bobcat56458

I would like some information on recording the SPDIF coaxial digital audio from a Sony portable DAT tape recorder, model PCM-M1 to my Windows 98SE computer with an Audigy 1 Platinum EX soundcard, and the kx drivers version 3537. I have heard that it is possible to do bit for bit accurate transferring of the digital audio using the kX drivers. I've just ordered a digital I\O cable for the DAT recorder so I've not been able to test this feature out yet, I do have the kX drivers installed, and working. I have some project studio DAT tapes that I would like to transfer to the computer for archiving, and editing. My questions are concerning how to best go about that process. What software will I need to record that bit for bit digital audio stream? Will it capture it as a digital stream, or as a wave file? Will it go through a digital to analogue conversion before being recorded? Will I be able to output by SPDIF the edited digital audio back to the DAT unit without an analogue to digital conversion. Any answers to these questions would be greatly appreciated. Also any tips on the kX drivers setup to accomplish this would be very helpful.

Maddogg6

Everything I know is right here:
http://kxproject.lugosoft.com/direct.php?language=en

ROBSCIX

So your in the clear man you have a 10K2 board so you can do the direct SPDIF recording. Interesting I was thinking of adding my old DAT back into this studio.

bobcat56458

Maddogg6: I have seen that link but it does not go into much detail on exactly what to do after you have setup the mixer, it also refers to a control that does not exist on the main mixer window called: "After enabling 'Direct SPDIF Recording' no other recording sources are unavailable.". I think that is referring to the "Toggle ‘Digital Output Only’ mode" checkbox? As I have not received the Sony proprietary SPDIF digital coaxial cable yet I’m limited in testing this out by running a RCA pin plug coaxial digital cable from my DVD player into the Audigy’s digital input. Then testing it with a Dolby Digital compressed audio stream. This is not the same as a 16 bit PCM uncompressed audio stream the DAT would output, but I’m able to record the DD2.0 audio in Cubase VST CE, & Audacity. It would be great if I could record a DD5.1 audio stream, but I’ve not been able to do that with the above programs. ROBSCIX: I’m glad I have the right combination of soundcard & DAT deck that hopefully will work with this endeavor. I won’t know if it will work till I receive the digital cable. There are factors of I\O voltages of the DAT deck, and soundcard that must be compatible. You would think there would be more forum members with experience doing this type of thing with the kX drivers as this is one of the reasons for there inception. I guess most of the members are using them for gaming purposes. The musicians here are not probably using R-DAT decks much any more, there recording directly into the computer, and burning CD’s as there masters?

TravelRec.

If you card has an coaxial input terminal, you can connect it via coaxial cable with your DAT coaxial out (over distances up to 2m a simple Cinch cable works). Activate then DirectSPDIF-Recording in kX-Mixer application (master page) with COAXIAL/OPTICAL input. This should work fine. If your card has an optical input device, you can connect you DAT via optical fibre cable, do the same steps like above - this works fine too.
You are welcome here!

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Maddogg6

I just put the link there because as you say, its not clear exactly how it is accomplished. BUT - the HUGE hint 'Not available in ASIO'

I dont have 5.1 content to send to the A2, just stereo from a guitar processor. Ill look into how I can record that. Ive been using it as normal for asio recording in sonar for lower latency and it sounds pretty good that way. But if it is 5.1 encoded - I can see that the direct record would be prefferred if not neccessary.

Ill report my findings asap.

bobcat56458

Just an update, I received the digital coaxial SPDIF I\O cable today. I did some quick tests and both the stream from the DAT to the computer Audigy I Platinum EX soundcard, and the stream from the soundcard to the DAT work. I am able to have the kX mixer sliders all in the off position when recording on the computer and the audio recording program still is able to record the stream. This according to the kX manual shows it is recording a bit for bit accurate audio, and not doing any processing. The only doubt I have is that I’m wondering if it is going through a digital to analogue conversion before it gets to the audio recording program? I’m able to monitor the audio using the kX mixer and it sounds like the same audio on the DAT’s headphone output. I’m wondering if it should sound like a white noise kind of sound if it is not going through a digital to analogue conversion. So are my saved wave file computer copies true bit for bit accurate clones of the material on the DAT tapes, any thoughts?

TravelRec.

The recording path do not pass any processing, since it uses the WMM recording device. You can hear the sound that is coming through the playback device and of course, this is done by D/A conversion. You can proof this, if you feed a different sample rate compared with the selected one in your recording application - the recording will be pitched, ´cause it is not resampled by anything. I used the direct SPDIF recording feature many times for getting the clearest copy available from my old DAT-Tapes.

