Recording at 24/96 Khz!

radsoul · Jan 12, 2006, 02:10 AM

I was read most of the post in this forum about WDM 24 bit support in KX drivers ,tried most of the settings in the DSP like many pepole from this forum, and my conculsion is that current KX vesrion does not support 24 bit at all!
KX drivers are very good for 16 bit recording,but everybody who says that KX support 24 bit
recording, it's mistake!
I would like to meet someone who had got 24 bit in Sonar via WDM!

KX really gets sound better,but for 24 bit recordings Creative Drivers are only solution for 24
bit recording!

thomasabarnes · Jan 12, 2006, 10:11 AM

"u must select wavehq device for playing and recording also in the windows audio control panel."

Right click the kX icon in the taskbar and select multimedia properties, select the Audio tab, and select wavehq device under the Sound playback and the Sound recording section. I would also say select the Voice tab, and select the wavehq device under the Voice playback and and the Voice Recording section.

Then follow these instructions:

"- Plug your source in Line in,
- Enable AC97 <--> I2S redirection (Easy when using 3538h, chechk inputs to be sure),
- Select I2S 1 as P16V Recording Source,
- In your audio application, select Wave HQ device, and use 24bits padded to 32bits audio format...

Did you do this?

Maddogg6 · Jan 13, 2006, 05:28 AM

Confirmed - SONAR 5 WILL record 96/24 - Set Driver Bit stream to '32 Bit PCM Right Justified'

Make sure you can re-start sonar WITH NO WARNINGS - this is important -

It DOES work - KX V3538h & SB0350 (A2zs Plat)

thomasabarnes · Jan 13, 2006, 05:42 AM

OK, thx for the info. I will post tomorrow with some questions. I'm sleepy now.

thomasabarnes · Jan 13, 2006, 09:07 PM

Hi all:

Hiya Maddogg6. I'm sure you will see this post because youre a kX lover who browses the forum, too. hehe As soon as I heard that at least one kX user (the starter of this thread) was saying that kX doesnt support 24 Bit recording, and that he could'nt record 24/96 using SONAR, I got all over this matter by consulting the SONARians and Cakewalk staff (after Max M made the post that kX does support 24-bit recording via MME/WDM WaveHQ port. (for all A2 cards - 96kHz since ver. 35 and 48..192 kHz since ver. 37)). I read some user speaking about this ability, but since I only have an Audigy, I didnt pursue the matter.

Another thing is I wonder if Max M meant 24/96 recording can be done using Audigy 2 ZS cards or really all Audigy 2 sound cards? I hope Max M reads this and replies to clarify this. Well after this guy said he couldnt record 24/96 using SONAR, and after Max M posted the info I mentioned above, I went to the SONAR forum and posted with a request for information to see if SONAR has a 24 Bit format compatible with the kX driver.

Ron Kuper (Vice President of Cakewalk) gave me this info about SONAR's 24 bit implementation:

"SONAR has several choices for the 24-bit audio format being streamed to the driver:

[1] 24-bits in 3 bytes, "packed"
[2] 24-bits in 4 bytes, "unpacked" and left-justified (ie, the most signficant bit of the sample is aligned to the most significant bit of the 4 byte container)
[3] 24-bits in 4 bytes, "unpacked" and right-justified (ie, the least signficant bit of the sample is aligned to the least significant bit of the 4 byte container)

It also supports these formats, because some drivers advertise 24-bit as 32-bit (as does the kX driver)

[4] 32-bits (though really 24) in 4 bytes, "unpacked" and left-justified
[5] 32-bits (though really 24) in 4 bytes, "unpacked" and right-justified"

Right after I got the info from you, Maddogg6, that you could record 24/96 using SONAR and your Audigy 2 ZS, Ron kuper replied to my post.

