This might end up in the flamezone, but did I ever mention that I HATE networking?

digitalwanderer · Jan 26, 2003, 04:36 PM

Ok, so it's been a really looong weird week with me wife at home on vacation from work last week and I didn't get much done. Alright, granted me kitchen is sparkly and the rest of the house is looking decent and smelling nice...but my systems are pretty much the same as when the week started! (VERY un-normal for me!)

I did NOT get enough "geektime" last week, I seriously didn't and I think it's been driving me a little squirrly. Me apologies if'n I've been weirder than normal as of late, but it should be getting back to normal for me soon. (If'n we use a very loose definition of the word "normal", that is.

)

Oh yeah, the subject; networking. Did I ever mention how much I hate networking? I do. Not that I hate the advantages a network can bring, I love those! It's just getting it all set-up and working that I have the problems with, I'm not very good with it and definately don't really know what I'm doing so I sort of just keep experimenting until I get it right. Maybe it ain't the best way, but it's usually the best way for me to learn how to do something and when I get done I usually have a pretty good understanding of it....

...but not networking. I'm just happy as a clam if'n I can get it all set-up and balanced right.

Why is this an issue now? Well, DSL recently became available to me so of course I jumped on it like a bad dog. My activation date isn't until Tuesday and their tech support absolutely refuses to answer any questions for me until then, (Which I can understand their position on, I just don't gotta like it! ), so I've basically said, "Screw it! Then I'll see if I can just hook it up me own self!".

And I did, sort of.

I figured out the problems with two network cards in one box, (a mind-blowing concept for me, but I have a very simple mind at times.), and have just been trying out every FREAKING combination of bindings/protocols to get this puppy to work under 98se to no avail. I was about to give up last night in disgust and admit that I couldn't hook up 'til me activation date, when I had the damndest thought:

XP.

XP is supposed to network better, but I never thought it did. 98se just works for me on networking, all me computers can see and communicate just peachy with it and the response time is just about the same as if I'm looking at a different drive on me same box. XP is a pain in the nuts to tie into my 98se network and generally won't be able to see any of my 98 boxes, even though it seems to spend about 5 minutes looking for 'em whenever I fire up Explorer.

I know, I know; I just don't know it yet or have it set-up right....but that ain't me point.

I tried setting up me DSL thru XP and it worked!

270K/120K right now, but I think traffic is sort of lousy and it's actually quicker. I'm just happy as a clam it's working and I opened me account!

One problem: I can ONLY access me DSL thru XP so far, with 98se I'm having no luck. It wouldn't be such a bad thing, but my XP install can't see any of my 98se boxes on the network so I can't share the tasty connection yet.

I'm gonna go make a fresh pot-o-joe and fiddle with it some more. I just wanted to toss something up on the boards since I haven't been posting enough lately.

DarkFoss · Jan 26, 2003, 08:02 PM

Dumb question but Did you run XP's network set-up wizard and make a floppy to run on yer 98 comps ?

Necrosis · Jan 26, 2003, 08:30 PM

Oh yeah.

A couple of questions.

1. How do sign into your DSL account? Nice thing about XP is you do not have to install any software to connect (usually) I used to have Sprint w/ a 1.5 megger. Very nice speeds and worked most of the time. It just was a pain in the ass because of PPPoE sure didn't seem to like 2K or anything below that. The worst thing was my DSL modem was USB only...yeah.

2. What version of XP are you running? Professional has more extensive options for networking than Home does.

digitalwanderer · Jan 26, 2003, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DarkFoss
Dumb question but Did you run XP's network set-up wizard and make a floppy to run on yer 98 comps ?

No way! I want to set up my rig with XP on it to run on me 98se network, I do NOT want to re-configure me 98se network to work with my XP rig! (If that makes sense.)

Quote:

Originally posted by Necrosis
Oh yeah.

A couple of questions.

1. How do sign into your DSL account?

I'm not really sure, I sort of wing it.

I used the installed software, but the network was mucked up. By the time I had un-mucked the network, I had hosed the installed software.

I set up the network to what I thought it should be, re-installed the connection manager software from the CD (which also installed a PPPo device of some type under me network adapters, which I bound to TCP/IP & MS Office...but not file & print sharing. ) and it seems to sort of work.

