HardwareHeaven.com

HardwareHeaven.com

Looking for the skin chooser?
 
 
  • Home

  • Hardware reviews

  • Articles

  • News

  • Tools

  • Gaming at HardwareHeaven

  • Forums

 

Go Back   HardwareHeaven.com > Forums > Hardware and Related Topics > Hardware Discussion & Support


Hardware Discussion & Support Discuss all your computer hardware needs and seek support.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old Mar 18, 2007, 11:36 PM   #1
Triple screen racing ftw
 
Tril's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,664
Rep Power: 76
Tril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud of
System Specs

Velbac - Sends audio from a Creative soundcard to another soundcard

Go to Velbac webpage to download it

What it is
----------

This is a program I made that I called Velbac. It is used to send audio from a Creative soundcard to
another soundcard.

Origin of the name
-------------------

The name has a meaning. This program is a virtual cable. The names comes from that. V as in virtual and elbac as in cable reversed.

Supported source sound cards

-------------------------------
The Creative soundcard can be any of them that support "what you hear" through ASIO. I think that the only exception is a Sound Blaster Live 24-bit because it uses a different architecture. It will work with SoundBlaster Live!, Audigy, Audigy 2 and X-Fi.

Supported source sound cards audio drivers
----------------------------------------------
On the SBLive! you must use the kX project audio drivers because the drivers from Creative for this card don't support ASIO.

Audigy and Audigy 2, you can use either the kX project audio drivers or the Creative audio drivers.

On the X-Fi, you must use the Creative audio drivers.

It probably also works fine with the YouP PAX drivers on Audigy, Audigy 2 and X-Fi since they are modified Creative drivers but nobody ever tested it until now.

Why use it
-----------
One use of this program is to get EAX support on a soundcard that does not support it. To do that, you :
- Configure the default audio playback device of Windows to the Creative sound card.
- Use Velbac to send the audio from the Creative sound card to another sound card.

This way, you can have EAX support and send to a card that has higher quality outputs or hardware AC3 encoding.

The drawback is some added audio latency.

Tests done on version 1.00

----------------------------
I tested the program with a Sound Blaster Live! with the kX drivers and an onboard soundcard.
ROBSCIX tested the program with an Audigy 2 with the Creative and an X-Meridian soundcard.
A friend of ROBSCIX tested the program with an X-Fi with the Creative and an X-Meridian soundcard.

It works fine on those three different setups.

Special thanks
---------------
To ROBSCIX on Guru3D and DriveHeaven. He is the one you can thank for asking me to make this program.

Notice
-------

May cause a BSOD when used together with some specific games. Use at your own risks.

Last edited by Tril; Oct 14, 2007 at 05:03 AM. Reason: Added a notice
Tril is offline   Reply With Quote


Old Mar 20, 2007, 03:55 PM   #2
DriverHeaven Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 0
drumphil is on a distinguished road

I assume resampling is left up to directx? Any possibility of a higher quality resampling algorithm being built into velbac? I guess this is (part of) why it doesn't presently support asio output?

edit: also, thanks for a very usefull program.

Last edited by drumphil; Mar 20, 2007 at 04:08 PM.
drumphil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 20, 2007, 09:40 PM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #3
Triple screen racing ftw
 
Tril's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,664
Rep Power: 76
Tril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud of
System Specs

There's no resampling. It outputs at the frequency of the input.

There's no ASIO output because it's more complex. We are looking at reading with ASIO on a card and output with ASIO on another card. I started from the ASIO SDK and it does not allow that without some big modifications to the SDK code. The ASIO SDK was made to support only one ASIO driver and only one sound card at a time. It might be possible to modify the code of the SDK to allow that but I have no intention to do that right now.
Tril is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 21, 2007, 02:20 PM   #4
DriverHeaven Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 0
drumphil is on a distinguished road

how does it deal with the difference in sample rate between the clockgens of the two different sound cards? I assumed resamplng would be necessary without wordclock being transmitted from one card to the other (like how creative cards that can't recieve wordclock from spdif inputs handle this). It's not about the difference between 44.1k and 48k, it's about the difference between two different audio clocks running at (nearly) the same rate.. it's the "nearly" that causes the problem, as all clocks run at a slightly different speed, and drift out sync over time, causing audio glitches, and causing the audio streams to drift out of time with each other.

