IvanV

I was given the task of choosing components for a new workstation that the company is going to buy for my father which will mostly be used for work with AutoCAD.

The main question is the choice of graphics card. How much benefit do professional cards bring? The choice is fairly limited here, so it would most likely be Quadro FX 1700. If the benefit from having a pro card is not too great, then I guess that something like an ATI 4830/4770 would be a no-brainer.

Other than that, how much does CAD benefit from multiprocessing? If it does, then I suppose that things aren't very complicated: Core i7 920, an X58 board, 3x2GB RAM (for Vista x64 and 64-bit version of AutoCAD 2009) and a large monitor should be about right?

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kris23

CAD drawings do not benefit from multi-processing too much but if he renders what he draws.... then a beefy Quad from AMD would work nicely with a good GPU from the 4800 series...

since the company is buying this..... i say go nuts lol

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lepel

Dunno if that's a wise advice in an economic crisis... or in any situation.

I read about softmodding some mainstream gpu's to workstation gpu's but that was a long while back. The huge benefit was the cost obviously.

I use Autocad on my system, but not heavily (yet), and I don't have any real issues. I think that as long that you keep the specs semi-powerful you'll be alright.

kris23

haha that was a joke more than anything.....

yea with AutoCAD usually line drawings barely take up any resources but the rendering takes quite a bit of performance.

i suggest a large monitor with a ton of real estate...... 1920x1200 to 2560x1600 i know that a larger monitor helps out alot

Costco - Dell 3007WFP-HC 30" Wide DVI 12ms 1000:1 2560x1600 WQXGA Monitor

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lepel

Yeah a big monitor or two is a must. If you take two make sure the card can output it, but shouldn't be an issue on high end cards.

Kris lol I kind of suspected you were.

OldBuzzard

I looked at AutoCAD's system requirements for 3D rendering and noticed this for the video card:

Now that really isn't a very high requirement. Even though they specify a "workstation class graaphics card", given how low the spec actually is, I'm betting that something like a 4870 or 4890 would be more than enough even though they aren 'workstation class'. Also note, that they talk about Direct3D and make no mention of OGL. The main reason for workstation cards is better OGL performance, not D3D.

They do mention dual core processors, so it must support multi core.

I'd propose a system something like this:

Case: Has a lot of room, good cooling, and has a very classy look.
Newegg.com - COOLER MASTER ATCS 840 RC-840-KKN1-GP Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Computer Cases

PSU: Nobody makes them better, and enough power for almost anything you may want to put into the case.
Newegg.com - CORSAIR CMPSU-750HX 750W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply - Power Supplies

Main Board: Very solid and reliable. Not necessarily a 'enthusiast', or 'overclocker's' board, but good performance.
Newegg.com - ASRock AOD790GX/128M AM2+/AM2 AMD 790GX ATX AMD Motherboard - AMD Motherboards

CPU: Quad core, fast. If not overclocking, the stock, heat piped HSF is perfectly adaquate.
Newegg.com - AMD Phenom II X4 940 Deneb 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Black Edition Processor - Processors - Desktops

Memory (2 of these for 8GB total): Corsair memory just always works. But, if you do have a problem, nobody beats Corsair's custtomer service, no one.
Newegg.com - CORSAIR XMS2 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X4096-8500C5C G - Desktop Memory

Keyboard/mouse: Logitech without question, especially in a business setting. I use this one, and he will appreciate the extra buttons on the mouse. Expecially if he gets an application called uberOptions (freeby the way), that adds more options for button assignment than Setpoint does. Ignore what Newegg says, it's BLUETOOTH, and not USB.
Newegg.com - Logitech MX 5500 Revolution Black USB Cordless Desktop Standard keyboard & Mouse Kit - Keyboards



All of the above would be 896.93 before shipping, which isn't a whole lot considering the performance.

There is a COMBO Discoune available on the CPU and Case which would save 55.00, which would make the total 841.93
Newegg.com - Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, Digital Cameras and more!

The video card is the only thing left, and personally, I would go for a 4890. I's faster than a 4870, but not as fast as the 4870 X2.

This one has good QUIET cooling, 2GB memory which may be good for rendering at 249.99
Newegg.com - SAPPHIRE Vapor-X 100269-2GVXL Radeon HD 4890 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Desktop Graphics / Video Cards

If you think that a 4870 would be enough, here is a 2GB with the same cooling as above for 194.99
Newegg.com - SAPPHIRE Vapor-X Radeon HD 4870 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Desktop Graphics / Video Cards

And, for a 4870 X2, which is most like overkill, and is not going to be as quiet as the other two and is 359.99
Newegg.com - SAPPHIRE 100251SR Radeon HD 4870 X2 2GB 512-bit (256-bit x 2) GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Desktop Graphics / Video Cards

So, without monitor(s), which Kris has covered, you would be looking at $1,036.92 - 1,201.92

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Mousey

Wouldn't it be a better idea to buy one of the FireGL or Quadro FX Cards?
From what i've seen in benchmarks they outperform most 3D GPUs when it
comes to rendering and optimising certain applications such as 3DSMax and
AutoCAD. could be worth a look?

