TheAscension

As some of you may remember, I had an ongoing thread about my struggling Source frame rate issue with my old Athlon XP system. Well I finally decided to give up that fight and get a whole new system. So here I am with my new more powerful system and I’m still having issues. It’s not isolated to the Source engine but other games as well.

The problem is not frame rate anymore, but now it’s a kind of “stutter” (video and audio) or momentary frame loss. It has a very similar feeling to network lag and it only happens with movement in the map. Apparently it has something to do with single threaded games and multi-threaded processors, dual core vs. single core processors, power management, etc.

Much of this is explained in this thread from another forum:


http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic87680.html


That thread explains my problem to a “T” and gives solutions to the problem. However I’m running Vista x64 and all solutions are set-up for Windows XP and Server 2003. So the question is, has anyone with a dual core processor and Vista x64 run into this problem with games and fixed it?

I will note that I’ve looked into all the solutions listed:

• AMD X2 driver (only for Windows XP/Server 2003)
• AMD Optimizer (talked w/ AMD tech support and 64-bit OS not supported)
• MS hotfix (only for Windows XP)
• Changed “Affinity” to single-core processing (No improvement for me, but others with the same problem in Quake have used this as a fix)

Games tested: Counter Strike Source (problem), BF1942 (problem), UT2004 (OK)

temeteus82

First I edited your post since I couldn't read it at all... Try to avoid custom colors, since some of them aren't visible on some site themes.

I got dual core, Intel E6750. And I've played games like Prey, BF2 and HL2 without any those issues at all. Your problems sounds like they could be hard drive related. What hdd's you got in use?

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Judas

Vista includes the nessary dual/multi core solutions right out of the box. However you issue is somewhat unique because the systems i've ran... be it the first x2 3800/4400s up to the 5200-6000+'s, and while they all showed stuttering in games as you explained and setting the affinity, installing the dual core optimisers and such for xp would usually always resolve the problem.. in vista.. i've never had to do that.

This brings to mind that perhaps another program ... installed ... either background running on completely unaware.... is causing this.

OR maybe it's do to something else altogether... even Power related.


One thing i can suggest, try disabling/enabling Vsync both via the game and via the Control panel.

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TheAscension

That's weird, as you can see others are having the same issue. Maybe it's an AMD problem. Although, if you look around the same issue happens with Intel users, but they just use the Microsoft (power management)hotfix.

I'm using my 750GB SATAII HDD for the games. Both drives listed in my system specs are running. I did think it was HDD related at first but I noticed the access light doesn't come on when the stutter happens, plus if it was HDD related it would happen for all games. Wouldn't it?

Zardon

are you using an antivirus app?

TheAscension

Yes I'm running Avast Antivirus in the background at all times. However, I didn't have any trouble like this with my previous machine running the same app in the background and playing these games. Low frame rate - yes, stutter - no.

[hobo]eclipse

just glancing over your specs, the 3200 IGP cant be doing you justice. (could be wrong here) im betting a nice +\-100 USD GPU might help things out.

TheAscension

I get great frame rate in all tested games with the 3200 IGP, and I would think it especially wouldn't matter with a really old game like BF1942.

I will make sure vertical sync is off and turn off my antivirus and see what happens.

Judas

try turing vsync on though to....

generally i recommend running with it on all the time...

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Zardon

it wont be avast, thats one of the best antivirus apps out there. I was originally thinking the stuttering could be a process hogging app like mcafee. There have been reports of some Av apps causing issues with games.

This stuttering you are experiencing. Is it regular? can you time it? Hit control alt delete and check your processes, sort them by CPU time. check if anything is hogging CPU time on a timed basis.

I have to say im surprised that IGP card is giving you good framerates, ive no experience of that particular model but the few I have tried have been hideous. This might interest you http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews.php?reviewid=605

BlueMak

What's your soundcard?
Open dxdiag and reduce the acceleration under the Sound tab.

Also, have you by any chance disabled the pagefile virtual memory?

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

TheAscension

(Just got back to my computer, been buusssyyy) I will try both vsync on and off.

Yeah, Avast is great. I love it.

The stuttering is regular throughout the game. I will get in game and time it, but I can say that it seems somewhat irregular but frequent, like once every few seconds.

This IGP is the most amazing thing ever. I have to be honest I was sceptical, but I read great reviews on it and I can say they're all true. AMD has really done something incredible here. I get between 50 - 130 FPS in Counter Strike Source with this IGP and on average I get ~80. I don't know about the other AMD IGP chipset (790, 770) performance but my board has the SidePort DDR3 that I'm sure helps. Thanks for the link BTW.

I'm using the onboard Realtek ALC889A 7.1 audio.

I have disabled the pagefile...

Great questions, these are all very viable sources of my problem.

Mousey

Says here on the gigabyte site that the board has HD3200 graphics built in, are you using those or a seperate card in hybrid crossfire or something?
I would seriously consider upgrading that card, you can pick up a HD3850 or HD3870 now for $120ish and it powers through pretty much anything you throw at it. I get pretty much constant 60 FPS in CS:S with mine.

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BlueMak

Try these two please.
For the second one, enable it and set it on automatic.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

Judas

the realtek ALC889a is a damn good chip...

the HD3200 onboard IGP has indeed preformed quite serprisingly well for me to...

but the stuttering is still odd...

Turn your page file back on, it's a nessary feature, shouldn't be disabled imo.

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TheAscension

I checked out dxdiag and there was nothing in there about sound acceleration and I enabled the pagefile again and it didn't improve anything.

