digitalwanderer

Ok, first off some stats:

XP2200+
1 x 256mb PC2100 Generic DDR
KX7-333R motherboard with all orignal parts and disc's
SK-6 CPU solid copper kooler and 1 case fan installed
generic mid tower case with 400watt PSU with 2 front USB ports
48x12x48 lite-on burner
16x Sony DVD drive
GF4ti4200 64mb DDR 3.5ns Leadtek all cables and stuff
80gig maxtor ata133 7200 RPM drive 2mb cache
10/100 nic card
sound blaster live 5.1 sound card
new keyboard and mouse

Mmmmmmmm....a nice start, eh? It gets better. The thing came clean as a whistle and solid, and it ain't half-way bad looking. (It's a sharp looking case rather than a tacky-cheap looking one, I approve) It came with win2K nicely installed, but I wiped the drive for luck and am half-way thru setting up a dual 98se/XP boot on it. I got the 98se installed & tweaked in, and had to take a break to start loading it up and playing with it.

It plays well, VERY well.

I haven't done any hardware modifications yet, but I did clock the card from about 250/520 to 300/600 and it seems to like it just fine. (Yes, I just picked some round numbers and they worked...I was in a hurry. ) I don't THINK I have the CPU overclocked right now...I played around with it just a bit but decided not to worry about it yet, it don't seem to be needing for horsepower in that department yet.

So here's the things I DON'T get:

SoF & GTA3 run great, better than Bubbles can do it...which I kind of expected. Bubbles gets about 7K onions and Vladd (yes, I've already named the new rig "Vladd" ) gets 10K without breaking a sweat right now.

What surprised me was Mafia and Unreal2....those are bugging me.

Unreal2 is dogging, I mean DOGGING it in firefights. The FPS dips into the mid-teens and I just don't find that acceptable....Bubbles plays a MUCH better game of U2 than Vladd which doesn't make sense to me!

Mafia is sort of the opposite, Vladd is playing it so well it's scary! I'm not sure on FPS since I haven't bothered with fraps yet, (did I mention I'm only half-way thru building this thing and just on a "screw-around-with-it-for-a-bit break right now? ), but it was really smooth. So I enabled 4xAA 4xAF and it's STILL really smooth.

Hey, with those settings it was still jerky on Bubbles with the 9500 Pro in her.

So it's stronger in some areas and weaker in a few others. I want to say the U2 problem is just the 256Mb of RAM in this thing...but methought 256MB was enough for most stuff in 98se, and it's been a while since I've been on anything with less than 512Mb. (It's the one area me friend is skimping in a little bit for right now to save $, but it's still a pretty good deal for $525us shipped. )

I might just tell him not to play U2 'til he gets another ram stick, but I don't know...

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kinetic

I wouldn't expect a huge drop in framerate on UT 2 with that set up Dig although, as you say, another stick of ram wouldn't do any harm. What drivers are you using for the GF4?

digitalwanderer

43.00 9x

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Madgoat1979

If you enable v-sync your fps should leval out...



I found with 256 ... (And my ti 4200) that if I kept it enabled most games would play ok, (without CRAZY drops in FPS)

BUT, if you have v-sync DISABLED.... then your comp is cacheing a lot more.... so your ram is filling up.


(I had to play with that ALOT before I got my other stick of 256...)


Peace

MG

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Zardon

unreal 2 also caches in system memory.

Malus

Windows 98 has horrible memory management. . .

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quad (FreeBSD/amd64 8-CURRENT): Intel Q6600 - Asus P5E-VM HDMI - 2x2 GB Kingston PC6400 DDR2 Ram - Seagate 320GB 7200RPM HD - 2xSeagate 1TB 7200RPM HD in RAID 1 via ZFS - Lite-On 20x DVD Multi Recorder - Coolermaster Centurion 5

router (FreeBSD/amd64 8-CURRENT): Intel E4500 - Intel D945GCNL - 2 GB PC6400 Mushkin Ram - Lite-On 48x24x48x16 - Seagate 320GB 7200RPM HD - Silverstone SST-SG02-F

wanderer (FreeBSD/i386 7-CURRENT): Lenovo Thinkpad T61p

mini (OS X 10.5): Intel Core 2 Duo @ 1.8Ghz, 4 GB Mushkin PC5400 Ram - Headroom MicroDAC

Portable sound: Rockboxed iPod Video -> Westone UM2's
Not-So-Portable Sound: Headroon MicroDAC -> Singlepower PPX3-SLAM -> Grado RS-1's or Beyerdynamic DT-880's
Very-Not-Portable-Sound: Squeezebox v3 -> Denon AVR-1507 -> B&W 683's & Sunfire HRS-10

ToshiroOC

Digi! The bluebirdything! NOOOOOO! Sounds like a great computer, though perhaps the UT2 thing is because of a driver glitch? Have you tried other drivers on the rig to see if that would help the UT2 framerate?

