ROBSCIX

OK, I am not sure if anybody has done this or not but heres what I am doing I have a external Mixer plugged LINE_IN to a KX powered Audigy 2 (SB400) . OK now on my mixer I have 12 channels each with a channel insert send return (in,out)..now what I want to do is use my old SB Live and adapters and cables so I can use the SBlive as a effects processor..by using the sendX2 to the line in and the FL,FR to the returnX2 I say X2 because The channels on the mixer are mono so I have to use X2...now any help for me? etc..of course I am gonna have to make a custom DSP config for the SB live...BUT I can use 3537 and all the UFX and other stuff so it's gonna be great..these cards should play nice together?
has anybody attempted this? I will be starting on this in a few hours so if any tips or advice would be appreciated...

Maddogg6

I have a SBLive value (SPDIF Out of AUD_EXT) -> A2ZS Plat (CD SPDIF IN) - and it works as expected, I *could* then just add a 'send' (my original connection being the 'return') from the A2 to the Live to get ability to be used as an effects processor.

ROBSCIX

we'll my SB LIve will add effects to the two channels...but they will be routed back to the Audigy 2 throught the mixer. I was gonna sell the SB Live...But I can load up KX and UFX and patch it the way I want and I have an very nice outboard effects processor for my mixer....The idea just came to me..I also have another 41. live but I don't think I want to try 3 creative cards in the Same machine! two will work..Hey Dogg...I was gonna do that patching that you have going on....DO you use it in this capacity for effects?

Maddogg6

I mostly use it for MIDI - but I do use the line also for a FM Radio - But I have all the KX routing changed for more flexible KX Synth use. I do have the regular reverb and chorus in there - but the A2 can have way many more (I have reverb, chorus, 2 stereo delays, Phasor and Flanger) - Its just a setup that works best for what I do. But I think youll be setting up effects in both - hehe, theres never enough resources.

I could also see using the Live card as a 'gateway' for an external FX unit as well - so, combining KX effects and send/return to an outbord/rack unit would be very flexible as well. Hell, I have so many DSP configs, some tailored to a single project in Sonar. So, I do many different configs.

ROBSCIX

I think it'll just be nice to be able to add reverb to the channel or graphic EQ..only 16 bit effects..but hey gotta use what I got. It's gonna be a bit of a trick going from TRS send&return channel insert's to 1/8" mini jack connectors!...I have a big box of cables and adapters though but I am getting some more tommorow..What you said about presets..yeah I can see me saving a whole bunch. I just thought it was a good way to use my old live. I wish I had more Line_in's but I don't....I do hav a onboard sound DSP..but I Don't think I am gonna worry about that the effects on onboards arean't very good...KX effects are pretty good though.

dj_stick

two standard insert cables (stereo to 2xmono jack) and two 3.5mm jack to 2x6.35mm mono socket cables should be all you need for what you want

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ROBSCIX

I figured out what I need. I will be getting the adapters and cables tommorow. I can't wait to check it out. Do yo uthink I will have any issue running TWO Craetive cards both running KX? 3538j on the Audigy2 and 3537 on the SB Live?

dj_stick

it should be easy enough to manually install the drivers for each card (ie don't run the installer)


but i'm not too sure how well the kX mixer would handle this, not something i've tried before

just a qu, why would you run two different versions?

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ROBSCIX

IS it possible then?...I need to use differnt versions becuase 3537 is the best version for my live as I have UFX etc..in my opinion anyway. My audigy 2 is only usable with version 3538i or above.. SO stick I know a few guys have more than one card installed..BUT is it possible to have both running KX in the way I am talking about...IF I can't use KX in this way I guess I will load creative drivers for my A2 but I waited until this was compatible.SO guys does anybody know for sure if Two cards can be used running KX?..thx for any info.

dj_stick

i have two cards running kX now, but using the same version

imo the steps you might want to take are as follows

set a system restore point/back up
run the installer package for 3537, install the driver package only, not the driver
run the installer package for 3538, install the drivers for the a2 and gameports
manually install 3537 driver for the live using the device manager
reboot, and see if that works without any headaches

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ROBSCIX

Maybe it would be easier to use the same version but I would have more Flexibility using 3537 on the Live!...I guess I'll have to see how it works tommorow...I'll let you know...

