Judas

I got to see the orginal samsung 120hz models... the first generation.. the aspects of the tech was nothing short of amazing. But i never got to experience it in it's full glory very long at all. At the time the tv's launched with an incredibly high price... now you can probably pick up those tv's for 1/6th what they sold for orginally.

However that was a few generations ago.

I recently got to sit down and play with a 6 and 7 series 40" Samsung LN40A650 (6 series) and LN40A750 (7 Series)

The differences between these 2 are pretty non excistant... the 7 series includes a usb hub as well as 1gb intergrated flash memory (which is preloaded with 1080p demo content and such that really shows off the tv, but can be erased for your own stuff) as well as a network port for apparently streaming media or other things across to it (6 and 7 have the network port). While the aspects of having that extra stuff on hand, IMO, alot of people aren't going to dish out the extra couple hundred dollars for them.

Now, The overall finish of the product is quite "sexay" in terms of the black smooth transition to a cherry redish appearance. It's a very nice touch, it definitely adds "dimension" to the product when it's not on, and when it is on, it give it a nice touch. The input placement is pretty much the standard location as the previous samsungs. Nothing much to add aside from making a note of the 4 HDMI ports and the slimmed down number of other inputs. VGA is obviously there, the TV is much more DVI-HDMI friendly though, so don't wanna use the vga, you shouldn't have a single hitch hooking up a converter cable or adapter and running hdmi from your computer. (at least i didn't.. and i've had a whole wack of problems previously).


I've got a Xbox360/Wii/Computer sitting here, the Computer has some HD-DVD and BR-DVD's on hand to play.

The Brightness of the screen is overall "comfortably high" Nothing looks washed out or over exposed. However due to my own personal preference, i disabled the Dynamic contrast ratio. (it annoys the hell outa me sometimes when making frequent jumps from dark to bright situations, specially playing games, but for TV viewing, it's pretty damn good).

The color reproduction is super, Comparing it to the BenQ G2400 24" widescreen as well as the Dell 3007WFP, the colors are not under or over saturated at the default settings. They are vibrant. I still think the Dell 3007WFP might have an "edge" on it... but the dell can't touch the samsung tv's in terms of the responce times as well as the 120hz advantage.

Switching from 60hz to 120hz is exceptional. Showing ANYTHING on these samsung tv's with 120hz mode, is like going from 15fps to 30fps in a game... or 30 to 60... well obviously doubling anything should show a noticeable difference. Even people i know that don't usually catch things like this noticed emediately.

Playing the Xbox 360 through the VGA adapter was picture perfect, 1080p was super sharp, super smooth.... just super. Geometry Wars 2 Couldn't be any more impressive in both detail and "oo look at the colours..... ima in love". Played a bunch of other games that just looked gourgous.

Playing back my most recent BR DVD "Stargate" For such an old film (94) it's one clean and crisp high def movie. I popped in a few others just to compare.... Shrek 3 on the HD-DVD was just insane for me, I thought it looked damn freaking good on the 3007WFP dell i've got, It looks just as good if not better due to the increased size of the screen (10 in difference) that officially won me over. I could see a bit more things, more details then i could on the upscaled 2560x1600 of the dell. First tv to do this.

I wouldn't mind checking ou the 3008 though... but at what the samsung 40" 6 and 7 series cost..... (which is almost the same depending on location)... i think at this point i'm likely to finally go true HDTV this year around.

Lastly the Wii, a 480p outputing component console. I seriously can't find any reason to give the wii any cons aside from the lack of true HD and 5.1 or better surround sound. Mind you Pro Logic II does well enough for the time being, it's just not the same. Anyways, using 480p on these tv's with the wii is pretty impressive, While i'm not 100% sure that the tv simply leaves it as is or tries to upscale it (i think it upscales.....??)..... it did definitely look WAY better, cleaner, better colors then trying to using a component to vga box attached to the benq monitor i've got here. WAY better. Not to mention the dimensions were "right" vs seeming a bit onf the sorta out of portions on the benq.

Sound on the tvs i just don't touch, they made clean enough audio to use as is, but seriously, i just disable the speakers almost emediately, i've already got a amp/speakers that are far better.

I would highly recommend either of these tvs. Obviously the 6 series makes more sense for most people. But alas the 7 series is there for those wanting the best.

The 6 series is significantly cheaper, also widely available, the 7 series however is hard to come by yet as they are quite new still.

And sorry i don't have a HD satalite/Cable box or any set top boxes. Nor do i have a upscaling DVD player (my computer is me main system of choice)

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Judas

well i went and splurged... bought the samsung 32" LN32A650 (6 series) and i may have it by this weekend.... the 32" sells for about 1300-1500 bucks

*pets the 40"* man i wish i could have you.. but at over 2400 bucks..... i can't


Taxes not included....

