raid?

shuki · Mar 1, 2003, 04:52 PM

I'd like to set up a raid array but I need some of your help in doing so.... My nf7-s should be here Monday and I fly out Tuesday. Once I get back and get a bit of rest I'd like to set up a raid array with my new board. I have at home a 60Gb Maxtor 7200 "J" (quiet) hdd. I now need to buy another hdd and this is where I need some help/input from some of you that know. What should I get? The only other 60G maxtor drives I can find are the standard 60G "L" drives and not the 'J' ones. Wouldn't think that would matter too much but wanted to ask. So a few ?'s

1. For best performance, do I want 2 identical drives?
2. would that "L" model be fine to raid with a "j" model? both maxtor 60Gb drives
3. Should I just get two new matching 120G drives and keep the 60 as a slave mass storage drive or server?
4. How would buying one 120G drive and putting it in raid with my 60G drive perform compared to two same size hdd's?

more questions to come as I think of them

And thank you for any input!

DriveEuro · Mar 1, 2003, 10:03 PM

1. Two identical (model #) drives. 2. dunno. 3. depends on if you are mirroring or striping. Personally I always like to have a lot of space to store. If you mirror then you'll have just 120gb.... If you stripe I believe you get 240gb.....right? 4. The raid setup would be better. But do you really need to spend all that money on less than 25% in performance?

ToshiroOC · Mar 1, 2003, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shuki
I'd like to set up a raid array but I need some of your help in doing so.... My nf7-s should be here Monday and I fly out Tuesday. Once I get back and get a bit of rest I'd like to set up a raid array with my new board. I have at home a 60Gb Maxtor 7200 "J" (quiet) hdd. I now need to buy another hdd and this is where I need some help/input from some of you that know. What should I get? The only other 60G maxtor drives I can find are the standard 60G "L" drives and not the 'J' ones. Wouldn't think that would matter too much but wanted to ask. So a few ?'s

1. For best performance, do I want 2 identical drives?
2. would that "L" model be fine to raid with a "j" model? both maxtor 60Gb drives
3. Should I just get two new matching 120G drives and keep the 60 as a slave mass storage drive or server?
4. How would buying one 120G drive and putting it in raid with my 60G drive perform compared to two same size hdd's?

more questions to come as I think of them And thank you for any input!

1. Yes, you do.
2. It's just a difference in which bearing the drives use, so it should be ok.
3. If you feel you need that much space.
4. It would perform worse in all aspects. The smallest drive becomes the weak link there, so your RAID would see two 60gb drives instead of a 60 and a 120, since the RAID partitions need to all be the same size across all drives... and since the drives will be different, they won't be synced and so data transfers won't be as good...

DriveEuro · Mar 1, 2003, 10:15 PM

I didn't read shukis #4 close enough. Yeah. Well, the array will only run as fast as the slowest drive. Example. 40GB 5400rpm and 40gb 7200rpm. The array will only work as fast as the 5400rpm. That would work horribly.

shuki · Mar 1, 2003, 10:21 PM

well I do NOT need anymore space but do want as fast performance as possible. Therefore I considered going with a RAID setup since I will own my first mobo that supports it shortly. Again, for me its not that huge amount of disk space I'm going for so much as the faster read/write times to the hdds. Really sounds like more trouble than its worth though. I would run striped and then if one drive craps out there it all goes (which is really suck E) I thought setting up a RAID array would like double my read/write speed but if thats not the case, I think I'll just pick me up a 2MB cache 120 for $100 bucks or so and just use the 60 as a slave/file hosting backup drive....

thanks for the input guys. anyone else care to share?

ToshiroOC · Mar 1, 2003, 10:25 PM

It would go slower than the 5400rpm one, since there would be a delay between when the 5400rpm one had the data available and when the 7200rpm one had the data available (which would take less time than the 5400, but still...), so it would be 5400 speed minus a bit...

shuki · Mar 1, 2003, 10:27 PM

also not so sure how RAID arrays like 200ish fsbs..... /me better stick with what he knows and stay single drive in UDMA6 mode.... can not wait to get back home....

DriveEuro · Mar 1, 2003, 10:29 PM

Shuki, go striped. With the 120s. And do as you said. Use the 60 for file sharing and all that other stuff. So if you happened to lose one of the drives you would just lose system files, OS, and games. That stuff can be reinstalled in less than 3 hours.

shuki · Mar 1, 2003, 10:33 PM

I just wonder what the speed increase would be. Not in benchmark numbers necessarily but in real time "I can tell this is really a lot faster" sense. Really, how much faster would my rig be setting up 2x120 RAID array vs. a single 120 partitioned to 20 for OS/apps and 100 for file sharing running in UDMA mode 6? anyone made the upgrade recently and care to share?

all in all, a 240Gb RAID 0 array for $200 wouldn't be bad but if the performance isn't there, I'll put the $$'s elsewhere....