Maddogg6

Im using 3538I for both my cards - works as expected

Windows wants to install its own driver first for my live card...
So I needed to do a manual install for the Live AFTER installing KX for A2.
It seemed the KX install wouldn't find the Live card, prolly because I couldnt get XP to NOT install MS drivers for the Live card..

ROBSCIX

Actually the fact that I want to use 3537 for my live should make the whol thing easier(maybe) as the A2 I have is compatible with 3537 so when I install 3537 it'll only find the SB Live correct? but I don't know about the KX mixer and such...I guess I will just have to try it and see if I can get it figured out..

Maddogg6

I suspect there could be conflicts in DLL versions - IIRC they are installed in win/system32/ - which I *think* will be over written istaling one version after the other..??

So,.. 'easy' is not the word I was thinking of. hehe.

ROBSCIX

I wish I could get a definative answer from say Eugene or such..but I guess I will probably just nee to try it out...I think it's a very good idea though..great use for my old SB Live...I was selling it but now I am gonna keep it..it's sitting on my desk maybe I'll put it in the system later and see if I can get it running. DO you guys think it would be easier running the same version of both cards? as you said dog..things will be replaced if I try and install different versions on different cards...Maybe I might have to use creative drivers for the A2...and use 3537 for the DSP Processor...Just to kep everything simple..

Maddogg6

it would definitly be easier using 1 version of KX.

KXAPI.dll; KXGUI.dll, KXASIO.dll, KXCTRL.exe (not to mention the skin files) - are all located in the windows/system32/ - so I'm pretty sure the first KX install will have those files replaced when installing next version - I dont see how you could have 2 version of those files exist at one time.

ROBSCIX

Yeah I think your right Dogg I don't think it'll be possible...SO I have to decide which card I really want KX installed on...IF I installe standard drivers on the SB Live! which I am using as a DSP processor, I will really limit what I can do as far as effects go....LIke a SB Live loaded with 3537 and UFX and ProFX..would make a very good stand alone DSP Processor....Then I have to use Creative drivers for my Audigy 2..hmm interesting problem....lol

dj_stick

if you follow the steps i posted, ONLY the 3538 files (kx mixer etx)are copied to the system 32 folder iirc, manually installing the device drivers using the device manager does not install the kX mixer, so that method has a chance of working

but i will refer Eugene to this thread next time i get the chance

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ROBSCIX

Ok, but would I be able to use the one KX mixer to modify DSP's for both? I understand what you mean stick... I think your right it would let me install the Low level drivers for the SB Live..but what about the other effects I want to load like UFX, ProFX?... Like if it is too much of a iissue then I will just use KX 3537 for the DSP processor for my mixer but Maybe Eugene WOuld have better idea if it can be done and if so how...SO to recap I wan to install to Creative Cards:
SB Live! DE (SB0102)
SB Audigy 2 (SB0400)

I want to install version 3537 for the SB Live! and UFX and PROFX..so I can use it for a DSP processor for my external mixer.

I want to install version 3538j for the SB Audigy 2 and the new ProFX...I use this for recording from my externla Mixer.

I will not try to do anything until I get the low down from Eugene...Thx guys..

Eugene Gavrilov

you cannot mix different driver versions, since they share the same files and registry locations

E.

ROBSCIX

OK, So I have two options either use the Same drivers on both cards..which is possible right?..I think so OR I have to use CL drivers for one of the two cards....hmmm ideas?

dj_stick

same drivers is definately possible

and installing the CL drivers is also another option

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ROBSCIX

SO just instal 3538j..then how would the mixer work? I know there is a check box at the bottom would I just use that to select which card I want the mixer to use?

Maddogg6

Yup - in most all KX screens - that is a dropdown to choose which card to 'edit' on that screen - changing one changes all - so If you leave the DSP open - you'll see it switch from one card to another..

