What wattage PSU to use for this system?

Rayder · Aug 26, 2009, 04:25 PM

Asus P5Q (one is a -E and the other is a -SE+)
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6700
Asus Radeon 4670
Blu-Ray reader/DVD burner drive.
2 to 4 gigs RAM
Win Vista Home Premium 32bit
Haupauge dual-tuner TV card. PCI-Express
3 SATA harddrives (2-terrabyte drives, 1-512 drive)
Moncaso case with 7" touchscreen display

No overclocking, all running at spec speeds.

We've tried a brand new BFG 750watt PSU 4 rail....wouldn't even turn the system over. Brief power flash, then nothing.
Then we tried an Antec 650. The system fired right up and worked for about 5 months. It was playing games, recording shows and generally running fine as our HD media center PC. But one day I was playing a game and the system just froze, no screen corruption, no warning signs, just a screeching freeze that made me have to power down by the power button on the case. Now it's back to failing to power up.
Occasionally, it does power up, you hear all the hard drives spin up, but we get no video, no post beep, nothing. Every once in a blue-moon, we WILL get video, and I even got all the way to desktop once before it froze. But usually, it's the no power-up at all, or powers-up but no video.

So then, we bought another motherboard, a more basic scaled-back one that shouldn't have as high of power requirements. We get the same results.

So far, we've tried 2 different PSU's and 2 different motherboards and pretty much get the same results on both. I figure it HAS to be the PSU since the 5 months of time it did work, everything was great. I figure I can rule out the vid card since it worked awesomely during those 5 months the system was running and the problem we're experiencing happened BEFORE the 5 month run of the system as well as after.

At no time did we ever feel anything on the rig that felt too hot.

My brother has done tests on the PSU's and they SEEM to be fine by his tests. I'm guessing it's just a case of not enough wattage for the PC to fire up.

Unfortunately, since we were on old-tech with all our other PC's, we don't have any way of testing various components from the Intel rig on anything else, nor do we have any desire to dig into working systems just to test things like PSU's in other systems.

It figures that our first venture into Intel CPU's in many years is annoying us so much. Before this, we were still running AGP video and single-core Athlons. We've built dozens of AMD systems without a problem, but this Intel rig is really giving us a case of red-ass, and at this point, I can't even blame Vista for this.

So, are we low-balling it on power or missing something critical that we don't realize about Intel setups or what? Please help! The sledgehammer is looking mighty shiny.....

Zardon · Aug 26, 2009, 04:57 PM

Actually a BFG 750W will power a much higher specification system than the one you are running so I wouldnt say it was that causing the issue, unless of course the PSU is/was damaged or faulty. It is very often down to quality of the power rather than just a high number, believe me.

I tried following your wording but im a bit lost.

What other PSU did you try - was that the antec you mentioned? are you sure there isnt a short - something touching the motherboard that shouldnt? have you tried another CPU?

My suggestion is to rebuild the system - check nothing could be shorting, take out all the ram but one stick. try another cpu if you can (even a cheap ass dual core second hand). cut the install down to even onboard graphics if you can, single HD. take it from there.

Troubleshooting an issue always follows a basic principle. simplify, simplify, simplify. If you can get it down to a bare bones build, get it posting then build it up step by step its normally easier to see the issue once it is introduced.

OldBuzzard · Aug 26, 2009, 05:35 PM

Since the ORIGINAL setup worked for 5 months with the 650W PSU w/o a problem, I'm betting that that:
A. The BFG 750 was a defective unit, and you should have RMAed it for a new one. Like Z said, that is MORE than enough PSU for your system.

B. The Antec 650 is an older PSU which has degraded in performance over time, and just doesn't have enough AMPS on the +12v rail(s) now to power your video card.

The first thing you should do is contact BFG. If that PSU is still under warranty they should replace it. EVERY company has the occasional 'bad' unit and that's why they have warranties.

IF, for some reason you can't, or don't want to RMA the BFG, and want a different maker's PSU, I'd suggest a Corsair PSU. Known quality and excellent support should you ever need it. A Corsair 620HX, or 650TX should be more than enough for your system (note my system specs), and if you would like a bit more 'cushion', then the 750TX or 750HX would definately power your current system with more than enough capacity for any future upgrade(s).

Rayder · Aug 26, 2009, 06:03 PM

Most components are beyond their warranty dates as we were slow gathering the components to build the system.

Yeah, the Antec was the other PSU tried besides the 750. The Antec was the PSU that gave us 5 months of use. When it locked while playing the game, everything seemed fine, then it just froze and I heard a sound that sounded almost like a 56k modem, but higher pitched. Then back to fail to power-up, or power-up drives, but no video or other activity.

My bro has went over the rig many, many times trying to make sure there are no shorts or grounding issues. I'm sure in the hours he's spent rebuilding the rig with a new motherboard even, that it should just fire up.

Unfortunately, we don't have any other CPU's to try....we were both laid-off from work and I'm just starting back to work this week, so money is tight.