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kris23

ever try the DLP samsungs?

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Judas

yes i have...

i'll never touch DLPs...

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kris23

why not?

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Judas

because i know what can easily happen to them.. thier cons.. as well as thier size overall..

also what they do not perform well with to.

I'll stick with my LCD TVs.... and far AWAY from the DLPs..

the only time DLPs are better is for cheaper.... and so long as you've got a top end lcd.... the lcd wins imo

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kris23

what are the pros and cons?

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Judas

HowStuffWorks "How DLP Sets Work"

for starts on DLPs...

and while now extremely old.... a few valid points here

DLP vs LCD

Plus i've seen more DLPs in repair shops then LCD.... generally LCD tvs can take a beating..... DLPs not so much, and when something goes wrong with the DLP.. it usually isn't cheap...

Meanwhile LCD is usually good, only thing replaced is the bulb in the back... and that's a rare thing.

and 75,000 hours is a LONG bloody time..... that's 8.5 years roughly if the tv's were left on for 24 hours per day, 365 1/4 days a year for 8.5+ years. NOT a real concern.

Plus They haven't resolved Plasma Burn in for the plasma tvs.. but they have resolved and improved a considerable amount for LCDs... best yet.... with the new LED LCD tv's.... things just got brighter and darker (pure blacks and insane whites not to mention other super benefits.)

DLPs are good for if your on a extremely tight budget as they tend to produce a bit better picture then the same or cheaper LCD tvs.... however they generally can't win vs a high end LCD tv. Plasmas..... i'm not happy with plasmas at all....

LCDs also have one major benefit.... flicker free.... 100%..... the crystals make smooth transitions into the next shade or color. Plasmas don't... and DLPs do.....sorta....depending.

Either way thier weight, thier compact size.. they are generally the way to go imo if you want a damn good decent tv so long as you spend a decent respectable dollar on the tv.

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kris23

how about LED based DLPs? any advantages?

and one of those guides seems dated..... 50" LCD? were way past that now...

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Judas

yeah i mentioned it's dated.. but it still raises some good points..

LED vs Bulb type doesn't really matter. the rest of the mechanics still mostly apply....

I just am not going to touch it..

LCDs are more the excellent.... i mean if DLPs were realy a good solution, we'd be using it on our desktops to ..... but alas. plasma doesn't shrink all that well....

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Nurface

Judas, You have answered a lot of questions without me even posting. I really thought that was awesome post from you. I was debating on Samsung 550 or Samsung 650 until your post. I mostly considered Samsung 37 550 simply because it's bigger screen size. Now after reading your post I will have to compare 120 HZ tvs to Samsung although I may already know out come *Samsung*. I didn't want to go with 32 Samsung 650 and wish Samsung released 37in 650. I'm mostly going to use Tv for gaming with PC and NFL Direct Tv package so thought 40in TV 650 would be to big for hours of gaming.

Judas

Nurface.

Just a FYI

Some people DO NOT LIKE that 120hz feature (and alot of people get confused when they plug thier computer into the vga and there only output option is 60hz)... the reason being is that the 120hz feature is essentially that.... 120hz feature of the tv....

The picture quality is great... it's a considerable step up from the 550 series.

I've only had the 40" models here.... i'm still waiting on my 32"....

37-40 isn't that big of a jump though... But i find the 40" is almost to big for me when sitting at it like a normal monitor....

when i get this 32" here and setup at my house.. i'll fill in what i think of it.

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kris23

what if it was plugged in via HDMI?

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Judas

it doesn't matter if you use VGA or HDMI or DVI... it's 60hz.... or 59hz...

HDMI standards don't allow for anything above 60hz for it's signal frequency.


as i said.. the TV does the job of upconverting to 120hz

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Judas

more details on this now that i've had the TV at my house (i ended up getting the LN40A650 6 series 40" LCD HDTV.


Heres a few more facts considering what i've hooked up.


I've tried yet again to attach my computer to it via DVI-HDMI..... it just doesn't look at good, it's not "fitting" to the tv correctly, nothing wrong with the tv, just something i've yet to see work on the ATI cards via a DVI-HDMI connection, however using a pure HDMI card (ATI's HD3450 with HDMI output right outa the box) work perfectly.... so i'm not sure what's up, maybe it's my cable (i'm not using the provided HDMI dongle yet)

Either way, attached via VGA cable (DVI-VGA dongle)..

perfect picture


JUST A FYI, When using PC input, you CANNOT enabled or use the 120hz setting. HDMI/Component/Composite/AV modes however work 100%... and after fiddling, it's extremely nice while playing some games, the nintendo wii was utterly amazing.. both picture quality and everything... the 120hz just felt that much more fluent.