Pagefile enabled, no improvement.

I just updated my Catalyst drivers last night to the new 8.8 release. These just came out yesterday and from what I can tell last night, the stutter is nearly gone. However, it was very late and I need a little more time to try them out and fully verify if the stutter has been fixed. Wonder if it was something to do with the 8.7 release?

BTW, another thought. I read my mobo specs that the IGP memory frequency is 1066MHz (1333 OC) but I'm running the system memory at a downclocked 800MHz. Could there be some sort of memory frequency mismatch since the IGP uses a portion of the system RAM in addition to it's dedicated RAM?

BlueMak

Are you sure you have installed the official latest drivers for the sound card?

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

TheAscension

I tried to last night but the install package was taking forever to download so I let it run overnight. Alas, I am at work now so I cannot get the drivers installed until later tonight. I will post an updated ASAP.

Judas

yeah the latest realtek drivers could potentially give you a "change"... a big change if you haven't updated or used the latest for a long time.

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TheAscension

Installed the latest audio driver package from the Gigabyte website (1.97/8) and there was no improvement. I then got an even newer driver package from the Realtek website (2.02) and installed that as well. There was no gain after that install either.

Weird thing is that when I first installed the new AMD drivers it seemed like things got much better, but after testing further it's just as bad as before. One thing I'd like to try is to get a discrete video card and use that instead of the integrated. I would be curious to see if the IGP is the cause of this. Not that the IGP itself is the problem, but that (like I said in a previous post) there is a problem with the IGP and system RAM working together. I would be curious to overclock the CPU to 1066 so I could run the system RAM and IGP memory at their native speeds. Anyone see any problems with these ideas?

Another thought: I could also uninstall all AMD drivers, uninstall Realtek sound drivers, run driver cleaner, and reinstall the latest drivers from the start.

[hobo]eclipse

no, thats a good idea

btw, this stutter doesnt seem to manifest itself during the latter half of a bad game of CS:S?




sry, just messn

Judas

imo unless you absalutely need to.... don't bother ever going to the motherboard manufacturers website for drivers.

always go to http://www.realtek.com.tw/ and download the latest drivers from them directly.

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Ferret_Style

Are you running wireless when you are gaming? The reason i ask is that some wireless cards with older drivers have been known to do this same stuter in games online. I had this issue with WOW when Vista first came out... would pause for 1 second every 20 - 30 seconds. Turned out to the be auto discovery of vista on wireless.

Last idea... you might want to try and check the temps on your CPU and chipset while you game. It might be they are heating up toward the end of the game and causing down clocking to preserve temp.

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"You might be Eaten by a Grue" MC Frontalot!

shaman9876

I had the same problem. I had to update my wireless drivers direct from Intel and disable the auto tuning level on vista for it not to show local or other intermittent problems with wireless.

Must be done in a admin command shell.
netsh interface tcp set global autotuninglevel=disabled


if you try it, you can always change back with the command

netsh interface tcp set global autotuninglevel=normal

TheAscension

I'm not running wireless at all on this machine. However, interesting that you would mention that. I did have this problem two weeks ago on my old XP system with a wireless PCI card I had installed. The whole computer would lock up for a few seconds every 20-30 seconds as it was trying to find an AP and/or get and IP.

I have been running SpeedFan on this machine since I got it and the temps seem totally fine. In addition, the stuttering occurs immediately in game even when the system has been shut down and has cooled off, say overnight.

TheAscension

Judas, you have the 3200HD IGP too? If so, what system RAM speed are you running at? My most viable theory right now is that the IGP memory and system memory are running at different speeds and causing problems. Have you done any gaming with that IGP? My test game is BF1942 (loads fast) which gets the stutter constantly so it's a good indicator of my progress. Can you run any games of similar year and genera without problems?

Over at the Overclocking forum I found out that I cannot overclock my RAM to 1066 because the IMC in AM2 processors won't go above DDR800.

Judas

ATM i don't have it here right now.. but i did..

I was running PC6400 (800mhz) ... 2gb of it........ 2x1gb kit. (OCZ)

just generic value ram stuff...

the only things i ran on it though were lineageII... UT3 (lowest detail but surprisingly smooth), and a few other games here and there..

actually the family that picked this rig up is likely playing a number of "kiddy" games on it.. i think the oldest is 9 or 10 or something.... they didn't want anything powerful though at the time.. with the ability to pop in a more powerful card later on.

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TheAscension

Just swapped in a Radeon x700 PCIe vid card and amazingly I still have the stuttering problem when I run BF1942.

So the big question is: Is the problem from the CPU or RAM??

I'm seriously considering getting an AM2+ processor so I can run my RAM at full 1066 speed and see if that fixes it.

Any thoughts?

Judas

i can only say that it "MAY" solve your problem... it MAY be a Motherboard issue....

but at this point i'm not sure what it causing it.. you shouldn't be seeing such an issue (obviously)....

If you go for a newer cpu... and the stutter remains... then the only other option is swap motherboards and see if it remains.... but it's a weird thing.

you haven't had a BSOD/Crash of any type?

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TheAscension

Ok, I think I can safely say it's not a hardware issue.

1. swapped in an AM2+ Phenom (no improvement)
2. swapped in new 1066 RAM (no improvement)
3. Phenom + new 1066 RAM (no improvement)
4. swapped in new motherboard (same make and model) (no improvement)


At this point I can only think it may be an issue with these older games running in the Vista environment (let alone a 64-bit environment). It may also be DX10. Can I downgrade to DX9 with Vista?