Is my SATA drive dead?

LHC · Aug 31, 2006, 08:58 PM

Both of my IDEs are Western Digital lol

I've only had this drive 3 months, so it isn't a long shot that they'll be the same if Seagate sends me one

CDsDontBurn · Aug 31, 2006, 09:08 PM

if they do send you a new one, and the one you have is discontinued for whatever reason (which it might be seeing that alot of vendors don't have it in stock), they might send you the same drive w/the 16Mb buffer

.....but it's only a possibility.....you won't know until you actually get the new drive

LHC · Aug 31, 2006, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDsDontBurn

if they do send you a new one, and the one you have is discontinued for whatever reason (which it might be seeing that alot of vendors don't have it in stock)

Which makes it seem more likely that it'll be the same revision and firmware

H3X4D3C1M4L · Sep 2, 2006, 04:29 AM

Well let us know how it goes and post pics of the process!

LHC · Sep 2, 2006, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H3X4D3C1M4L

Well let us know how it goes and post pics of the process!

Will do

New drive should be here sometime next week, except it sucks that school starts up Wednesday

Tipstaff · Sep 2, 2006, 07:19 AM

Believe me on this one, CDs, drive freezing isn't a myth. It does work, just not for every type of drive failure (especially not in this case). As a matter of fact drive freezing is actually a recommend procedure in every A+ technical book.

This "procedure", if you will, mainly works with drives where the platter and the read head/s are touching or get stuck together, where the drives bearings are wearing out, or where the drive makes a clunking sound (which is usually due to the read head not being able to read off the platter, moving beyond it, and hitting the inside casing). By freezing the drive you cause the metal parts to shink, sometimes just enough to unstick the platter/s from the read head/s, or in the case of the bearings, making them smaller, just enough to get the platters rotating. For read head failure the platters will be cold enough that sometimes the trouble spot on the platter will be less of a problem, and it can be just enough for the read head to read off of the platter.

Only problem is that in almost every case this is only a temporary solution.. sometimes working 20 mins or so. But 20 mins is better than nothing.

LHC · Sep 2, 2006, 07:24 AM

Just wondering for future reference, how long should a drive be put in a freezer? I've heard things ranging from 30 minutes to overnight..

CDsDontBurn · Sep 2, 2006, 08:20 AM

@ Tipstaff: the guy i used to work for did the whole freezing of the drive. up until then, i had only heard about the procedure, but not actually tried it. One day, a client's machine would't boot into windows and it was because the HDD was making a grinding/clunking noise like you described. We took the drive to the office and put it in the freezer overnight. at that point, i was still skeptical. Well, the next day we took the drive out and put it in a machine to try and extract the data. when we fired up the machine, the only thing that happened was make the drive sound worse and have condensation build-up. After about 30min. of trying, we just gave up on the drive because we didn't want to damage any of the internal components any more than they already were, just in case the client wanted to take the drive to a data recovery place.

though.....the weird thing about that particular drive.....is that now it's working fine in my gf's machine as her OS drive

.

Tipstaff · Sep 2, 2006, 08:55 AM

Yeah, anything can happen.

As for the best way to do this, I usually stick the drive in an anti-static bag within a ziplock bag, and leave the drive in the freezer for a good 24hours. Sometimes it works.. most times it doesn't, but the key is that "sometimes it works". Even then you may only get it to work for a few to 20 mins. As such, time is essential, and I find that the best way to get as much time out of the drive as possible is to use an external hard drive case. Hook the drive up to the case, plug it in, power it up, and if it works, save, save, save as much as you can before it dies.

CDsDontBurn · Sep 2, 2006, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tipstaff

Yeah, anything can happen.