I'm only getting about 157Kb download though from a promised 384-512kb...but it ain't Tuesday yet either.

Quote:

2. What version of XP are you running? Professional has more extensive options for networking than Home does.

Corporate with SP1, lightly tweaked.

I somehow managed to get it all set-up and working on the win98se install, AND I can still see all me boxes on the network at the same time!

Now I'm just gonna have to write everything down and pull everything out and transfer it over to Blue....

Mebbe tomorrow, I've had enough geekfun for this day. Time to start some downloads and go play with the kids for a while. (My son is kicking my arse in Super Monkey Ball 2, but we're all having a blast playing it!

)

Thanks for the suggestions guys, my only trouble now is after I have the connection going and fire up IE 6 it takes about 30-45 seconds "detecting proxy settings" even though it isn't set-up to proxy and their proprietary connection manager is telling me I have a TCP/IP error which isn't letting me connect....even though I'm connected.

Bugger it, it works for now and it's time to kick up me heels a bit.....and WORK!

Darksider · Jan 27, 2003, 04:03 AM

Do yourself a favor and just go out and spend the money on a Linksys 4-port Cable/DSL router. It is easier to setup and you have things such as firewalls built right into the hardware (vs. doing it in software on all the computers).

digitalwanderer · Jan 29, 2003, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darksider
Do yourself a favor and just go out and spend the money on a Linksys 4-port Cable/DSL router. It is easier to setup and you have things such as firewalls built right into the hardware (vs. doing it in software on all the computers).

Man, I TOTALLY agree with you but I just can't spend money on any more computer things right now!

It's a bit of a hot-button issue with me wife, and finding out I got us a $40/mos "deal" on DSL a couple of days ago was really pushing the limits with her...I know when to call it quits while I'm ahead. (It didn't really help that the reason it came up was because she found a $20/mos DSL deal from the same company.

Me explanation about different payment plans for different bandwidths didn't go over so well, she couldn't understand why I wanted a 512Kbps connection for $40 compared to an "up to 128Kbps" connection for $20. (Wives can be SO silly that way, with exceptions duly noted...specially in our Furry couples case.

Mr.Wyre is VERY fortunate to have such a cool wife about such things.

)

I've had it up and running since Saturday at about 160Kbps, I just ran a line test and got 376Kbps now!

I spoke with their Tech Support yesterday and they were WAY COOL!

The guy didn't know the answers to me questions, but he was honest enough to admit it and tell me they were fair questions ("how can I directly access me storage since I'm paying for it", "what speed do I get guaranteed with the $40 compared to $20", "how high can I upgrade me connection to and for how much", etc. You know, the basic stuff.

) and to pass 'em along with a guarantee to get back to me in 10 days about it. (He also had explained previously that they were going to be doing line tests & tweaks for the next 10 days so my final connection speed couldn't really be determined 'til then, which seems fair enough to me.

)

I'm VERY pleased, it's a VERY good thing.

But I'm typing this on Bubbles thru the old 56K right now since the network went down about 20 minutes ago....but I figure it could very well be part of the testing/install so I ain't worried. (They mentioned it will happen from time to time over the next 10 days as part of it, plus I've still got the dial-up paid up for a while so it ain't like I'm suffering...much. Me "bunny-quick 56K" just seems so SLOW now!"

) I just thought I should update this with me happy news as I'm enjoying the new connectivity.

Oh, and I'm gonna be swapping the connection around later from Bubbles to Blue and set it up to proxy all over next. Blue is me "always on, always the same" web-cruiser/media center anymore...so it just makes a hell of a lot more sense. (Plus it's the wife's box, and I think I'd best let her have a taste of the fatty-bandwidth goodness to make her a little less pissed about me unilateraly decided upon upgrade....a little social engineering never hurts.

)

Matth · Jan 30, 2003, 04:14 PM

Don't talk to me about networking!

To transfer some stuff from an old Win95 machine to a new XP box (for my next trick, I'll start from Win3.1 or DOS).

I threw a network card into the old machine (it didn't have one), and then went the Netsetup route...
DAMN! - won't run on Win95, so do it the hard way.
Then I'd forgotten tha 95 doesn't do APIPA adressing, so had to give it an address.

