Judas

So i'm looking forward to using an intel setup that i've built for the first time in many many years...


Got myself all the components (that you can see to the left in my profile)..

installed everything, hit the powerbutton... and...

it beeped, ooo..

Initially i found that ZERO USB keyboard support was present... ok that kinda blows.. maybe there is a bios update for that.... luckily there was. Fired that in and she was running dandy.

Setup the raid array, setup the bios to optimal performance mode, set my ram to 1.9v and 800mhz mode (default is 667). Loaded windows vista flawlessly.

So far i've installed, the ATI Catalyst 7.2's and enabled crossfire. And then i installed the Realtek HD audio drivers...

Now initially i thought all was well, but shortly after, i got a BSOD that didn't point to anything at all. Then the computer would lock up for no apparent reason, then the sound would go into a loop BUT i'd still be able to use windows as if nothing was wrong. (and it didn't show any crash or error either)....

Now i think i'm experiencing the issues people have been having with the vista catalyst, While i haven't experienced a single issues with the ati drivers on any AMD rig i've built thus far, all the nasties seem to be coming out of the wood work on this setup. Remember, ALL that i've changed from my AMD x2 4400+ and Asus A8R32-MVP deluxe setup to this one is Changed the RAM/MOBO/CPU, that's it, everything else IS exactly the same.

I've done a thorough memory test check on the ram, zero issues. But i just keep running into strange oddities as i use it more and more.


I haven't popped the msi disk in yet... so i may report back after i perhaps install other drivers or files related to the setup.. perhaps that'll resolve some issues. (since Intel doesn't make it very easy AT ALL to find specific drivers for thier hardware that's easy to read in any form imo)

__________________

Judas

well scratch the CD.... msi put up a pretty quick message saying "NO VISTA SUPPORT" from the cd on auto load....


ok wtf is msi doing..


go to msi for vista drivers, and they have nearly 3/4 of a year old up to nearly a full 2 year old "vista Drivers" listed from intel

and then to top it off, the most current for the intel INF, download it and find out that it's strickly for P965 chipsets.... that's just dandy...


so i'm guess there ISN'T any other drivers i need?

__________________

ChaosMinionX

MSI for a 975X? Intel Bad Axe 2 is undoubtadely the best 975X board out right now, why didnt you pick up one of those?

__________________

Tipstaff

Actually, other than stability, quality, and warranty, the Intel D975XBX/XBX2 boards have 3 major flaws: 1) they use the SigmaTel 9221 audio chip, which is pure $4!7 (other than Gigabyte, who use a Creative chip, almost everyone else uses the Realtek ALC882M.. if Intel did too, I wouldn't need to resort to my Audigy card for my audio), 2) they placed the first two PCIE 16x slots too close together, so if you have video cards with 2 slot coolers they almost touch each other, and 3) there is 1 extra, useless (for now) PCIE16x slot near the bottom of the board. The only use I have for that card, if it works, will be if I can throw in a 3rd card for use as a physics card (course, then I'll have to remove my Audigy card which is in the only available PCI slot, and go with the crappy a$$ Sigmatel audio ).

I have other personal reasons against going with MSI, but one reason I didn't consider these guys is that you can't use the JMicron controller and the Intel controller at the same time if they are both setup in RAID (unless that has changed since I first looked at it). Running the D975XBX I can run both the Intel and Silicon Image controllers in a RAID setup simultaneously (although there is a quirk to get it running). Don't know if the same can be done with the Marvell chip on the XBX2 though.

Judas, maybe you can answer something for me. Are you running a RAID setup? If so, have you noticed any issues, specifically stability issues running it in Vista? I've read a couple forum posts about people having stability problems with Intels RAID on Vista. Everything seems to run fine for them for a little while, then screws up. Most notably, when you put the system into sleep mode the RAID will not work after that (I remember a post similar to this on Abits forum actually).

