SB0220: Can I change firmware?

line · Dec 8, 2005, 11:05 PM

Hi,

I'm an unlucky owner of SoundBlaster Live 5.1 Digital SB0220, an exotic OEM model which apparently is not officialy supported by Creative—at least not by their downloadable drivers. It isn't even listed on their website (here).

I would like to know if it's possible to change the firmware of this card to that of a more supported SB 5.1 model.

Has anyone done it before?

Thanks.

Russ · Dec 8, 2005, 11:12 PM

That would not work because it uses completely different hardware (different AC97 chip, etc). What problem are you having with it?

line · Dec 8, 2005, 11:50 PM

It works with the drivers that came with it, but it doesn't offer legacy DOS interface (SoundBlaster 16 emulation) through the Windows 95/98 drivers like other SB Live cards do. It also doesn't work properly in DOS with the SoundBlaster MS-DOS drivers (DOSDRV). The reason I bought a Live card was its reputation for providing DOS compatibility, and now I'm disappointed.

This card also didn't work here with kX drivers. I got two error messages throughout the installation (one for the audio card, one for the joystick port), and another error after each reboot, telling me that kX failed to initialize the card. I was installing kX from the kxdrv3537-full.exe package.

I thought everything would be simpler if I could turn it into a normal SB Live 5.1 model.

My OS is Windows 98 SE Hebrew Enabled.

Russ · Dec 9, 2005, 12:08 AM

Mine includes the SB16 emulation driver for Win98SE/ME. I have never tried it becuase I use WinXP (and kX), but it is there on the CD (BTW: My card is NOT on OEM model ). As for real mode DOS support I am not sure... kX does work with these models but there are some bugs, so if you want to use kX there are some things you would need to do (depending on the specifc SB022x model (I doubt it is an SB0220, check the serial number, and not the number printed on the card). We can help with getting kX to work, if that is what you want to use (kX does not include am SB16 emulation driver). In any case, I cannot be sure, but I think the same DOS issues exist with other Live! models as well. I think it is just a matter of using the correct driver for your model, and if your model is an OEM model, then it would be up to the OEM to offer an SB16 emulation driver, etc.

BTW: My card is an SB0228 (says SB0220 - SoundBlaster Live! 5.1 Digital on the card).

line · Dec 9, 2005, 12:35 AM

The words "Model SB0220" are written on both on the card itself and the attached sticker. The serial number is C6SB0226416008868A.

Here's the output of Craig's PCI Program:

Code:

Vendor 1102h Creative Labs
Device 0002h EMU10K1 Audio Chipset (SB Live!)
Command 0005h (I/O Access, BusMaster)
Status 0290h (Has Capabilities List, Supports Back-To-Back Trans.,
Medium Timing)
Revision 0Ah, Header Type 80h, Bus Latency Timer 40h
Minimum Bus Grant 02h, Maximum Bus Latency 14h
Self test 00h (Self test not supported)
PCI Class Multimedia, type Audio
Subsystem ID 80671102h SB0220 SBLive! 5.1 Digital
Subsystem Vendor 1102h Creative Labs

My drivers CD has the Creative logo on it, but it has no DOS-related drivers. The PDF manual doesn't mention DOS either. The driver itself is not LiveWare but some WDM stuff. I tried LiveWare from Creative's website but it failed.

Yes, I'd like to try out the kX driver here. If it is not too much work on your side, can you please tell me how to get around the error messages? If you need more information, I can try again to install it and write down the exact error messages.

Russ · Dec 9, 2005, 12:53 AM

Ok, from the serial number, I would guess that it is a SB0226 (and not an OEM model). My installation CD has no DOS-related drivers either, but it does include the SB16 emulation driver for Win98SE/ME (SB16.inf in the Win98SE/ME drivers folder). As for kX, your best bet is to use kX 3538h (3538i and future versions do not support Win98SE/ME, and 3537 does not work fully with some SB022x models). Make sure you fully remove the CL drivers before installing kX (use Driver CLeaner Pro or similair). Let Windows redetect the hardware, but choose cancel if it tries to install a driver (you may have to remove the .inf files themselves if Windows installs a driver automatcially). Then install kX 3538c, then 3538g, and then 3538h (see the 3538h release thread for installation instructions). Those versions can be downloaded from here. kX should work with the card, but you may not get the rear channels (so uncheck the swap front and rear option in kX mixer, or you may not hear anything, and then set kX to 5.1 mode with Surround On and use the speaker test to see if your rear channels work). If the rear channels work, than you are good to go, otherwise you may need to use my SB022x Test plugin (T22X58O) instead of epilog (that plugin is available from the same link above), but maybe we should wait until you get to that point before going into too many details. If your rear channels do not work, open up kX's 'about' window, scroll down to "Hardware/Software Configuration" and post that info here. (if it says: Codec name: Unk AC97-codec [83847658], then you will need to use the SB022x Test plugin to get your rear channels working).

line · Dec 9, 2005, 02:47 AM

Ah, yes, I have a SB16.inf file too, but it was not called during the installation. Installing it by hand (via "Add New Hardware") leads to an error:

http://img432.imageshack.us/img432/4...board010lp.png

I learnt on Usenet that a normal SB Live calls for 3 device installations (at least on Windows 9x): sound card device, joystick device, and emulation device. My card lacks the latter, and I thought I'd be able to solve that by swapping firmware. Alas, this is not possible, but I'll get over it.

Thank you for your help so far (much appreciated!) and for the details on installing kX. I will try it later and report what happens.

Russ · Dec 9, 2005, 03:36 AM

Hmm, I never tried the SB16 emulation with this card because I do not have Win98SE/ME, so I cannot say for sure it works, but I do not see why it wouldn't. Does it show an IRQ conflict or anything? Some motherboards do not support the legacy stuff, and some have an option in the BIOS to reserve certain IRQ's for legacy devices, etc. I would check the website of your motherboard manufacturer for any known issues with any sound cards or SB16 emulation, etc.
i.e.
This is from the FAQ about my mobo:

Quote:

After I install audio driver for Creative PCI 128 / SB Live! Player 1024 / SB Live Platinum for A7V motherboard, I got IRQ conflict in the system. How can I fix the problem?
The Creative® sound cards need two IRQs. One is for SB16 DOS emulation (ISA IRQ) and the other is for PCI IRQ. The BIOS assigns all IRQ to PCI slot by default because A7V doesn't have ISA slot. Please correct the problem with the following setting in the BIOS setup menu. Advanced -> PCI Configuration -> PCI/PNP IRQ Resource Exclusion -> "IRQ 5 Reserved for Legacy Device" -> "Yes"

line · Dec 9, 2005, 06:17 AM

Yeah, I'm aware of SB16 emulation issues such as IRQ conflicts, but my problem is different.

The FAQ that you quoted says that "The Creative® sound cards need two IRQs". This is typical for "normal" SB Live cards that I was referring to in previous posts. That exactly was what I expected my card to do.

The weird thing is that my card takes up only one IRQ. Emulation was not installed in the first place, neither is there a place in Device Manager to toggle it. As a result, the classic DOS A220, IRQ 5, DMA 1 interface was never set up. This card seems to have dropped DOS compatibility, and that's what I found so disappointing.

As for the kX drivers, they finally work! It took a few tries, as well as a few reboots, to put everything in order, but now it's alright. The kX driver appears to be more robust than the CL driver. Also, with the primary stereo speakers connected to the rear (black) port, I supposedly get an even better playback SNR. Not bad at all.

Russ · Dec 9, 2005, 06:21 AM

Do your rear channels work without the T22X58O plugin?

line · Dec 9, 2005, 07:56 AM

Yes, "Speaker Test" worked on all four speakers (one stereo set was on the green/front port, and another set was next to it on the black/rear port), one speaker at a time. Various settings in Surrounder+ also worked, as well as channel swap.

I then installed T22X58O (with a double-click in Windows explorer). It said "Successfully registered 1 plugin(s)", but didn't seem to affect anything.

Btw, here is the current information in the About dialog:

Code:

----Hardware / Software configuration---------------
Driver Name:kX Audio Driver (Debug)
Driver Date: Dec 10 2004 08:59:00
Driver Version: 5.10.00.3538 - debug
DB Name:none
SB0220 10k1 [e400]
PCI Information: 
Device: 21102 Subsys: 80671102 ChipRev: a
Card has MPU device
Card model is '5.1'
Card HAS AC97 codec
	Codec name: SigmaTel STAC9708
	3D Extension: SigmaTel 3D Enhancement
	Codec is 2.0 compliant
	Capabilities[6940]	 :
	DAC resolutions : -16-bit- -18-bit-
	ADC resolutions : -16-bit- -18-bit-
	Ext Capabilities [80]: -PCM surround DAC-
Port: e400 Irq: 0x11(17)
Playback buffer: 20a0
Record buffer: 4000
Number of AC3 buffers: 4
Tank memory: 256 kb
GSIF buffer: 256 samples
OS version: [1 4 10 A ; 1 4 10 A ; 156 148]
----------------------------------------------------

Russ · Dec 9, 2005, 08:17 AM

Ok, good. So your card is a little different from mine. Yours is actually more similair to the other Live! models than mine is. It probably would have worked with kX 3537 if you did not have trouble with the installation. To complete the installation, you should probably grab the soundfont bank(s) off the CL installation CD (as kX does not come with any Soundfonts), or download some, and load it (through kx mixer) so that you will be able to hear midi, etc.

You can do a lot with kX, but it can be a little confusing at first, so read the FAQ's and guides that are available, and play around in the DSP window to learn how to use it, and I think you will be happy with it.

line · Dec 9, 2005, 09:49 AM

Ok, I loaded CT2MGM.SF2, and MIDI files can now play through the "kX Synth SB0220 10k1" device.

This kX driver looks interesting indeed. I'll definitely read more about it.

Thanks for your help

Michael Berg · Dec 26, 2005, 08:55 PM

I have a SBLive! 5.1, the model number on the card is SB0220, serial # is C6SB0228424020483W. It came in a Creative box, and the chip on it is a EMU10K1-JFF. Presumably this one will work with KX, won't it, Russ?

Thanks,

Mick Berg.

Russ · Dec 26, 2005, 11:17 PM

Yeah, it looks like it is a SB0228 and it should work with kX. Try kX 3538i, and see if your rear speakers work (make sure Surrounder is set to 5.1 with Surround On when testing your speakers using the speaker test applet). If the rear speakers do not work, post your Hardware / Software configuration info from kX's 'about' window and we can tell you what you need to do to get it working.

Dec 8, 2005, 11:05 PM	#1
line DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10 Rep Power: 0	SB0220: Can I change firmware? Hi, I'm an unlucky owner of SoundBlaster Live 5.1 Digital SB0220, an exotic OEM model which apparently is not officialy supported by Creative—at least not by their downloadable drivers. It isn't even listed on their website (here). I would like to know if it's possible to change the firmware of this card to that of a more supported SB 5.1 model. Has anyone done it before? Thanks. Last edited by line; Dec 8, 2005 at 11:51 PM.

Dec 9, 2005, 12:35 AM	#5
line DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10 Rep Power: 0	The words "Model SB0220" are written on both on the card itself and the attached sticker. The serial number is C6SB0226416008868A. Here's the output of Craig's PCI Program: Code: Vendor 1102h Creative Labs Device 0002h EMU10K1 Audio Chipset (SB Live!) Command 0005h (I/O Access, BusMaster) Status 0290h (Has Capabilities List, Supports Back-To-Back Trans., Medium Timing) Revision 0Ah, Header Type 80h, Bus Latency Timer 40h Minimum Bus Grant 02h, Maximum Bus Latency 14h Self test 00h (Self test not supported) PCI Class Multimedia, type Audio Subsystem ID 80671102h SB0220 SBLive! 5.1 Digital Subsystem Vendor 1102h Creative Labs My drivers CD has the Creative logo on it, but it has no DOS-related drivers. The PDF manual doesn't mention DOS either. The driver itself is not LiveWare but some WDM stuff. I tried LiveWare from Creative's website but it failed. Yes, I'd like to try out the kX driver here. If it is not too much work on your side, can you please tell me how to get around the error messages? If you need more information, I can try again to install it and write down the exact error messages.

Dec 8, 2005, 11:12 PM	#2
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,984 Rep Power: 44	That would not work because it uses completely different hardware (different AC97 chip, etc). What problem are you having with it?

Dec 8, 2005, 11:50 PM	#3
line DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10 Rep Power: 0	It works with the drivers that came with it, but it doesn't offer legacy DOS interface (SoundBlaster 16 emulation) through the Windows 95/98 drivers like other SB Live cards do. It also doesn't work properly in DOS with the SoundBlaster MS-DOS drivers (DOSDRV). The reason I bought a Live card was its reputation for providing DOS compatibility, and now I'm disappointed. This card also didn't work here with kX drivers. I got two error messages throughout the installation (one for the audio card, one for the joystick port), and another error after each reboot, telling me that kX failed to initialize the card. I was installing kX from the kxdrv3537-full.exe package. I thought everything would be simpler if I could turn it into a normal SB Live 5.1 model. My OS is Windows 98 SE Hebrew Enabled.

Dec 9, 2005, 12:08 AM	#4
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,984 Rep Power: 44	Mine includes the SB16 emulation driver for Win98SE/ME. I have never tried it becuase I use WinXP (and kX), but it is there on the CD (BTW: My card is NOT on OEM model ). As for real mode DOS support I am not sure... kX does work with these models but there are some bugs, so if you want to use kX there are some things you would need to do (depending on the specifc SB022x model (I doubt it is an SB0220, check the serial number, and not the number printed on the card). We can help with getting kX to work, if that is what you want to use (kX does not include am SB16 emulation driver). In any case, I cannot be sure, but I think the same DOS issues exist with other Live! models as well. I think it is just a matter of using the correct driver for your model, and if your model is an OEM model, then it would be up to the OEM to offer an SB16 emulation driver, etc. BTW: My card is an SB0228 (says SB0220 - SoundBlaster Live! 5.1 Digital on the card).