Thats why I assumed directx was doing the resampling if velbac produced glitch free output. Anyway, if i've got that messed up somehow, please set me straight.

Last edited by drumphil; Mar 21, 2007 at 02:33 PM.
drumphil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 21, 2007, 11:50 PM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #5
Triple screen racing ftw
 
Tril's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,664
Rep Power: 76
Tril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud of
System Specs

I decided not to do anything. I leave the audio streams drift out of time with each other.

With WaveOut, I don't know what happens. It probably produces a pop sound once in a while or the delay between the two cards increases.

With DirectSound, the delay between the two cards caused by DirectSound will never be larger than 75 ms + ASIO latency. I made the buffer used by ASIO a size of 75 ms + ASIO latency. If the difference between the two cards gets too big one way or the other, it will produce a pop sound and it will resync by dropping samples.
Tril is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 22, 2007, 04:26 PM   #6
DriverHeaven Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 0
drumphil is on a distinguished road

thanks for the info. sounds like a reasonable solution given what most people will use this for.
drumphil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 23, 2007, 02:11 PM   #7
DriverHeaven Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 7
Rep Power: 0
CoolChris is on a distinguished road

Great idea. Tried it on Vista though and it crashes, even using XP compatability.
Will there be some kind of update to address this please?
Thanks.
CoolChris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 24, 2007, 08:38 PM   #8
HardwareHeaven Senior Member
 
classic_leon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wu Han, Hu Bei, P.R.China
Posts: 1,238
Rep Power: 0
classic_leon is on a distinguished road

Great! Super fantastic!
__________________
Fashion keeps us alive.

YouP-PAX Please visit http://www.A-PAX.co.uk to discuss the computer mods. The latest YouP PAX modded drivers are provided on the site.
classic_leon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 29, 2007, 11:25 AM   #9
DriverHeaven Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1
Rep Power: 0
Merc248 is on a distinguished road

Awesome program! I found practically no lag in the audio through ASIO. This is with an X-Meridian and an Audigy 2 Platinum on Windows XP SP2.

However, I registered just now to report a pretty nasty bug: when I try to play S.T.A.L.K.E.R., my computer completely restarts! I've narrowed it down to the case of using Velbac with my Audigy 2 (with the latest drivers as far as I know); it works fine with just the Audigy 2 with Velbac disabled, and it gives an error message right when it starts if I try to use my X-Meridian as the primary card.

It MIGHT have to do with OpenAL? I'm not sure. S.T.A.L.K.E.R. does indeed use OpenAL, however. I installed the latest OpenAL drivers from openal.org and that didn't do a thing. Warcraft III (the only other game I've tested) worked just fine with Velbac.
Merc248 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 29, 2007, 05:40 PM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #10
Triple screen racing ftw
 
Tril's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,664
Rep Power: 76
Tril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud of
System Specs

I also got reports that it crashes under F.E.A.R. and Condemned:Criminal Origin. I don't know why.
Tril is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 26, 2007, 01:53 PM   #11
DriverHeaven Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 82
Rep Power: 0
Socio is on a distinguished road

Question;

If you use an Audigy which has hardware digital decoding then would it be possible to use this app to go from digital out on a cable box, to the Audigy, then have the Audigy decode the digital stream in hardware and then send it to an X-plosion, set to encode to DD 5.1 or pass through if it is a 5.1 signal back to a receiver so that every channel is DD 5.1?
Socio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 26, 2007, 04:50 PM   #12
DriverHeaven Senior Member
 
ROBSCIX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,732
Rep Power: 0
ROBSCIX is on a distinguished road

Yes. This is another use for the application. Let us know how it works for you.
ROBSCIX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 2007, 03:01 PM   #13
DriverHeaven Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 82
Rep Power: 0
Socio is on a distinguished road

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBSCIX View Post
Yes. This is another use for the application. Let us know how it works for you.
I tried to get a make shift setup to work but could not get any sound;

I tried using my old Audigy ZS with my older Audigy Plat internal drive, ( gave the Audigy card to my brother long time ago) so I could have digital coax input on the AudigyZS but I don't think they are compatible as I could not get a signal through the internal drive.

