 28, 2005, 10:17 PM

He was just asking man. ROBSCIX the X-FI is a new chip. I'm waiting to see some products that use it. Anybody know if any are out yet?

ROBSCIX · Jun 28, 2005, 10:40 PM

YES, I know the X-Fi is new chip but in theory isnt tha't what the chip basically is? Or maybe I was misunderstanding the info...The architecture is new but it is a innovative approach using proven technologies arraged to produce a new DSP..Then again I might be way off the mark..

adi111p · Jun 28, 2005, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny1982

I can't donate a large sum, since I still don't have a job, but I could donate some for sure...

heh, you didn't get me

[I wish "someone" would "donate" a large sum of money to Eugene to make this happening [img]images/blue_heaven/smilies/wink.gif[/img]]

where:

"someone" = i was hiddenly reffering to Creative

"donate" = in Creative's case should mean: hire Eugene with a huge salary as nobody from Creative was able to make this kind of driver .... and even more, didn't even think of an idea like this ...

I think that for any musician's soundcard a driver like Kx is a MUST!!!

adi111p · Jun 29, 2005, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROBSCIX

YES, I know the X-Fi is new chip but in theory isnt tha't what the chip basically is? Or maybe I was misunderstanding the info...The architecture is new but it is a innovative approach using proven technologies arraged to produce a new DSP..Then again I might be way off the mark..

well, to make a parallel to the difference betwen 10kX and X-Fi take the following comparison: AMD K6 and AMD Athlon, they both are CPU-s and both have MMX... so why doesn't an Athlon fit in the K6's mobo? Well, because they changed the architecture, and it won't work with the K6's northbridge ....

so the idea is that XFi is totally different from 10Kx...

the difference between the 10k1 and 10k2 is exactly the difference between a computer with 256MB RAM and another computer with exactly the same components but with 1GB RAM, no change in architecture, just added some DSP power (if we ignore the stupid workaround to get 24bit/96khz output to creative's products)

Daniel Drummond · Jun 29, 2005, 12:12 AM

If whis is a wishes thread... I wish kX supported 1212m and other emu DAS...

JGSF · Jun 29, 2005, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomasabarnes

He was just asking man.

And I was just answering...

Whatever it was the source of information, it was wrong.

ROBSCIX · Jun 29, 2005, 12:43 AM

Nobody has seen what the drivers for the new card yet. I hope they take a modular approach. Given the way the are hyping the card up, I hope they put in the work on the drivers...then again we know what creative is like with their drivers that is why most of us are here. As far As The other info was going I was guessing that based on the info...of the quartet DSP..this new architecture has 4 sub processors. Usually companies work with technology they already own and understand when designing new products. I figured was take a 10KX series chip and multiplex it.. Sort of how the orignial 10KX processors ended up in gamer cards they were taken from E-MU..etc..etc. We haven't seen any new advances for how long? the 10KX series has been around for quite a long time. I wasn't saying I was right..Or that I read it anywhere..Just seems plausible...But I also said I could be way off..people should read the whole post instead of jumping on it without understanding what the person was even talking about.... anyway new card..new drivers..new issues..

thomasabarnes · Jun 29, 2005, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny1982

And I was just answering...

Whatever it was the source of information, it was wrong.

Sorry Johnny. I didnt mean to offend you. Just wanted to convey that ROBSCIX wasnt sure about the new chip, so he needed some enlightenment.

LOL at Daniel D, man u have a pro card and still think kX can give you a benefit, that's some nice praise. Funny that people over at the SONAR forum even ridicule the EMU DAS series. I tell 'em that a compatible Creative sound card with kX is not a peice of junk! I'm aware that procards have some better quality D/A and A/D converters and sample rate specifications among some other features, but that doesnt mean a Creative card is a peice of junk because it's possible to do music production at the CD standard or 16/44.1.

