igor_levicki

Hello everyone,
I have seen some people asking about Windows XP Professional x64 Edition support. The answer was negative. I had a chat with Eugene about it and he told me that he doesn't have necessary equipment and software for development. That means x86-64 compatible computer and Windows XP Professional x64 Edition. Therefore I came up with the idea to make the poll to see how many people would actually help by donating money for the equipment and the OS.

I was thinking about the following equipment:

- ASUS P5LD2-VM
- Intel Pentium D 820
- 2x512MB DDR2 RAM, not too important which one
- Windows XP Professional x64 Edition

Before anyone else asks "why Intel, why not AMD", here is my reasoning that led me to suggest this configuration:

- Intel platform already has all drivers for Windows XP Professional x64 Edition
- Eugene doesn't play games, integrated graphics will work fine for the development.
- PCI-express x16 slot exists so he can always upgrade if needed but initial cost is reduced because there is no need for graphics card.
- Pentium D 820 is the cheapest dual-core CPU -- even the cheapest AMD dual-core would significantly add to the cost. I agree that the performance would be better but the added expense is not justified for the development
- Dual-core CPU comes handy for testing threading and synchronization issues in drivers

That's it -- you just have to vote. I would also ask dj_stick to make this thread sticky.

__________________
Regards,
Igor Levicki
--
Creative Audigy 2 ZS Retail (SB0350) kX 3538h

JohnMcClane

It would be a good idea, but I doubt Eugene has the time to add x64 support. Writing drivers for x64 cannot be done by just recompiling, it takes up a lot of time.

igor_levicki

Actually if I understood him correctly ~95% of the code is reusable/portable. The only thing that must be taken care of is DMA. So it may not take that much time.

I believe that it would be possible for Eugene to find some time to do it, but one thing I am sure -- without equipment it won't be possible at all.

I have seen quite a few posts lately requesting and inquiring about x64. Let's just see if people are ready to stretch a bit to get what they want.

__________________
Regards,
Igor Levicki
--
Creative Audigy 2 ZS Retail (SB0350) kX 3538h

Tril

I would not. I currently don't have a 64 bits cpu. If I upgrade to a 64 bits cpu, I'll change the whole computer and I'll also upgrade the soundcard to an even better soundcard (X-fi or something else). That means that I won't need the drivers for a card using the emu10kX once I change to 64 bits.

ReWired

I think Microsoft developed XP64 in closer collaboration with AMD, not with Intel...
Anyway the point of Tril is quite interesting.
But for sure there are two type of users:
First are runnig quite okd and outdated PCs. They collect money and make upgrade to newer systems in one step - MB, CPU, RAM, HDDs, DVDs, monitors, audio and video...etc. For sure such people will migrate to better audio cards.
Second are upgrading step-by-step. Those people may need kX support for their cards.

As a matter of fact - kX makes non-professional card to act like expensive ones. With some hardware limitations, of course. And there will be always need of such "expansions"

I any ways - support for XP64 will be needed soon, because most of kX users are "bedroom musicians" probably and what if they need XP64 for their main jobs? Then they will stop making music...or be forced to buy more expensive cards.....

igor_levicki

It did, I have talked with one of Microsoft software engineers and he confirmed something I suspected for a long time. He said that AMD64 ABI (application binary interface for XP64) was planned with AMD 5 years ago. Knowing that you can conclude that Microsoft and AMD killed DEC Alpha on purpose. As you probably know Windows NT SP6 was the latest with support for Alpha CPUs. It was removed in Windows 2000 Beta 3. For me, it is just too much of a coincidence.

Anyway, that has nothing to do with the choice of hardware. Intel's EM64T is binary compatible with AMD's AMD64. My choice was based simply on pricing.

Regarding upgrade paths and need for x64 drivers, there is already x64 version of Cakewalk Sonar available with improved performance over 32-bit version. Other software will soon follow. I believe that many of us are not ready to dump their Audigy 2 and Audigy 2 ZS sound cards.

