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Old Mar 24, 2008, 10:08 PM   #31
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you were saying?
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Old Mar 25, 2008, 02:34 AM   #32
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Yeah, my school switched to Macs this year, they're all bootable in either Mac OS, Windows or Fedora.

If only we didn't have to use the Apple mice/keyboards...
ya apple mouses are awful. Their keyboards aren't bad though. Even the old ones are quite easy to type on.
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Old Mar 25, 2008, 04:59 AM   #33
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i've been forcing myself to use the apple "mighty mouse" at home, although it's useless for gaming (can't press more than 1 button at a time) it's actually not that bad, and i do find myself using the scroll ball in my music apps

the ultra-thin keyboard on the other hand, well, it's the best keyboard i've ever used. period.
the older white key ones at school i thought were quite nice to type on, better than most pc-bundled keyboards
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You know, there's "off topic" and then there's so freakin' off topic it you gotta wear a straitjacket to join the conversation.
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Old Mar 25, 2008, 08:58 AM   #34
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Macs are pretty nice, well designed for the Hollywood elite, have great software and bugger the whole gaming experience. A cheap Mac is agreat email tool. I bought two for my daughter and I like them well enough. People that hate them or dislike them are making intelligient choices I hope, not based on a popular bias either for or against them. Pretty soon it isnt going to matter anyway.
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Old Mar 25, 2008, 10:30 AM   #35
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The world is going to end?
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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
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Old Mar 25, 2008, 03:58 PM   #36
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The world is going to end?
That's exactly what i thought, it'll happen the day Bill Gates enters an apple store
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Old Mar 25, 2008, 08:13 PM   #37
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That's exactly what i thought, it'll happen the day Bill Gates enters an apple store
kinda like dogma, where existence would end when the fallen angels walked into that church
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You know, there's "off topic" and then there's so freakin' off topic it you gotta wear a straitjacket to join the conversation.
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Old Mar 26, 2008, 07:54 PM   #38
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As a proud owner of a beautiful MacBook Pro, I have to respond to this thread.
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1) Anything OSX can do Windows can do. Look at the 3rd party support for windows. It is HUGE and you can find just about anything you want and 90% of the time you can find it for free. You can even download the free object dock like the MAC has for their start menu and run it perfectly well on XP/Vista.
This is very true for most things. as dj_stix was saying, when it comes to certain specialized software, OSX has its strongpoints as does Windows. However, I do not feel that this alone is enough to say OSX is that much worse than Windows, if at all.

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2) Why even consider switching to OSX when everything for the most part works so well with windows? Sure you can say stuff just works with Mac, but your right it should. The reason why it should work 100% perfect is because most of the useful things are coming from Mac itself and would look bad if it was crashing,locking up etc. On the PC you can download useful apps, and sure some might not run as well as others, but its because 3rd party people are programming it and have such a larger user base to work for.
Why change your hair style when yourself and everyone around you is used to it? Your old hairstyle must have been decent, otherwise you would not have kept it, right?
Switching to Mac is a personal preference thing, as Lowfat was mentioning earlier. It's a change from Windows, which may be very refreshing for some people and may not be for others.

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3) Is the OS really that different than windows? Well I say no. It seems the trend of Mac users are saying it's not possible to get a virus, spyware or anything else to mess up your computer. Well I would like to say that if you believe that no wonder why you bought a Mac. At the moment it's easier to mess XP with that stuff because there is so much out there because of the user base. Just wait about 5 years for the Mac user base to build up and it will just be like XP/Vista. Anything made by people will be cracked by people and its as simple as that.
The reason Mac's have no viruses is because no self-respecting virus coder gives a crap about Mac users. There's no money or even good ol' fun involved in that market, considering Apple still holds less than 10% of the computer market share. It would be a waste of time to code a virus for a system base where only so many people would get hit when you can go hit a billion people on Windows.
For me, the entire workflow of OS X is an entirely different feel from that on Windows; one which I prefer. The tight integration of features such as Spaces and Expose are really key in my daily usage of my computer. Sure, you can get 3rd party apps to do that kind of stuff on Windows, but its not nearly as neat and elegant. For what I do (internet surfing, word processing, chatting, email, videos, and light video editing), OS X suits me perfectly.

