trance1meister

1. my Microsoft Sidewinder Gamepad has never worked properly since I got Windows XP/SBLive 5.1 platinum. i've browsed the web, and no-one with WinXP and SBLive! seems to be able to get it to work on the gameport.

I have found that the problem seems to be with the SBLive! itself. if you disable it in the device manager, the gamepad works fine. if you enable it again, it usually works still....but only until you reboot... i'm pissed off, because I love this gamepad (and many other do to)
anyone have any ideas....or could the kX project guys looks into it? (plllleeaaase!)


2. I've read many people saying that the SBLive! 5.1 can't
DECODE an AC-3 stream (it only does a "pass-thru") well, I know this is wrong, since I wouldn't hear 5.1 sound on my 5.1 analog speakers, if it wasn't being decoded. so, I assume the card itself CAN decode an AC-3 stream, but only from the output of a DVD?

i use PowerDVD XP, and If i select the speaker output as "6 speaker output" I assume PowerDVD decodes the AC3 and passes it to the SBLive! to output. but if I select "SPDIF" it sends the encoded AC3 through the SPDIF cable to the SBLive! which then decodes it?

here is my question: would it be possible, or IS it possible, to be able to decode an incoming AC3 stream through the optical in on the livedrive? surely it could be possible?

trance1meister

well....i've had some luck with question 1...
I decided to try re-installing the kX drivers. (i installed them over the creative ones first time) ...I completely uninstalled everything to do with creative manually this time though, deleted every file, and every regiestry entry relating to it. I then installed the kX drivers fresh. my gamepad was alive! fantastic! well..... it's almost ok. except it cuts out for about 20seconds every now and again during a game... so it's almost fixed....whatever the kX gameport device changes, it's obviously a step in the right direction....

Eugene Gavrilov

>> here is my question: would it be possible, or IS it possible, to
>> be able to decode an incoming AC3 stream through the optical
>> in on the livedrive? surely it could be possible?

well, decoding an incoming AC-3 stream is possible only on Audigy boards, but is not currently supported by kX drivers
[I hope it will be supported in the future]

the present kX drivers support AC-3 decoding in software [the Creative drivers do it in software, too], but it requires your player to be set to 'spdif' mode.

also, you can choose to 'bypass' the ac-3 encoded audio [but you will still need to switch the player to 'spdif' mode]

ac-3 decoding done by the player itself requires the DirectSound interface to operate in 'mutlichannel mode', which is not currently fully supported by kX, that's why it results in noisy output.

/Eugene

trance1meister

thanks for the reply, but i'm not sure that I understand fully:

you say "decoding an incoming AC-3 stream is possible only on Audigy boards"

do you mean the audigy can decode AC3 from the optical in, but the SBLive5.1 platinum can't?

and just to clarify:

the player itself is decoding the AC3 stream when set to "multichannel" mode

and when set to SPDIF, the player passes the AC3 stream still encoded to the soundcard to decode?

i still can't see why AC3 can't be passed from the optical in, to the SBLive5.1 to be decoded, like can be done from the SPDIF of the internal DVD player

(sorry, but i'm still trying to get my head around all this AC3 stuff!

Max M.

>i still can't see why AC3 can't be passed from the optical in, to the SBLive5.1 to be decoded, like can be done from the SPDIF of the internal DVD player

These are very different cases...
"SPDIF" mode of software DVD player is not a phisical streaming - it is just software sending of ac3 to driver as raw data (actually it has nothing to do with "SPDIF"). Digital streams from phisical inputs are always interpolated on Live! and since interpolation works ok only for standard PCM audio stream, but contents of AC3 stream (which is not PCM) is complitely destroyed, decoding of ac3 recieved from external inputs (e.g. optical-in etc.) is just impossible.
Audigy has a special modes when "interpolators of spdif inputs" can be bypassed.

__________________

trance1meister

ok, thanks very much for the info

CDLuck

Max,

you wrote:

"Audigy has a special modes when "interpolators of spdif inputs" can be bypassed."


How exactly does one access those modes? I have a Creative Dxr3 card with an SPDIF output, and I just bought an expansion card for my audigy that gives me optical input and output and coaxial input and output. I attached the coax output from the Dxr3 to the coax input on the expansion card, and then sent the optical output to my speakers (which have a built in DTS\Dolby Digital decoder). All my regular sound comes out (mp3's, system sounds, game sounds), so I know the little expansion card is working, but when I go to play a movie, I don't hear a thing (my decoder will light up and tell me if it is receiving a DTS stream or a Dolby Digital stream, and neither light up). Any ideas on what I could do?

Sincerely,
Chris

Max M.