Couldn't get 'em to go, no LINK indication on the X-Over hookup - jiggled one of the cable ends and it came up.
Then had LINK, but no network, and no ping (released the XP firewall)
And maybe, at the same time in desperation, locked the speed down to 10/half at both ends.

Still couldn't see the other machine, until a dim recollection that they don't show up UNLESS they are sharing something - moments later, I had it.

That was the culmination of TWO DAYS of fiddling, after first trying to use my old CD Writer (2x) with zero success, and then (as usual) the Win95 CD required to iinstall any netwrking stuff having disappeared.

digitalwanderer · Jan 30, 2003, 05:44 PM

Sounds like you've been there too....do you ever sit back after it's all set-up and running like you wanted it to and wonder, "Now just HOW in the f-ck did I do that?"?

EDITED BITS: I'm flaking bad today! I almost forgot to mention me new networking nightmare: Now that I got me DSL all set-up and working right on Bubbles I gotta tear it all out and move it over to Blue and figure out how to make the proxying work so I can access it from Bubbles....

evergreen · Jan 30, 2003, 08:28 PM

How's your networking going DW? What is your setup--switch, hub, router, how many PC's? What protocols are you using and if it's just IP, what are the IP settings--address, subnet, gateway?

BTW I love networking, it's pays the bills and makes for great gaming and of course it's the medium by which we are communicating...oh, and the advice on a Linksys router is golden.

digitalwanderer · Jan 30, 2003, 10:05 PM

4 PCs with 10/100 NICs, a cheapy linksys 10/100 4-port hub, LOTS of wires, and winProxy. (The older version, not the new junk!) I just added DSL in with another network card in Bubbles, but I'm gonna transfer it over to Blue and proxy out of her until I can get a router and do it right.

I use TCP/IP pretty much exclusively for net stuff, and IPX to get around me home network.

Chaos · Jan 30, 2003, 10:17 PM

Digi why would you use IPX for home networking if they are all Windows boxes.... I recommend netbeui for your internal protocol, it's faster and more efficient then IPX ( less overhead ) unless you need IPX for internal gaming. Netbeui is included on the XP CD somewhere but not officially supported even though it's their own protocol

digitalwanderer · Jan 30, 2003, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chaos
Digi why would you use IPX for home networking if they are all Windows boxes.... I recommend netbeui for your internal protocol, it's faster and more efficient then IPX ( less overhead ) unless you need IPX for internal gaming. Netbeui is included on the XP CD somewhere but not officially supported even though it's their own protocol

Uhm, the only reason I can come up with that I'm using IPX for is it worked.

I haven't tried netbeui yet, but it's on the 98se disk as well as the XP one so maybe I'll give it a shot. (XP+network=BAD, at least for me. )

The_Neon_Cowboy · Jan 31, 2003, 11:00 AM

I would use tcip network them togeather, trough the xp machine hook up your dsl and you intenet shareing software is on you xp cd...

I used to setup and mantain systems on about a 30 system network. To bad you live to far way other wise i'd just set it up for ya...

evergreen · Jan 31, 2003, 02:00 PM

DW, definitely put TCP/IP on all of your boxes. Look at it as having two networks that you want to talk to each other, so they need to speak the same language. Assign a different IP address to all of your boxes. The 10.whatever range is easy to remember. Example 10.1.1.1, 10.1.1.2, 10.1.1.3. Use a subnet address of 255.0.0.0 on all of the boxes on this network. Of course, make sure your workgroup name is the same on all PC's. Configure the DNS Servers in the TCP/IP properties as well--DNS Server addresses should be provided by your ISP. If you get a Linksys router go back and change the IP address to dynamic (DHCP), as the Linksys will automatically configure all of the necessary settings for you...

Once you have them configured, use the "ping" utility from the command prompt to test connectivity. Example, ping 10.1.1.2. It should give you 4 replies if everything is kicking

digitalwanderer · Jan 31, 2003, 02:15 PM

Ok, I'll try it. Thanks.