Regarding X-fi, I have read about it. It is not so great as it seems at the first glance.

First, DSP still works at fixed 48KHz internally and it does 96KHz by processing two halves of the signal instead of full 96KHz bandwidth -- main reason for this aproach is price and the complexity of IC design. Don't forget that the need for processing power quadruples when you double the sampling frequency.

For some reading on the X-Fi check this page.

__________________
Regards,
Igor Levicki
--
Creative Audigy 2 ZS Retail (SB0350) kX 3538h

mensan

I had donated a small amount once but for this kind of update and given Eugene will have to make a major upgrade i would give a bit more. The thing is 15 persons cannot donate 50e each, so ppl just realise your future machine will be 64bit and start supporting from now what should be out in a year or so.

rune60625

The Intels have been having some problems, I would go with the AMD chip. I certainly would donate for a x64 driver that works, as the Creative labs one is worthless, and I had to pull the card out for now.

Rune

mensan

The results from the 32bit effort are so good it might be a good idea to donate for the x64 even before a release Donations aid the development, they are not a means of recompensation. Just my 2 cents

ojlehtin

Even though I've been using kX for quite a long time I haven't donated anything so far (shame on me). Ofcourse kX is supposed to be free and so on but a little encouragement never hurts.

Now about this x64 support. It is clear, that after a while most of our computers will be x64, and at the current state kX won't work on them. That's really sad because working with kX is really effective and even inspiring. The feeling of taking control of the card over this big bad corporation (a small exageration perhaps, sorry) is a good one. Anyway, at the current state, we'll lose the whole thing.

This appears to be an important moment to flip in a coin and I guess none us would really go bancrupt if we gave say 10e or even more. That's not much compared to buing some professional equipment once kX is rendered useless and atleast I don't have any real need for giving up my audigy2.

Also, if we could help out at this point we'd perhaps give Eugene some steam for pushing it on. As far as I know he's been loosing his motivation for this project. Ofcourse it's totally his own business if he keeps on doing it or not, but if he'd be shown there is some _real_ interest for his efforts he'd choose to go on for a while. Plus he'd get some spiffy new hardware which allways gives everyone joy and energy.

Oswald


p.s. I don't know if it's possible to label the donations via PayPal for example so that Eugene would see what for the money was given. If it is, I guess people would feel more comfortable donating.

p.p.s. At this point when we don't know if anyone else is donating we fear perhaps no one else is and our money will be given in vain. Don't sweat it. Everyone can live with a little insecurity.

__________________
Oswald

ojlehtin

Just donated 25 USD. Now I feel like a better person You should try it too.

__________________
Oswald

RvC-Kenny

eugene plz give a short statement about that. i dont wanna try vista without my audigy 2 @kX! or get at least the kxmixer to work in vista 32bit. if that situation about the 64bit isnt hopeless i will donate some money again.
but i would go for amd X2 and a asrock dualsata board. you can keep your old agp graphicscard and ram. the system is cheap and stable.

vmm

Or someone else (I know Eugene must be extremely busy), is it possible to install kX Drivers on an AMD64 system on Windows XP too? Or doesn't it work only on a XP64 Windows installation?

RvC-Kenny

winxp(32) on an athlon64 is no problem, its still 32bit but the hardware is able to run 64bit with winxp64

vmm

That's what I hoped to hear! I can safely whipe my xp64 now Thanks Kenny

SPYRO

I will donate for sure.

Micha80

Donate is done!

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SB Audigy 1 (SB0090)

Battlesnake

I own an x64 system (ASUS M3A78-EMH HDMI & AMD X2 5200+), with XP Pro x64 and a SB Live! 5.1 Digital (EMU10k1).

I'd be happy to create a beta x64 version, until Eugene has raised enough money to get his x64 box. I also have a MIDI controller (Evolution MK-449C), so can test the MIDI side of things.