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4) The trend also seems from Mac users that they have the best computer in the world. Well the build quality is good, but is it really worth all the money? I mean sure you get a nice case and what not, but that's most of the price. The parts in it are really not that special like the laptops. A bit on the smaller hard drive, Ok to decent sized CPU, and the ram tends to be lacking.

With a PC laptop its easy to find one with equal specs with more hard drive space, more ram, faster CPU and something bigger than that small 13.3 inch screen that Mac designers think everyone wants...
Not entirely true. If you walk into a Circuit City or Best Buy, most of the laptops you'll see are mid-range laptops that still run for about $1000 (especially if you are looking at HP's with Intel chips).
Let's take, for example, the HP dv2890nr (14.1") (on CC's webpage). It retails for $1000. It has a slow Intel processor, even though it is still a C2D, 3GB RAM, and a 250GB HDD. Not a bad price for a laptop, though still a tad bit high in my opinion.
Now, let's take the higher end standard configuration MacBook. It's 13.3" (keep in mind smaller means more money generally), has a MUCH faster C2D, only 2GB RAM, and only a 160GB HDD. It retails for $1299.
In my eyes, the prices are actually pretty comparable in both scenarios. Sure, the HP costs $300 less and has an extra GB of RAM and way more HDD space, but the difference in speeds of the CPU alone and smaller profile is worth $300 to me. 3GB RAM is excessive for most laptop usage and external drives are getting much cheaper. I would personally much rather get a faster CPU than anything, and the MacBook would deliver just that and not for an astonishingly ridiculous premium (which the MacBook Pro has, I won't deny that).

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5) Plus all the 3rd party support for all the small apps, like just about anything you would want including the fancy little task bar that mac has you can do on the PC for free called object dock and all programs you might be interested in it's 99.9% of the time windows can run. On the other hand you can't really say that with Mac and their OS.
Again, has to do with integration and elegance. It's already there in Mac, you didn't have to do extra work to get it.

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EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING that Mac puts out should work 100% with the MAC OS right? I mean Mac really is the only one who puts out software that's useful and kind of locks you in to buying their stuff only with limited 3rd party support. I consider Mac more of a monopoly than Windows. It did help that they switched to Intel.

With Windows the support is SO GREAT with 3rd drivers,programs,players and just about anything you need is a great reasons why not to switch to the OSX. Sure buy a mac but have XP or vista loaded on it.
Apple definitely does have a tight grip on its users, and I personally dislike that very much. But back again to 3rd party support, it all depends on what you need. Windows is just right for some people and just not for others.

All that being said, I absolutely despise Apple fanboys. They are the most despicable clique of people I have ever encountered in my entire life on the internet. They praise Steve Job's and breathe in every word he says as the one holy truth. Apple has their good points and lots of bad points, just like Microsoft. People just need to wake up and realize this. Of course (I'm making a political jab here), the majority of the prick Mac users are liberal.

Funny enough, I'm off to the Apple Store right now to get my battery replaced because it is not doing its job correctly! Time to go argue with a Mac Genius!
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Old Mar 27, 2008, 02:24 AM   #39
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Macs are not just secure because of their limited install base. Unix-like operating systems have a much more sane security practices (i.e. users do not have admin privileges, PAM, security/auditing frameworks, etc) than Windows traditionally has (though Vista has arguably made a step in the right direction with UAC).