Now, one of the reasons I sought to ascertain the reality about the matter is because (as I'm sure you know) kX users have been waiting to have the ability to record 24/96 (and I know it's preferred to be in ASIO driver mode), and I need this sure information to place in the SONAR and kX Setup guide I wrote (I know I need to revise that guide cause it can be improved and I believe this 24/96 recording ability has got to be placed in the guide).

Now, Maddogg6, since you stressed the point that you needed to get SONAR to start without a warning message before you were able to be able to record 24/96, that got me to thinking that maybe the cause of the error was because the wavehq device wasnt initially selected as Sound playback and Sound recording device in Windows control Panel. So, maybe if the Cakewalk.ini file was deleted, before you restarted SONAR after selecting the wavehq device for playback and recording device and re-running the SONAR wave profiler, the warning message might not have occurred.

My point is, I'd like to get to the bottom of this. That is, to get a list of thing's one has to do to be able to record 24/96 using SONAR, so we can help kX users to be able to do this, and I can place this info in the guide I wrote.

OK, I'm finally done. Does anyone have any comments to make?

Doug W · Jan 13, 2006, 10:13 PM

Thomas-Maddogg6

OK, I am confused. I thought 24 bit support was not available at all yet with kX. Maybe I haven't been paying attention to threads on the subject since my current computer probably would grind to a halt with 24 bit recording but it sounds like Maddogg6 is recording at 24/96...Right?

thomasabarnes · Jan 13, 2006, 11:05 PM

Doug W:

You read this entire thread? Right?

Ok, also read this one: http://driverheaven.net/showthread.php?t=95476 Note post #5

and this one: http://driverheaven.net/showthread.p...highlight=Wave (Note post #2 and post #17).

Maddogg6 · Jan 13, 2006, 11:06 PM

24/96 WDM ONLY is possible. Or did I use MME..?? I cant fricken remeber now.. damnit.
YES - I recorded IN SONAR 5 W KX3538h - Stereo ONLY - Its done JUST as thomas explains - but Sonar 5 is flakey in changing audio settings... Once you get past that - and re-start sonar with NO WARNINGS - all is good - except - in the status its say its 16 bit project - but exporting shows its actually 32 bit - I presume 32 bit is handled as 2 samples - 24 bit padded to 32 - then split in half, sonar displaying the 16 because of this.. ??

I DID also enable read/write caching - default buffer size.

This is just results of testing and NOT real world use -
Until I have a 24/96 DSP Ill continue to stick with KX native format.

So YES it works - how well??... You let us know

.

Maddogg6 · Jan 13, 2006, 11:24 PM

Ok - what I will do is later tonight - take some screen caps of the Sonar audio settings and Ill make a lil tutorial for sonar w/ 24/96 recording...

heh - I figured there were more here already using the 24/96.

Maddogg6 · Jan 14, 2006, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomasabarnes

Hi all:

Hiya Maddogg6. I'm sure you will see this post because youre a kX lover who browses the forum, too. hehe As soon as I heard that at least one kX user (the starter of this thread) was saying that kX doesnt support 24 Bit recording, and that he could'nt record 24/96 using SONAR, I got all over this matter by consulting the SONARians and Cakewalk staff (after Max M made the post that kX does support 24-bit recording via MME/WDM WaveHQ port. (for all A2 cards - 96kHz since ver. 35 and 48..192 kHz since ver. 37)). I read some user speaking about this ability, but since I only have an Audigy, I didnt pursue the matter.

Hey Thomas...
heh - I didnt look much further either because 24/96 recording with a 16/48 dsp just seems - pointless really... so lol

Quote:

Another thing is I wonder if Max M meant 24/96 recording can be done using Audigy 2 ZS cards or really all Audigy 2 sound cards? I hope Max M reads this and replies to clarify this. Well after this guy said he couldnt record 24/96 using SONAR, and after Max M posted the info I mentioned above, I went to the SONAR forum and posted with a request for information to see if SONAR has a 24 Bit format compatible with the kX driver.

