Surrounder+ and 5.1 Surround Copy mode not working

BlackDex · Sep 30, 2005, 01:50 PM

Hello there,

i just installed this fine peace of a driver

.
Works nicely.

Only i can't get normal stereo sound to work on all my 4/5 speakers.
I Have an SoundBlaster Live 5.1 (SB0102).

When i go to the Surrounder+ settings, and i select 5.1 or 5.0 and enable the copy or on mode for surround, nothing happens.

The speaker test works correctly all speakers accounted for, FL, FR, RL, RR, Center. So that shouldn't be the problem.

Is this an buggy in the 3538i drivers? Or do i have to set some more settings then only that copy surround mode?

Thx in advance,
BlackDex

BlackDex · Oct 8, 2005, 02:07 PM

Anyone????

ROBSCIX · Oct 9, 2005, 12:48 AM

soory , A litlle confused...SO when You set it to copy what are you using to test it? I mean how do you know it's not working?

Tril · Oct 9, 2005, 03:58 AM

It should work. I don't know why it does not. I suggest you do a simple test :

- Add a peak plugin to the DSP.
- Connect the sL and sR ouput pins of Surrounder+ the the input pins of Peak.
- Doubleclick the Peak plugin and play some stereo audio.

The Peak plugin should show that a signal is present. When the plugin is in copy mode, the front speakers sound is sent to the front and rear speakers.

That will show you if the problem is located before or after the output of Surrounder+.

thomasabarnes · Oct 9, 2005, 04:57 AM

Are you sure you have the Windows Control Panel speaker mode set to 5.1 as well?
You have to set it at 5.1 and keep it that way. Then, do all speaker mode changes from Surrounder.

EDIT:

LOL OMG, I think my Windows installation or kX installation has gone bad cause now I can place Windows Control Panel (Advanced Audio Properties) on Desktop Stereo Speakers and still control Speaker mode from Surrounder all the way up to 5.1 (yet in Windows Control Panel, Advanced Audio Properties speakermode still reads Desktop Stereo Speakers). But, if I place surrounder on 2.1 it stays that way, even if I go to Windows Control Panel and set speaker mode to 5.1.

This is using 3537, but I'm not about to reinstall windows yet.

Tril · Oct 9, 2005, 08:32 AM

I have another suggestion. It's worth a try.

Download PCI Latency Tool 2.7
http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=951

Usually, the latency of the video card is high and the latency of the sound card is low. That means that the video card gets more priority over the sound card. Try to lower the video card latency a little and to increase the sound card latency a little. Experiment with different values. You can also lower the value for the network card if it's high. I heard that changing the latency fixed some problems with BF2 for some people.

BlackDex · Oct 10, 2005, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tril

It should work. I don't know why it does not. I suggest you do a simple test :

- Add a peak plugin to the DSP.
- Connect the sL and sR ouput pins of Surrounder+ the the input pins of Peak.
- Doubleclick the Peak plugin and play some stereo audio.

The Peak plugin should show that a signal is present. When the plugin is in copy mode, the front speakers sound is sent to the front and rear speakers.

That will show you if the problem is located before or after the output of Surrounder+.

I have tryed this now, but i don't think i have the right 'Peak' Plugin, becouse i can't see anything except 3 slides.

--

Also, i have tryed to play with the Windows speakers settings, this also didn't work well.

Mabye if i remove the Creatve and Kx Drivers totaly from my system and then reinstall it

.

I Will try to do that now..

BTW: i test it using diffrent programs and diffrent sound files.

BlackDex · Oct 10, 2005, 01:09 PM

Okay, i have removed and installed the latest stable version.
This still has no use.

Also i found the 'Peak' plugin. I connected it to the sL and Sr outputs of the Surrounder+ and no spike what so ever.

ROBSCIX · Oct 10, 2005, 06:17 PM

ok try with winamp, make sure that the directsound output plugin is set to 0/1 output. becuase if a audio program isn't set to use 0/1 (surround output) then it won't..alot of programs default to 4/5-stereo fronts. If you set your surrounder to surround on..and have a audio app sendinf output to the 0/1 input the you should be fine..try that out..hope that helps.

BlackDex · Oct 10, 2005, 06:42 PM

Ahhhhh

.
That whas the thing i needed

.

For some reason windows put 4/5 as default.
So i changed that back to 0/1 and selected to only use the default sound devices.

Also configured The Core Media Player to use 0/1 and now it indeed works like a charm

Thx

But what is the diff between 'Copy' and 'On' for the surround settings???

ROBSCIX · Oct 10, 2005, 06:47 PM

thats the thing I remebered Winamp did that to me..it's setting it self to 4/5 because that the front L/R speakers. It's a good thing though especially in a recording situation. where those output are treated as seperate stereo outs..so you don't have 5.1 you have 3 X stereo ouputs..very useful. I am glad you got it fixed.

BlackDex · Oct 10, 2005, 06:58 PM

me to.. This makes listening to music even better.

I Must say that Kx's drivers sound more true for some reason then the Creative drivers.
While listening to stereo sound on all speakers.

ROBSCIX · Oct 10, 2005, 08:40 PM

I always liked winamp in surround mode as well, sometimes with some reverb for some depth. ReverbR from Max UFX pack is great sounding. EAX4 Reverb is also good sounding but you can't asjust anything..it's only presets. I know it's weird we can use the reverb from EAX but have no EAX... A bit of reverb helps adding to the surround image, gives it depth and more width..adjust to taste..hope that helps. BTW yes KX sound alot better than Creative..more musical..

Maddogg6 · Oct 10, 2005, 09:36 PM

If I had to put words on what I heard as a difference from CL to KX is better stereo seperation and more accurate imaging. I use headphones alot and really noticed it that way more so than my cheapo speakers.

I also think CL used some kind of EQ internal to the driver that wasnt adjustable - in the past they've been accused of deliberately 'downgrading' their cards to push the higher priced EMU cards (at us musician types) - example SB-LIVE / EMU APS. ?? maybe - i wont speculate.

But you definitly hear a big difference with KX.

ROBSCIX · Oct 10, 2005, 10:12 PM

yes the difference is very noticable. if it's just the fact that the bette codec is used for the front or other reasons..it just sounds better. Doesn't creative own EMU? and once they purchased that Pro audio company the started offering video cards featuring these effect processor..the famous 10KX line that we all love so much. I even think the new 20KX series also has it root's embeded in the EMU cards again. Your corrects MAdd I also heard certain EMU cards that for hardware sake are exactly the same as their CL counterparts just seem to sound alot better..if thats what your meaning...I try not to specuilate on that type of marketing magic either..I am still considering when I upgrade my audio to grab a EMU card...not sure..or a M-audio

Maddogg6 · Oct 11, 2005, 12:36 AM

Well, in the SB-Live/APS - was JUST a change/hack to the driver - no hardware change was needed. The downgrade (I noticed) was the flexibility - I didnt notice at the time a sound quality difference per se BUT effect quality, flexibility and adjustability was the difference I noticed.

I myself - if needing JUST asio (no sound fonts) I would go M-Audio over emu. (Only because of emu / CL's ties, and Id trust their 24/96 was more than marketing 'deceptions') - I have read mixed reports of good/bad latencies with both.. So, it would be a crap shoot for me otherwise.

But because sound fonts are a staple of what I do, I would go emu if it still does support sound fonts. And Id rather not use a dxi/VSTi for sound fonts.

Sep 30, 2005, 01:50 PM	#1
BlackDex DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 6 Rep Power: 0	Surrounder+ and 5.1 Surround Copy mode not working Hello there, i just installed this fine peace of a driver . Works nicely. Only i can't get normal stereo sound to work on all my 4/5 speakers. I Have an SoundBlaster Live 5.1 (SB0102). When i go to the Surrounder+ settings, and i select 5.1 or 5.0 and enable the copy or on mode for surround, nothing happens. The speaker test works correctly all speakers accounted for, FL, FR, RL, RR, Center. So that shouldn't be the problem. Is this an buggy in the 3538i drivers? Or do i have to set some more settings then only that copy surround mode? Thx in advance, BlackDex

Oct 9, 2005, 04:57 AM	#5
thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,373 Rep Power: 58 System Specs	Are you sure you have the Windows Control Panel speaker mode set to 5.1 as well? You have to set it at 5.1 and keep it that way. Then, do all speaker mode changes from Surrounder. EDIT: LOL OMG, I think my Windows installation or kX installation has gone bad cause now I can place Windows Control Panel (Advanced Audio Properties) on Desktop Stereo Speakers and still control Speaker mode from Surrounder all the way up to 5.1 (yet in Windows Control Panel, Advanced Audio Properties speakermode still reads Desktop Stereo Speakers). But, if I place surrounder on 2.1 it stays that way, even if I go to Windows Control Panel and set speaker mode to 5.1. This is using 3537, but I'm not about to reinstall windows yet. __________________ May a song always touch you in a positive way. Sonar 8.5.3 PE, Windows 7 Pro 64Bit, MOTU UltraLite MK3, 150 GB HDD, 250 GB HDD, 1 TB HDD 7200 rpm, My Music Production: Top 40, Contemporary Christian, Pop/Rock, Decent Rap, Inspirationals, and Children Songs Last edited by thomasabarnes; Oct 9, 2005 at 06:15 AM.

Oct 8, 2005, 02:07 PM	Thread Starter #2
BlackDex DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 6 Rep Power: 0	Anyone????

Oct 9, 2005, 12:48 AM	#3
ROBSCIX DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,732 Rep Power: 0	soory , A litlle confused...SO when You set it to copy what are you using to test it? I mean how do you know it's not working?

Oct 9, 2005, 03:58 AM	#4
Tril S-3D enthusiast Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,675 Rep Power: 62 System Specs	It should work. I don't know why it does not. I suggest you do a simple test : - Add a peak plugin to the DSP. - Connect the sL and sR ouput pins of Surrounder+ the the input pins of Peak. - Doubleclick the Peak plugin and play some stereo audio. The Peak plugin should show that a signal is present. When the plugin is in copy mode, the front speakers sound is sent to the front and rear speakers. That will show you if the problem is located before or after the output of Surrounder+.