Hopefully someone else will give this a shot, if it works this would make an upgrade to a X-Fi Elite Pro/ X -Meridian modified pretty damn enticing.
Socio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 2007, 03:26 PM   #14
DriverHeaven Senior Member
 
ROBSCIX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,732
Rep Power: 0
ROBSCIX is on a distinguished road

set the AUdigy EXACTLY how you need it set for digital input. Velbac doesn't care what input is working on the Creative card. It pulls the audio from the card and "injects" it into the other.

tell me exactly how you have Velbac set. You should be able to get this config working...
ROBSCIX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 29, 2007, 11:13 PM   #15
DriverHeaven Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 82
Rep Power: 0
Socio is on a distinguished road

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBSCIX View Post
set the AUdigy EXACTLY how you need it set for digital input. Velbac doesn't care what input is working on the Creative card. It pulls the audio from the card and "injects" it into the other.

tell me exactly how you have Velbac set. You should be able to get this config working...
The problem is the Audigy 2 ZS does not seem to recognize the older Audigy internal drive which is how I was trying to get digital in from my cable box.

I will try it again this weekend, I noticed there is a digita I/O in the Audigy 2 ZS I am going to try my old X-mystque extension digital I/O board and see if it recognizes it to test with.

Side note:
In the mean time I figured out how to get my analog cable box outs to the line in on my RME card and pass it through WinAMP, then Ozone DSP and back out via the WinAMP KS output to the X-plosion encoded to 5.1 DTS. The digital music channels sound spectacular! 2 channel movies and shows @ 5.1 sound great as well, I get some good bass from them even.

I wanted to use Audioburst instead but caused lip sync problems where KS out does not, even with Ozone running.

It would be nice if Velbac can be made to be used as a plug-in in apps like WinAmp someday.
Socio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 29, 2007, 11:22 PM   #16
DriverHeaven Senior Member
 
ROBSCIX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,732
Rep Power: 0
ROBSCIX is on a distinguished road

Never know how it may develop. We are currently working on the Vista version, that is about all I can say about that...
ROBSCIX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 30, 2007, 05:15 PM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #17
Triple screen racing ftw
 
Tril's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,664
Rep Power: 76
Tril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud of
System Specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socio View Post
It would be nice if Velbac can be made to be used as a plug-in in apps like WinAmp someday.
You would like Velbac to be an input plugin in Winamp. That's something that's possible to do. I have no experience with Winamp plugins development but I'll try to make an input plugin of Velbac.
Tril is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 30, 2007, 05:25 PM   #18
DriverHeaven Senior Member
 
ROBSCIX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,732
Rep Power: 0
ROBSCIX is on a distinguished road

A Winamp plugin? - I am trying to figure out what exactly it would do in a player context?
ROBSCIX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 30, 2007, 05:39 PM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #19
Triple screen racing ftw
 
Tril's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,664
Rep Power: 76
Tril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud of
System Specs

It would work like the line in plugin.

I just read on the FAQ of Winamp that 5.1 and 7.1 speaker output does not work in Vista with Winamp. A lot of people are switching to Vista so I see no point in developing this as long as it won't work for them. I'll keep this project in mind but I'll put it on hold for now.

EDIT : I found someone in the Winamp forums saying that 5.1 output works with Winampo 5.33 in Windows Vista as long as the audio drivers support it.

Last edited by Tril; May 30, 2007 at 05:59 PM.
Tril is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 30, 2007, 07:11 PM   #20
DriverHeaven Senior Member
 
ROBSCIX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,732
Rep Power: 0
ROBSCIX is on a distinguished road

Hmm, I will test that out right now...
ROBSCIX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 30, 2007, 08:40 PM   #21
DriverHeaven Senior Member
 
ROBSCIX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,732
Rep Power: 0
ROBSCIX is on a distinguished road

Tril, I can't even install Surround plugins for Winamp!!...
I mean they will install but don't show up as options in winamp...
back to the topic I guess..
ROBSCIX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 2, 2007, 07:13 PM   #22
DriverHeaven Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 82
Rep Power: 0
Socio is on a distinguished road

We I have been trying to get Velbac to work again with digital cable out to the Creative Audigy internal drive, still no sound. The internal drive seems to work, I am using the Digital coax in on the internal and can output via the optical out on the internal back to receiver and get sound.

I am using the KX drivers this time, I do not know much about them and have tried every combination of settings to no avail. I have the Audigy 2 set as the default recorder and my X-Plosion set as default play back device in the control panel.

