phantommenace2

my 7 year old Sony 21' CRT monitor is starting to show symptoms of breaking down so I'm in the market for a new monitor...I'm a hardcore gamer and I was all set to go with an LCD but there isn't 1 monitor that has all the features I am looking for---low response time, 8-bit, low input lag, S-IPS or S-PVA, high contrast, swivel/tilt etc...not to mention the whole risk of getting an LCD with dead pixels etc

so I was wondering if there are any high quality CRT monitors still available for purchase anywhere?...I see Viewsonic still sells them but 19' seems to be their max...what are people's opinions on buying a new CRT monitor nowadays?

BlueMak

I can see the attraction in getting a CRT, but I wouldn't buy one anymore. The TFT monitors are good enough for my taste.

The only way to get 8-bit for sure is to get a 24 inc monitor. Most other smaller monitors claim to be 8-bit but they are 6 bit with dithering. Not that there aren't 24"+ that are not 6bit...
I am satisfied with my monitor (see specs). I have also heard good things about Dell 2407 and some Philips models. It's really something that you would need to spend a lot of time into. There is a lot of info on a lot of monitors and you will have to figure out what is real and what is smoke screen.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

phantommenace2

why buy an LCD just for the sake of buying one?...it has to match or exceed the quality of my current CRT for it to make any sense...and the LCD technology is still not there yet for high end gamers...you have to compromise image quality by getting a TN panel with low response times or suffer with good image quality but bad input lag and response times

I think a good CRT is a better investment for the next few years

BlueMak

Don't confuse input lag with high response times. Just because a monitor has one doesn't mean it has the other too.

First of all, it is up to you what monitor you buy, I couldn't care less if you buy a TFT or not, it is you that asked a question, I didn't come to your home and pressure you to buy one.

You don't have to buy a TN panel as you know. There are very good non TN panels at 8ms and at 12ms that you can't see any ghosting.

If you are set to buy a CRT monitor, good for you, do it. But don't confuse TFT monitors from 7 years ago to modern ones.

__________________

The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

swimtech

For all of CRT based displays measured superiority (brightness, contrast, unlimited colors displayed...), I honestly prefer fixed aspect ratio displays (LCD, Plasma, DLP) overall - because of two factors that LCD displays (as a for instance) exhibit over CRT based displays - razor sharp focus at native resolution and rock solid picture - no bounce or flicker. Those qualities make up the difference for me for the reasons I use a computer display - which is mainly to display fixed images. They're "good enough" now for gaming and video as well, because the perception thresholds for seeing the shortcomings of fixed aspect ratio displays in comparison to CRTs has recently been (mostly...) surpassed - even in inexpensive LCD displays.

The eyes together with the brain do a pretty good job of blending together (interpolating) gaps in color capability, and banding (usually occuring when displaying a large, and relatively still, screen area of slightly different shades of one color) can be overcome with proper electronic dithering (faking the in between colors). The brain and eyes also ignore the second, less intense, double image on fast moving objects so that you don't really sense it much anymore as long as the display is "fast enough" - even though you can plainly see the second image when the moving image is photographed as a still image.

The shortcomings of fixed aspect ratio displays, like LCDs, is being "researched and developed" constantly. Little, if any, research is being done to make CRTs better... LCD and other fixed aspect ratio, digitally based, displays are getting better and better. CRT based displays are not.

CRT based analog and LCD based digital displays, and the source signal displayed (here comes 2009!) is going through the same transition audio went through during the transition from vinyl (analog) to CD (digital). Fixed aspect displays are good now and getting better.

Even so, and having said that, real sights and sounds are truly analog in nature - and we sense them with analog devices - our eyes and ears processed by our brain. We still don't know though if our brain processes by analog or digital means (hmmm...). Question is, which kind of device can we make to reproduce those sights and sounds the best? Looks like digital from my perspective.

About makers of CRT monitors - Sony, Viewsonic, NEC, Samsung, and Mitsubishi still make them I believe - they're just hard to find and fairly expensive for the size in comparison with LCDs.

And yes, I still go back and listen to vinyl. Those half speed mastered LPs (Billy Joel's The Bridge, for example) still give me goosebumps when played using my still useful Shure VSTIII-P cartridge and hyperelliptical stylus mounted to a linear arm in my JVC LE-33 turntable. But a Mobile Fidelity Gold CD of Supertramp's Crime of the Century gives me the same goosebumps streaming the digital audio data from my $30.00 Cyberhome DVD player. The turntable/cartridge setup cost $400.00 though. I think were seeing something of this trend in video displays too...

I ranted again...

Look at IPS panels for the utmost quality - I saw a Panasonic TV that just blew me away, and there are good IPS panels available as computer monitors too...

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It's not so much getting your way that matters or not - what matters is how you go about getting it.