__________________

PangingJr

slow down Judas. it's probably you are so new to the whole system, i don't think there is actually a real problem there.

first, reflash the system BIOS with the latest BIOS file version which you can download the BIOS file package from this page - http://www.msi.com.tw/program/suppor...UID=746&kind=1 ,
a DOS flash utility should be included in the file package, so at first setup you may need to use a floppy drive and PS/2 keyboard.

then once the system BIOS has been properly upgraded, try a USB keyboard and see if you still have any problem entering the BIOS setup program while using this keyboard, then go to the "Integrated Peripherals" page and enable the "USB Keyboard Support" and "USB Mouse Support".
if you don't often boot the system from a disk tools that contains DOS or other OSes base program, then you may not need to enable these 2 BIOS's options.
however, for now, you may want to enable these 2 options to see how the whole system work (when they are enabled).

then try starting all over again, you can create a disk or partition image of your Vista installed so that you can do a fast OS system restoration during the whole system (this includes hardware/sofware and RAID) setup and test. Ghost 11.x or True Image 10.x is fully support RAID and Vista system restoration.
you can first install Vista on a single hard drive with a RAID-ready setup (main BIOS's SATA mode set to RAID, no RAID is config'd under the Intel Matrix Stroage Manager Option ROM, but do provide the Intel 82801GH SATA RAID controller's driver during Vista installation), then once you finish with the Vista installation, create the OS's partition image and save this image file onto an eSATA or USB drive.

run the software/driver system testing under the Vista that is installed on a single hard drive with a RAID-ready setup, so that you can restore the Vista system more faster/easier. you can change the SATA mode in main system BIOS setup from RAID to IDE during restore the Vista's partition and change the SATA mode back to RAID before your first boot into Vista. True Image or some other imaging software will restore your system quite faster when you this.

then you can create another Vista's image that consists of all known good working software/drivers in it, and config your RAID using the utility in the Intel Matrix Stroage Manager Option ROM, then restore the image onto a RAID volume and then boot from it to test your system...

Dyre Straits

I have to ask you this....and this is in re: to the Sigmatel Audio (which has subsequently been bought out by IDT): Have you, or CAN you, play Oblivion on this board using the Sigmatel Audio?

I've been testing a setup with the Intel D975XBX (Bad Axe) board and a E6700 CPU with my PowerColor X1950 Pro and 1 GB of Dual Channel OCZ DDR2 800 RAM (having to run at 533 to get 1/1 Ratio) and I CANNOT play Oblivion in the great outdoors due to getting only 3 - 4 FPS!!!! Inside the cities and inside the dwellings, things are fantastic. Step outside the gates and the game becomes the worst slideshow I've ever seen in any game I've ever played.

Now, if I totally DISABLE the audio in the BIOS, the game plays AWESOME!!! I'm talking 80 -100 FPS @1280x1024;Ultra High Settings, V-Sync ON; HDR...the works!

However, if I add a PCI Audio card the results in Oblivion are the same as with the Sigmatel.....3-4 FPS outdoors but fine inside the cities and dwellings.

If you have any suggestions, I'm eager to hear them.

__________________

PangingJr

LOL, I have to ask you this.... (having to run at 533 to get 1/1 Ratio)

why you want to run FSB/DRAM 1:1? because you have found that that is the best setting? or because you think that is the best setting?

Dyre Straits

Nothing funny about it.

The mobo only supports 533/667 for RAM. If I run at 667, I get game crashes and reboots. It won't even boot into Windows at 800 because the board doesn't support it.

At 533 there are no game crashes.

__________________

PangingJr

LOL. i LOL that i repeat your words, so no nothing funny about your setting. i'm just curious why you want to do that.

Dyre Straits

Believe me, I tried for awhile to run at 667 and it just wasn't working out.

__________________

PangingJr

really, well i believe you but oh boy so you have to under-clocked your RAM just to make the system stable?


how about overclock the system bus speed @ 333 MHz and do 1:1 FSB/DRAM for RAM under-clocking to about 667 MHz have you tried running anything like this?