CDLuck

Depending on the way dxr3 works (well, i think you should carefully check documentation of dxr3 and software you use with it) there're two methods...

1. If you are sure then ac3 stream is available on the spdif output of dxr3 - then you should enable kx's "spdif bypass" option. This forces spdif signal to be passed from spdif in to spdif out unmodified (so that ac3 won't be destoyed) and external decoder should be able to accept it.

2. Software you use can get data from dxr3 in "software way" (e.g. via IDE cable) and send it (with player's "spdif" option enabled) to driver as a plain wave data. In that situation you should use kx's "ac3 passthrough mode". So that (again) wave data recieved by driver will be passed to spdif out as is without any modification...

---
The first variant will work on both Live and Audigy.
The second one should work on Audigy only (but never tested though)

__________________

CDLuck

Max,
---------------
1. If you are sure then ac3 stream is available on the spdif output of dxr3 - then you should enable kx's "spdif bypass" option. This forces spdif signal to be passed from spdif in to spdif out unmodified (so that ac3 won't be destoyed) and external decoder should be able to accept it.
----------------

I tried this, and it didn't work....on a side note, when I go to change the volume level of the "coax in" and the recording level of "coax in", it always reverts back to "0" (no volume). Does this represent a bigger problem?


------------------------
2. Software you use can get data from dxr3 in "software way" (e.g. via IDE cable) and send it (with player's "spdif" option enabled) to driver as a plain wave data. In that situation you should use kx's "ac3 passthrough mode". So that (again) wave data recieved by driver will be passed to spdif out as is without any modification...
---------------------

How do I go about using the ac3 passthrough mode? The ac3passthrough plugin has two inputs and two outputs...what do I attach to these? Thanks for the help

-Chris

Max M.

spdif bypass
>I tried this, and it didn't work....

too bad, because it is the best and most correct method to do this... (hmm, maybe dxr3's spdif out is inactive, or kx does not bypass "coaxial in" to "optical" out... hmm, not sure. i'll have a look)

> it always reverts back to "0" (no volume)
this is hmm... "feature" - see http://www.hardwareheaven.com/showthre...threadid=12690 thread about "mute" thing... also when "spdif bypass" is on, signal is affected by no setting/faders/routings at all... so it's never mind...

>The ac3passthrough plugin has two inputs and two outputs...

you should connect prolog pins representing coaxial input (left/right) to "acpassthro..." inputs, and "ac333passthrough" outputs to epilog pins representing optical out ("generic spdif")... also be sure that digital in/out are unmuted and set to maximum on "ins'n'outs" page...
well, i dunno, if it would work....

__________________

CDLuck

I don't see "generic spdif" on the epilog. The only two ports on the epilog that send any sound down my cable is Digital Front Left and Digital Front Right...and if I attach the ac3passthrough to it, then I wouldn't be able to hear my system sound and mp3's. Am I looking at this all wrong?

-Chris

CDLuck

I tried connecting directly from the dxr3 to the speakers and it works fine, so I know the spdif is active...I also tried using a coax out from the audigy add on card, and it still didn't work, though other sounds (mp3, etc) came out on both coax and optical. I don't think I could hate creative more at this point

summoner

I am having the same situation as you... I am trying to output AC3 from DivX and DVD movies, and using the passtrough to my Reciever... No go for any of the passthrough modes... I think someone fogot to enable a flag in the spdi/f passthrough option

Max M.

> I think someone fogot to enable a flag in the spdi/f passthrough option - what do you mean with this?

__________________

CDLuck

How is the "SPDIF Bypass" different from adding an "ac3passthrough" plugin? Neither seem to be working for me. I just bought this add on card, and I tested the optical in and out and the coax out (I'm positive those work) I don't have any other digital coax source other than my Dxr3 card, but I know sound is coming from it when I plug it directly into my speakers. It just seems like the drivers aren't picking up sounds from it (I've tried sending both AC3 and PCM from the DVD Player). Is there anyway to test if a digital stream is coming through? Would it be possible to hear the un-decoded stream, just to make sure something was coming through in the first place?

-Chris

Fragmented_God

I just installed the KX drivers cause I was tired of creative drivers and one of my friends has been telling me to use these for a while now. I'm running Windows XP with a Sound Blaster Audigy Player. I run everything out from the card through a coax cable to a digital in on my amp. With the creative drivers I am able to get mp3 and system sounds, and when I use PowerDVD XP 4.0 with SPDIF out selected I have Dolby Digital/DTS autodetection on my amp. Works perfectly.