Ron Kuper (Vice President of Cakewalk) gave me this info about SONAR's 24 bit implementation:

"SONAR has several choices for the 24-bit audio format being streamed to the driver:

[1] 24-bits in 3 bytes, "packed"
[2] 24-bits in 4 bytes, "unpacked" and left-justified (ie, the most signficant bit of the sample is aligned to the most significant bit of the 4 byte container)
[3] 24-bits in 4 bytes, "unpacked" and right-justified (ie, the least signficant bit of the sample is aligned to the least significant bit of the 4 byte container)

It also supports these formats, because some drivers advertise 24-bit as 32-bit (as does the kX driver)

[4] 32-bits (though really 24) in 4 bytes, "unpacked" and left-justified
[5] 32-bits (though really 24) in 4 bytes, "unpacked" and right-justified"

I think Sonar 5 - they're called differently...

I beleive its the 32 bits right justified - #5 in your post is my first notion of w.
Also - it too multiple re-atarts of sonar in make settings changes - let me see If I cant figure out a pateren of EXACTLY the motions to go through - cuz it is a bit flakey/mis-leading-ill-logical

Quote:

Right after I got the info from you, Maddogg6, that you could record 24/96 using SONAR and your Audigy 2 ZS, Ron kuper replied to my post.

Now, one of the reasons I sought to ascertain the reality about the matter is because (as I'm sure you know) kX users have been waiting to have the ability to record 24/96 (and I know it's preferred to be in ASIO driver mode), and I need this sure information to place in the SONAR and kX Setup guide I wrote (I know I need to revise that guide cause it can be improved and I believe this 24/96 recording ability has got to be placed in the guide).

Now, Maddogg6, since you stressed the point that you needed to get SONAR to start without a warning message before you were able to be able to record 24/96, that got me to thinking that maybe the cause of the error was because the wavehq device wasnt initially selected as Sound playback and Sound recording device in Windows control Panel. So, maybe if the Cakewalk.ini file was deleted, before you restarted SONAR after selecting the wavehq device for playback and recording device and re-running the SONAR wave profiler, the warning message might not have occurred.

My point is, I'd like to get to the bottom of this. That is, to get a list of thing's one has to do to be able to record 24/96 using SONAR, so we can help kX users to be able to do this, and I can place this info in the guide I wrote.

OK, I'm finally done. Does anyone have any comments to make?

Max M. · Jan 14, 2006, 01:08 AM

>Another thing is I wonder if Max M meant 24/96 recording can be done using Audigy 2 ZS cards or really all Audigy 2 sound cards?

Really all A2 cards. E.g.: Audigy2, Audigy2 ZS, Audigy 2 Value and i suppose Audigy 4 (and Audigy 4 Value?)

**dj_stick** · Jan 14, 2006, 01:36 AM

the ES has the p16v?

thomasabarnes · Jan 14, 2006, 05:46 AM

Max M.:

Thanks for the clarification! That's good news, indeed!

I do recall when the Audigy series ist came out there was just 1 that had 24/96 recording and playback support. After what youre saying here, I take it that the Audigy ES is the one. hehe It's exciting to here this news! And it's shocking to hear this has been a possibility since 3537 and before that even. How did this knowledge slip by us kX users?

Maddogg6:

I replied to your PM.

Thanks.

Doug W · Jan 14, 2006, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Doug W:

You read this entire thread? Right?

Reading back to Eugene's kX Project Status post, I see now that it says No ASIO 24/96 support expected. I think I read it as no 24/96 support-period. Just not paying close attention I guess. Maybe I will update to the nTrack 24 bit version and see if I can smoke my computer.

thomasabarnes · Jan 14, 2006, 07:18 AM

Roger, Doug W, I C.

Cya around.

Max M. · Jan 14, 2006, 12:12 PM

dj_stick

hasn't it? Well, you'd better to know since you have one

Does kX show WaveHQ for ES? if not then it's my mistake (and ES is not A2)...