This is what my settings look like on my last attempt;



Any suggestions?
Socio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 3, 2007, 11:06 PM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #23
Triple screen racing ftw
 
Tril's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,664
Rep Power: 76
Tril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud ofTril has much to be proud of
System Specs

When using the kX drivers with Velbac, You need to connect some wires in the DSP.

In the DSP, connect the first 6 pins of Surrounder+ to the pins asio0 to asio5 on epilog.

DSP screenshot
Tril is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 4, 2007, 01:36 AM   #24
DriverHeaven Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 82
Rep Power: 0
Socio is on a distinguished road

Thanks will test that out!
Socio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 4, 2007, 10:25 PM   #25
HardwareHeaven Senior Member
 
GeneralClaymore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: MI
Posts: 436
Rep Power: 0
GeneralClaymore is on a distinguished road
System Specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBSCIX View Post
Tril, I can't even install Surround plugins for Winamp!!...
I mean they will install but don't show up as options in winamp...
back to the topic I guess..
I know Kernel Steaming plugin for winamp will do it same for foobar. I had a Kernel steaming plugin but lost it
__________________
Source: X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Optical > Audio-GD NFB15.32> DT880 premiums 600ohm
GeneralClaymore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 20, 2007, 07:13 PM   #26
DriverHeaven Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 77
Rep Power: 0
skinnie is on a distinguished road

Tril there is no way to "mod" this program to work for other cards no?for example it would be very cool for me if this program could do the same but with my onboard =) [soundstorm]
thanks
__________________
DFI NF2 Ultra+Athlon XP-Mobile 2600+ [SP97]
2x512 Mushkin Redline Xp4000 [OCZ XTC Cooler]
Albatron 6800GT@Ultra 256mb DDR3 [VF900CU]
Terratec Aureon Space 7.1@Prodigy 7.1
Audigy 2 ZS
Logitech X-530 5.1
Sennheiser HD201


skinnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 20, 2007, 08:46 PM   #27
DriverHeaven Senior Member
 
ROBSCIX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,732
Rep Power: 0
ROBSCIX is on a distinguished road

You could use the Soundstorm as the output card but you need a Creative card for the default card. You could use the soundstorm to encode to digital surround any audio coming from the Creative card...
I am not sure if Trill is planning on making this application totally universal or not.
ROBSCIX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 23, 2007, 07:34 PM   #28
DriverHeaven Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 77
Rep Power: 0
skinnie is on a distinguished road

I am only using soundstorm because it has hardware accelreation and to avoid buying a creative card,that was very cool if this program could be universal =)
__________________
DFI NF2 Ultra+Athlon XP-Mobile 2600+ [SP97]
2x512 Mushkin Redline Xp4000 [OCZ XTC Cooler]
Albatron 6800GT@Ultra 256mb DDR3 [VF900CU]
Terratec Aureon Space 7.1@Prodigy 7.1
Audigy 2 ZS
Logitech X-530 5.1
Sennheiser HD201


skinnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 23, 2007, 11:14 PM   #29
DriverHeaven Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 82
Rep Power: 0
Socio is on a distinguished road

Thumbs Up!

I can now confirm Velbac works with XFI pro card and the X-Plosion DD/DTS card playing back DD in from Cable box with the XFI decoding and the X-Plosion doing on the fly DD 5.1 encoding of non 5.1 channels and it sounds awesome!

Note: I found that you have to enable bit matching playback in Creative's audio mode to use the two card setup I mentioned or you get lip sync problems. Should also be noted when using Bit Matching is also means no Crystalizer, EQ or other enhancements.

Last edited by Socio; Jun 24, 2007 at 12:47 PM.
Socio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 24, 2007, 08:31 PM   #30
DriverHeaven Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 82
Rep Power: 0
Socio is on a distinguished road

I found if I loopback with the XFI I can use Winamp for example for playing back cable TV sound with stuff like crystalizer and SVM enabled then outputting to my X-Plosion with no latency or lip sync problems. However with Velbac using the same settings I do get, latency or lip sync problems.

I know you guys are developing a version for Vista however was thinking, while you are at it maybe you can find a way to reduce latency or perhaps make low latency versions of Velbac for XP & Vista.

I know with the VAC there is a a small program that is called Audio repeater that can be used to playback line in from one card and back out another. Using stock settings you get bad latency but if you set the Total Buffer ms from 1000 to 100 you get no latency. So it maybe just a matter of providing a way to manipulate all the buffers associated with the playback.
Socio is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools