MGaz

Can anyone recommend or know what are/were the best CRT monitors, & what maxim size I can get them in?

I'd like a better one than the 21" I've got at the moment, how big can I go? and what would be an excellent 'used/second hand' buy ? & what kind of price to pay?

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Pluvious

Here in 2007, we don't really "have" 21+ CRT's anymore.

(I'm using a Viewsonic Graphics Series G220fb btw)

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Judas

IMO, i prefer the Samsung Syncmaster CRT lineup.. but anything CRT is going and gone pretty much now.

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ChaosMinionX

Dear god a CRT in the age of DLP and TFT and HD, please no

Get a solid LCD theres nothing really a CRT could do that a LCD cant do these days. Refresh rates are phenominal, picture is great, no real need for higher refresh rates anymore either as you cant really tell the difference with LCDs some will go up to 85hz I believe.

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MGaz

well mines an old HITACHI Accuvue, 21"(20 visible).

I have a (usable) res of up to 1600x1200 @ 65Hz, I can go beyond that res but it starts looking ugly. I can run 1024x768 @ 100Hz, and higher the lower down the res I go.

What I'm looking for is a 'flat' tube with 22" (21 visible) with really high res (with a clear picture at the same time)

I also need very high refresh rates at 1600x1200 and above if possible.

I'm thinking at the very least 120Hz @ 1600x1200.

But i'd prefer a refresh of 170Hz @ 1600x1200. but if not, 150Hz would be second best. And of course anything higher, the better really.

Any ideas anyone? High refresh + picture quality is the thing I'm after here.

cheers!

MGaz.

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DudeBoyz

I purchased a Viewsonic G225F because I wanted another 21" CRT to backup my trusted P225. I have it sitting on one of the machines to the right of me.

It had about the best specs I could find, a trusted brand name, and it did a full 2048x1536 at a decent refresh rate.

Unfortunately, I don't find it holds up that well to the Viewsonic P225 that I use on my main machine.

I'm pretty disillusioned about it really. $450 was a chunk of change, and while I can sorta use the thing at 1600x1200, it just doesn't hold a candle to what I'm used to at any resolution that is higher than that.

At the same time I bought that CRT, I went ahead and bought a Viewsonic VP2030b for my "server" type machine (it's really a super peer that shares its resources with the other PC's in my room here) and I'm finding that I wish I had simply bought two of those VP2030b LCD's, which show the same 1600x1200 in almost the same 20.1" of space.

I'm not an LCD guy normally, but it seems I just could not find a CRT that was of the same level of quality as the Viewsonic P225.

They are pushing CRT's out of the way, and I'm really bummed about it. But I just don't know of any models worth recommending any more.

Best of luck. I hope you find what you are looking for.

DB

MGaz

hi 'DudeBoyz' .

What refresh rates can you run at them resolutions on the P225 and G225F etc etc?

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DudeBoyz

P225 I can do 2048x1536@75hz. Here is a link from Viewsonic:

http://www.viewsonic.com/support/des...roseries/p225/

Here is the table they list:

2048x1536 @ 79Hz
1920x1440 @ 84Hz
1600x1200 @ 99Hz
1280x1024 @ 115Hz

Even though it lists 79, 84, 99 and 115, I usually find that you have to round down to the nearest "standard" mark. 79 means 75. 84 means 80. 99 means 90 and 115 means 100.

Here is the page for the G225FB:

http://www.viewsonic.com/products/de...25fb/index.htm

Their information is in this PDF file:

http://www.viewsonic.com/pdf/us_eng/...pchart_crt.pdf

It lists things in a nice table that basically says this:

800x600 = 160Hz
1024x768 = 155Hz
1280x1024 = 118Hz
1600x1200 = 102Hz
1792x1344 = 91Hz
1856x1392 = 88Hz
1920x1440 = 85Hz
2048x1536 = 80Hz

Hope that gives you what you are looking for.

I would put some serious effort into actually viewing this monitor before you buy it. I can't emphasize enough how personal display choices are. What looks good to one person may not be acceptable to another.