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[color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color]
Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

BWX

I have tried ALL drivers with my 4200 and 256 mb of ram, and I have seen some weird slowdowns in some games (only single player though?) But when I go back to the 41.09's most of those weird slowdown glitches go away. I'm using the 42.82's now, and they play SOF2 multiplayer better than any other driver on my system, but single player RTCW has some weird glitches, slowdown in spots w/ them. Of course this is all on an XP pro machine- but for the hell of it you might want to try the 41.09's and just see if they work any better for the problem areas. This is on a 64mb ti4200 @300/600 also.

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No_Style

Nice Avatar Digital

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-={420}=-

The question burning in my mind right now is...WHY WINDOWS 98? Windows 98 is nothing but a browser stapled onto a graphical OS duct-taped onto an ancient character-based DOS with roots in the '70s. Hehe

EDIT:

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BWX

Look at my 3dmark score at the bottom- It is with win98se. I can't get within 500 points of that most of the time- and I've disabled all the services and done a bunch of other tweeks to my system to try. I even o/c'ed it way faster until it wouldn't even run the test and locked up and O/C'ed mt video card way higher than I should have. I also tried every other driver I could get my hands on and I think the highest I ever got was 11,200 or something, and that was on a really cold day. With all the planets lined up just right.

I could get almost 11,500 all day everyday with win98 and my games all ran smoother too. I got XP pro working pretty good, but not like 98se for games. win98se has it's high points. Along with some bad ones of course.

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digitalwanderer

TELL THE MAN, TELL HIM!!!

98se is just better on my rigs for some things...pure & simple it IS! I have XP and am gradually working myself into it, and when I do some massive 5-8 day downloads I always do it from me XP install since it IS more stable...but if I want to have the best gaming experience I can have I use 98se 'cause it works best for me.

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WTF is up with the sigs?

-={420}=-

I don't know. I couldn't go back to win98. There are just so many things wrong with it. I do agree that it runs SOME games smoother but most of the new games out there are optimized for windows xp. And there's just so many more things you can do, so many more options/features in winxp that win98 just cant compete with. Windows XP isn't the best...in some cases I would even say I hate it...I hope Microsoft releases a better OS (longhorn) so it's more stable and faster. I sure hope longhorn won't be a more bloated winxp. I even noticed your signature says "uhh- I'm starting to like this OS better than Win98 in some ways" Yep! Well, let's hope M$ doesn't mess up.

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BWX

Yup 420, it does take a while to get used to XP, but over all I think I like it better. I think I'll like it even more w/ another 256 or even 512mb of ram. 256mb was great for win98se, but to me it's bare minimum for XP. The only thing is, I don't want to go get more pc2100 when I know that I'm going to want some nice corsair (or any other good name brand) low latency pc3200 in the future. So until I upgrade my motherboard, there is no sense in getting more ram.

You can't mix memory like that can you? You have to use the same speed memory in all the slots don't you? If not I may pick up a stick of the new faster stuff. But I have to find out if it works in my motherboard first. I should start a thread about memory compatibilities, because I don't know nearly enough about it.

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merry

Well, actually I think you can, but it will all run at the fastest speed the slowest stick is capable of, that is 2100+3200=2x2100... doesn't seem to make much sense.

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and the ones who say there isn't.
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BWX

Yeah, exactly, so in my situation I might well just take the old ram out completely- BUT- can pc3200 ram run as slow as 266 mhz?? Can I put that kinda ram in a motherboard only capable of running it at 280 or so mhz OC'd? I guess it should work, I just didn't know how SLOW you could run really fast pc3200 or faster memory--
hmmm

-={420}=-

So can u put pc3200 or pc3500 memory in any motherboard that has DDR or only some?

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merry

I don't have any direct experience with DDR (sigh), but it should work - in this respect - much like SDR. I used PC133 in my first rig, on a Celeron@66MHz FSB, so the memory ran at half it's rated speed (and still does after a number of years).

Now if I'm not mistaken, 3200 runs@166MHz (the "physical" clock), which should do OK @133MHz (=266/2). I can't be 100% sure not trying it myself, but I'd give it 99% chances to work.

EDIT: Oops, 3200 runs @200MHz... still should work...

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There is a war between the ones who say there is a war
and the ones who say there isn't.
~~Leonard Cohen

BWX

That makes sense to me. Plus w/ the prices of memory right now, this is a very good time to buy some!

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digitalwanderer

What's the cheapest/best I could get for me friends? It's killing me that it's only 256, it deserves the extra 256 to take it to 512. (I'm falling in love with this rig, damn it! )

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JAV

Hmmm, gonna go out on a limb here > Go to Newegg & look @ SimpleTech 512mb stick of PC-2700 for $58 & $5 shipping. The good: 166/333, CL2.5 & a lifetime guarantee. The bad: I've never used SimpleTech & the name ???. Newegg has the rep if there is a problem tho'.