Jan 26, 2003, 04:36 PM	#1
digitalwanderer Colour Commentator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Highland, IN USA Posts: 5,619 Rep Power: 0	This might end up in the flamezone, but did I ever mention that I HATE networking? Ok, so it's been a really looong weird week with me wife at home on vacation from work last week and I didn't get much done. Alright, granted me kitchen is sparkly and the rest of the house is looking decent and smelling nice...but my systems are pretty much the same as when the week started! (VERY un-normal for me!) I did NOT get enough "geektime" last week, I seriously didn't and I think it's been driving me a little squirrly. Me apologies if'n I've been weirder than normal as of late, but it should be getting back to normal for me soon. (If'n we use a very loose definition of the word "normal", that is. ) Oh yeah, the subject; networking. Did I ever mention how much I hate networking? I do. Not that I hate the advantages a network can bring, I love those! It's just getting it all set-up and working that I have the problems with, I'm not very good with it and definately don't really know what I'm doing so I sort of just keep experimenting until I get it right. Maybe it ain't the best way, but it's usually the best way for me to learn how to do something and when I get done I usually have a pretty good understanding of it.... ...but not networking. I'm just happy as a clam if'n I can get it all set-up and balanced right. Why is this an issue now? Well, DSL recently became available to me so of course I jumped on it like a bad dog. My activation date isn't until Tuesday and their tech support absolutely refuses to answer any questions for me until then, (Which I can understand their position on, I just don't gotta like it! ), so I've basically said, "Screw it! Then I'll see if I can just hook it up me own self!". And I did, sort of. I figured out the problems with two network cards in one box, (a mind-blowing concept for me, but I have a very simple mind at times.), and have just been trying out every FREAKING combination of bindings/protocols to get this puppy to work under 98se to no avail. I was about to give up last night in disgust and admit that I couldn't hook up 'til me activation date, when I had the damndest thought: XP. XP is supposed to network better, but I never thought it did. 98se just works for me on networking, all me computers can see and communicate just peachy with it and the response time is just about the same as if I'm looking at a different drive on me same box. XP is a pain in the nuts to tie into my 98se network and generally won't be able to see any of my 98 boxes, even though it seems to spend about 5 minutes looking for 'em whenever I fire up Explorer. I know, I know; I just don't know it yet or have it set-up right....but that ain't me point. I tried setting up me DSL thru XP and it worked! 270K/120K right now, but I think traffic is sort of lousy and it's actually quicker. I'm just happy as a clam it's working and I opened me account! One problem: I can ONLY access me DSL thru XP so far, with 98se I'm having no luck. It wouldn't be such a bad thing, but my XP install can't see any of my 98se boxes on the network so I can't share the tasty connection yet. I'm gonna go make a fresh pot-o-joe and fiddle with it some more. I just wanted to toss something up on the boards since I haven't been posting enough lately. __________________ WTF is up with the sigs?

Jan 26, 2003, 08:02 PM	#2
DarkFoss HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Downers Grove IL Posts: 688 Rep Power: 0	Dumb question but Did you run XP's network set-up wizard and make a floppy to run on yer 98 comps ? __________________ Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety,deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin, 1755

Jan 30, 2003, 05:44 PM	Thread Starter #8
digitalwanderer Colour Commentator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Highland, IN USA Posts: 5,619 Rep Power: 0	Yup. Sounds like you've been there too....do you ever sit back after it's all set-up and running like you wanted it to and wonder, "Now just HOW in the f-ck did I do that?"? EDITED BITS: I'm flaking bad today! I almost forgot to mention me new networking nightmare: Now that I got me DSL all set-up and working right on Bubbles I gotta tear it all out and move it over to Blue and figure out how to make the proxying work so I can access it from Bubbles.... __________________ WTF is up with the sigs?

Jan 30, 2003, 10:05 PM	Thread Starter #10
digitalwanderer Colour Commentator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Highland, IN USA Posts: 5,619 Rep Power: 0	Simple network. 4 PCs with 10/100 NICs, a cheapy linksys 10/100 4-port hub, LOTS of wires, and winProxy. (The older version, not the new junk!) I just added DSL in with another network card in Bubbles, but I'm gonna transfer it over to Blue and proxy out of her until I can get a router and do it right. I use TCP/IP pretty much exclusively for net stuff, and IPX to get around me home network. __________________ WTF is up with the sigs?