As for the best way to do this, I usually stick the drive in an anti-static bag within a ziplock bag, and leave the drive in the freezer for a good 24hours. Sometimes it works.. most times it doesn't, but the key is that "sometimes it works". Even then you may only get it to work for a few to 20 mins. As such, time is essential, and I find that the best way to get as much time out of the drive as possible is to use an external hard drive case. Hook the drive up to the case, plug it in, power it up, and if it works, save, save, save as much as you can before it dies.

Well, i guess i'll have to give that a try whenever i come upon my next dead/dying HDD

.

Tipstaff · Sep 2, 2006, 10:17 AM

This works too sometimes, but it's definatly a last resort deal ('course, depending on your mood it could also be a first resort kinda deal too):

Seriously. It works.. sometimes. A good wack to the side of a drive can loosen up the platters, or reset/unstick the read armature.

Plus it feels really damn good wacking the crap outta the drive. The fact that it's made of rubber just means it won't leave any marks on the casing when you decide to send the drive back for warranty.

CDsDontBurn · Sep 2, 2006, 10:20 AM

hahahahah.......that one is great! i gotta try that one too!

H3X4D3C1M4L · Sep 4, 2006, 03:23 AM

Hammers work wondered. Someone should adapt the Cannibal Corpse song "Hammer Smashed Face" to "Hammer Smashed Drive"

LHC · Sep 8, 2006, 09:29 PM

Grr, UPS needed a signature and nobody was home at the time

That was on Wednesday, and they were supposed to try again on Thursday but nobody came

So the today is the final delivery attempt, so they better make an attempt! Or else I'll have to go to the UPS store and pick it up or something

Silly, silly UPS

H3X4D3C1M4L · Sep 8, 2006, 09:50 PM

Make them deliver it when you're home... hell you payed for delivery you'd better get it!

I try and stay home when I'm expecting a shipment

I just go into work late because I was at the doctors or something

LHC · Sep 8, 2006, 11:15 PM

Well that just figures! Apparently me neighbor has it, who isn't home and won't be home for another hour. BUT, I got called into work tonight because I'm the only person who can work, and I'm working until closing

I gotta go soon, and the manager is picking me up

Grr!

CDsDontBurn · Sep 9, 2006, 01:40 AM

burned! that sux bro!

well, just hope that your neighbor person doesn't tamper w/the package

LHC · Sep 9, 2006, 04:26 PM

Well, firmware is different on them. My old one is 3.AAE whereas the new one is 3.AAH (is that even a different firmware?)

If it is a different firmware, is it possible to flash hard drives?

CDsDontBurn · Sep 9, 2006, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LHC

If it is a different firmware, is it possible to flash hard drives?

you've got me on that one. i'd still try it though and see if it works.

LHC · Sep 9, 2006, 09:47 PM

Well I tried it, and it didn't work

When I turn my computer on with the drive connected, it hangs for a good 20 seconds or so when it says "Detecting drives..." It goes instantly without the drive being connected.

So the BIOS tries to recognize it for a while, but in the end it just can't do it (firmware difference I'd bet)

Any suggestions?

CDsDontBurn · Sep 9, 2006, 10:41 PM

well, it was worth a shot =\

try ebay?

but hey, at least you got a new drive, and as soon as your old drive comes back from RMA, you'll have double the capacity you had

.

LHC · Sep 9, 2006, 10:46 PM

No, I did an advanced replacement thing, where they send the new drive before I send them back the bad one. So before the 31st I have to send back the dead drive. If I don't send the drive back in time they charge the credit card for a full drive

CDsDontBurn · Sep 9, 2006, 10:52 PM

gotcha.....bummer that all your data is still on the drive though =\.

LHC · Sep 9, 2006, 11:15 PM

Maybe, as a long shot, I'll call Seagate back and ask if they could possibly send a drive with the same firmware

Or ask if they could at least replace the PCB or something, tell them it burnt, and just send back the replacement drive as well

Tipstaff · Sep 10, 2006, 02:39 AM

Couple things:

At the moment you are using IDE drives to run the system, right? And have you tried any other SATA drives? It's possible that the SATA portion of the controller is screwed, the connectors on the board are messed up, or the BIOS portion that controls SATA functions is not setup right or screwed. One thing you can try is to reflash or update your bios to see if that corrects things.