[hobo]eclipse

Best bet would prolly be to look around at any small town computer shops or pawn shops you might have around, i remember see'n some dell 19 or 20 inch crt's at a local shop a few years back for like 100 bucks or so, wanted to go and get one but i never made it back

phantommenace2

that is both a blessing and a curse...yes LCD's look amazing at their native resolution BUT once you move away from that native res the picture quality goes down substantially...what happens if I want to play Crysis but I only have a 1900 x 1200 native resolution monitor---either it plays with very low frame rates and/or with a lot of the graphical settings turned off or I will have to lower the resolution which again degrades the PQ

I currently have a high end Trinitron CRT and it is much more flexible in regards to resolutions, refresh rates etc and doesn't suffer from any ghosting or input delays like LCD's do

I think 12ms is kinda high...8ms at the very minimum is needed...yes there are non-TN panels that have 8ms response times but those also have high input lags or contrast issues or some other factor which makes buying them not ideal...I don't think the perfect LCD for high end gamers has been made yet, there are still too many compromises that need to be made

BlueMak

Check my profile for my monitor. It has it all, or none, whatever is the better

If you don't like it, then look for others. No one said it is easy to pick a great TFT monitor. It took me a year before deciding my monitor.

But as I said earlier, if you are so set on getting a CRT, please do. As you said not many keep making them. So, you will either have to get lucky and finding a good one, second hand or whatever, OR swallow the pill and get a TFT monitor. The market will not change back to the CRT monitors, you know it. The less you complain about it (to yourself I mean), the sooner you will enjoy a good TFT monitor and not even think about returning to the CRT box.

__________________

The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

OldBuzzard

Here ya go Phantom:

AccurateIT. Monitors, Computers, Accessories, Notebooks, Used monitors, 17 inch, 19 inch, 21 inch, electronics repair, appliance repair, amplifier repair, high end repair, monitor repair, DLP Repair, DLP TV Projector service

It's big, it's heavy (takes 2 men and a boy to move it), it takes up a huge amount of desk space....

And there isn't one LCD monitor anywhere in the world that I'd trade mine for

I have the SGI branded version, and I've seen a number of sites that claim that the SGI's were the best of the lot, but you can't go wrong with any of them.

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When looking for a reason as to why things go wrong, never rule out sheer STUPIDITY

phantommenace2

AWESOME!!!...thanks for the info OldBuzzard!!...they got some really nice top of the line CRT's there along with some amazing prices...and they sound legit too

Zelig

Pretty much the reasons why my primary display is an LCD now. No matter what kind of display you get, you're going to be sacrificing some qualities.

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swimtech

Yeah, I understand this is the main issue for most. Scaling in LCDs is getting better, but it's not quite there yet. But for gaming and movies at this point, it's good enough for me, but I can understand you want better than that. I'm a Trinitron fan too...

I know if you search Dyre's posts from a year or so ago - maybe a little less time than that, you'll find a link to a site that sells refurbed IBMs - they use Trinitron tubes for the P series models (and I was using one here at work until just over a year ago). A member here bought one too, can't remember the name though...

A link to a refurbed P96 Here and to more CRT monitors from various manufacturers Here

Oh, and crap, looks like good ol' Samsung is out of the CRT business...

__________________
It's not so much getting your way that matters or not - what matters is how you go about getting it.

OldBuzzard

DAng...the link didn't go to where I wanted it to

I was referring to the SGI/Sony FW900 24" of wide screen goodness

AccurateIT - 24" SGI GRAY FD Trinitron Flat CRT GDM-FW9011 Monitor ** FREE Freight Shipping **

__________________
When looking for a reason as to why things go wrong, never rule out sheer STUPIDITY

swimtech

Now that's a Trinitron!

Wonder what those cost new...

__________________
It's not so much getting your way that matters or not - what matters is how you go about getting it.

RobertBruce

I agree with the OP, I can't give up on crt's yet - I have two next to each other right now. Something as simple as true black should not be so big an issue but lcd's still don't look quite right.

phantommenace2

what does '[COLOR=#000080][COLOR=black]Dot Pitch 0.23mm - 0.27mm Variable' mean?...I thought dot pitch was a fixed number...like my current GDM-F520 has an amazing .22mm dot pitch...when they give you a range, what determines what the dot pitch is for a given image?[/COLOR][/COLOR]

OldBuzzard

I think that it's 0.23 at the center and gradually goes to 0.27 at the outside edges. I believe I read that someplace...but at my advanced age, the short term memory isn't as good as it used to be

Again, if I remember corectly, those puppys went for something like $2,400.00 or so new.

__________________
When looking for a reason as to why things go wrong, never rule out sheer STUPIDITY

swimtech

That's what's nice about being a geek, the brain is the last to go - although we may wish other things lasted longer...

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It's not so much getting your way that matters or not - what matters is how you go about getting it.

tullnd

Trinitrons have elliptical dot pitches. Not circular.