Dyre Straits

Not yet. I've been dealing with a big headache as mentioned in my post about Oblivion. If/When I get that resolved, I have some other things to do with this test system.

__________________

PangingJr

hmm the platform has at least native support for DDR2 667 MHz? i'm wonder what causes the system to become unstable when running memory clock/freq 333/667 MHz. what is the SPD timing on the module?
i think, better thing is to find out so you can replace the hardware, no?

Tipstaff

Which PCI audio card are you running with, btw?

To be honest, I tried the Sigmatel audio with a number of games, but hated it. I primarily play using headphones, so proper bass/treble response plays a key factor for me. The Sigmatel chip sucks for both unless you do some major equalizer tweaking, and as such I decided to go with the old standby: my Audigy. As far as I can tell the game plays pretty smooth with it.

One thing I'd suggest is going through the audio section of the Oblivion.ini file. Specifically, try turning "bDSoundHWAcceleration=1" to 0, and "bUseSoftwareAudio3D=0" to 1. If that doesn't do it, try turning off the music by changing "bMusicEnabled=1" to 0. I remember once having a hell of a time outdoors on a couple clients machines that was running onboard audio (both using SigmaTel audio infact). The major slowdown on those machines was when the game would initialize, or play music, very similar to the issue that popped up with fddshow a while back. For the life of me I couldn't fix the issue unless I turned the music off. Of note, any system I've run the game on that used the Realtek HD chips have never showed this issue. No surprise there.

BTW, I should point out that I'm running the ram in my system at full speed. That being 800mhz. Later revisions of the XBX (ver.304 and up if memory serves), as well as later bios revisions kinda slid support for DDR2-800 in there... it just wasn't widely noticed because everyone was all in a fluster over the XBX2's "native" DDR2-800mhz support. But it does work. Infact, I was surprised to find my system running the ram at the proper timings, and full speed to be honest. Now, it could be that the board doesn't like fast timings. As you can tell I'm using CL5 ram, so I can't say what might happen if I were to throw CL4 ram in there. All I know is.. it works. Which, btw, is the other reason I dumped the Asus P5W DH. That damn thing just wouldn't run stable if the ram was running at 800mhz.. not unless I did some major tweaking with the timings. Even then it was a headache to get it just right.

Edit: BTW, Dyre, one thing that drove me nuts was that Intel has 4 drivers for the audio: 2 with AC97 front panel support, 1 with the Intel Control Suite, the other one from SigmaTel, and 2 drivers that use the HD front panel spec, again, 1 with the Intel panel, one with the Sigmatel panel. How much more F'd up can you get? If anything, try each one out.

Come to think of it, I've got time to do some testing, so I'll let you know in a bit.

__________________

Dyre Straits

Thanks, Tipstaff:

It's my bedtime here, so, it will be a few hours before I can check back.

It will also be after work later before I can try out the settings you suggested re: music and others.

As far as the PCI Audio I tried: I'm not going to spend a hundred bucks on an addin card for something like this. So, I already had a Diamond Multimedia Extreme PCI Audio 7.1 card I put in. It's a "C-Media" based card. I know it's not really a good solution, BUT, the result in the game was exactly the same as the onboard Sigmatel.

__________________

Tipstaff

From what I can tell it's that damn Intel Audio Studio. The SigmaTel driver that doesn't come with it works fine. If you run either the AC97FP or HDFP driver that has the Intel Audio Studio control panel, it messes up bad. Why? It's cuz of the extra processing the Studio does. If you open up the Intel Audio Studio you will see at the bottom 2 buttons that allow you to change what processing type you want: Sonic or Dolby. For sure the Dolby processing is messing things up big time (constant frame rate problems, and stuttering). The Sonic setting isn't as bad, but still... sucks.