Dec 9, 2005, 12:53 AM	#6
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,984 Rep Power: 44	Ok, from the serial number, I would guess that it is a SB0226 (and not an OEM model). My installation CD has no DOS-related drivers either, but it does include the SB16 emulation driver for Win98SE/ME (SB16.inf in the Win98SE/ME drivers folder). As for kX, your best bet is to use kX 3538h (3538i and future versions do not support Win98SE/ME, and 3537 does not work fully with some SB022x models). Make sure you fully remove the CL drivers before installing kX (use Driver CLeaner Pro or similair). Let Windows redetect the hardware, but choose cancel if it tries to install a driver (you may have to remove the .inf files themselves if Windows installs a driver automatcially). Then install kX 3538c, then 3538g, and then 3538h (see the 3538h release thread for installation instructions). Those versions can be downloaded from here. kX should work with the card, but you may not get the rear channels (so uncheck the swap front and rear option in kX mixer, or you may not hear anything, and then set kX to 5.1 mode with Surround On and use the speaker test to see if your rear channels work). If the rear channels work, than you are good to go, otherwise you may need to use my SB022x Test plugin (T22X58O) instead of epilog (that plugin is available from the same link above), but maybe we should wait until you get to that point before going into too many details. If your rear channels do not work, open up kX's 'about' window, scroll down to "Hardware/Software Configuration" and post that info here. (if it says: Codec name: Unk AC97-codec [83847658], then you will need to use the SB022x Test plugin to get your rear channels working).

Dec 9, 2005, 02:47 AM	#7
line DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10 Rep Power: 0	Ah, yes, I have a SB16.inf file too, but it was not called during the installation. Installing it by hand (via "Add New Hardware") leads to an error: http://img432.imageshack.us/img432/4...board010lp.png I learnt on Usenet that a normal SB Live calls for 3 device installations (at least on Windows 9x): sound card device, joystick device, and emulation device. My card lacks the latter, and I thought I'd be able to solve that by swapping firmware. Alas, this is not possible, but I'll get over it. Thank you for your help so far (much appreciated!) and for the details on installing kX. I will try it later and report what happens.

Dec 9, 2005, 06:17 AM	#9
line DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10 Rep Power: 0	Yeah, I'm aware of SB16 emulation issues such as IRQ conflicts, but my problem is different. The FAQ that you quoted says that "The Creative® sound cards need two IRQs". This is typical for "normal" SB Live cards that I was referring to in previous posts. That exactly was what I expected my card to do. The weird thing is that my card takes up only one IRQ. Emulation was not installed in the first place, neither is there a place in Device Manager to toggle it. As a result, the classic DOS A220, IRQ 5, DMA 1 interface was never set up. This card seems to have dropped DOS compatibility, and that's what I found so disappointing. As for the kX drivers, they finally work! It took a few tries, as well as a few reboots, to put everything in order, but now it's alright. The kX driver appears to be more robust than the CL driver. Also, with the primary stereo speakers connected to the rear (black) port, I supposedly get an even better playback SNR. Not bad at all.

Dec 9, 2005, 06:21 AM	#10
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,984 Rep Power: 44	Do your rear channels work without the T22X58O plugin?

Dec 9, 2005, 08:17 AM	#12
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,984 Rep Power: 44	Ok, good. So your card is a little different from mine. Yours is actually more similair to the other Live! models than mine is. It probably would have worked with kX 3537 if you did not have trouble with the installation. To complete the installation, you should probably grab the soundfont bank(s) off the CL installation CD (as kX does not come with any Soundfonts), or download some, and load it (through kx mixer) so that you will be able to hear midi, etc. You can do a lot with kX, but it can be a little confusing at first, so read the FAQ's and guides that are available, and play around in the DSP window to learn how to use it, and I think you will be happy with it.

Dec 9, 2005, 09:49 AM	#13
line DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10 Rep Power: 0	Ok, I loaded CT2MGM.SF2, and MIDI files can now play through the "kX Synth SB0220 10k1" device. This kX driver looks interesting indeed. I'll definitely read more about it. Thanks for your help

Dec 26, 2005, 08:55 PM	#14
Michael Berg DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: LA Posts: 26 Rep Power: 0	I have a SBLive! 5.1, the model number on the card is SB0220, serial # is C6SB0228424020483W. It came in a Creative box, and the chip on it is a EMU10K1-JFF. Presumably this one will work with KX, won't it, Russ? Thanks, Mick Berg.

Dec 26, 2005, 11:17 PM	#15
Russ HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,984 Rep Power: 44	Yeah, it looks like it is a SB0228 and it should work with kX. Try kX 3538i, and see if your rear speakers work (make sure Surrounder is set to 5.1 with Surround On when testing your speakers using the speaker test applet). If the rear speakers do not work, post your Hardware / Software configuration info from kX's 'about' window and we can tell you what you need to do to get it working.