**dj_stick** · Jan 14, 2006, 12:18 PM

yeah, your post confused me, it has no p16v router, no waveHQ

you may have been confused with the retail version, the LS, that iirc was 24bit, but unsupported by kX

Max M. · Jan 14, 2006, 12:22 PM

OK, sorry (i wonder what made me to think so - myabe the fact that ES has come out same time as ZS).
i've edited my post above to avoid any confusions.

**dj_stick** · Jan 14, 2006, 12:29 PM

yeah back then there were three cards
the A2ZS for the higher end retail, LS for lower end retail and ES for oem

Jan 13, 2006, 05:42 AM	#4
thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,375 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	OK, thx for the info. I will post tomorrow with some questions. I'm sleepy now. __________________ May a song always touch you in a positive way. SONAR X1D Expanded, Windows 7 Pro 64Bit, MOTU UltraLite MK3, 150 GB HDD, 250 GB HDD, 1 TB x2 HDD 7200 rpm My Music Production: Top 40, Contemporary Christian, Pop/Rock, Decent Rap, Inspirationals, and Children Songs

Jan 13, 2006, 11:05 PM	#7
thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,375 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Doug W: You read this entire thread? Right? Ok, also read this one: http://driverheaven.net/showthread.php?t=95476 Note post #5 and this one: http://driverheaven.net/showthread.p...highlight=Wave (Note post #2 and post #17). __________________ May a song always touch you in a positive way. SONAR X1D Expanded, Windows 7 Pro 64Bit, MOTU UltraLite MK3, 150 GB HDD, 250 GB HDD, 1 TB x2 HDD 7200 rpm My Music Production: Top 40, Contemporary Christian, Pop/Rock, Decent Rap, Inspirationals, and Children Songs Last edited by thomasabarnes; Jan 13, 2006 at 11:17 PM.

Jan 14, 2006, 01:08 AM	#11
Max M. h/h member-shmember Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Evil Empire Posts: 2,639 Rep Power: 69	>Another thing is I wonder if Max M meant 24/96 recording can be done using Audigy 2 ZS cards or really all Audigy 2 sound cards? Really all A2 cards. E.g.: Audigy2, Audigy2 ZS, Audigy 2 Value and i suppose Audigy 4 (and Audigy 4 Value?) Last edited by Max M.; Jan 14, 2006 at 12:22 PM.

Jan 14, 2006, 05:46 AM	#13
thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,375 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Max M.: Thanks for the clarification! That's good news, indeed! I do recall when the Audigy series ist came out there was just 1 that had 24/96 recording and playback support. After what youre saying here, I take it that the Audigy ES is the one. hehe It's exciting to here this news! And it's shocking to hear this has been a possibility since 3537 and before that even. How did this knowledge slip by us kX users? Maddogg6: I replied to your PM. Thanks. __________________ May a song always touch you in a positive way. SONAR X1D Expanded, Windows 7 Pro 64Bit, MOTU UltraLite MK3, 150 GB HDD, 250 GB HDD, 1 TB x2 HDD 7200 rpm My Music Production: Top 40, Contemporary Christian, Pop/Rock, Decent Rap, Inspirationals, and Children Songs Last edited by thomasabarnes; Jan 14, 2006 at 06:02 AM.

Jan 14, 2006, 07:18 AM	#15
thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,375 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Roger, Doug W, I C. Cya around. __________________ May a song always touch you in a positive way. SONAR X1D Expanded, Windows 7 Pro 64Bit, MOTU UltraLite MK3, 150 GB HDD, 250 GB HDD, 1 TB x2 HDD 7200 rpm My Music Production: Top 40, Contemporary Christian, Pop/Rock, Decent Rap, Inspirationals, and Children Songs

Jan 12, 2006, 02:10 AM	#1
radsoul DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 7 Rep Power: 0	Recording at 24/96 Khz! I was read most of the post in this forum about WDM 24 bit support in KX drivers ,tried most of the settings in the DSP like many pepole from this forum, and my conculsion is that current KX vesrion does not support 24 bit at all! KX drivers are very good for 16 bit recording,but everybody who says that KX support 24 bit recording, it's mistake! I would like to meet someone who had got 24 bit in Sonar via WDM! KX really gets sound better,but for 24 bit recordings Creative Drivers are only solution for 24 bit recording!