DriveEuro · Mar 1, 2003, 10:38 PM

are the 120s 8mb or 2mb cache?

shuki · Mar 1, 2003, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DriveEuro
are the 120s 8mb or 2mb cache?

2mb cache. I can get them both for the cost of one 8mb cache

also, nice chart here showing some numbers. The tranfer rate in MB/sec caught my attn. 41.8 in single disk UDMA 6 and 57.7 setup in RAID 0 About a 40% increase which would be nice enough for me to drop the $200 on it. Though I still have no clue what I will do with 240Gb worth of hdd space....

edit - or I may just wait for the WD raptor SATA to come out

ToshiroOC · Mar 1, 2003, 11:34 PM

Don't forget shuki that this is only for sequential transfers - if you access thousands of little files, this won't be any faster than JBOD...

shuki · Mar 2, 2003, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shuki
Though I still have no clue what I will do with 240Gb worth of hdd space....

wonder if sinjin has any ideas....

think I've settled on one 120Gb drive for now. I really enjoy my OCing and somehow I just don't see this RAID stuff cooperating up around 12x200. Suppose it'll be plenty fast as it is....

Matth · Mar 2, 2003, 04:44 PM

If the software handles it right, a mirrored pair gives you not only reliability (proof against a drive failure) but improves dispersed read performance if the software spreads them intelligently (usually, biasing one high, one low)

For scattered reads under striping, a stripe size larger than the typical I/O size is appropriate, while for sequential performance, a stripe size smaller than the typical I/O is better.

Is it a SATA raid on that board?
One test showed that true SATA drives gained far more from RAID than a pair of ATA drives on SATA converters - sounds like it may be a latency issue from the converters?

DriveEuro · Mar 2, 2003, 05:20 PM

SATA, yeah, Shuki....You are in the money.... Your shit is gonna fly! I actually got my other 40gb drive today... So I'll be going raid today also.

Mar 1, 2003, 04:52 PM	#1
shuki DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: in the hidden place Posts: 1,975 Rep Power: 0	raid? I'd like to set up a raid array but I need some of your help in doing so.... My nf7-s should be here Monday and I fly out Tuesday. Once I get back and get a bit of rest I'd like to set up a raid array with my new board. I have at home a 60Gb Maxtor 7200 "J" (quiet) hdd. I now need to buy another hdd and this is where I need some help/input from some of you that know. What should I get? The only other 60G maxtor drives I can find are the standard 60G "L" drives and not the 'J' ones. Wouldn't think that would matter too much but wanted to ask. So a few ?'s 1. For best performance, do I want 2 identical drives? 2. would that "L" model be fine to raid with a "j" model? both maxtor 60Gb drives 3. Should I just get two new matching 120G drives and keep the 60 as a slave mass storage drive or server? 4. How would buying one 120G drive and putting it in raid with my 60G drive perform compared to two same size hdd's? more questions to come as I think of them And thank you for any input!

Mar 1, 2003, 10:03 PM	#2
DriveEuro HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Gurnee Illinois Posts: 4,677 Rep Power: 0	1. Two identical (model #) drives. 2. dunno. 3. depends on if you are mirroring or striping. Personally I always like to have a lot of space to store. If you mirror then you'll have just 120gb.... If you stripe I believe you get 240gb.....right? 4. The raid setup would be better. But do you really need to spend all that money on less than 25% in performance? __________________ [color=orange]ASUS P4P800 Deluxe [color=black]-[/color] 2.4C --> 3300mhz [color=black]-[/color] Mushkin PC3200 at 220 5-2-2-2 (cpu limited) [color=black]-[/color] BBAti 9800Pro at 430/375 [/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]01[/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]03[/color] 16001200 12801024

Mar 1, 2003, 10:25 PM	#6
ToshiroOC Unbiased. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,812 Rep Power: 0	It would go slower than the 5400rpm one, since there would be a delay between when the 5400rpm one had the data available and when the 7200rpm one had the data available (which would take less time than the 5400, but still...), so it would be 5400 speed minus a bit... __________________ [img][/img] [color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color] Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

Mar 1, 2003, 10:29 PM	#8
DriveEuro HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Gurnee Illinois Posts: 4,677 Rep Power: 0	Shuki, go striped. With the 120s. And do as you said. Use the 60 for file sharing and all that other stuff. So if you happened to lose one of the drives you would just lose system files, OS, and games. That stuff can be reinstalled in less than 3 hours. __________________ [color=orange]ASUS P4P800 Deluxe [color=black]-[/color] 2.4C --> 3300mhz [color=black]-[/color] Mushkin PC3200 at 220 5-2-2-2 (cpu limited) [color=black]-[/color] BBAti 9800Pro at 430/375 [/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]01[/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]03[/color] 16001200 12801024