For me, Macs are nice because I get a polished GUI, commercial application support, and a BSD based userland all in one package. I hate doing development work under Windows, since the developer tools mostly suck (unless you like being hand-held by the IDE), the command line is a joke, and the performance sucks (this is pretty important, since my line of work and my studies revolve around complex mathematical simulations). It does not help that I constantly have to reformat it, runs shitloads of extra applications to keep my system from exponentially degrading, and put up with their stupid product activation every time I upgrade my hardware (though the slowness of Windows probably encourages me to update more than I should).

My favorite OS, FreeBSD, is an awesome development platform, but is truly lacking in commerical software. I can run most Linux applications using the Linux compatability libraries, but it is not as nice as having truly native support. It sucks when your copies of Mathematica and Matlab do not run as expected. Also, things people normally take for granted, such as Flash support, are a total pain in the ass on FreeBSD.

The Mac takes everything I like about FreeBSD and adds the things I am missing by not running Windows. For me, using a Mac instead of a Windows based PC is the obvious choice. The fact that I can run Windows is an added bonus, assuming that I am feeling a bit more masochistic than usual.

I am always suprised by the fervent support for Windows by so-called "computer enthusiasts." It seems to me that if one was really interested in tinkering with computers and software, they would run something that has a lot more flexibility and free, integrated development tools like Linux, BSD, or OSX. To me, throwing together a PC and slapping Windows on it does not seem much more advanced than using a Mac for day to day tasks. At least the Mac has the potential for some pretty awesome Unix hackery, which to me constitutes as pretty advanced usage.
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Old Mar 27, 2008, 07:43 AM   #40
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And that is one of the reasons Windows rules today over Linux. Most people do not want to tinker with or experiment or learn special commands to do most things, including say installing a piece of software.
Then it is the shitty attitude of many Linux users to newcomers. At least with Macs the other Mac users are friendlier with other Mac users. With Linux they look at "you" like you are a creature of a lower level.
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Old Mar 27, 2008, 08:19 AM   #41
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IMAC, IRAQ, IRAN, IPOD...etc.....
People will have expectations of their computers that will obviously sustain that niche in the market that Apple enjoys, besides, they look and run great.
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Old Mar 27, 2008, 04:28 PM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #42
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Of course (I'm making a political jab here), the majority of the prick Mac users are liberal.

I also like how you laid your opinion out!

I have to agree 100% about most Mac users are liberal. Why is this well it must have something to do with always needing to change or be rebellious etc.

Guess you can say Steve must equal Obama in power since both are treated like gods and every time they talk they seem to brain wash people left and right and its kind of funny, but in truth neither are that special lol.

Please don't turn this into a political war lol
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Old Mar 27, 2008, 10:08 PM   #43
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IMAC, IRAQ, IRAN, IPOD...etc.....
People will have expectations of their computers that will obviously sustain that niche in the market that Apple enjoys, besides, they look and run great.
iThink this iNtire iSsue iS ridculous!
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Old Mar 28, 2008, 12:29 AM   #44
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And that is one of the reasons Windows rules today over Linux. Most people do not want to tinker with or experiment or learn special commands to do most things, including say installing a piece of software.
Uh, that is why Ubuntu is being developed. I think they are doing a pretty good job of making Linux easy to use.

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Then it is the shitty attitude of many Linux users to newcomers. At least with Macs the other Mac users are friendlier with other Mac users. With Linux they look at "you" like you are a creature of a lower level.
I do not really get that vibe from Linux users. I know from personal experience that most BSD users are pretty friendly (assuming newcomers actually make an effort to search for the solutions or read the documentation, since answers are usually easy to find).
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Old Mar 28, 2008, 05:27 AM   #45
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Uh, that is why Ubuntu is being developed. I think they are doing a pretty good job of making Linux easy to use.