Jan 12, 2006, 10:11 AM	#2
thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,375 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	"u must select wavehq device for playing and recording also in the windows audio control panel." Right click the kX icon in the taskbar and select multimedia properties, select the Audio tab, and select wavehq device under the Sound playback and the Sound recording section. I would also say select the Voice tab, and select the wavehq device under the Voice playback and and the Voice Recording section. Then follow these instructions: "- Plug your source in Line in, - Enable AC97 <--> I2S redirection (Easy when using 3538h, chechk inputs to be sure), - Select I2S 1 as P16V Recording Source, - In your audio application, select Wave HQ device, and use 24bits padded to 32bits audio format... Did you do this? __________________ May a song always touch you in a positive way. SONAR X1D Expanded, Windows 7 Pro 64Bit, MOTU UltraLite MK3, 150 GB HDD, 250 GB HDD, 1 TB x2 HDD 7200 rpm My Music Production: Top 40, Contemporary Christian, Pop/Rock, Decent Rap, Inspirationals, and Children Songs

Jan 13, 2006, 05:28 AM	#3
Maddogg6 Tail Razer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bernyurass, AZ - USA Posts: 4,027 Rep Power: 0	Confirmed - SONAR 5 WILL record 96/24 - Set Driver Bit stream to '32 Bit PCM Right Justified' Make sure you can re-start sonar WITH NO WARNINGS - this is important - It DOES work - KX V3538h & SB0350 (A2zs Plat)

Jan 13, 2006, 09:07 PM	#5
thomasabarnes Long Time ***** Friend Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,375 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Hi all: Hiya Maddogg6. I'm sure you will see this post because youre a kX lover who browses the forum, too. hehe As soon as I heard that at least one kX user (the starter of this thread) was saying that kX doesnt support 24 Bit recording, and that he could'nt record 24/96 using SONAR, I got all over this matter by consulting the SONARians and Cakewalk staff (after Max M made the post that kX does support 24-bit recording via MME/WDM WaveHQ port. (for all A2 cards - 96kHz since ver. 35 and 48..192 kHz since ver. 37)). I read some user speaking about this ability, but since I only have an Audigy, I didnt pursue the matter. Another thing is I wonder if Max M meant 24/96 recording can be done using Audigy 2 ZS cards or really all Audigy 2 sound cards? I hope Max M reads this and replies to clarify this. Well after this guy said he couldnt record 24/96 using SONAR, and after Max M posted the info I mentioned above, I went to the SONAR forum and posted with a request for information to see if SONAR has a 24 Bit format compatible with the kX driver. Ron Kuper (Vice President of Cakewalk) gave me this info about SONAR's 24 bit implementation: "SONAR has several choices for the 24-bit audio format being streamed to the driver: [1] 24-bits in 3 bytes, "packed" [2] 24-bits in 4 bytes, "unpacked" and left-justified (ie, the most signficant bit of the sample is aligned to the most significant bit of the 4 byte container) [3] 24-bits in 4 bytes, "unpacked" and right-justified (ie, the least signficant bit of the sample is aligned to the least significant bit of the 4 byte container) It also supports these formats, because some drivers advertise 24-bit as 32-bit (as does the kX driver) [4] 32-bits (though really 24) in 4 bytes, "unpacked" and left-justified [5] 32-bits (though really 24) in 4 bytes, "unpacked" and right-justified" Right after I got the info from you, Maddogg6, that you could record 24/96 using SONAR and your Audigy 2 ZS, Ron kuper replied to my post. Now, one of the reasons I sought to ascertain the reality about the matter is because (as I'm sure you know) kX users have been waiting to have the ability to record 24/96 (and I know it's preferred to be in ASIO driver mode), and I need this sure information to place in the SONAR and kX Setup guide I wrote (I know I need to revise that guide cause it can be improved and I believe this 24/96 recording ability has got to be placed in the guide). Now, Maddogg6, since you stressed the point that you needed to get SONAR to start without a warning message before you were able to be able to record 24/96, that got me to thinking that maybe the cause of the error was because the wavehq device wasnt initially selected as Sound playback and Sound recording device in Windows control Panel. So, maybe if the Cakewalk.ini file was deleted, before you restarted SONAR after selecting the wavehq device for playback and recording device and re-running the SONAR wave profiler, the warning message might not have occurred. My point is, I'd like to get to the bottom of this. That is, to get a list of thing's one has to do to be able to record 24/96 using SONAR, so we can help kX users to be able to do this, and I can place this info in the guide I wrote. OK, I'm finally done. Does anyone have any comments to make? __________________ May a song always touch you in a positive way. SONAR X1D Expanded, Windows 7 Pro 64Bit, MOTU UltraLite MK3, 150 GB HDD, 250 GB HDD, 1 TB x2 HDD 7200 rpm My Music Production: Top 40, Contemporary Christian, Pop/Rock, Decent Rap, Inspirationals, and Children Songs Last edited by thomasabarnes; Jan 13, 2006 at 09:26 PM.