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OldBuzzard

Maybe, but from looking at what AutoCAD has on their website for requirements, I'm thinking that a higher end standard vid card would do the job, and be a hell of a lot cheaper.

A high end workstation card will hurt your wallet...a LOT:

The only DX 10 workstation by ATI:
Newegg.com - ATI 100-505520 FireGL V8650 2GB PCI Express x16 Workstation Video Card - Workstation Graphics / Video Cards
JUST $2,249.99

EDIT:

I just went to the AutoCAD "Graphics Hardware List" page, searched for all TESTED 4800 series cards, and they are OKed.
This is the result:
Autodesk - AutoCAD Services & Support - Graphics Hardware List

Further edit:

Good discussion on video cards on the AutoCAD forum. What's interesting is that AutoCAD does NOT use OGL in Vista!
Autodesk: Discussion Groups - Best Graphics Card for ACAD software

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IvanV

Thank you all, people, especially you, Buzzard.

I inquired a little about the typical use scenario. My father works in a civil engineering company specialized in land amelioration (building and maintaining canals and such). A file may contain a couple of hundred thousand vector objects (points), sometimes drawn over raster backgrounds of aerophotogrammetric images. Panning is slow, when copying, making a selection is slow (you can observe points gradually becoming selected) and there is also a pause when the application is told to "Copy" the selection (not so much when it's pasted). What component does that point at? Swapping is not the issue. His current PC at work has some Core 2 Duo processor and 2GB RAM.

Anyway, the company has received some money from the city (which more or less owns it) to buy some new kit and I can go moderately wild. Having seen what is available from the local retailers, this is the build I was planning:

CPU: Intel Core i7 920
MoBo: MSI X58 Pro
RAM 3x2GB Patriot DDR3 1600MHz Cl9
GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4890
HDD: 2xHitachi Deskstar 500GB 16MB cache (RAID 1)
Blu Ray: LG GGC-H20L
case: Cooler Master Centurion 590
PSU: Chieftec CFT-600-14C (600W)
OS: Vista Business x64

EDIT: I'm yet to see about the monitor, but that Dell is 2000e around here and he won't be getting it.

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If anyone has Portal 2 and hasn't played the co-op and wants to do me a favour, let me know (PM me or whatever).

PH3N0M

If I were you, I'd ditch the Blu-Ray drive. What could you possibly need that for? Unless you're going to be watching bluray movies on it, it's an unnecessary expense. Secondly, why purchase 500gb drives when you can get a couple of the Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB drives in the neighborhood of $100. As for your PSU, I've never heard of it but if I were you, I'd opt for a Corsair 650-750w PSU.

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OldBuzzard

PH3N0M is right, no real need for the Blu-Ray. Use the money saved to go with a Corsair 620HX or 750HX. The PSU is the most important part of ANY build, and you want the best that you can get.

That Cooler Master case is a good one. However, I would prefer the Dominator 690 instead. Installing the HDDs is going to be a lot easier with it, and it leaves more clearance between the vid card and the HDDs.

Speaking of HDDs, PH3N0M is right on that too. Get the largest capacity HDDs that the budget allows. You can NEVER have too much HDD space. There are 1.5 TB drives now that are in the $130.00 US range.

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When looking for a reason as to why things go wrong, never rule out sheer STUPIDITY

IvanV

Thanks for the feedback, guys. The observations you've made coincide with my original ideas to a good extent, but since my dad will have the final say I made the list after consulting him. He wanted the Blu-Ray after he saw how much the price had come down thinking that it was bound to come in handy at some point, yet he said that 500GB will be fine (I was shooting for at least 750).

My biggest problem, though, will be convincing him that he needs a large monitor. Things have improved over the last few years, but generally the situation here hasn't been great since around 1990, so he's used to getting by with what he's got and his attitude on the issue was "I'll be happy if the machine can chew through the load smoothly. The monitor? It's not important, I can pan and zoom a little.", and even I know how fundamentally wrong that is for his line of work. I've got my eye on some 26" models and I'll try to make sure he gets something like that (he originally wanted 22", which is bigger then what he's got now, but I think he'll be glad he went for something larger).

I'll tell him what you guys had to say and we'll see.

P.S. The PSU manufacturer is fairly renown in these parts and a couple of models from the same series, which were all built upon the same platform, received a fairly positive review here, so I believe that the PSU I chose would do well, but I'm considering OCZ as well.

__________________
If anyone has Portal 2 and hasn't played the co-op and wants to do me a favour, let me know (PM me or whatever).

kris23

the Chieftec PSU is fine but the OCZ isnt....... the OCZ have rather high failure rates so id go with a PC Power and Cooling (Ironically also OCZ but higher quality) before one of those....

Corsair is great too but i noticed PC Power and Cooling PSUs to be some of the cheapest top quality PSUs on the market, go with Corsair HX series if you think you would need modular cables..... but the Chieftec PSU already has them so you're set!

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IvanV

Thanks for the tip.

The specs have been taken for approval and now it's wait and see if he gets what he wants.

I thank you all once again for your assistence.

__________________
If anyone has Portal 2 and hasn't played the co-op and wants to do me a favour, let me know (PM me or whatever).