Also, how are you hooking up the drives to the PSU? Are you using the same power connectors that you used for the old drive? If so, you may want to try another power connector, or get yourself a molex to sata power cable. Even if the drive is getting power from the current sata power connectors it could be that it's not getting enough, or none at all. Doing it this way will let you power the drive from a different power rail than the one the original sata power connectors are on.

CDsDontBurn · Sep 10, 2006, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tipstaff

Couple things:

At the moment you are using IDE drives to run the system, right? And have you tried any other SATA drives? It's possible that the SATA portion of the controller is screwed, the connectors on the board are messed up, or the BIOS portion that controls SATA functions is not setup right or screwed. One thing you can try is to reflash or update your bios to see if that corrects things.

Also, how are you hooking up the drives to the PSU? Are you using the same power connectors that you used for the old drive? If so, you may want to try another power connector, or get yourself a molex to sata power cable. Even if the drive is getting power from the current sata power connectors it could be that it's not getting enough, or none at all. Doing it this way will let you power the drive from a different power rail than the one the original sata power connectors are on.

if you go a page or two back in this thread, you'll see that the old HDD became fried on one of the chips of the PCB part of the HDD.

LHC · Sep 10, 2006, 04:16 PM

And the new drive works just fine, it's in right now and working perfectly

So since I dont have to send the drive back for a week or two, tomorrow I'm going to call customer support and just see if they could possibly replace it with the same firmware.

Couldn't hurt, right?

CDsDontBurn · Sep 10, 2006, 04:55 PM

ya, it couldn't hurt at all to ask.

Tipstaff · Sep 11, 2006, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDsDontBurn

if you go a page or two back in this thread, you'll see that the old HDD became fried on one of the chips of the PCB part of the HDD.

Yeah, I had seen that, but since he had replaced the drive with a new one I was trying to figure out why it wasn't working. It didn't dawn on me that he was trying to use the PCB from new drive on the old one (which is what you are trying to do, right, LHC?).

BTW, LHC, there may be more damage to the drive than you might think. It could be that the drives motor assembly is burnt out. So, even though the PCB is active, and talking with the computer, the rest of the drive is toast, hence no response.

PangingJr · Sep 11, 2006, 08:34 AM

i don't understand the problem that you're having (haven't yet read whole thread)

but however, if you want to upgrade firmware of your Seagate hard drives, then here is what you can do:
try sending your request/inquiry to DiscSupport@seagate.com
in the email message tell them the reason why you want the hard drives's to have a new firmware revision,
as of my example, i told them that i want to buy more drives to add to my RAID arrays, and i like to have all of them to be identical (all using same firmware revision, since the new drives that i want to buy are now have a newer firmware revision on them.), also you'll want to include in the message the following information of your existing hard drives: model number, serial number and firmware revision number. if you don't they'll ask you for the information at later time anyway.

then if thay don't need any more info from you, and after the request has been approved the Seagate's will reply you...
in my case example it only takes a day or two to get the reply from them.
they used to send me the upgrade firmware files in emails, but things have been changed now.

here is an example of the reply message...

Quote:

Hello,

Below you will find the instructions for redeeming the certificate number and downloading the firmware upgrade.

1. Go to the Certificate Validation URL on Seagate's website at:
http://www.seagate.com/support/certificate.html

2. Enter the certificate number in the field provided on the website and click SUBMIT,

Your certificate number for your download is:
xxxxxxxxxxxx STxxxxxxxxx - LR (Barracuda 7200.9, SATA) v 3AAH
xxxxxxxxxxxx STxxxxxxxxx - LS (Barracuda 7200.9, SATA) v 3AAH
xxxxxxxxxxxx STxxxxxxxxx - LS (Barracuda 7200.9, SATA) v 3AAH
(This code consists of 12 digits so please verify that you are using all characters listed.)