If you are unable to view one before purchase, I would advise buying from a place that will let you return / exchange it if you do not like it. If I had it to do over again I would NOT purchase the G225FB. I went ahead on faith based upon my previous experience with Viewsonic CRT's. But for me, the G225FB is indeed a let down. Though I do prefer CRT's for gaming in this case I wish I had bought another Viewsonic VP2030b instead. Same price, better clarity when using a DVI-D connection.

Best of luck.

Tril

I'm using a 21" hp p1230. I use it at a resolutiuon of 1280x960 at 120 Hz. It can do 2048x1536 at 85 Hz but everything looks too small at that resolution. At 1600x1200, it does 100 Hz.

I guess that's not quite enough for you. Are you looking at using stereo glasses to play in 3D?

Judas

Getting a CRT capable of even 120HZ @ 1600x1200 is nearly inconceiveable, the price tag on it would be enourmous and difficult to built probably.

Considering the massive amount of bandwidth need to generate that frequency.

Reguardless, at this point in time, ignoreing LCD screens (decent ones) would be considerably er... "not smart"? There is at this point in time now, with a decent quality LCD, absalutely no comparison between the 2... LCDs are HUGELY better in every single way.

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DudeBoyz

One thing I discovered is that the new video cards with DUAL DVI are designed primarily for LCD's.

There are no Analog Filters on DUAL DVI cards, so signal quality to your analog device, like a CRT, can be severely compromised.

MGaz

Hey ChaosMinionX , you do know LCD's are going to be superseded by a new generation of FLAT CRT's don't you?

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Judas

actually... that's quite unlikely now with the way the lcd generations are preceeding to get better, the SED displays were talked about, but they are even starting to fall to similare grounds as LCD and lcd will soon surpass them.

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MGaz

yes, I'm thinking of my shutter glasses. 120Hz at 1280 x 960 I could live with if thats all I can get.

DVI only video cards?..
Well if i buy one of these surly it won't be a problem. This is a picture of an IBM CRT 21". & that would appear to be a 'DVI' if I'm not very much mistaken.

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DudeBoyz

There were supposed to be two innovations on CRT's that never seemed to make it, probably due to the rise of LCD's.

One was the SLOT MASK screen, which combined the stability of Shadow Mask with the increased brightness of Aperture Grille. The other was SHORT TUBE CRT's. Imagine a 21" CRT that is 1/2th the depth of current models.

I've been waiting, and all I see is a pull-back from CRT's (especially at the high end) and a rush into LCD's, so I'm not holding my breath.

I'm one of the biggest CRT fans out there, but even I have to accept the sad truth.

BTW, the Viewsonic VP2030b is on sale at Mwave for $406 or so:

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/DeepSearc...30b&ALL=y&TP=1

Very, very nice deal.

Judas

kinda interesting that the sucker has a DVI port... but finding another with one is going to be tough i think.

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ChaosMinionX

Are we both in the same dimension? CRTs were replaced by LCDs and LCD technology keeps getting better and better like TFT and LED usage for improving the image and colors and resolutions, and whatever else....Where in the world did you read this? and why would we go back to big CRTs that suffer from burnin and strain your eyes. You may want to consider the validity of your sources on this statement

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DudeBoyz

Is that connector on that IBM a true DVI-D connector? Or is it basically a VGA to DVI analog converter?

Thanks

OldBuzzard

Yeah, everyone wants you to go LCD but I'm still convinced that they can't compare to a good high end CRT.

If you are looking at 21" then I'd tale a look that the Sony GDM 5411 or GMD 5510. These are high end workstation monitors, and are available re-furbed, and sometimes as NOS or NEW.

For over 21" look at the Sony SONY GDM-FW9012 (24" Wide screen).

You can find a bit more info on them here: http://www.sunshack.org/data/sh/2.0/...NITOR_TOC.html

I know that this site sells all of these monitors: http://www.accurateit.com/home.asp

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DudeBoyz

Are we talking PC monitors here, or television sets?

On the PC side, I would have agreed with you at one point, but I can't seem to find any good higher-end consumer desktop CRT's being made any more.

I'm talking 21" CRT's that do 2048x1536 at 75hz or better. The Viewsonic P series - the Pro series - is not even making 21" CRT's any more. Nokia isn't either to my knowledge. Is there anyone actually making new ones that are high quality?