SYSTEM UPDATE: As I was typing this message, he tried removing the RAM down to one stick and it fired up.....we may be on to something here......he's up to 2gig and it fired up.....3gigs, fired up....it's using the original 750 watt PSU and the scaled-back motherbaord......put in the 4th gig of RAM....FAIL.....went back to 3gig and put in the stick assumed to be bad...FAIL......removed bad RAM and it fires up on the other 3gigs So it looks like it was a RAM issue. Vista will run fine on 3gigs, won't it?

Thanks for all the help guys! I don't know why we didn't think of trying the RAM in the first place. We wasted many months trying to fix this without bothering anyone about it. Should have asked for help ages ago.

+REP for both of you!

Final update: Even though it has a different motherboard from the original setup, it still booted to Windows, LOL! I have to install a slightly different audio driver, but it looks like it just back up and running. YAY!

Zardon · Aug 26, 2009, 06:06 PM

great news. make a bootable ISO with this Memtest86+ - Advanced Memory Diagnostic Tool

put in one stick and test on startup with the CD/DVD drive as first boot option. let it run a test on each stick. It is either a faulty module or a bad mobo slot. if you test each stick individually in the first 100% working slot then you will see if one of them is faulty. if they all pass, then its the 4th slot on the mobo. (you already pretty much confirmed this as being a bad stick of ram but good to do a double check as to the specific error etc).

procupine14 · Aug 26, 2009, 09:50 PM

Not to mention that if its a bad fourth memory slot in the motherboard that would be a relatively cheap solution to getting 4GB of RAM in there again. If you want to and have the funds, its pretty common to find some decent DDR2 RAM in a 2x2GB setup for under $60. I just picked up a 2x2GB Crucial Ballitix kit for $47. It would most likely be a cheaper solution than buying a new mobo and you could use the dual channel pair that excludes the bad slot. That might help if one stick of the RAM is bad as well either way I'm just throwing in my two cents!

Aug 26, 2009, 04:25 PM	#1
Rayder Mostly lurking lately.... Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 2,161 Rep Power: 73	What wattage PSU to use for this system? Asus P5Q (one is a -E and the other is a -SE+) Intel Core 2 Quad Q6700 Asus Radeon 4670 Blu-Ray reader/DVD burner drive. 2 to 4 gigs RAM Win Vista Home Premium 32bit Haupauge dual-tuner TV card. PCI-Express 3 SATA harddrives (2-terrabyte drives, 1-512 drive) Moncaso case with 7" touchscreen display No overclocking, all running at spec speeds. We've tried a brand new BFG 750watt PSU 4 rail....wouldn't even turn the system over. Brief power flash, then nothing. Then we tried an Antec 650. The system fired right up and worked for about 5 months. It was playing games, recording shows and generally running fine as our HD media center PC. But one day I was playing a game and the system just froze, no screen corruption, no warning signs, just a screeching freeze that made me have to power down by the power button on the case. Now it's back to failing to power up. Occasionally, it does power up, you hear all the hard drives spin up, but we get no video, no post beep, nothing. Every once in a blue-moon, we WILL get video, and I even got all the way to desktop once before it froze. But usually, it's the no power-up at all, or powers-up but no video. So then, we bought another motherboard, a more basic scaled-back one that shouldn't have as high of power requirements. We get the same results. So far, we've tried 2 different PSU's and 2 different motherboards and pretty much get the same results on both. I figure it HAS to be the PSU since the 5 months of time it did work, everything was great. I figure I can rule out the vid card since it worked awesomely during those 5 months the system was running and the problem we're experiencing happened BEFORE the 5 month run of the system as well as after. At no time did we ever feel anything on the rig that felt too hot. My brother has done tests on the PSU's and they SEEM to be fine by his tests. I'm guessing it's just a case of not enough wattage for the PC to fire up. Unfortunately, since we were on old-tech with all our other PC's, we don't have any way of testing various components from the Intel rig on anything else, nor do we have any desire to dig into working systems just to test things like PSU's in other systems. It figures that our first venture into Intel CPU's in many years is annoying us so much. Before this, we were still running AGP video and single-core Athlons. We've built dozens of AMD systems without a problem, but this Intel rig is really giving us a case of red-ass, and at this point, I can't even blame Vista for this. So, are we low-balling it on power or missing something critical that we don't realize about Intel setups or what? Please help! The sledgehammer is looking mighty shiny.....

Aug 26, 2009, 04:57 PM	#2
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	Re: What wattage PSU to use for this system? Actually a BFG 750W will power a much higher specification system than the one you are running so I wouldnt say it was that causing the issue, unless of course the PSU is/was damaged or faulty. It is very often down to quality of the power rather than just a high number, believe me. I tried following your wording but im a bit lost. What other PSU did you try - was that the antec you mentioned? are you sure there isnt a short - something touching the motherboard that shouldnt? have you tried another CPU? My suggestion is to rebuild the system - check nothing could be shorting, take out all the ram but one stick. try another cpu if you can (even a cheap ass dual core second hand). cut the install down to even onboard graphics if you can, single HD. take it from there. Troubleshooting an issue always follows a basic principle. simplify, simplify, simplify. If you can get it down to a bare bones build, get it posting then build it up step by step its normally easier to see the issue once it is introduced.