Seagate highly recommends that you do a complete system backup of any data on your hard drive prior to performing a firmware flash to ensure there is no chance of a loss of your data during the process. Seagate is not responsible for any data loss that may occur during or after your firmware upgrade.

***WARNING**************************************** *****************
DO NOT power down the system or the drive during this upgrade process.
If power is lost during a firmware upgrade, the drive will be destroyed.
Wait until all drive LED activity has ceased before powering off the
drive. Your system should come back to the A prompt.
************************************************** ************************

The upgrade process should not take more than 5 minutes per drive.

The down load contains a text document with a SATAREADME.TXT with in the zip file.

Please make sure the drives do in fact have 3.AAE before updating to 3.AAH

Regards,

i have many Barracuda 7200.9 drives that i like to have the upgrade firmware on them,
the process takes me a whole day to have all of them done, but it needs to be like that, since you can only do it one at a time.

if you want to upgrade the firmware of your barracudas's and you already have the upgrade firmware files from Seagate,
it's in fact pretty simple and easy to do it, however if you're not sure or want to be sure on what to do, then i can help with the instruction.

Aug 31, 2006, 08:58 PM	Thread Starter #31
LHC Stingy and Stubborn Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,325 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Both of my IDEs are Western Digital lol I've only had this drive 3 months, so it isn't a long shot that they'll be the same if Seagate sends me one __________________

Aug 31, 2006, 09:08 PM	#32
CDsDontBurn 127.0.0.1 Join Date: May 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 22,458 Rep Power: 202 System Specs	if they do send you a new one, and the one you have is discontinued for whatever reason (which it might be seeing that alot of vendors don't have it in stock), they might send you the same drive w/the 16Mb buffer .....but it's only a possibility.....you won't know until you actually get the new drive __________________ Her First Day \| A year later

Sep 2, 2006, 07:19 AM	#36
Tipstaff HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Real capital of Canada: Torauna Posts: 6,658 Rep Power: 187 System Specs	Believe me on this one, CDs, drive freezing isn't a myth. It does work, just not for every type of drive failure (especially not in this case). As a matter of fact drive freezing is actually a recommend procedure in every A+ technical book. This "procedure", if you will, mainly works with drives where the platter and the read head/s are touching or get stuck together, where the drives bearings are wearing out, or where the drive makes a clunking sound (which is usually due to the read head not being able to read off the platter, moving beyond it, and hitting the inside casing). By freezing the drive you cause the metal parts to shink, sometimes just enough to unstick the platter/s from the read head/s, or in the case of the bearings, making them smaller, just enough to get the platters rotating. For read head failure the platters will be cold enough that sometimes the trouble spot on the platter will be less of a problem, and it can be just enough for the read head to read off of the platter. Only problem is that in almost every case this is only a temporary solution.. sometimes working 20 mins or so. But 20 mins is better than nothing. __________________ Portal: The Flash Version _________________________________ Brain: So, you sacked the cocky khaki Kicky Sack sock plucker? Mr. Sackett: The second cocky khaki Kicky Sack sock plucker I've sacked since the sixth sitting sheet slitter got sick.

Sep 2, 2006, 07:24 AM	Thread Starter #37
LHC Stingy and Stubborn Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,325 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Just wondering for future reference, how long should a drive be put in a freezer? I've heard things ranging from 30 minutes to overnight.. __________________