While in VGA mode, playing back a Blue Ray DVD via the computer, it looked noticeably better.

NOW more for the picture quality, i've yet to see any tv that you can comfortably view at a pretty steap angle. However when you get about 45 degrees either way, the image becomes a little bit lighter, and the further you go, the brighter it gets. The overall angle however proves to be one of the most superior angel view tv's i've had seen. (it's only extremely noticeably lighter when view a nearly black image and moving beyond the 45 degree marks..)

Blacks...

pure.. that is all i have to say.... again like that short time i had previously to play with the 650 and 750 40" models .. (both of which perform identically, just a few extras for the 750 model).. i'm extremely impressed.


I recall reading a few reviews where some were extremely picky about the gui layout.... frankly it's one of the easiest to navigate through, don't know wtf those idiots were jumping at samsung and giving it a low score for. Another complaint i saw which i would put down as a "EPIC FAIL REVIEWER" is the red tinge on the tv's..

Seriously, only in extremely bright rooms, you wouldn't even notice the red on the edges... and that's if you didn't know what your were looking for.... it's not like it's hot red or even a maroon.. it's basically black...... black red... lol..

Reflections off the tv's glossy screen are moot, they simply don't excist unless you've got it setup in such a manner that every window and light is being cast onto it....

I've a fairly large 5x4 foot window that allows for a considerably amount of light roughly 6 feet from the screen.... only time i even glimps a hint of the reflection of that window is when the tv go to a completely BLACK nearly OFF looking screen and it's extremely faint.

Uniform lightning.. not light or dark zones anywhere... 100% excellent color reproduction..

Right now i'm on this tv typing out this post, and the 1920x1080 resolution, font and text is crisp, clear, and relatively larger then the 24" BenQ monitor i had at one point before.


However it's somewhat unfortunate that i cannot set the Optical Digital audio OUT from the tv to "passthrough".... this isn't big... but it's unfortuneate due to wanting my xbox360 via HDMI to passthrough the tv to the logitech z-5500 via optical. Instead i end up with a pure stereo mode, at which point i can set to pro logic II.....

However considering, with the Wii pluged in using component video and standard stereo direct into the tv... the TV is correctly, turning it into a pure stereo digital output which yet again is modifiable into a pro logic II surround sound format.

I just need to get the correct xbox360 HDMI kit so i can plug in the audio adapter and hdmi cable at the same time, allowing me to output fiber optic to the z-5500 for surround sound.

And ONE last thing.

Playing more with the built in weather/stock/news etc on the tv via the network port for internet..... unfortunately it only applies to those that LIVE in the U.S. it requires a ZIP code to properly pull the information for your area.... so us Postal Coders are toast... or anyone else around the world unless you get one made specifically for your area. (worth checking if your interested in those features)

I'll be using this for several weeks most likely, depends if someone wants to buy it soon.

Current pricetag on the LN40A650 is $2500 (retail)

The LN52A650 retail is $3600

the LN52A750 retail is $4200

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Judas

oh and one last note...

The last time i used 40" for my main computer monitor... was quite awhile ago.. and was 720p at the time. (1360x768)...... which i thought was WAY to freaking big.

However been using this for about 6 hours now..

With the higher resolution.... is weird that is fills much more confortable.

I'm sitting roughly 2 and a half maybe 3 feet from dead center of the screen (distance from screen to eye guestimate)

I think 52" would definitely be pushing it lol... but my computer desk is now officially "to small" for even this 40".....

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Judas

been a few days now..

everytime i pop in a BR dvd and watch i'm simply stunned...

i think it's all in my head but whatever.. i'll say it anyways, Even though nothing is coming from the tv sound wise, my Z-5500 "sounds Better"

Anyways


I've been playing a few games via the xbox360 HDMI, with 120hz mode set to medium. Simply amazing vs without.

Enabling 120hz mode can produce "artifacts" that are essentially from "inaccurate perdictions". For example if the ball makes a fast motion from the top left to the bottom right, and in only 2 frames, the tv will add in another frame between that'll provide the visual ball being in the center before the next frame showing it in the bottom right.

However the artifacting can occur when this said ball say suddenly STOPS before it even gets to the center, at which point in the the frame put inbetween will try to predict that the ball is going for the center. It won't produce a huge amount of any actual noticeable artifacting.. it's like a "blurred movement" It's like turning on the blurring on UT3 and setting it to the lowest possible value so it only gives you that smoother transition.

And it isn't so much a blur, and it only occurs where it's noticeable when making insanely useless movements, for example in Gears of War, pushing and holding the turn button so that you spin so fast, your character is flipping out, at which point you'll see a few pixels of the characters edges kinda shift around, meanwhile the framerate is CLEARLY better then running in standard 60hz mode.