Mar 1, 2003, 10:38 PM	#10
DriveEuro HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Gurnee Illinois Posts: 4,677 Rep Power: 0	are the 120s 8mb or 2mb cache? __________________ [color=orange]ASUS P4P800 Deluxe [color=black]-[/color] 2.4C --> 3300mhz [color=black]-[/color] Mushkin PC3200 at 220 5-2-2-2 (cpu limited) [color=black]-[/color] BBAti 9800Pro at 430/375 [/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]01[/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]03[/color] 16001200 12801024

Mar 1, 2003, 10:15 PM	#4
DriveEuro HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Gurnee Illinois Posts: 4,677 Rep Power: 0	I didn't read shukis #4 close enough. Yeah. Well, the array will only run as fast as the slowest drive. Example. 40GB 5400rpm and 40gb 7200rpm. The array will only work as fast as the 5400rpm. That would work horribly. __________________ [color=orange]ASUS P4P800 Deluxe [color=black]-[/color] 2.4C --> 3300mhz [color=black]-[/color] Mushkin PC3200 at 220 5-2-2-2 (cpu limited) [color=black]-[/color] BBAti 9800Pro at 430/375 [/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]01[/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]03[/color] 16001200 12801024

Mar 1, 2003, 10:21 PM	Thread Starter #5
shuki DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: in the hidden place Posts: 1,975 Rep Power: 0	well I do NOT need anymore space but do want as fast performance as possible. Therefore I considered going with a RAID setup since I will own my first mobo that supports it shortly. Again, for me its not that huge amount of disk space I'm going for so much as the faster read/write times to the hdds. Really sounds like more trouble than its worth though. I would run striped and then if one drive craps out there it all goes (which is really suck E) I thought setting up a RAID array would like double my read/write speed but if thats not the case, I think I'll just pick me up a 2MB cache 120 for $100 bucks or so and just use the 60 as a slave/file hosting backup drive.... thanks for the input guys. anyone else care to share?

Mar 1, 2003, 10:27 PM	Thread Starter #7
shuki DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: in the hidden place Posts: 1,975 Rep Power: 0	also not so sure how RAID arrays like 200ish fsbs..... /me better stick with what he knows and stay single drive in UDMA6 mode.... can not wait to get back home....

Mar 1, 2003, 10:33 PM	Thread Starter #9
shuki DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: in the hidden place Posts: 1,975 Rep Power: 0	I just wonder what the speed increase would be. Not in benchmark numbers necessarily but in real time "I can tell this is really a lot faster" sense. Really, how much faster would my rig be setting up 2x120 RAID array vs. a single 120 partitioned to 20 for OS/apps and 100 for file sharing running in UDMA mode 6? anyone made the upgrade recently and care to share? all in all, a 240Gb RAID 0 array for $200 wouldn't be bad but if the performance isn't there, I'll put the $$'s elsewhere....

Mar 1, 2003, 11:34 PM	#12
ToshiroOC Unbiased. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 4,812 Rep Power: 0	Don't forget shuki that this is only for sequential transfers - if you access thousands of little files, this won't be any faster than JBOD... __________________ [img][/img] [color=White]Peace be with you, Joe.[/color] Driverheaven Staff Member (Supermoderator)

Mar 2, 2003, 04:44 PM	#14
Matth Flash Banner Hater Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: UK Posts: 3,426 Rep Power: 93 System Specs	If the software handles it right, a mirrored pair gives you not only reliability (proof against a drive failure) but improves dispersed read performance if the software spreads them intelligently (usually, biasing one high, one low) For scattered reads under striping, a stripe size larger than the typical I/O size is appropriate, while for sequential performance, a stripe size smaller than the typical I/O is better. Is it a SATA raid on that board? One test showed that true SATA drives gained far more from RAID than a pair of ATA drives on SATA converters - sounds like it may be a latency issue from the converters?

Mar 2, 2003, 05:20 PM	#15
DriveEuro HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Gurnee Illinois Posts: 4,677 Rep Power: 0	SATA, yeah, Shuki....You are in the money.... Your shit is gonna fly! I actually got my other 40gb drive today... So I'll be going raid today also. __________________ [color=orange]ASUS P4P800 Deluxe [color=black]-[/color] 2.4C --> 3300mhz [color=black]-[/color] Mushkin PC3200 at 220 5-2-2-2 (cpu limited) [color=black]-[/color] BBAti 9800Pro at 430/375 [/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]01[/color] [color=black]3[/color][color=gray]D[/color]M[color=black]a[/color][color=gray]r[/color]k[color=yellow]03[/color] 16001200 12801024