Sep 2, 2006, 08:20 AM	#38
CDsDontBurn 127.0.0.1 Join Date: May 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 22,458 Rep Power: 202 System Specs	@ Tipstaff: the guy i used to work for did the whole freezing of the drive. up until then, i had only heard about the procedure, but not actually tried it. One day, a client's machine would't boot into windows and it was because the HDD was making a grinding/clunking noise like you described. We took the drive to the office and put it in the freezer overnight. at that point, i was still skeptical. Well, the next day we took the drive out and put it in a machine to try and extract the data. when we fired up the machine, the only thing that happened was make the drive sound worse and have condensation build-up. After about 30min. of trying, we just gave up on the drive because we didn't want to damage any of the internal components any more than they already were, just in case the client wanted to take the drive to a data recovery place. though.....the weird thing about that particular drive.....is that now it's working fine in my gf's machine as her OS drive . __________________ Her First Day \| A year later

Sep 2, 2006, 04:29 AM	#34
H3X4D3C1M4L DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,794 Rep Power: 0	Well let us know how it goes and post pics of the process!

Sep 2, 2006, 08:55 AM	#39
Tipstaff HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Real capital of Canada: Torauna Posts: 6,658 Rep Power: 187 System Specs	Yeah, anything can happen. As for the best way to do this, I usually stick the drive in an anti-static bag within a ziplock bag, and leave the drive in the freezer for a good 24hours. Sometimes it works.. most times it doesn't, but the key is that "sometimes it works". Even then you may only get it to work for a few to 20 mins. As such, time is essential, and I find that the best way to get as much time out of the drive as possible is to use an external hard drive case. Hook the drive up to the case, plug it in, power it up, and if it works, save, save, save as much as you can before it dies. __________________ Portal: The Flash Version _________________________________ Brain: So, you sacked the cocky khaki Kicky Sack sock plucker? Mr. Sackett: The second cocky khaki Kicky Sack sock plucker I've sacked since the sixth sitting sheet slitter got sick.

Sep 2, 2006, 10:17 AM	#41
Tipstaff HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Real capital of Canada: Torauna Posts: 6,658 Rep Power: 187 System Specs	This works too sometimes, but it's definatly a last resort deal ('course, depending on your mood it could also be a first resort kinda deal too): Seriously. It works.. sometimes. A good wack to the side of a drive can loosen up the platters, or reset/unstick the read armature. Plus it feels really damn good wacking the crap outta the drive. The fact that it's made of rubber just means it won't leave any marks on the casing when you decide to send the drive back for warranty. __________________ Portal: The Flash Version _________________________________ Brain: So, you sacked the cocky khaki Kicky Sack sock plucker? Mr. Sackett: The second cocky khaki Kicky Sack sock plucker I've sacked since the sixth sitting sheet slitter got sick.

Sep 2, 2006, 10:20 AM	#42
CDsDontBurn 127.0.0.1 Join Date: May 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 22,458 Rep Power: 202 System Specs	hahahahah.......that one is great! i gotta try that one too! __________________ Her First Day \| A year later

Sep 4, 2006, 03:23 AM	#43
H3X4D3C1M4L DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,794 Rep Power: 0	Hammers work wondered. Someone should adapt the Cannibal Corpse song "Hammer Smashed Face" to "Hammer Smashed Drive"

Sep 8, 2006, 09:29 PM	Thread Starter #44
LHC Stingy and Stubborn Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,325 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Grr, UPS needed a signature and nobody was home at the time That was on Wednesday, and they were supposed to try again on Thursday but nobody came So the today is the final delivery attempt, so they better make an attempt! Or else I'll have to go to the UPS store and pick it up or something Silly, silly UPS __________________

Sep 8, 2006, 09:50 PM	#45
H3X4D3C1M4L DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,794 Rep Power: 0	Make them deliver it when you're home... hell you payed for delivery you'd better get it! I try and stay home when I'm expecting a shipment I just go into work late because I was at the doctors or something

Sep 8, 2006, 11:15 PM	Thread Starter #46
LHC Stingy and Stubborn Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,325 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Well that just figures! Apparently me neighbor has it, who isn't home and won't be home for another hour. BUT, I got called into work tonight because I'm the only person who can work, and I'm working until closing I gotta go soon, and the manager is picking me up Grr! __________________