How many high-end video cards on the ATI side are being sold with an actual VGA port on the back plate instead of dual DVI?

My recent experience has convinced me that as a consumer, my choice is just about gone.

ChaosMinionX

The thing with High end LCDs that have resolutions dont need high refresh rates to produce an image equal or better than a CRT, I would gladly put my LCD against the top of the line CRT of today or when they were actually in full swing, and I would bet money my LCD looks better for anything you could think of.

Not to mention Samsungs' new LED SyncMaster XL20 is on the forefront of what an LCD is going to be and it keeps getting better, Wanting a CRT these days is lunacy imho it doesnt boil down to a monetary fact, or even picture quality fact because as of right now a good LCD will give you a better picture than a CRT ever could. And LCDs are very cheap these days, even for nice ones.

Not to mention the theme that no video card has real support for CRT anymore they are being phased out and were fine for the times, as well as CRT based TVs but almost all HDTVs are DLP/LCD/Plasma these days and it isnt going to change, they even have further advances in LCDs coming Aquos from Sharp is a prime example of what LCDs can really do today.

Most people hold onto their CRTs because they refuse to let go of what they thought was good once, just like the AMD / Intel fanwars and ATI / Nvidia wars that erupt its same as LCD / CRT but CRT is being phased out because there is no sense in producing them anymore, they are bulky, and obsolete when LCDs are doing everything CRTs did and more.

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DudeBoyz

I hear your point. I sincerely do.

I have 4 main computers in a line, one right next to the other, in this order:

21" P225 CRT --- 24" iMac LCD --- 21" G225F CRT --- 20.1" VP2030b LCD

I run them at 1856x1392, 1920x1200, 1600x1200 and 1600x1200 respectively.

I see them all right next to each other each and every day.

The LCD's have better desktop / text clarity
The CRT's have better black and grey representation
The iMac LCD is simply far too bright, even with adjustments
The Viewsonic LCD does not have deep rich colors
CRT's handle gaming and videos much, much better
LCD's are so far not nearly as good for pantone color matching
CRT's are bulky and heavy
LCD's do not seem nearly as flexible in terms of end-user adjustments
My CRT's never get stuck pixels
My LCD's don't usually get out of focus at various points on the screen

I could go on, but the point is neither one is better than the other in all areas, in my opinion.

For gaming and CAD work, I absolutely prefer CRT's because of their configurability. A good CRT with digital controls allows you to set the size and shape of the display for each resolution / refresh rate combination the monitor is capable of handling. If I draw a SQUARE in AutoCAD and need that square to actually show as perfectly square, I can use those digital controls on the CRT to adjust and tweak each resolution so that it does match perfectly.

I can adjust the color so that it matches the printed color when showing clients their brochures. I can hardly emphasize enough how many clients FREAK out if the color they saw on screen does not match the final printed color. I have them look at the stuff on MY monitor - which I can personally calibrate - so that they don't get unexpected results. For some folks, that can be a deal breaker, and so far, none of the 3 LCD's that I own (I also have the Samsung 204b) can do color calibration like a good CRT can.

For image editing and graphical rendering, including gradient vector stuff in Corel Draw, I also prefer CRT's, for some of the above reasons.

However, for average daily web browsing, working with a word processor, spreadsheet, doing email and stuff like that, I certainly see the appeal of LCD's. A good LCD with a good DVI-D source can look about as crisp and clear as you could possibly hope for. Because they are Active Matrix, they don't refresh like CRT's do, so the 60hz signal has no real relevance in terms of refresh rates. Your DVI-D is locked at 60hz so there is no strain on the hardware because there is no need to push things to higher frequencies. Plus, 60hz matches the frequency used by most analog video cameras, so you don't get that "flickering" thing like when you video tape someone watching a computer monitor.

I'm aware of the XL20, and think it is a very good step in the right direction and may go a long way to helping ease the fears of some of the folks out there. But it's still not quite there yet.

Anyway, I wish we still had some good high-end CRT development, cause I don't want to get left behind. I'm used to stuff working the way it has for years, and until LCD's can do about everything that my CRT's can do, and do it just as well, I don't want to be forced to switch.