My advice, uninstall the drivers, and install just the SigmaTel one. Here's the thing: you can't actually uninstall the Intel Audio Studio. You first have to uninstall the SigmaTel driver, then reboot which will remove the Intel Audio Studio. But you won't be finished. You also need to delete the C:\Program Files\Intel Desktop Boards\Audio folder. If you don't, when you go to install just the SigmaTel driver the IAS will get reinstalled again.

For just the SigmaTel driver with AC97 Front Panel go HERE. For the HD Front Panel version, go HERE.

Just remember: you need to delete that C:\Program Files\Intel Desktop Boards\Audio folder or the IAS will get reinstalled.

BTW, I ran the SigmaTel only driver with the default audio settings in the Oblivion.ini file, and it ran just fine. However, you may still need to change one, or both of the settings I mentioned.

__________________

Dyre Straits

NOTED!

I just got home from work and will do some testing of this overnight. Keep your fingers crossed!


EDIT: Well, I approached this with some reserved hope that it would resolve the issue. Sadly, there's not a happy ending .... yet.

It really did take some doing to get rid of that Intel Audio Studio!! After uninstalling the Sigmatel drivers, deleting that folder, and rebooting, I had to do it about three times before it finally worked. BUT, it was due to overlooking something: I had to ALSO remove it from the StartUp files!

Anyway, unless there's something else that appears to be a substantial suggestion that looks promising, I'm simply going to leave it alone.

Tipstaff: With your system, what kind of FPS do you get with settings at 1280x1024, Ultra High, HDR, V-Sync ON, etc?

Inside the cities and inside most of the dwellings, I get 60-80 FPS. Take it outside the cities and it's 3-4 FPS.

If I completely disable all audio I actually can get 80+ FPS anywhere.

__________________

Tipstaff

Going by Oblivions internal FPS counter (via the tdt command):

When running Crossfire, inside was pretty much the same as you, while outside was about 55-70. Also, it didn't matter whether I set Catalyst A.I to "Standard" mode, or "Advanced" mode (which forces AFR) as I got the same FPS either way.

When running on a single card, 45-65 indoors, 35-55 outdoors, although the average was on the lower end of those scores.

That's running with the Audigy card, btw.

__________________

Judas

sorry for the delayed responce..


i'm running the most current bios for my board.... 7.4... so my usb keyboard is work fine now.

But i'm still getting the occasional BSOD for no reason and with no explanation that i can find (reading through the BSOD, it doesn't seem to peg anything as the culprit). And the occasional Audio sound loops kinda drive me nutz as the only way to resolve it is to restart. I've set everything down to fail safe mode in bios basically..... ram is running WAY below spec.

I think i'll post in the OCZ thread and see what they recommend for voltage and timing settings on the ram.... when i set specific values in the bios for 4-4-4-15 @ 800mhz, loading Cpu-Z, the result was 4-5-5-17 (now how does that work? )

Anyways, i'm going to do some fiddling..

my initial HDTach results were looking good, but since running them again, i'm actually getting slightly worse raid 0 performance then the ULi setup, Intel raid is performing @ 170MB/s vs ULi's 180MB/s and intel using 12% cpu usage and ULi sitting at only 3%

PangingJR, Can you get me a link to intels Latest SATARAID drivers for this raid controller, i can't seem to find the friggen thing. Vista 32bit drivers is what i need for the time being. ATM i'm just running off of the Vista supplied set of drivers and whatnot.

__________________

PangingJr

Latest version that works with your existing hardware.


Intel Chipset Software Installation Utility - 8.1.1.1010 ( http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scri...l&submit=Go%21 )


Intel Matrix Storage Manager Drivers and Software ( http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scri...l&submit=Go%21 )
1) RAID/AHCI Software - Intel Matrix Storage Manager (Intel Matrix Storage Console) - 6.2.1.1002 <--< install within Windows
2) Floppy Configuration Utility - Intel Matrix Storage Manager [F6FLPY32.ZIP] - 6.2.1.1002


Intel Chipset Identification Utility - 3.2 ( http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scri...l&submit=Go%21 )


Intel Processor Identification Utility Version 3.3 <--< may not support Vista ( http://support.intel.com/support/pro.../CS-014921.htm )

Judas

So which do i need specifically?