Jan 13, 2006, 10:13 PM	#6
Doug W HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Montevideo, MN USA Posts: 973 Rep Power: 0	Thomas-Maddogg6 OK, I am confused. I thought 24 bit support was not available at all yet with kX. Maybe I haven't been paying attention to threads on the subject since my current computer probably would grind to a halt with 24 bit recording but it sounds like Maddogg6 is recording at 24/96...Right?

Jan 13, 2006, 11:06 PM	#8
Maddogg6 Tail Razer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bernyurass, AZ - USA Posts: 4,027 Rep Power: 0	24/96 WDM ONLY is possible. Or did I use MME..?? I cant fricken remeber now.. damnit. YES - I recorded IN SONAR 5 W KX3538h - Stereo ONLY - Its done JUST as thomas explains - but Sonar 5 is flakey in changing audio settings... Once you get past that - and re-start sonar with NO WARNINGS - all is good - except - in the status its say its 16 bit project - but exporting shows its actually 32 bit - I presume 32 bit is handled as 2 samples - 24 bit padded to 32 - then split in half, sonar displaying the 16 because of this.. ?? I DID also enable read/write caching - default buffer size. This is just results of testing and NOT real world use - Until I have a 24/96 DSP Ill continue to stick with KX native format. So YES it works - how well??... You let us know .

Jan 13, 2006, 11:24 PM	#9
Maddogg6 Tail Razer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bernyurass, AZ - USA Posts: 4,027 Rep Power: 0	Ok - what I will do is later tonight - take some screen caps of the Sonar audio settings and Ill make a lil tutorial for sonar w/ 24/96 recording... heh - I figured there were more here already using the 24/96.

Jan 14, 2006, 12:12 PM	#16
Max M. h/h member-shmember Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Evil Empire Posts: 2,639 Rep Power: 69	dj_stick hasn't it? Well, you'd better to know since you have one Does kX show WaveHQ for ES? if not then it's my mistake (and ES is not A2)...

Jan 14, 2006, 12:22 PM	#18
Max M. h/h member-shmember Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Evil Empire Posts: 2,639 Rep Power: 69	OK, sorry (i wonder what made me to think so - myabe the fact that ES has come out same time as ZS). i've edited my post above to avoid any confusions.