Even some of the cimatic sequences where running 1920x1080 causes the xbox360 to hicup through a few of them, giving a pretty bad stuttering feeling in 60hz mode... are mostly improved if not resolved in specific scenes when running 120hz mode.

Some games/Applications "don't" exactly show any real difference, this being instances where the game simply doesn't have any fast motion... but it's still noticeable better when speed picks up, the framerate looks 60fps instead of 30fps, which by anyone playing games on the computer will instantly realize that it's a pretty decent improvement.

The more i toy with the tv the more i'm thinking "This was a worthwhile investment...."

I'm still using the default predefined settings on the tv and i cannot, complain at all, about the brightness or color. It's simply excellent.

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Just Learnin'

This model is on sale right now at Futureshop Judas for $2999.99 installed with a free Samsung Blu-ray player sounds tempting. Think it is worth it?

Judas

i'd jump at it... considering my cost alone is WAY more then that.. AT wholesale price...

you sure it's a LN52A750 and not a LN52A650..

MAKE sure it's the right model as the 650 model is considerably cheaper then the 750 (go figure even though they are pretty much 100% identical)

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Just Learnin'

Future Shop: TV & Video: 50" & Larger TVs: Samsung 52" 1080p 120Hz Flat-Panel LCD HDTV** (LN52A750) - Future Shop Exclusive

The local flyer also gives a Samsung Blu-Ray player with it for that price on in store purchase. This one: Future Shop: TV & Video: Blu-ray Players: Samsung Blu-ray Disc Player (BDP1500)

Judas

nice


atm i've got a Yamaha RX-V3900 Amplifier on the way.

RX-V3900

i asked futureshop if they would stock either the 3800 or 3900.... they didn't have an answer....aside from (only what's on the shelf, we can't ask for anything... it's just what head office sends us)

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e v o

I bought the LN46A650 in June and couldn't be happier with it as my first LCD TV. I got it from Amazon and continue to be amazed by their service. First, they have a white glove service so they bring it in and make sure it works and for whatever reason if you don't want it you can send it back at that moment. The other was that Amazon pays you the difference if the price drops within 30 days. So I got it for around $1700, getting around ~$100 back.

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Judas

wow... 1700 bucks..... for the 46?

my wholesale cost on the 40 is considerably higher

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Zardon

Dell 3008wfp (A02) is probably the best computer screen available imo.

Judas

they've fixed the issues with the previous?

good to hear.

Today i JUST sold my last 30" dell monitor.... phew... that last one took long enough.

Don't tempted me with the 3008........ i've already the 40" Samsung sitting at home... Bad enough i'm considering exchanging it for the 52".

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Judas

Figured i'd throw up a picture i took using a "no flash" non tripod Canon G7 Digital camera using a notch below full optical zoom from a distance of roughly 8 feet from the tv in a almost NEARLY completely black room... (only lights are from the computer which use blue led and on the other side of the computer the dull yellow/orange glow of a external hardrive.. but otherwise.. every light turned off..)




gonna try post more... these images were orginally 38nnX21nn or something... shrunk it down for a little easier forum viewing.. but it kinda sucks taking stills of the movie cause it doesn't do justive for the tv due to blurring/focus of the camera at the time plus blurring on the Blue Ray DVD....

I think the "blacks" are exceptionally plus the black borders around the top and bottom of the screen is pretty much indistinguishable from the black borders of the actual tv.....




sorry currently using ms paint to open the jpegs and then resize using a percentage and then resave as jpeg.... not the greatest...

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Judas

ok gotta add something..

this 120hz deal only shows it's true potential when using HDMI/Component or basically any other sources EXCEPT VGA.... which is really unfortunate..

What sucks is with any video card i've had on hand, i simply cannot for the life of me get a decent picture using an hdmi cable.. i'ver never gotten a single tv to show crisp clean text or anything with one... which is really unfortunate....

So i've been playing with a wii with component cables, and a xbox360 via hdmi..

heres the deal, i've already mentioned the nice effects of 120hz with those 2 systems...... now a twist.

DVD/HD/BR playback or generally any form of video playback via these connections is simply astounding...... it's almost to "real".... the frame rate looks like it takes a full leap resulting in a much much sharper image durring fast motion zones of video.... the accuracy is excellent using medium..... There are places where it just simply jaw dropping when using it.... using the xbox's hdmi and hd-dvd drive..... playing back some of the HD movies is "Like i'm watching a completely different movie" via my orginal doubtful sister and father. My father having horrible eyesight to begin with DID noticed a pretty considerable change.

Either way, it's a much see to truly understand it.

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