waylonc

I am thinking of purchasing a used Audigy ZS.What I would like to do is use the 8(?) analog outputs as a digital crossover to individual drivers(sub,woof,mid ,tweeter) in stereo with foobar crossover dsp.Has anyone done this?Can I still use kernel streaming or must I use asio or directsound?I would like to use minimal drivers(kx project?) and have the option of 16/44,24/88,42/96 resample,preferably just with Foobar.Has the final truth of 16/44 being resampled to 16/48 come to light?I have read if all the extra dsp software is not used the card hardware will not resample the signal to 16/48.If anyone could shed some light on this I and share your experience I would appreciate it.

dj_stick

you should be able to use any sound source, however you will be stuck with 16/48 for what you need to do

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waylonc

Could you elaborate?Would 24/96(with or without kx driver) be possible on all 8?And are all the outputs the same quality?Thankyou for helping me make an informed decision.

Maddogg6

The DSP (the part that would do the EQ/crossover) gets bypassed when 24/96 is played.
YOU CAN - allow 'conversion' to 16/48 - so the DSP can do the EQ/Crossover.

Note: if your just wanting MP3 playback - KX will play just about anything in Foobar/Winamp.
AND the eq/crossover is possible also (I do something kinda-sorta what your looking for. Its pretty easy to do with the KX DSP.)

To answer your question directly - 24/96 playback is sent to 1 output only. - This output port is selected in the 'KX 24/96 router'.

waylonc

This is the dsp I would like use with foobar.
http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=514601.

After the crossover plugin I would enable the Foobar dsp resampler to 24/96 or 32/96.
Are you saying I cannot do this as there is only 1 stereo(2 mono of 8 channels)output that can handle 24/96?But if I output all 8 with 16/48 it is possible?

"High Definition Audio Quality for Playback and Recording
24-bit Digital-to-Analog conversion during playback with sampling rates of 8, 11.025, 16, 22.05, 24, 32, 44.1, 48 and 96kHz in 7.1 mode and up to 192kHz in stereo mode" from Creative's documentation.

Are they saying 24/96 in 7.1(8 effectively) only when using dolby or dts.

Thankyou both for your assistance.

Maddogg6

First off - I assume you meant you have an Audigy 2ZS... Its the card I have also.

Most of what this foobar plugin accomplishes - can be done in KX DSP alone - thus saving PC resources.

well its more complicated than a simple answer can explain.. BUT to accomplish what you wish to do - can be done with KX alone - with no need to use the above plugin - to send crossed-over/eq to each output available. Except! There are only 3 analog and 3 SPDIF outs available on the back of the A2ZS card. So Bass/Mid/Trebble is possible with out need to add anything to the card (Drivebay IO box) - so even with that plugin - you still will only have those same outputs.


DTS is ONLY decoded by using software that will do so. CL included a DVD-A player that would - but wont work without CL drivers installed - but there are other players that might work..?? I don't know.

Its also stating (as well as KX does also support) playback of pretty much any format up to 192Khz. If theres a limit of format for AC3 decoding - I don't know about it - I dont have any 192 stuff - I can playback 24/96 with out problems.

The above statement from CL - is this:
A DVD can be played that has a 5.1/6.1/7.1 encoded stream up to a 24/96 format.
I never seen a multi-channel encoded stream less than 44Khz or above 96Khz.
I never seen anything in 192 Khz.
So KX does ALL i need.

For the most part (other than DTS) KX has given me more features than what I had from CL drivers - but I also put more emphasis on MIDI production and ASIO performance (which KX is WAY better than CL drivers) - I didn't have CL drivers installed long enough to see how DTS and other mutli-channel sound worked.

Im thinking we're overcomplicating the simple act of playback.
I'm pretty sure switching to KX will give you more options and capability than CL drivers do.

It also depends on if you will be using the Audigy analog outputs or if you have an external DAC/digital speakers and want to use SPDIF (digital) outputs.

It might be best to state what your exact requirements are.

dj_stick

the A2ZS has 8 analogue outputs, how ever you need a pair of camcorder (4 pole minijack to 3x rca) to access the last pair

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Maddogg6

Ahh - I seen that for SPDIF out - but not about for analog -

I presume I'd need 2 tho.

dj_stick

yes, as two of the analogue jacks are 4 pole, and one is 3 pole, can't remember which is which though, i only use stereo

also the stock audigy 2 also has one 4 pole jack to get to it's last channel

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waylonc

I think I became a little confused with your answer of:

To answer your question directly - 24/96 playback is sent to 1 output only. - This output port is selected in the 'KX 24/96 router'.

and confused the issue even more with:

Are they saying 24/96 in 7.1(8 effectively) only when using dolby or dts.

"High Definition Audio Quality for Playback and Recording
24-bit Digital-to-Analog conversion during playback with sampling rates of 8, 11.025, 16, 22.05, 24, 32, 44.1, 48 and 96kHz in 7.1 mode and up to 192kHz in stereo mode" from Creative's documentation.

I only wish to have my setup in stereo(even with dvd's) with 4 active drivers(sub,woof,mid,tweet) in the left side and 4 active drivers on the right.