Do i need the indenification utility to install drivers... or could i just install whichever..

and the floppy configuration utility, is that what i use to "install other drivers" for windows vista apon first loading (instead of allowing vista to use it's own default driver)

__________________

PangingJr

[QUOTE=Judas]So which do i need specifically?

Do i need the indenification utility to install drivers... or could i just install whichever..

create a driver disk by using the "Floppy Configuration Utility", or you can extract the driver files to a flash drive, then load drivers right where you select the partition to install Vista and let Vista do an auto detect for the controller's driver, which most likely that it will choose the "Intel 82801GH SATA RAID controller" - ICH7DH.
Or, you can also use the driver files in this utility to update your RAID controller driver within Windows.

so, the steps will be...
- load the latest version of drivers during Windows installation if you can.
- once you are done with the Windows install, download and install the latest version of "Intel Chipset Software Installation Utility"
- then downlaod and install the "RAID/AHCI Software - Intel Matrix Storage Manager" (Intel Matrix Storage Console)

the "Intel Chipset Identification Utility" and "Intel Processor Identification Utility" are not hardware device drivers,
you can use these software to identify your Intel's chipset and processor.

Judas

ok.. thanks.. i'll follow through on that stuff

__________________

PangingJr

to update your RAID controller driver within Windows...
extract the "Floppy Configuration Utility" file using WinRar and then extract the xxx.IMA file again with WinImage,
you will then get the RAID controller drivers files... then go to Device Manager... expand the node "Storage controllers"... D-click the the Intel SATA RAID controller, at the Driver tab choose "Update Driver..".. then "Browse my computer for driver software"... and then loacate the driver file to update the hardware device drivers... reboot.

Judas

hmm... i downloaded the floppy utility....

tried to run it so that it would extract to the floppy.. but i just get errors.... (i'm actually trying to make a driver floppy and the floppy works flawlessly.. i checked)

__________________

Judas

hey pangingjr.... within the matrix storage configuration util (the one i installed within windows)..


Is there any performance tweaking options that i should enable?

__________________

Judas

i'm guessing it's writeback cacheing... cause i just pulled these results off..



running the test serveral times (remember this is under vista)... the burst speeds seem to jump from over 500MB/S to over 6500MB/s burst results.. that's fairly insane imo.. lol.. I screenshoted the one that seemed to be most common though.

__________________

PangingJr

this system uses your board ( MS-7246 v2.1 - MSI 975X Platinum PowerUp Edition ) + Corsair TWIN2X2048-6400C3 (800MHz, latencies of 3-4-3-9) + Radeon X1900GT/X1900 CrossFire Edition... ran an Intel Core 2 Extreme X6800 @ 3.6 (400x9) FSB/DRAM 1:1, the CL3 modules were using 5/5/5/15


i've seen this board were tested in a non-English web site a while ago. in a much older BIOS there was some problem with manual setting of RAM timing.

Judas

pangingjr... that gives me a bit more confidence in the board..

But i still gotta find out what's causing my issues.. can you link me directly to the site perhaps.

and i noticed on other thing...

the board is using the much much older bios.... actually that's the bios that came preloaded on this system... mines dated january.... 24th 2007....

I SHOULD be able to obtain a 800mhz on the ram with 3-4-3-9 timings i beleive with my ram. I mean it should technically get close to that of 1100mhz @ 5-5-5-15. I'll post in the OCZ thread and ask about the ram i've got and the timings and voltage recommended.

__________________

PangingJr

go to \Program Files\Simpli Software\HD Tach.
and then delete all the .log (event.log, init.log, tachinit.log...) files and the temp.hdt,
and then rerun the HD Tach program.