I honestly wouldn't get PC-2100 to match what is there, that board & CPU *need* 166/333 capable ram to shine. Tell me how high you've gotten the FSB on that 2100 & I may make an offer to offset the cost.

Hang in there > your time will come & I'm keeping my eyes peeled for a better & cheaper rig for you.

HTH,

Ryoko

newer games just need more ram. throw the extra 256 at it and gaming should be fine.
however, if a program needs more than 256mb by itself, win98 just won't cut it.

on the os issue:

*depending on the hardware setup and sheer amount of bootup programs* win98se has been for me much more stable, much faster, and much more tinker friendly than winxp ever has been.

digitalwanderer

Dang it, I have GOT to quit getting emotionally attached to hardware!!!

Me friend is coming by in about 3 hours to pick up/get orientated on his new PC, and I gotta admit that I'm a bit excited as I'm pretty dang proud of the set-up on his rig now. (Hey, it's a schweeeeet rig...it's easy to get it set up well. )

Let's see:

-win98se/winXP dual-boot, both OS custom tweaked to the gills along with user friendly instructions on maintanence & preference changes & such.

-Photoshop6, OfficeXP, Nero5, SmartFTP, Netscape 3.0,

-Half-life, Soldier of Fortune, GTA3, Mafia, Unreal, Nali Pa, Unreal Tournament, UT2k3, Unreal2, Alice, Star Trek: Elite Forces, The Sims, Jedi Knights, Jedi Knights 2, Medal of Honor, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, No One Lives Forever, NOLF2, Rogue Squadron, Red Faction, Blade of Darkness, Oni, MDK2, AlienVPredator2, Max Payne, and DeusEx

-Lots of "linux keyboard drivers"

-LOTR-TTT & Star Trek Enterprise complete first season.

-Bonus goodies, everything I could think of.

I still gotta install SS & SS:SE on her, but all games are full-installs and fully tweaked and configured. (Not to mention running better than they do on my best rig. )

All in all, I'm pretty happy with the finished results. I figure it'll keep him busy for a while.

Did I miss anything?

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UberLord

[size=large][color=red]For the love of god man, get out of the stone-ages !!![/color][/size]

Time to update......

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digitalwanderer

Nah, he's got IE 6 all patched and updated and such...it's what he prefers. I just put Netscape 3.0 on for porn cruising, it's still the best for that.

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-={420}=-

Yeah, if it was up to me I would replace Photoshop6 with Photoshop 7.01, OfficeXP with Office 2003 Beta 2, SmartFTP with CuteFTP Pro, you do have the newest and registered version of Nero on there don't you? If not, I would put that on there 2. Netscape 3??? Porn cruising? Anyone who really knows about porn cruising knows that the real porn ain't on the internet-at least not for free. Yes, there's some free porn websites but I prefer P2P apps for that. So, in my opinion, lose the Netscape. Also, you might want to put Counter-Strike on there for that Half-Life...It's a free download. Other than that, I would add to the Medal of Honor with the Spearhead Expansion Pack. Also, I would add the vice city mod to GTAIII. And you might want to put Splinter Cell on there-great game. linux keyboard drivers? please explain...
Another thing you might wanna do just for fun is try 3Dmark on that new rig.

P.S. I hope I'm not too late!

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WyreTheWolf

The 43.00 Drivers blow!

They run like crap on the Geforce4 line. At least that has been my experiance. Look at installing an OS with better memory management (such as 2K, or XP) and get rid of those drivers....

I have had the best luck with the 41.09 , and the 42.86 (which is what I am using right now.)

Also check the LOD bias... make sure that it is set to blend, if it is set to the highest quality then any smoke or anything like that gets a lot of attention ... which slows down the card quite a bit.

Good luck!

And for the love of all things holy... Drop the Netscape crap... Phoenix Browser is still based on Mozilla, and is very very fast.

By far the best choice for a browser.

BWX

I find the 43.00 and 43.30 drivers to be great on my machine- 43.30 is going to stay for a while. 41.09 and 42.82 also work well on my rig.

Anyway, it would be a shame not to put SOF2 on there for multiplayer online fragging. It has the best-anti lag and anti-latency code ever written for a First-Person-Shooter. Impact prediction is a great thing to level the playing field when 1 guy has a 120 ping on dial up and the other has 50 on cable (that would be me)-

Make sure you turn on digital vibrance and 2x antialiasing and as much anisotropic (8x is nice) as the card can handle in the nVidia driver settings, or at least make sure to tell your friend to experiment w/ them. I won't play a game without at least 2x AA and 8x AF on- and with DV on also, it makes the illusion all the more real.

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