I do not really get that vibe from Linux users. I know from personal experience that most BSD users are pretty friendly (assuming newcomers actually make an effort to search for the solutions or read the documentation, since answers are usually easy to find).
Agreed on both counts. Ubuntu is a very nice linux distro which i recommend to any linux newbie.
Also, as long as you're not one of the helpless newbs who cry for help without first trying to help themselves, members of the open source community are usually very helpful.
For example:
Quote:
OMG I CANNOT GET OPENOFFICE TO COMPILE ON MY LINUX BOX0RZ! WHAT AM I DOING WRONG! HELP ME OR DIE!
This will not get you anywhere. It makes people less inclined to help and more inclined to treat you with disrespect and with a condescending attitude. But hey, it happens everywhere, even here once in a while.

On another note, I think it's funny that my MacBook Pro from 2006 is still better than the average laptop in retail chains nowadays.

EDIT
Just to clear something up from my previous comment: please note that I don't have some misconception that all liberals are pricks. A lot of my friends (whom I respect greatly) are fairly liberal and none of them are pricks. So please don't take offense to my comment. I was merely making fun.
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Old Mar 28, 2008, 08:50 AM   #46
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I quite liked using ubuntu but i wouldn't use it full time as a primary OS, couldn't seem to get my wireless USB reciever working with it :/
Free CD's from Ubuntu are a nice idea, even if they take forever to arrive lol
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Old Mar 28, 2008, 01:30 PM   #47
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i often saw linux noobs talks a lot about how he hates Windows and/or Microsoft (well they usually don't want to spell microsoft right), or why/how this linux (may be a distro name here) is better than Windows.
this usually when they introduce themselves to a linux community (ever wonder why.) and before they start asking questions. then ending with something like, please please help me i'm a linux noob (well they usually are very nice with the linux community.)
i never visit a Mac users communityís site, what about Mac community?
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Old Mar 28, 2008, 04:42 PM   #48
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i never visit a Mac users communityís site, what about Mac community?
Overall, I'd have to say Mac communities are typically not super-helpful. However, this does vary from forum to forum. I've seen some that were flooded with threads all with 0 replies, and I've seen some that actually had some decent feedback. The OSx86 (Mac OS X on non-Apple PC's) community as a whole is more helpful than the purely Mac community.
But this is mostly because a lot of posts on Mac community forums come from newbies who want to know if switching is right for them, how they should make the switch, what they're going to need, etc, etc, etc. Stuff they could easily just look up through a search.
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Old Mar 28, 2008, 07:44 PM   #49
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But this is mostly because a lot of posts on Mac community forums come from newbies who want to know if switching is right for them, how they should make the switch, what they're going to need, etc, etc, etc. Stuff they could easily just look up through a search.
so, in your experience those kinds of questions don't get answered often.
i think i can understand why as well. i assume those questions are easy to ask, but to answer them it takes quite a bit of many things, includes time. and not many people want to take the time to answer those kinds of questions.
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Old Mar 29, 2008, 03:28 AM   #50
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Funny thing though that when there are similar Windows' questions, people always get answers and it is extremely rare for someone to talk down to the "newbies".
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Old Mar 29, 2008, 07:08 AM   #51
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Funny thing though that when there are similar Windows' questions, people always get answers and it is extremely rare for someone to talk down to the "newbies".
well i don't want to compare the Unix-like OSes with Windows, but here (below) is what i think.
and i don't know about your bad experiences, but to say sorry to hear about that.

Windows is for everyone who wants to use a computer.
it is easy to fool a newbie user into thinking that he got the questions answered, a user who may be a novice user can be the one who answered the most complex question.
even under a certain power user it's an incorrectly answered question, however, most power users knows that in most of the time the answered will never be so incorrectly, because they knows the Windows is flexible enough.
in Windows, whether or not the power users are willing to participate in the conversation and answer the newbie questions, who cares, when a novice user can become an expert.

Unix-like OSes are for power users, so most of the questions are complex questions, which always seem to require the power users to answer their questions
and power users are not always willing to answer newbie questions. the OS is a favorite among power users.
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Old Mar 29, 2008, 07:36 AM   #52
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I agree, only that I would replace "power users" with another word that is not for this forum.
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This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm
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Old Mar 29, 2008, 07:51 AM   #53
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I agree, only that I would replace "power users" with another word that is not for this forum.
i'm not sure what you mean by that "I would replace "power users" with another word that is not for this forum"
but if you meant you don't like to see the words that i wrote there, then well what words should you use?
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Old Mar 29, 2008, 08:31 AM   #54
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Eh, I meant that I would substitute the words "power user" for something not nice.
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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm
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Old Mar 29, 2008, 08:52 AM   #55
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power users.... i just wanted to classify users. it means nothing really.

but you can be sure that the Windows is for everyone who wants to use a computer, it's meaning like that (to everyone).
and a novice user can become an expert, a newbie can become an expert in no time if he wants to.
and when every Windows users can become an expert (of cause, it's not in every ways), this could be main reason for you to see most of the questions gets answered.
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Old Apr 4, 2008, 12:10 AM   #56
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this is extremely bad news for apple in the professional environment.

Photoshop sheds 32-bit husk - The INQUIRER

" Adobe has announced itíll finally launch their 64-bit version of Photoshop. However, right now this will be solely for the Windows Vista platform, although the company confesses it should run on XP 64. The reason for letting Mac OS X fall behind is even more crow-flavoured: Apple hasnít provided the 64-bit tools to allow Adobe to develop their Carbon-based app. By prioritising 64-bit development tools for Cocoa over Carbon, Apple mustíve been aware it would affect the Adobe crowd. Considering you can buy DDR2 RAM at the price of bubble gum, filling up Windoze machines with 8GB (or more, depending on the mobo) should be worth every cent on Photoshop.
This will send Mac-ite masses reeling as their dreams of a high-def world digitally retouched on Apple Macs goes down the drain. Not to mention the Adobe development team thatís waiting for Apple to pull their thumbs out of their artwork."
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Old Apr 4, 2008, 12:13 AM   #57
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this is extremely bad news for apple in the professional environment.

Photoshop sheds 32-bit husk - The INQUIRER

" Adobe has announced itíll finally launch their 64-bit version of Photoshop. However, right now this will be solely for the Windows Vista platform, although the company confesses it should run on XP 64. The reason for letting Mac OS X fall behind is even more crow-flavoured: Apple hasnít provided the 64-bit tools to allow Adobe to develop their Carbon-based app. By prioritising 64-bit development tools for Cocoa over Carbon, Apple mustíve been aware it would affect the Adobe crowd. Considering you can buy DDR2 RAM at the price of bubble gum, filling up Windoze machines with 8GB (or more, depending on the mobo) should be worth every cent on Photoshop.
This will send Mac-ite masses reeling as their dreams of a high-def world digitally retouched on Apple Macs goes down the drain. Not to mention the Adobe development team thatís waiting for Apple to pull their thumbs out of their artwork."
Rofl, owned
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Old Apr 4, 2008, 02:09 AM   #58
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Ok, well now all we need is 64-bit flash support for Windows and I will be one happy camper. As far as Macs are concerned I do like the feeling of OSX but I just can't justify the price of a Mac to be able to use it on when you can build a PC much better for half the cost. Perhaps Apple should aid it's OSX to run in Windows rather the other way around then maybe they can take back some market share.... Until then I will stick to Windows and Linux.
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Old Apr 4, 2008, 11:43 AM   #59
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this is extremely bad news for apple in the professional environment.
that doesn't really surprise me tbh

Apple in general tend to expect people to do things the way they want to, rather than working to compromise w/ devs…
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You know, there's "off topic" and then there's so freakin' off topic it you gotta wear a straitjacket to join the conversation.
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Old Apr 5, 2008, 12:38 AM Threadstarter Thread Starter   #60
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that doesn't really surprise me tbh

Apple in general tend to expect people to do things the way they want to, rather than working to compromise w/ devsÖ

One day they will understand!

Steve and crew will have to open up if they really want success. Why limit yourself to just your workforce when many other companies would be willing to help you like so many do for the Windows platform.
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