Sep 9, 2006, 01:40 AM	#47
CDsDontBurn 127.0.0.1 Join Date: May 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 22,458 Rep Power: 202 System Specs	burned! that sux bro! well, just hope that your neighbor person doesn't tamper w/the package __________________ Her First Day \| A year later

Sep 9, 2006, 04:26 PM	Thread Starter #48
LHC Stingy and Stubborn Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,325 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Well, firmware is different on them. My old one is 3.AAE whereas the new one is 3.AAH (is that even a different firmware?) If it is a different firmware, is it possible to flash hard drives? __________________

Sep 9, 2006, 09:47 PM	Thread Starter #50
LHC Stingy and Stubborn Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,325 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Well I tried it, and it didn't work When I turn my computer on with the drive connected, it hangs for a good 20 seconds or so when it says "Detecting drives..." It goes instantly without the drive being connected. So the BIOS tries to recognize it for a while, but in the end it just can't do it (firmware difference I'd bet) Any suggestions? __________________

Sep 9, 2006, 10:41 PM	#51
CDsDontBurn 127.0.0.1 Join Date: May 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 22,458 Rep Power: 202 System Specs	well, it was worth a shot =\ try ebay? but hey, at least you got a new drive, and as soon as your old drive comes back from RMA, you'll have double the capacity you had . __________________ Her First Day \| A year later

Sep 9, 2006, 10:46 PM	Thread Starter #52
LHC Stingy and Stubborn Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,325 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	No, I did an advanced replacement thing, where they send the new drive before I send them back the bad one. So before the 31st I have to send back the dead drive. If I don't send the drive back in time they charge the credit card for a full drive __________________

Sep 9, 2006, 10:52 PM	#53
CDsDontBurn 127.0.0.1 Join Date: May 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 22,458 Rep Power: 202 System Specs	gotcha.....bummer that all your data is still on the drive though =\. __________________ Her First Day \| A year later

Sep 9, 2006, 11:15 PM	Thread Starter #54
LHC Stingy and Stubborn Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,325 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	Maybe, as a long shot, I'll call Seagate back and ask if they could possibly send a drive with the same firmware Or ask if they could at least replace the PCB or something, tell them it burnt, and just send back the replacement drive as well __________________

Sep 10, 2006, 02:39 AM	#55
Tipstaff HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Real capital of Canada: Torauna Posts: 6,658 Rep Power: 187 System Specs	Couple things: At the moment you are using IDE drives to run the system, right? And have you tried any other SATA drives? It's possible that the SATA portion of the controller is screwed, the connectors on the board are messed up, or the BIOS portion that controls SATA functions is not setup right or screwed. One thing you can try is to reflash or update your bios to see if that corrects things. Also, how are you hooking up the drives to the PSU? Are you using the same power connectors that you used for the old drive? If so, you may want to try another power connector, or get yourself a molex to sata power cable. Even if the drive is getting power from the current sata power connectors it could be that it's not getting enough, or none at all. Doing it this way will let you power the drive from a different power rail than the one the original sata power connectors are on. __________________ Portal: The Flash Version _________________________________ Brain: So, you sacked the cocky khaki Kicky Sack sock plucker? Mr. Sackett: The second cocky khaki Kicky Sack sock plucker I've sacked since the sixth sitting sheet slitter got sick.

Sep 10, 2006, 04:16 PM	Thread Starter #57
LHC Stingy and Stubborn Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,325 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	And the new drive works just fine, it's in right now and working perfectly So since I dont have to send the drive back for a week or two, tomorrow I'm going to call customer support and just see if they could possibly replace it with the same firmware. Couldn't hurt, right? __________________

Sep 10, 2006, 04:55 PM	#58
CDsDontBurn 127.0.0.1 Join Date: May 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 22,458 Rep Power: 202 System Specs	ya, it couldn't hurt at all to ask. __________________ Her First Day \| A year later