They're finally getting off my back about it and revealing that the Creative software is the main problem. I have to repeat that the kX routing capability is truely incredible!

If this new X-FI chip is as good as it sounds and we can get a soundcard with at least 24/96 features and kX to support it, kX will be bout the badest software for music production on the planet. LOL

ROBSCIX · Jun 29, 2005, 01:23 AM

Yeah, it is nice though an actual hardware change from the same 'ol same 'ol Maybe after the 100's of complaints they get and the screaming users on the tech support lines hopefully they will take a better approach to their drivers. I purchased a SB 24 bit awhile ago for a test run and a review for a friend. The drivers seemed like they were far from being release. Went to the site and of course not updates. I think sometimes they are in such a rush to get the new card to market they forget to put the work and the polish into the drivers. I think I am gonna test drive one when they come out.. I'll have to...But you said it all th only thing wrong with Creative is their software, it leaves alot to be desired...especially when using it in any serious fashion trying to make some music..

JGSF · Jun 29, 2005, 01:43 AM

There was no offense

I was just emphasising that whoever told ROBSCIX that pentium 1's were nothing more than a bunch of 486's or X-fi a bunch of emu10kx chips was wrong.

Sorry if it sounded agressive, I didn't say in that mood.

ROBSCIX · Jun 29, 2005, 01:53 AM

ABout the pentiums I forget about that one..could be remembering it wrong..lol probably am....I think everyone just hopes we don't get another set of bum drivers with this new card...oh well, have to wait and see I imagine there will be a FLOOD of reviews to hit the net...

adi111p · Jun 29, 2005, 05:14 PM

About the drivers, there are 2 ways of creating them (i mean from creative's point of view):

1) use the "unified driver" release, that means, drivers for sblive/audigy/XFi in the same package and with common files ...

-this would be a wrong idea, 100% there will be tones of driver issues for XFi, and a totally resource hoq problem
-they changed the architecture of the DSP from 10kX so the software architecture will be totally different, so testing will be awfull
-I hope they will not go with this idea, I mean 10kX and XFi are not like Radeon series or NForcex series, so it would be stupid to support the "unified drivers" idea

2) use a new driver, apart from sblive/audigy series
- this would be the right choice if they want to help us, and save us from driver headakes!
- a good idea is to make unified drivers but for the xfi series ...

this is my opinion ....

ROBSCIX · Jun 29, 2005, 07:05 PM

You are 100% correct, I have yet to see a New Creative Product thats released with a set of drivers that function exactly to specification. They never do. You buy the cards (before KX) install them, make do and pray for patches and updates. I am hoping they have enough Forsight to give this hardware a driver that will do it justice though. I can see the model of what they want to do with the driver the "task" idea, as you choose what you want to do with the card at the time and it configures itself for that task. ISn't that how they explain it?..its a great idea, if properly implemented. I guess we will see..

caqde · Jun 29, 2005, 08:03 PM

Quote:

1) use the "unified driver" release, that means, drivers for sblive/audigy/XFi in the same package and with common files ...

-this would be a wrong idea, 100% there will be tones of driver issues for XFi, and a totally resource hoq problem
-they changed the architecture of the DSP from 10kX so the software architecture will be totally different, so testing will be awfull
-I hope they will not go with this idea, I mean 10kX and XFi are not like Radeon series or NForcex series, so it would be stupid to support the "unified drivers" idea

Maybe.. maybe not.. Depends on how similar the interaction between the OS and the hardware is. If it takes commands in the same manner then yes Unified if it doesn't then no. Because at most with the same commands their might only be more to give it. And that would make this easier on Creative's programmers and would also be helpful to those who still have 10kx based cards.

classic_leon · Jun 29, 2005, 09:34 PM

I think the drivers of XFI will be disappointment to you guys again to provide you "limited" drivers functions that waited to be modded or re-programmed.
There are two models of X-FI sound cards:
-SB0460, economy model.
-SB0550, top model.
The first set of X-FI sound cards launched with EAX4 only and non-PCIe. And SB0550 will be released with its exteral drive that is like a China imported EVD...pretty huge!
BTW, 0550 has RAM.
I hope you guys can program the drivers to let that big exteral drive work at this time.