ROBSCIX

I think it's a great use for my old SB Live! so I am gonna attempt today..as I picked up prooper cords and adapters yesterday...I know have 2 channel inserts terminating to twin 1/8" mini so I have one for_line_in 1 for LF,RF out..should work great...I'll keep ya posted...Also guys who have mixers..most of our PC's also have a onboard sound solution while not the best could work for creating reverb or delay for your mixer..

miguel

I'm sorry if i'm just disturbing but I didn't understand what kind or routing your mixer provides. You say "channel insert send return". Do you mean each channel has an input plug, then another pair of in/out plugs for each channel? Channel insert means "inline" indivudual fx for each channel. For this you'd need 12 ins/outs in your soundcard, one for every mixer channel. I think this configuration is not much usual in our average mixers.

On the other hand do you mean that every channel has one or more controls labeled "send..."? Send/return means every channel can send part of its signal to one output where you hook your reverb fx or whatever then mix that reverb-ed signal back in the corresponding "return" input of your mixer

I'd install latest (3538j) on both cards because you'll get an excellent reverb (tiger's i think) and the equalizers (UFX or any other) wouldn't make much sense in a send/return configuration. I just mean you wouldn't miss UFX too much, so 3538j seems like the best compromise to me.

regards

ROBSCIX

OK, I will try and explain as I am just learing about this mixer and mixers in general...it is an older mixer but it was a top-of-the line when it was built. Ok now according to what I have learned, I have channel inserts which are usually used for effects..correct? SO this is what I am using to connect to the sound card. I am in the process of figuring it all out today..so if you have any info for me that would be great..So these effects I want to add I can add them to the channel inserts...I can do two channels or stereos..or upon further studying I can add these FX to the EFX loop which I am figuring out right now..THis mixer is from 1992..I have XLR preamps and channel inserts on EVERY of 12 channels//also has a 620 Watt power output section etc...what I ahve decided to do as support for my SB0400 is still no Total I will just use CL driver for this card which I connect to the sub mix out on the Mixer...then I will load 3537 for my SB Live and connect the Line_in to send 1,send2..and line_out to return 1,return 2... It should work no problem..but this only works for 2 channels stereo operation...I may just use it in the FX loop for the mixer..then I can use it on any channel I want..

dj_stick

the basics with channel inserts, is that the cable usually a stereo jack, that links to a pair of mono jacks, with one of those jacks being the send, and the other the return.
the way that works is to simply "insert" and effect in the signal path through the mixer, think of it in a modular way, you're just adding another module to the signal path, before the EQ (usually)

the fx loop works in a different way, depending on the complexity and quality of your mixer, it's usually either a summed mono out put, or stereo output (usually balanced). There's usually also a stereo fx return input/channel, so you don't need to waste any of your main channels for the fx return. Most mixers will allow you to control the level of fx been sent back

also the age of the mixer doesn't really matter, the basic design has been around for decades iirc, so most tips you hear that are supposed to work on more modern mixers should also work on yours


btw, i myself have a pair of smaller mixers, both with a pair of mix preamps, two stereo inputs, monitor and main (mix) outputs, with record/playback i/o for a pc or tapedeck etc.
However the cheaper of the two has no inserts, but the summed mono fx loop, while the more expensive has a pair of channel inserts for the mic channels, but no fx loop. So while this does not relate directly to you robscix, it might be useful for other members looking to purchase a smaller mixer - make sure you're actually getting what you want/need

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ROBSCIX

Thx for the input..The main idea is what I want to do will work. When i commented on the mixers age I wa just stating a fact..this things is rock solid..truth be told I don't think I would trade this for a newer budget type mixer. I seem to have all the features guys usually go for in a mixer. Phantom power, mic pre's on every channel, channel inserts..shelving EQ..built in FX..etc...Also I can control the Level of EFX 1 (internal) and EFX2 (external) I have controls for send and return levels..is that what your talking about stick?....also I wanted to ask why I have 1 phone connector for my send and two phone connectors for the returns... this mixer also has alot of power to boot if I want to use it for that. I think I am gonna get some monitors though...it's a Yorkville Audio Pro 512 Powered mixer...I have had little success trying to find info online about them..I can't even find that many for sale...lol...anyway, I got it from a freaind so I will be using this one. thx for any info ..

dj_stick

ahh your send/return signal path is the same as on my little mixer, it's a summed mono signal from the mono and stereo inputs (controlled by the EFX2 send knob on each channel). the return is stereo, as some effects units (especially delay) may add some stereo imaging/seperation

sounds like your mixer is quite capable, seems perfect for live application aswell as studio

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