I really like the KX drivers, but with version 3528 or 3530 I am unable to get sound consistently from PowerDVD. With 3530 installed, I tried playing with the bypass options and different dvds. Using Family Guy Season 1, which has one audio track, I was unable to get sound consistently. I CAN get sound, but it seemed to be fairly random in how it happened. I load up the dvd, I have sound for one section of the introduction, then i select and episode. No sound. So I scroll back in the episode, suddenly I have sound. It seems that it is having problems initializing it all the time, I'm not sure what's going on. I tried changing the AC3 Passthrough modes (I'm very new to this, was just testing basic setting changes) and I could not get any sound. I would instead have a weird clipping noise repeatedly playing when I selected the AC3 Passthrough modes sometimes, and other times I would have nothing. I would select SPDIF 1, have the noise, select SPDIF 2, have nothing, select Off, have the noise (which to me doesn't make much sense).

I then tried the same thing with a Tool DVD that I have. I noticed that when I played with the options that I would only get system sounds if I had the SPDIF Bypass turned off. Also, with version 3530 I was able to get sound when I selected the second audio track on the dvd, but not the first. The first track is a 6 track DD track, and the second one is 2 channel. But I could not get this sound consistently either. I would select the audio track and then select different AC3 Passthrough modes and sometimes on off/SPDIF 1 I would have sound, but never on the others and never using the SPDIF Bypass mode. With version 3528 I was unable to get any sound aside from that weird clipping (sounds almost like static with a repeated deep click).

I really don't know what's going on, I have no idea how to fix it, but I REALLY want this to work. I use my computer for two things really: music and movies. If I can't watch movies I won't be continuing to use these drivers (which is disappointing). I'll be gone for the weekend but if there's anything I can help with/test let me know and I'll do whatever I can.

Thanks.

__________________
He who is confused and knows he is confused is wise.
Learn from him.

summoner

As the guy above me wrote, I have found no way to passthrough the ac3 stream t an external decoder... activating the passthrough option in the mixer changes nothing...

Fragmented_God

A friend of mine also tried out the problem and managed to get it working with WinDVD by changing the Surrounder settings in KX DSP by double clicking on it and then selecting Tweak. He used 5.1 and the surround mode (I believe) set to Copy. Once in WinDVD, he began playing a video and then specified that the audio should be using the Digital Out. However, when I tried this I was unable at any time to obtain a 6 channel signal. I was also unable to get a 2 channel signal at this point if I changed the Surrounder settings.

Not sure if this helps at all, maybe it's just my system, but I have no problems of this nature when using the Creative drivers.

__________________
He who is confused and knows he is confused is wise.
Learn from him.

CDLuck

As far as I know, unless you are decoding the AC3 stream on the computer (instead of an external decoder), then nothing you do in the kx settings will affect the sound. Supposedly selecting SPDIF bypass sends the signal unaltered out to your decoder, but I haven't gotten that to work.

Mister_D

Sorry guys, I've been reading now all your articles here concerning AC3-passthru, but I still can't get it work. The problem is: Where is that "ac3-passthru"-Checkbos you're always talking about? All I can find is a "digital output"-checkbox which doesn't really help...

All I want to do is prevent the software (= kX-driver) from decoding the signal coming from my DVDs so my external decoder (wired via S/PDIF) is able to recognize it as an DD-signal. BTW I'm using the newest version of the kX-driver (3531) and an old SB Live! Platinum (WITHOUT 5.1!) and it works fine with the original Creative-drivers.

So could anyone please tell me where this checkbox is hidden or what I have to do to get it work? TIA,

Mister_D

CDLuck

You have to open up the kX DSP, then right click somewhere away from existing modules and select:

Add Effect\Plugin -> Passthru -> AC3passthrough

Then connect the incoming AC3 signal from wherever it's coming from (prolog for example) and then connect the outputs to wherever you want on the epilog. At least that's how I believe you hook them up, I'm not 100% positive.

-Chris

Mister_D

Thanks for your help, Chris. Now I understand the whole thing much better. I installed the plug-in and found out that its output has to be routed to the "general S/PDIF-output". The problem is: Where does the encoded AC3-Stream come from? It has to be one of the FX-buses because the source is "inside" the system. Ok, so I open the kX-router and find: Wave - AC3 passthru. All of the four sends are routed to port 61-63. Where are these ports located, what do I need them for and how can I reset a value of e.g. 63 after changing to something else? Anyway I set the first two sends to 10 and 11 as they haven't been in use yet. But when I connect these two ports to the ac3-passthru-plugin and the plug-in to the output nothing happens, my external DD-decoder remains quiete and doesn't recognize an DD-stream.

Apart from this I would be interested in what this plugin does in fact. And what's this "b2b"-plugin for? Is there anywhere an explanation of the plug-ins?

Mister_D