I do not mind using the 4 pole 3.5mm jacks to get the 2 extra channels(hope I'm using the right term) for a total of 4 discrete left and 4 discrete right.

And I wish to do this all in glorious 24/96 with no lesser opamps or dacs in some of the 8 channels.

If I use kmixer you are saying I will be able to use this active crossover setup with not only foobar but my dvd software as well(windvd7 and zoom player) in 24/96 or 16/48.



I have not seen kmixer yet nor the crossover function but am looking forward to having fun with this project.

Thankyou

Maddogg6

I guess Im not capable of explaining...

maybe some one can put in a more understandable way.. ??

waylonc

I would be using only the analog outputs.

Maddogg6

Does this apply to A2ZS Plats?

How is this accessed in DSP?

Maddogg6

I guess if you HAVE TO HAVE 24/96 - I would suggest getting a true 24/95 card - one that has a DSP NOT limited to 16/48.

If you can live with 16/48 - you'll be good with the A2 and KX.

Any more than that will prolly just need getting to know how the card works to understand better.

waylonc

Thankyou both for your patience.

Could you tell me how the kx crossover compares with the foobar crossover dsp in functionality.The dsp for foobar looks quite straight forward?

Does kx driver do kernel streaming while as an active crossover?Or must it be asio?

Even though I may be limited to 16/48 the creative card and kx crossover is looking more attractive for including video(no video in foobar unfortunately).I also noticed people interchange a2 and a2 zs as though they were the same card .Could you point me to some llinks that point out the different capabilities between the two particularily in regards to the various delivery systems(not sure of proper term) asio,directsound,waveout,ks.

I would also like to hear your opinions and experiences of using the audigy(or any other's for that matter)as an active crossover.Is this a relatively new frontier,almost certainly with budget equipment.

Even though I have not used kxproject yet I would like to express my admiration for the amount of effort creator Eugene Gavrilov has given.And your quick responces dj stick and Maddog6 help bring me steps closer to a long shelved project.

Maddogg6

They are very similar - something to be aware of is the differences between the 'retail', 'OEM' and 'Value cards.

Im by NO means an expert - but this is how I understand it.. (DJStick can prolly provide more info than me)

The retail packaged A2 is lacking 1 analog out - as well as a slightly 'cheaper' ADC/DAC.
The OEM (if they exist - SBLive OEM ARE NOT supported by KX)
The Value - I think some report that the AD_EXT connector on the board is missing - Thus, any 'expansion' is impossible.

I just checked foobar - All output modes are working.
ASIO is NOT needed for active crosover.

KX allows VERY flexible use of EQ (10 Band, Low/Band/High pass - completely adjustable F & Q)
There a great HarmonicsGen (Made by Trill, a user here) That helps kick the lows up a notch.
Quite frankly - between the 2 (KX and DSP plugins for Foobar) would be quite powerfull - but I dont use foobar as much as winamp - and normally I dont get very excited about many plugins for media players as they tend to sound good for one song - but then the next song needs 'tweaking'. This is true for some KX effects as well - but the EQ and HarmonicsGen are very usable. Not to mention some pretty good reverbs if thats your thing.


Just give it a try... all my typing is prolly just gonna cause confusion/cause more questions...

dj_stick

with the original audigy 1 series, there was no physicial difference between oem and retail cards, except for cosmetic differences (plastic jacks vs metal)
the audigy 2 oem or no, is the same afaik, as with the ZS i'm guessing
audigy 2 value is 7.1 iirc, but with lower quality components, and no expansion, and the audigy 1 value/se cards use a different chip and are unsupported.

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waylonc

I have now experienced the longest thread of my life.For the most part you can just read the posts by geofstro for his emu 1212 and get the gist.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...970#post836970

A summary page:
http://www.duffroomcorrection.com/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.duffroomcorrection.com/wiki/User:ShinOBIWAN

Has anyone used "Console" before:
http://www.console.jp/eng/index.html

I am curious to know more about routing signals from source player through a eq/dsp host,applying filters and sending the signals to the individual outs of a creative labs card.

Techniques and insight using kx project router etc....and other means.

Also interested in possibility of using emu patchmix for the audigy 2 zs.

So if anyone can save me a lot of research time, please post your experiences,settings..... using creative labs cards as pc dsp crossovers.

bzdang

Hi waylonc, search on diyaudio for 'bzdang', 'kxproject', 'instant crossover prototyping', and you will have some info to get a good start. Don't worry about 24/96 yet, the kxproject/audigy2 combination is easy and cheap to implement, doesn't require massive cpu resources, works with any pc audio sources without stuttering. It sounds very good, especially since you have the tools to properly integrate the output from each driver, and can easily tweak by ear. You may end up with a better sounding system due to optimal crossover setup than you would get with better equipment specs and poorer controls.
It's possible to save multiple crossover setups by filename, and because our ear/brain system tends to self-equalize* rapidly, it is valuable to be able to compare new and previous crossover setups as a reality check.

*just like trying to buy perfume for the wife, we tend to judge the second sniff relative to the first, instead of on it's own merits.