kX's future looking grim? To Eugene

PooshhMao · Dec 9, 2005, 11:13 AM

Hi,

Although I'm not a big fan of the company, I've been using Creative soundcards for over ten years now, using a SB16 to use in Fasttracker under DOS, eventually replacing it by a SB Live!, then an Audigy, then an Audigy 2 Platinum Pro ZS.

I started using kX just before I bought the Audigy, which was more or less 4 years ago, and never looked back. 4 years later, I can't say I noticed dramatic progression - I understand it's free, entirely voluntarily, and we have no right to press the developer.

But please consider the following - within a year, it will be very tough to find cards to buy which kX supports - the Audigy 2 still isn't supported 100%, and sales-wise it's an old and obsolete card now.

Because of this, it's unlikely kX's user base will grow, and Creative releases new sound cards faster than kX has intermediate releases.

I understand the Audigy 4 or the X-Fi use different chips, so they'll never work with kX.

I move my rig and audio gear to friends sometimes to jam together, and there's slight damage on the breakout box (the Firewire port doesn't work anymore), but I can't replace it with anything I can buy that works with kX.

I can program, and I'm VERY motivated to help developing kX.
I'm not interested in working on the sound driver cores, I'm not smart enough for that, and Creative made you promise not to share the code anyone.

That's fine - everything besides the sound core would benefit from an overhaul too. Please Eugene, I'd hate to see your wonderful software fall behind and become obsolete.

JGSF · Dec 9, 2005, 12:50 PM

Man, even if I get a better card I'm going to keep the audigy 2 with kx drivers in my system...

For example, it's great for mixing soundsources onstage, having different outputs combinations of the same sources, I can do everything I want...

Plus, all the faders can be midi controlled... It's perfect.

Can it get any better?

(edit: well, actually there's only the 44khz asio implementation, but really, anyway, it's already good enough for me like this)

Tril · Dec 9, 2005, 04:16 PM

You can still find SB16 sound cards in stores. I don't see SBlive! and Audigy cards disappearing very soon. If you can still find very old cards, you can probably find more recent ones.

TravelRec. · Dec 9, 2005, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny1982

Man, even if I get a better card I'm going to keep the audigy 2 with kx drivers in my system...

For example, it's great for mixing soundsources onstage, having different outputs combinations of the same sources, I can do everything I want...

Plus, all the faders can be midi controlled... It's perfect.

Can it get any better?

(edit: well, actually there's only the 44khz asio implementation, but really, anyway, it's already good enough for me like this)

100% ACK! Don´t forget: kX is for free

Doug W · Dec 10, 2005, 05:09 AM

Quote:

using a SB16 to use in Fasttracker under DOS

As soon as I finish a major home project I am setting up one of my old computers with DOS 6.22 and start tracking again with Impulse Tracker.

Quote:

I can program, and I'm VERY motivated to help developing kX.
I'm not interested in working on the sound driver cores, I'm not smart enough for that

I would suggest sending a PM to dj_stick to volunteer your services, new blood is usually a good thing for any project.

Quote:

everything besides the sound core would benefit from an overhaul too.

So what are some of your ideas for an overhaul? I am not trying to bait you or anything like that-just curious about what changes you would like to see.

PooshhMao · Dec 13, 2005, 08:40 AM

Well if the developer allows me to, the first things I would start working on would be;

- Remove the built-in mixer from the kX package, but provide it in plugin-form;
(The mixer is handy for newbies, but useless for experienced people; for those using alternatives for the epilog, most (all?) controls are removed anyway)

- Provide an option to disable the system tray icon (I hate system trays myself), and implement command line options to open any window or plugin directly through the command line; (kx.exe -dsp to toggle the dsp window, kx.exe -asio to toggle the asio settings window, etc)

- Help finalize the SDK to motivate plugin developers (and make all the old ones work again, for good!);

- (Don't know if this is feasible yet), if ITRAM is full, have additional plugins load in RAM;

- Repackage the installer. Make kX install to a single directory of your choice, instead of putting a copy there (why?) as well as windows\system32

- Rework the default look, and solidify the skin system;

- Plenty more ideas that would make kX more of a slick, streamlined package

thomasabarnes · Dec 13, 2005, 09:21 AM

Very interesting.