I can be contacted at
js07mkc [at] leeds [dot] ac [dot] uk

RIV@NVX

Eugene is _not_ coding any x64 drivers so far, and they aren't even planned, afaik.

__________________
-- Vedran

Eugene Gavrilov

the answer for all this 'x64' question is quite simple: as soon as I use x64 as my -primary- OS, I will port kX to it. If I just start it for 5-10 min per month, I doubt I will work on the driver - it is a resource-consuming work, not just a 'recompile'.

I'm considering re-writing kX Mixer for OSX and Windows, and make it cross-platform.
This may speed-up x64 migration...
But, as always, no promises and release dates.

E.

djsubject

that's what he told me about loading firmware in OSX about a month before it was added



happy holidays E.

PS, listening to web radio using my 1820 on OSX as i type!

Thank You!!

Subz

RPGWiZaRD

Upgrading to a X-Fi card and using Creative drivers is a downgrade compared to Audigy card + kX drivers. I've listened to friend's sound with X-Fi but I can't say it sound near as good as my old Audigy card with tweaked kX driver settings.

I would gladly donate for 64bit support, seeing how things start demanding more and more RAM that ~3.25GB limit in 32bit is really a PITA. So far 2GB is enough even for my gaming rig but yea not for long I think and Vista/W7 really likes 4GB(+). kX Audio drivers are so useful for my gaming as the 3D positional sound is perfect in any game I fire up. With Creative drivers mostly only EAX supported titles had proper 3D positional sound...

hearthat

Hi folks,

I certainly hope this 64 bit can proceeed.
Donated $20 Canadian today ... Cheap bugger eh? LOL
Anyhow just hopin' we can talk Eugene into it :-)

All these years and I've never said Thank You ....
Well ... Thank You and all who have worked on this thing. I really hope you all keep hacking away at it. This has been an absolute God Send for me. I am a live sound engineer but don't get "too" extravagant with my home setup. I have 2 Satellite Dishes feeding EyeTV on an Imac G5. I have converted 2000 of my CD's etc to FLAC and use "PLAY" on the Mac to play them. For online Golf games Skype runs on the Mac too and I mix in my Wife's mic from her machine via Analog IN and do lots of tricks to Compress/Expand etc so our online gaming chatter sounds freakin' awesome. . the output of the MAC goes optical to my SB Platinum with Live Drive on my PC. The PC supplies Digital audio to the main surround system in the living room which then distributes to 2 other rooms in the house and also feeds whatever I have mixed in KX (specifically for Skype) back to the Mac to be sent out on the Airwaves .... I mean "VOIP waves" I usually DJ for everyone playing with us. Pretty whacky EQ but sounds good at the other end thru Skype.
Sheesh ... amazing .... who'd have thought I could time align my "MAINS" right here at home with a "shitty" consumer sound card !

This KX Driver has been the most awesome aspect of my rig for a long time. Love it to death.
The $20 Canadian I sent via Centrance probably wont go too far but it is a "token" of my appreciation. I'll try to make a habit of donating once in a while :-)

Guess if everyone did it you'd be retired on a tropical island somewhere.

Anyhow .... I could go on forever about this KX monster you've created but I'm sure ur sick of reading by now !

Kami
Vancouver Canada

__________________


If the pen is mightier than the sword, and a picture
is worth a thousand words, how dangerous is a fax?

dumdum

I think that the development of a KX x64 driver will determine if KX will survive or die forever.
I think in 2 years or less there won't be x86 OS.

Regards,

DumDum

fluxcore

Literally the only reason that I haven't switched to a 64bit OS is due to the kxdrivers. Don't take this as a whine or anything, this project should be immensely proud to be thought of as a 'killer app' which determines whether someone upgrades or not

Having said that, I would love to see a x64 driver so that I *can* switch, and would happily donate. It would seem worthwhile waiting for Windows7 though, since most Vista users are likely to switch, and XP x64 is horrible.

Cheers,
--flux