Tril

MGaz is looking for a monitor he can use with his shutter glasses.

It can look incredible to see a game in real 3D for the first time. The monsters in Dark Messiah look so much more nice in 3D. Unfortunately it does not work perfectly in this game and you lose the hud if you play in stereo so it's not really useable.

I bought the wired eDimensional shutter glasses, my 21" hp p1230 monitor and my GT 7900 video card to get good performance in real 3D. It works but I don't use it much. There is no flickering but there is some slight ghosting noticeable. The glasses are not fast enough or the phospor of the monitor is not fast enough to give a perfect picture in 3D. I'm a bit picky when it comes to video quality so it's not good enough for me but it might be good enough for others.

a GDM-FW900 from sony might be nice if you successfully get one. You can only get one used as they are not produced anymore. It's a 24" widescreen monitor. I don't know how high a refresh rate it goes but it may be high enough. I actually bought one on ebay before my current monitor but it was destroyed during shipping. That was really a shame.

ChaosMinionX

I hear you on being forced to switch, same thing M$ did to people with DX10 cards that dont wanna buy that pile of code they call vista.

However, the Sharp Aquos and the new Samsung True Black LCD panels are quite impressive, but getting back to the fact of computer LCDs the higher range of TFT LCDs from Samsung produce amazingly nice blacks and colors. Check out a 226bw review, you can even see different shades of black down to percentages of contrast shown between the blacks on several different LCD benchmarks.

I generally would go along with a solid piece of hardware regardless of who its made by, but Im going to have to say I agree with some of your comparisons on LCD to CRT but the new panels you just have to look at... Most panels are only in the 16.2m color range and 600:1 - 1000:1 contrast until you spend about 300$ then you get 16.7m colors and panels starting at 1000:1 contrast with nice fast response times.

Speaking of Samsung LCDs which I consider to be the best ive seen and used considering I own a new 40" lcd by them, and a 19" standard LCD and a 22" widescreen. They are by far better than my LG and Sony monitors that I had as well as one viewsonic that was only a 17"

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Zelig

Pretty much what I was going to post. Sony was as good as they got for CRT monitors. FWIW, in Canada, I can order refurb monitors that do 1600x1200 at 100 Hz for under $200 a pop.

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DudeBoyz

Weren't all Sony monitors Aperture Grille?

I remember Iiyama was very, very good. I liked their Shadow Mask monitors a lot.

Dyre Straits

Just poking my nose in here as I'm still in the 'dark ages' of CRT monitors.

My main monitor is a 21" NEC MultiSync E1100+ and I run it all day long at 1280x1024@85Hz. Probably not the quality a lot of you are looking for. BUT, I only paid $30 US for it two years ago.

My second CRT on this same rig is a Hitachi SuperScan Elite 751 19 inch that has better black/gray, IMO, but, I really like the 21" for everyday use and gaming. I paid about $100 for the Hitachi over 5 years ago. My son was so impressed with it, he bought himself one, too.

These are USED monitors and have given me a lot of satisfaction and I can say for sure that I've gotten my money's worth.

The first 21" CRT I bought brand new from Computer City about 8 years ago and paid $400+ for it. It's a built by MAG Innovision monitor and is the only one I've had to have serviced. It's used on my second rig and isn't up to par with the two I've already mentioned.

Now, I have no idea what 3D would look like on any of them.

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Zelig

Only the good ones.

Sony's Trinitron line was the original aperture grill tech. NEC/Mitsubishi's Diamontron and Viewsonic's Sonictron lines were copied from the Sony design. Most other aperture grill monitors (Dell, HP, Compaq) were just rebranded Sony or Mitsubishi models.

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Judas

Samsungs 1100DF series 21" monitors were capable of 2048x1536 @ 83hz... And had a steller 0.20 dot pitch and looked freaking awesome.

I think Drakon is still trying to sell it in the BUY/SELL forum, or send him a PM....

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DudeBoyz

My eyes are strange and I could always seem to see the vibrating vertical wires and the horizontal stabilizer wires were always too prevalent for me.

Thank goodness for Shadow Mask.

I really am bummed that Slot Mask never really saw the light of day. It was supposed to combine the best of both worlds.