Lex Nahumury · Dec 13, 2005, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PooshhMao

.....- Plenty more ideas that would make kX more of a slick, streamlined package

FIY:
It is possible all along to write a total new user interface for kX.
The ikx interface, which hardly ever changes relevantly, provides practicly all functionality to do so. (Review kxi.h)

The level of functionality, number of features, third party compatibility etc. etc.
is (as always) only a matter of how much effort one is willing to put in to it.

/LeMury

imperia · Dec 14, 2005, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PooshhMao

- Remove the built-in mixer from the kX package, but provide it in plugin-form;
(The mixer is handy for newbies, but useless for experienced people; for those using alternatives for the epilog, most (all?) controls are removed anyway)

build in mixer is really useless. noobs revert to creative drivers all the time.
if you are clever enough probably you will never return to creative drivers even if you are gamer like me. i am not going to get X-Fi just because i am in love with the flexebility of this driver. it has "endless" potential.

bjorkiii · Dec 14, 2005, 11:00 AM

I have an audigy4 pro and am listening through kx drivers and i definately hear better sound quality or do i just think im hearing better sound quality

Sture · Dec 19, 2005, 10:04 AM

I think it could perhaps be a good idea to get some new people involved in the future development of the kX Driver. Do not get me wrong, Eugene and Co have made a fantastic work for many years. I have followed and used the kX driver since the first version was released as I followed closely the activities of the APS Live project and still use v. 3537. The v. 3538 has been very slow and we have not yet seen 3538j that would fix drums on midi channel 10 etc. I also very much miss the 24/96 ASIO recording, that I have waited for several years. I understand that Eugene has other important things to do in life besides the kX project, but since he is alone in coding and having the NDA's with Creative, it looks to me as he is the "bottleneck" in the development work.

I recently bought a 2nd hand E-mu APS card with the breakout box and must say that the APS mixer interface is so much better and so much easier to understand. If kX would do a similar interface for a new version, I think that would benefit many musicians, not only myself.

There are so many talented people that contribute daily to the kX development, writing plug-ins etc. Could Eugene transfer some key NDA's (or could Creative be pursuaded to sign new ones for people like LeMury etc.) to carry the project further?

Kind regards, Sture

PooshhMao · Dec 21, 2005, 12:53 PM

It's no use. I've sent Eugene a PM a week ago, and I haven't gotten any replies so far.

Afaik, the NDA's are only valid regarding the core driver code; I can't see how Creative could legally enforce prohibition for other people to work on the package that comes with it.

Cards built for music production are becoming more affordable anyway, and kX
a half finished mess of awesome features for rapidly dating hardware.

Lex Nahumury · Dec 21, 2005, 01:24 PM

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/showthre...395#post653395

Dec 9, 2005, 11:13 AM	#1
PooshhMao DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 48 Rep Power: 0	kX's future looking grim? To Eugene Hi, Although I'm not a big fan of the company, I've been using Creative soundcards for over ten years now, using a SB16 to use in Fasttracker under DOS, eventually replacing it by a SB Live!, then an Audigy, then an Audigy 2 Platinum Pro ZS. I started using kX just before I bought the Audigy, which was more or less 4 years ago, and never looked back. 4 years later, I can't say I noticed dramatic progression - I understand it's free, entirely voluntarily, and we have no right to press the developer. But please consider the following - within a year, it will be very tough to find cards to buy which kX supports - the Audigy 2 still isn't supported 100%, and sales-wise it's an old and obsolete card now. Because of this, it's unlikely kX's user base will grow, and Creative releases new sound cards faster than kX has intermediate releases. I understand the Audigy 4 or the X-Fi use different chips, so they'll never work with kX. I move my rig and audio gear to friends sometimes to jam together, and there's slight damage on the breakout box (the Firewire port doesn't work anymore), but I can't replace it with anything I can buy that works with kX. I can program, and I'm VERY motivated to help developing kX. I'm not interested in working on the sound driver cores, I'm not smart enough for that, and Creative made you promise not to share the code anyone. That's fine - everything besides the sound core would benefit from an overhaul too. Please Eugene, I'd hate to see your wonderful software fall behind and become obsolete.