ROBSCIX · Jun 30, 2005, 02:43 AM

Any news on the prices yet leon?...

thomasabarnes · Jun 30, 2005, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classic_leon

I think the drivers of XFI will be disappointment to you guys again to provide you "limited" drivers functions that waited to be modded or re-programmed.
There are two models of X-FI sound cards:
-SB0460, economy model.
-SB0550, top model.
The first set of X-FI sound cards launched with EAX4 only and non-PCIe. And SB0550 will be released with its exteral drive that is like a China imported EVD...pretty huge!
BTW, 0550 has RAM.
I hope you guys can program the drivers to let that big exteral drive work at this time.

Classic Leon:

Can you post any links to products released having the X-FI chip?

classic_leon · Jun 30, 2005, 12:04 PM

The price is about 5000 Chinese RMB, more than 600 US Dol.
So far, there is not any link to products released having the X-FI chip.
about the chips:
X-FI contians EMU20KX that is named CAO107PAG
You will see the new design of DSP
the BIOS of SB0550, diesgned with encapsulation, is easy to be taken out.

caqde · Jun 30, 2005, 06:18 PM

I was alright paying $200 for my soundcard but $600!!! No way am I spending $600 for a soundcard especially if it is not PCIe. I am keeping this card until I upgrade to PCIe in which I hope that the X-FI chip cards are down in price by then. Should be a while to so maybe the drivers won't be a complete dissapointment by then

classic_leon · Jun 30, 2005, 07:17 PM

The first set of X-Fi uses PCI only not PCIe unless Creative changes its plan and schedule. The sound card that costs $600 is SB0550 and not SB0460 which must be cheaper than the initial one. And, even if you costs 600 USD to get a SB0550, you won't get EAX5 running soon after you buy it. Because it only has EAX4 unless Creative changes its plan and schedule.
The title of this thread is X-Fi and kX. so the drivers have bigger flexible room to be programmed. You guys could program drivers for more functions with X-Fi, like giving the instructions to EMU10KX decoding DTS ES Discrete.
I think if a new codec which is programmed better, you will do fantastic things on this card...not only sound...insead of CPU?...what ever, new EMU20KX and DSP requires new codec that needed to be developed.

Max M. · Jun 30, 2005, 08:15 PM

[color=gray]Ah, all that buzzwords sound nice... but, guys, tell me please: do you really believe Eugene (or anyone else) is planning to write an alternative driver for that new Y-Hi (or whatever they call it) stuff? Are there any volunteers to develop (for example) an assembler/compiler for that new DSP without any documentation?[/color]

classic_leon · Jun 30, 2005, 08:25 PM

I think there are and there will be...
But they haven't released those files yet. It's because of what Creative thinks and what the volunteers think and the relationship of them.
See whether I say right or not when X-Fi launched for my buzzwords.

Max M. · Jun 30, 2005, 08:45 PM

[color=grey]i'm sorry i was not unambiguous. sure, i did not mean your words. i mean "all that buzzwords about x-fi"... anyway, don't treat me serious - i'm just curious and i don't mean to offense anyone... just trying to imagine what you imagine about what they imagine about what he imagines about what we imagine

[/color]

Jun 22, 2005, 11:57 AM	#1
JGSF HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 452 Rep Power: 0	Creative X-fi and KX I just wish that one day it could be possible to use Kx with X-fi... I'm so used to kx by now that I can't imagine the limits with a totally configurable DSP and the X-fi chip under the hood... Just thinking loud... forgive me. Last edited by JGSF; Jun 28, 2005 at 02:07 PM.

Jun 23, 2005, 02:42 PM	#3
Samir kX Lover Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 520 Rep Power: 0	I wish someone clone Eugene... __________________ MU3NKA 3A HAPO6!

Jun 28, 2005, 10:17 PM	#8
thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,373 Rep Power: 58 System Specs	He was just asking man. ROBSCIX the X-FI is a new chip. I'm waiting to see some products that use it. Anybody know if any are out yet? __________________ May a song always touch you in a positive way. Sonar 8.5.3 PE, Windows 7 Pro 64Bit, MOTU UltraLite MK3, 150 GB HDD, 250 GB HDD, 1 TB HDD 7200 rpm, My Music Production: Top 40, Contemporary Christian, Pop/Rock, Decent Rap, Inspirationals, and Children Songs

Jun 28, 2005, 10:40 PM	#9
ROBSCIX DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,732 Rep Power: 0	YES, I know the X-Fi is new chip but in theory isnt tha't what the chip basically is? Or maybe I was misunderstanding the info...The architecture is new but it is a innovative approach using proven technologies arraged to produce a new DSP..Then again I might be way off the mark.. Last edited by ROBSCIX; Jun 28, 2005 at 10:47 PM.

Jun 29, 2005, 12:12 AM	#12
Daniel Drummond DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Brazil Posts: 1,137 Rep Power: 0	If whis is a wishes thread... I wish kX supported 1212m and other emu DAS... __________________ www.palcomp3.com.br/ed

Jun 22, 2005, 03:12 PM	#2
Tiger M kX user Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 851 Rep Power: 0	I wish that too.

Jun 28, 2005, 01:49 PM	#4
adi111p Sound Quality Freak Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 51 Rep Power: 0	I wish "someone" would "donate" a large sum of money to Eugene to make this happening

Jun 28, 2005, 02:08 PM	Thread Starter #5
JGSF HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 452 Rep Power: 0	I can't donate a large sum, since I still don't have a job, but I could donate some for sure...

Jun 28, 2005, 08:58 PM	#6
ROBSCIX DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,732 Rep Power: 0	This chip is based on the 10K series though isn't it?...now the original pentium chips were just a bunch of 486 CHips connected together correct?..now this XIFI chip is a bunch of 10KX chips connected together 4 of them isn't it?

Jun 28, 2005, 09:40 PM	Thread Starter #7
JGSF HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 452 Rep Power: 0	Man, that's really a colossal lie (all that you said)... Where did you read that?

Jun 29, 2005, 12:43 AM	#14
ROBSCIX DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,732 Rep Power: 0	Nobody has seen what the drivers for the new card yet. I hope they take a modular approach. Given the way the are hyping the card up, I hope they put in the work on the drivers...then again we know what creative is like with their drivers that is why most of us are here. As far As The other info was going I was guessing that based on the info...of the quartet DSP..this new architecture has 4 sub processors. Usually companies work with technology they already own and understand when designing new products. I figured was take a 10KX series chip and multiplex it.. Sort of how the orignial 10KX processors ended up in gamer cards they were taken from E-MU..etc..etc. We haven't seen any new advances for how long? the 10KX series has been around for quite a long time. I wasn't saying I was right..Or that I read it anywhere..Just seems plausible...But I also said I could be way off..people should read the whole post instead of jumping on it without understanding what the person was even talking about.... anyway new card..new drivers..new issues.. Last edited by ROBSCIX; Jun 29, 2005 at 01:01 AM.

Jun 29, 2005, 01:23 AM	#16
ROBSCIX DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,732 Rep Power: 0	Yeah, it is nice though an actual hardware change from the same 'ol same 'ol Maybe after the 100's of complaints they get and the screaming users on the tech support lines hopefully they will take a better approach to their drivers. I purchased a SB 24 bit awhile ago for a test run and a review for a friend. The drivers seemed like they were far from being release. Went to the site and of course not updates. I think sometimes they are in such a rush to get the new card to market they forget to put the work and the polish into the drivers. I think I am gonna test drive one when they come out.. I'll have to...But you said it all th only thing wrong with Creative is their software, it leaves alot to be desired...especially when using it in any serious fashion trying to make some music..

Jun 29, 2005, 01:43 AM	Thread Starter #17
JGSF HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 452 Rep Power: 0	There was no offense I was just emphasising that whoever told ROBSCIX that pentium 1's were nothing more than a bunch of 486's or X-fi a bunch of emu10kx chips was wrong. Sorry if it sounded agressive, I didn't say in that mood.

Jun 29, 2005, 01:53 AM	#18
ROBSCIX DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,732 Rep Power: 0	ABout the pentiums I forget about that one..could be remembering it wrong..lol probably am....I think everyone just hopes we don't get another set of bum drivers with this new card...oh well, have to wait and see I imagine there will be a FLOOD of reviews to hit the net...

Jun 29, 2005, 05:14 PM	#19
adi111p Sound Quality Freak Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 51 Rep Power: 0	About the drivers, there are 2 ways of creating them (i mean from creative's point of view): 1) use the "unified driver" release, that means, drivers for sblive/audigy/XFi in the same package and with common files ... -this would be a wrong idea, 100% there will be tones of driver issues for XFi, and a totally resource hoq problem -they changed the architecture of the DSP from 10kX so the software architecture will be totally different, so testing will be awfull -I hope they will not go with this idea, I mean 10kX and XFi are not like Radeon series or NForcex series, so it would be stupid to support the "unified drivers" idea 2) use a new driver, apart from sblive/audigy series - this would be the right choice if they want to help us, and save us from driver headakes! - a good idea is to make unified drivers but for the xfi series ... this is my opinion ....

Jun 29, 2005, 07:05 PM	#20
ROBSCIX DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,732 Rep Power: 0	You are 100% correct, I have yet to see a New Creative Product thats released with a set of drivers that function exactly to specification. They never do. You buy the cards (before KX) install them, make do and pray for patches and updates. I am hoping they have enough Forsight to give this hardware a driver that will do it justice though. I can see the model of what they want to do with the driver the "task" idea, as you choose what you want to do with the card at the time and it configures itself for that task. ISn't that how they explain it?..its a great idea, if properly implemented. I guess we will see..

Jun 29, 2005, 09:34 PM	#22
classic_leon HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Wu Han, Hu Bei, P.R.China Posts: 1,238 Rep Power: 0	I think the drivers of XFI will be disappointment to you guys again to provide you "limited" drivers functions that waited to be modded or re-programmed. There are two models of X-FI sound cards: -SB0460, economy model. -SB0550, top model. The first set of X-FI sound cards launched with EAX4 only and non-PCIe. And SB0550 will be released with its exteral drive that is like a China imported EVD...pretty huge! BTW, 0550 has RAM. I hope you guys can program the drivers to let that big exteral drive work at this time. __________________ Fashion keeps us alive. YouP-PAX Please visit http://www.A-PAX.co.uk to discuss the computer mods. The latest YouP PAX modded drivers are provided on the site.

Jun 30, 2005, 02:43 AM	#23
ROBSCIX DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,732 Rep Power: 0	Any news on the prices yet leon?...

Jun 30, 2005, 12:04 PM	#25
classic_leon HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Wu Han, Hu Bei, P.R.China Posts: 1,238 Rep Power: 0	The price is about 5000 Chinese RMB, more than 600 US Dol. So far, there is not any link to products released having the X-FI chip. about the chips: X-FI contians EMU20KX that is named CAO107PAG You will see the new design of DSP the BIOS of SB0550, diesgned with encapsulation, is easy to be taken out. __________________ Fashion keeps us alive. YouP-PAX Please visit http://www.A-PAX.co.uk to discuss the computer mods. The latest YouP PAX modded drivers are provided on the site. Last edited by classic_leon; Jun 30, 2005 at 12:16 PM.

Jun 30, 2005, 06:18 PM	#26
caqde HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: US, IL Posts: 502 Rep Power: 64 System Specs	I was alright paying $200 for my soundcard but $600!!! No way am I spending $600 for a soundcard especially if it is not PCIe. I am keeping this card until I upgrade to PCIe in which I hope that the X-FI chip cards are down in price by then. Should be a while to so maybe the drivers won't be a complete dissapointment by then __________________ AMD Phenom II X4 925 AM3/ Giga-byte MA790XT-UD4P XFX HD5770 1GB / 2x2GB of GSKILL DDR3 10666 8-8-8-23 Samsung SH-S182D DVD-RW drive / Sony Optiarc BD-5300S BD-RW drive Western Digital WD1501FASS(Primary)/Western Digital 15EADS(Secondary)/Western Digital 7500AACS(Secondary)/Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320gb(Secondary)/Western Digital 3200KS 16MB 7200rpm SATAII HD(Secondary) Antec TP-550 / CoolerMaster CMStacker Sound Blaster X-FI Titanium Fatal1ty Professional / Creative Inspire 6600 6.1 speakers Samsugn T200HD 20" LCD Monitor / Logitech Internet 350 Black Keyboard Logitech MX510 Mouse

Jun 30, 2005, 07:17 PM	#27
classic_leon HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Wu Han, Hu Bei, P.R.China Posts: 1,238 Rep Power: 0	The first set of X-Fi uses PCI only not PCIe unless Creative changes its plan and schedule. The sound card that costs $600 is SB0550 and not SB0460 which must be cheaper than the initial one. And, even if you costs 600 USD to get a SB0550, you won't get EAX5 running soon after you buy it. Because it only has EAX4 unless Creative changes its plan and schedule. The title of this thread is X-Fi and kX. so the drivers have bigger flexible room to be programmed. You guys could program drivers for more functions with X-Fi, like giving the instructions to EMU10KX decoding DTS ES Discrete. I think if a new codec which is programmed better, you will do fantastic things on this card...not only sound...insead of CPU?...what ever, new EMU20KX and DSP requires new codec that needed to be developed. __________________ Fashion keeps us alive. YouP-PAX Please visit http://www.A-PAX.co.uk to discuss the computer mods. The latest YouP PAX modded drivers are provided on the site.

Jun 30, 2005, 08:15 PM	#28
Max M. h/h member-shmember Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Evil Empire Posts: 2,606 Rep Power: 66	[color=gray]Ah, all that buzzwords sound nice... but, guys, tell me please: do you really believe Eugene (or anyone else) is planning to write an alternative driver for that new Y-Hi (or whatever they call it) stuff? Are there any volunteers to develop (for example) an assembler/compiler for that new DSP without any documentation?[/color] Last edited by Max M.; Jun 30, 2005 at 08:51 PM.

Jun 30, 2005, 08:25 PM	#29
classic_leon HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Wu Han, Hu Bei, P.R.China Posts: 1,238 Rep Power: 0	I think there are and there will be... But they haven't released those files yet. It's because of what Creative thinks and what the volunteers think and the relationship of them. See whether I say right or not when X-Fi launched for my buzzwords. __________________ Fashion keeps us alive. YouP-PAX Please visit http://www.A-PAX.co.uk to discuss the computer mods. The latest YouP PAX modded drivers are provided on the site.

Jun 30, 2005, 08:45 PM	#30
Max M. h/h member-shmember Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Evil Empire Posts: 2,606 Rep Power: 66	[color=grey]i'm sorry i was not unambiguous. sure, i did not mean your words. i mean "all that buzzwords about x-fi"... anyway, don't treat me serious - i'm just curious and i don't mean to offense anyone... just trying to imagine what you imagine about what they imagine about what he imagines about what we imagine [/color] Last edited by Max M.; Jun 30, 2005 at 08:54 PM.