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bobcat56458

TravelRec.: Thanks for the reply, I ran the test you suggested and it showed the results you stated, the computer captured track played a bit faster, the difference between 44.1 & 48kHz. You seem quite experienced at this having gone through transferring your DAT tapes to your computer before. Would you suggest that all forms of Dithering should be turned off in the computer audio editing program when capturing the digital stream, and that I capture the audio at 16 bits as to not alter the original audio that is 16 bits? On sending the computer audio back to the DAT for re-recording it back to tape. It appears that an analogue to digital conversion is unavoidable as I have to have the kx mixer sliders for "Master Volume", "Wave\PCM", & "Digital Front/SPIFO Output", all activated, and up, to receive an audio signal on the DAT recorder. Am I correct on this assumption? Any other forum members feel free to add your thoughts on these questions also. Any input is greatly appreciated, as I would like to get my DAT tapes transferred correctly the first time, to avoid any additional head wear on the portable DAT recorder, and myself!

TravelRec.

Hi bobcat56458!

Yes, I have some experience with it, since I copied all my tapes in the past, because they were quite old (6-8 years) and had some problems with the age, I got the first drop outs here and there and before they died completely I saved them on DVDs (twice!!!). The tape is not a save place for data over a long time, so I would not recommend that you send the data back on tape after recording/editing on the computer. If I record some stuff outside with the DAT, I always save it as soon as possible on the computer and burn it later. For the dithering: afaik this is only applied during playback or before saving it to disk. Personally I would leave this all away, since 48/16 is the DAT format and I would not alter it to keep it original.
To record the DAT-Signal, you don´t need any conversion, only to hear it over the speakers. Try some testing: activate in master page the digital input of your choice for direct spdif recording. Put all other faders in the mixer page down or mute them. Start your recording application and your tape and record the stream. You will see the recorded data, but you only can´t hear it, since no playback is activated. The recorded data on the disk is the 1:1 copy of your tape, whatever you activate to play it back. To get the data out of the computer with highest quality, put it on a DVD or CD or stream it out via SPDIF output. The SPDIF output stream will be resampled (48 to 48 kHz) due to the passing through the DSP. This is unavoidable, but also not noticeable for human ears.

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bobcat56458

Hi TravelRec, and other forum members:

Your information has been very helpful in setting up for my DAT transfer project. I think I now have the information I’ll need to began the transferring. I have about 30 DAT tapes from 1992 on, that make’s some of them 13 years old. A while back I did a analogue transfer from the line output of the Sony PCM-M1, but I’m looking forward to getting a true digital copy of that material before it starts having dropouts. I always made two masters on different tapes so I hope dropouts won’t bite me, (Pardon me, I’m now going to go into a cheap gin inspired self-indulgent rant ). The music itself was recorded in my project studio that I had at the time. The analogue instruments like guitars, and vocals were early on recorded to a 4 track multitrack cassette recorder, and were later on recorded using a 6 track stand alone hard drive multitrack recorder as the technology evolved. Both setups required having a sync track for synchronization with a computer that had a sequencer for the midi keyboards, guitar synth, drum machine, & sound modules, as well as midi automation of the mix, and effect modules. So all these devices were recorded to the DAT masters directly, along with the analogue instruments, and vocals mixed with those also. I did projects of my own material, and also opened the studio to local talent. The material ranged from rock, electronic music, to county music that the locals performed. I always strove to get the cleanest results that my limited budget would permit. When I sold my project studio I purchased the portable DAT deck with the intention of using it for transferring that material to the computer someday. I’m just now getting around to that process. There may not be any gold records in my archives, but there is a snapshot of the music of that time that deserves to be preserved in it’s best sonic quality, so future generations can get a picture of that time in space, rock on!

TravelRec.

Yeah, okay - sounds cool and a bit similar to my work at a time that is gone forever... Anyway, be sure you use good DVDs/CDs for backups, rewritable disks are more reliable than simple roms (I heard and read about this fact) and my oldest R/Ws are from 1998 and errorless these days. Have fun!

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bobcat56458

Just an update, I’m doing well with my DAT tape to computer by SPDIF project. I captured digitally 10 tapes so far, and no problems with tape dropouts. In an earlier post on this thread I inquired about being able to capture a digital DD5.1 audio stream. I’ve now figured out how to do this with some help from the link below, but I’ve not yet been able to capture both the DD5.1 audio, and the video at the same time.

[color=#0000ff]http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=190946&sid=cdacc09e69042e5e9114793 eaeb262db[/color]

bobcat56458

I've now figured out how to capture DD5.1 audio and video at the same time. If you are interested how I did this go to the link on my last post here, and on page 2 of that thread you will get the information on how to do this with the kX drivers, and other freeware tools.

Saf

Hi to all!

But, if I have only onboard SPDIF I/O pins (Audigy 2), can I use it for recording SPDIF (direct too) from another device with SPDIF output, and how?

Thanks!

TravelRec.

Which card model numer has your Audigy 2 card? And about which onboard I/O you are speaking?

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Saf

I don'tn know card number, but it is Audigy 2 with AD_EXT pinout (same as in http://kb.kxproject.lugosoft.com/AD_EXT.jpg ) and I speak about SPDIF_IO pins...

Saf

Is here anybody who can help me?