Dec 13, 2005, 09:21 AM	#7
thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,375 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Very interesting. __________________ May a song always touch you in a positive way. SONAR X1D Expanded, Windows 7 Pro 64Bit, MOTU UltraLite MK3, 150 GB HDD, 250 GB HDD, 1 TB x2 HDD 7200 rpm My Music Production: Top 40, Contemporary Christian, Pop/Rock, Decent Rap, Inspirationals, and Children Songs

Dec 9, 2005, 12:50 PM	#2
JGSF HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 452 Rep Power: 0	Man, even if I get a better card I'm going to keep the audigy 2 with kx drivers in my system... For example, it's great for mixing soundsources onstage, having different outputs combinations of the same sources, I can do everything I want... Plus, all the faders can be midi controlled... It's perfect. Can it get any better? (edit: well, actually there's only the 44khz asio implementation, but really, anyway, it's already good enough for me like this)

Dec 9, 2005, 04:16 PM	#3
Tril S-3D enthusiast Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,676 Rep Power: 64 System Specs	You can still find SB16 sound cards in stores. I don't see SBlive! and Audigy cards disappearing very soon. If you can still find very old cards, you can probably find more recent ones.

Dec 13, 2005, 08:40 AM	Thread Starter #6
PooshhMao DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 48 Rep Power: 0	Well if the developer allows me to, the first things I would start working on would be; - Remove the built-in mixer from the kX package, but provide it in plugin-form; (The mixer is handy for newbies, but useless for experienced people; for those using alternatives for the epilog, most (all?) controls are removed anyway) - Provide an option to disable the system tray icon (I hate system trays myself), and implement command line options to open any window or plugin directly through the command line; (kx.exe -dsp to toggle the dsp window, kx.exe -asio to toggle the asio settings window, etc) - Help finalize the SDK to motivate plugin developers (and make all the old ones work again, for good!); - (Don't know if this is feasible yet), if ITRAM is full, have additional plugins load in RAM; - Repackage the installer. Make kX install to a single directory of your choice, instead of putting a copy there (why?) as well as windows\system32 - Rework the default look, and solidify the skin system; - Plenty more ideas that would make kX more of a slick, streamlined package

Dec 14, 2005, 11:00 AM	#10
bjorkiii DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3 Rep Power: 0	I have an audigy4 pro and am listening through kx drivers and i definately hear better sound quality or do i just think im hearing better sound quality

Dec 19, 2005, 10:04 AM	#11
Sture DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 58 Rep Power: 0	I think it could perhaps be a good idea to get some new people involved in the future development of the kX Driver. Do not get me wrong, Eugene and Co have made a fantastic work for many years. I have followed and used the kX driver since the first version was released as I followed closely the activities of the APS Live project and still use v. 3537. The v. 3538 has been very slow and we have not yet seen 3538j that would fix drums on midi channel 10 etc. I also very much miss the 24/96 ASIO recording, that I have waited for several years. I understand that Eugene has other important things to do in life besides the kX project, but since he is alone in coding and having the NDA's with Creative, it looks to me as he is the "bottleneck" in the development work. I recently bought a 2nd hand E-mu APS card with the breakout box and must say that the APS mixer interface is so much better and so much easier to understand. If kX would do a similar interface for a new version, I think that would benefit many musicians, not only myself. There are so many talented people that contribute daily to the kX development, writing plug-ins etc. Could Eugene transfer some key NDA's (or could Creative be pursuaded to sign new ones for people like LeMury etc.) to carry the project further? Kind regards, Sture

Dec 21, 2005, 12:53 PM	Thread Starter #12
PooshhMao DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 48 Rep Power: 0	It's no use. I've sent Eugene a PM a week ago, and I haven't gotten any replies so far. Afaik, the NDA's are only valid regarding the core driver code; I can't see how Creative could legally enforce prohibition for other people to work on the package that comes with it. Cards built for music production are becoming more affordable anyway, and kX a half finished mess of awesome features for rapidly dating hardware.

Dec 21, 2005, 01:24 PM	#13
Lex Nahumury DH Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,932 Rep Power: 64	http://www.hardwareheaven.com/showthre...395#post653395