Oct 9, 2005, 08:32 AM	#6
Tril S-3D enthusiast Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,675 Rep Power: 62 System Specs	I have another suggestion. It's worth a try. Download PCI Latency Tool 2.7 http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=951 Usually, the latency of the video card is high and the latency of the sound card is low. That means that the video card gets more priority over the sound card. Try to lower the video card latency a little and to increase the sound card latency a little. Experiment with different values. You can also lower the value for the network card if it's high. I heard that changing the latency fixed some problems with BF2 for some people.

Oct 10, 2005, 01:09 PM	Thread Starter #8
BlackDex DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 6 Rep Power: 0	Okay, i have removed and installed the latest stable version. This still has no use. Also i found the 'Peak' plugin. I connected it to the sL and Sr outputs of the Surrounder+ and no spike what so ever.

Oct 10, 2005, 06:17 PM	#9
ROBSCIX DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,732 Rep Power: 0	ok try with winamp, make sure that the directsound output plugin is set to 0/1 output. becuase if a audio program isn't set to use 0/1 (surround output) then it won't..alot of programs default to 4/5-stereo fronts. If you set your surrounder to surround on..and have a audio app sendinf output to the 0/1 input the you should be fine..try that out..hope that helps.

Oct 10, 2005, 06:42 PM	Thread Starter #10
BlackDex DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 6 Rep Power: 0	Ahhhhh . That whas the thing i needed . For some reason windows put 4/5 as default. So i changed that back to 0/1 and selected to only use the default sound devices. Also configured The Core Media Player to use 0/1 and now it indeed works like a charm Thx But what is the diff between 'Copy' and 'On' for the surround settings???

Oct 10, 2005, 06:47 PM	#11
ROBSCIX DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,732 Rep Power: 0	thats the thing I remebered Winamp did that to me..it's setting it self to 4/5 because that the front L/R speakers. It's a good thing though especially in a recording situation. where those output are treated as seperate stereo outs..so you don't have 5.1 you have 3 X stereo ouputs..very useful. I am glad you got it fixed.

Oct 10, 2005, 06:58 PM	Thread Starter #12
BlackDex DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 6 Rep Power: 0	me to.. This makes listening to music even better. I Must say that Kx's drivers sound more true for some reason then the Creative drivers. While listening to stereo sound on all speakers.

Oct 10, 2005, 08:40 PM	#13
ROBSCIX DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,732 Rep Power: 0	I always liked winamp in surround mode as well, sometimes with some reverb for some depth. ReverbR from Max UFX pack is great sounding. EAX4 Reverb is also good sounding but you can't asjust anything..it's only presets. I know it's weird we can use the reverb from EAX but have no EAX... A bit of reverb helps adding to the surround image, gives it depth and more width..adjust to taste..hope that helps. BTW yes KX sound alot better than Creative..more musical..

Oct 10, 2005, 09:36 PM	#14
Maddogg6 Tail Razer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bernyurass, AZ - USA Posts: 4,027 Rep Power: 50	If I had to put words on what I heard as a difference from CL to KX is better stereo seperation and more accurate imaging. I use headphones alot and really noticed it that way more so than my cheapo speakers. I also think CL used some kind of EQ internal to the driver that wasnt adjustable - in the past they've been accused of deliberately 'downgrading' their cards to push the higher priced EMU cards (at us musician types) - example SB-LIVE / EMU APS. ?? maybe - i wont speculate. But you definitly hear a big difference with KX.

Oct 10, 2005, 10:12 PM	#15
ROBSCIX DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,732 Rep Power: 0	yes the difference is very noticable. if it's just the fact that the bette codec is used for the front or other reasons..it just sounds better. Doesn't creative own EMU? and once they purchased that Pro audio company the started offering video cards featuring these effect processor..the famous 10KX line that we all love so much. I even think the new 20KX series also has it root's embeded in the EMU cards again. Your corrects MAdd I also heard certain EMU cards that for hardware sake are exactly the same as their CL counterparts just seem to sound alot better..if thats what your meaning...I try not to specuilate on that type of marketing magic either..I am still considering when I upgrade my audio to grab a EMU card...not sure..or a M-audio

Oct 11, 2005, 12:36 AM	#16
Maddogg6 Tail Razer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bernyurass, AZ - USA Posts: 4,027 Rep Power: 50	Well, in the SB-Live/APS - was JUST a change/hack to the driver - no hardware change was needed. The downgrade (I noticed) was the flexibility - I didnt notice at the time a sound quality difference per se BUT effect quality, flexibility and adjustability was the difference I noticed. I myself - if needing JUST asio (no sound fonts) I would go M-Audio over emu. (Only because of emu / CL's ties, and Id trust their 24/96 was more than marketing 'deceptions') - I have read mixed reports of good/bad latencies with both.. So, it would be a crap shoot for me otherwise. But because sound fonts are a staple of what I do, I would go emu if it still does support sound fonts. And Id rather not use a dxi/VSTi for sound fonts.