Jan 30, 2003, 10:17 PM	#11
Chaos Number Nine Join Date: May 2002 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 5,268 Rep Power: 167 System Specs	Digi why would you use IPX for home networking if they are all Windows boxes.... I recommend netbeui for your internal protocol, it's faster and more efficient then IPX ( less overhead ) unless you need IPX for internal gaming. Netbeui is included on the XP CD somewhere but not officially supported even though it's their own protocol __________________

Jan 26, 2003, 08:30 PM	#3
Necrosis HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 8,838 Rep Power: 131 System Specs	Oh yeah. A couple of questions. 1. How do sign into your DSL account? Nice thing about XP is you do not have to install any software to connect (usually) I used to have Sprint w/ a 1.5 megger. Very nice speeds and worked most of the time. It just was a pain in the ass because of PPPoE sure didn't seem to like 2K or anything below that. The worst thing was my DSL modem was USB only...yeah. 2. What version of XP are you running? Professional has more extensive options for networking than Home does.

Jan 27, 2003, 04:03 AM	#5
Darksider I Play NWN and UT2003 Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 202 Rep Power: 0	Do yourself a favor and just go out and spend the money on a Linksys 4-port Cable/DSL router. It is easier to setup and you have things such as firewalls built right into the hardware (vs. doing it in software on all the computers).

Jan 30, 2003, 04:14 PM	#7
Matth Flash Banner Hater Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: UK Posts: 3,426 Rep Power: 93 System Specs	Don't talk to me about networking! To transfer some stuff from an old Win95 machine to a new XP box (for my next trick, I'll start from Win3.1 or DOS). I threw a network card into the old machine (it didn't have one), and then went the Netsetup route... DAMN! - won't run on Win95, so do it the hard way. Then I'd forgotten tha 95 doesn't do APIPA adressing, so had to give it an address. Couldn't get 'em to go, no LINK indication on the X-Over hookup - jiggled one of the cable ends and it came up. Then had LINK, but no network, and no ping (released the XP firewall) And maybe, at the same time in desperation, locked the speed down to 10/half at both ends. Still couldn't see the other machine, until a dim recollection that they don't show up UNLESS they are sharing something - moments later, I had it. That was the culmination of TWO DAYS of fiddling, after first trying to use my old CD Writer (2x) with zero success, and then (as usual) the Win95 CD required to iinstall any netwrking stuff having disappeared.

Jan 30, 2003, 08:28 PM	#9
evergreen DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: West Virginia Posts: 148 Rep Power: 0	How's your networking going DW? What is your setup--switch, hub, router, how many PC's? What protocols are you using and if it's just IP, what are the IP settings--address, subnet, gateway? BTW I love networking, it's pays the bills and makes for great gaming and of course it's the medium by which we are communicating...oh, and the advice on a Linksys router is golden.

Jan 31, 2003, 11:00 AM	#13
The_Neon_Cowboy HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 16,009 Rep Power: 92 System Specs	I would use tcip network them togeather, trough the xp machine hook up your dsl and you intenet shareing software is on you xp cd... I used to setup and mantain systems on about a 30 system network. To bad you live to far way other wise i'd just set it up for ya...

Jan 31, 2003, 02:00 PM	#14
evergreen DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: West Virginia Posts: 148 Rep Power: 0	DW, definitely put TCP/IP on all of your boxes. Look at it as having two networks that you want to talk to each other, so they need to speak the same language. Assign a different IP address to all of your boxes. The 10.whatever range is easy to remember. Example 10.1.1.1, 10.1.1.2, 10.1.1.3. Use a subnet address of 255.0.0.0 on all of the boxes on this network. Of course, make sure your workgroup name is the same on all PC's. Configure the DNS Servers in the TCP/IP properties as well--DNS Server addresses should be provided by your ISP. If you get a Linksys router go back and change the IP address to dynamic (DHCP), as the Linksys will automatically configure all of the necessary settings for you... Once you have them configured, use the "ping" utility from the command prompt to test connectivity. Example, ping 10.1.1.2. It should give you 4 replies if everything is kicking

Jan 31, 2003, 02:15 PM	Thread Starter #15
digitalwanderer Colour Commentator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Highland, IN USA Posts: 5,619 Rep Power: 0	Err, uhm... Ok, I'll try it. Thanks. __________________ WTF is up with the sigs?