Aug 26, 2009, 05:35 PM	#3
OldBuzzard DH's oldest Geek Join Date: May 2003 Location: Oberlin, OH Posts: 2,781 Rep Power: 142 System Specs	Re: What wattage PSU to use for this system? Since the ORIGINAL setup worked for 5 months with the 650W PSU w/o a problem, I'm betting that that: A. The BFG 750 was a defective unit, and you should have RMAed it for a new one. Like Z said, that is MORE than enough PSU for your system. B. The Antec 650 is an older PSU which has degraded in performance over time, and just doesn't have enough AMPS on the +12v rail(s) now to power your video card. The first thing you should do is contact BFG. If that PSU is still under warranty they should replace it. EVERY company has the occasional 'bad' unit and that's why they have warranties. IF, for some reason you can't, or don't want to RMA the BFG, and want a different maker's PSU, I'd suggest a Corsair PSU. Known quality and excellent support should you ever need it. A Corsair 620HX, or 650TX should be more than enough for your system (note my system specs), and if you would like a bit more 'cushion', then the 750TX or 750HX would definately power your current system with more than enough capacity for any future upgrade(s). __________________ When looking for a reason as to why things go wrong, never rule out sheer STUPIDITY

Aug 26, 2009, 06:03 PM	Thread Starter #4
Rayder Mostly lurking lately.... Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 2,161 Rep Power: 73	Re: What wattage PSU to use for this system? Most components are beyond their warranty dates as we were slow gathering the components to build the system. Yeah, the Antec was the other PSU tried besides the 750. The Antec was the PSU that gave us 5 months of use. When it locked while playing the game, everything seemed fine, then it just froze and I heard a sound that sounded almost like a 56k modem, but higher pitched. Then back to fail to power-up, or power-up drives, but no video or other activity. My bro has went over the rig many, many times trying to make sure there are no shorts or grounding issues. I'm sure in the hours he's spent rebuilding the rig with a new motherboard even, that it should just fire up. Unfortunately, we don't have any other CPU's to try....we were both laid-off from work and I'm just starting back to work this week, so money is tight. SYSTEM UPDATE: As I was typing this message, he tried removing the RAM down to one stick and it fired up.....we may be on to something here......he's up to 2gig and it fired up.....3gigs, fired up....it's using the original 750 watt PSU and the scaled-back motherbaord......put in the 4th gig of RAM....FAIL.....went back to 3gig and put in the stick assumed to be bad...FAIL......removed bad RAM and it fires up on the other 3gigs So it looks like it was a RAM issue. Vista will run fine on 3gigs, won't it? Thanks for all the help guys! I don't know why we didn't think of trying the RAM in the first place. We wasted many months trying to fix this without bothering anyone about it. Should have asked for help ages ago. +REP for both of you! Final update: Even though it has a different motherboard from the original setup, it still booted to Windows, LOL! I have to install a slightly different audio driver, but it looks like it just back up and running. YAY! Last edited by Rayder; Aug 26, 2009 at 06:16 PM.

Aug 26, 2009, 06:06 PM	#5
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	Re: What wattage PSU to use for this system? great news. make a bootable ISO with this Memtest86+ - Advanced Memory Diagnostic Tool put in one stick and test on startup with the CD/DVD drive as first boot option. let it run a test on each stick. It is either a faulty module or a bad mobo slot. if you test each stick individually in the first 100% working slot then you will see if one of them is faulty. if they all pass, then its the 4th slot on the mobo. (you already pretty much confirmed this as being a bad stick of ram but good to do a double check as to the specific error etc).

Aug 26, 2009, 09:50 PM	#6
procupine14 Why is it Beeping!?!?! Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: USA, Missouri Posts: 1,400 Rep Power: 58 System Specs	Re: What wattage PSU to use for this system? Not to mention that if its a bad fourth memory slot in the motherboard that would be a relatively cheap solution to getting 4GB of RAM in there again. If you want to and have the funds, its pretty common to find some decent DDR2 RAM in a 2x2GB setup for under $60. I just picked up a 2x2GB Crucial Ballitix kit for $47. It would most likely be a cheaper solution than buying a new mobo and you could use the dual channel pair that excludes the bad slot. That might help if one stick of the RAM is bad as well either way I'm just throwing in my two cents! __________________ HTPC/file server: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit - AMD Phenom x4 9850 - 4GB OCZ DDR2 800 (2x2GB) - 1TB WD Black - 4 x 1TB Hitachi DeskStar in RAID 5 - ATi TV Wonder Digital Cable Tuner - HIS Raedon 4850 512MB - ASRock N68C-S UCC mobo - OCZ ModExtreme Pro 500W PSU GF's Gaming PC: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit - AMD Phenom 9850 - 4GB OCZ DDR2 1066 - 500GB Western Digital GP - HIS Raedon 5770 1GB - ASUS M3A78-EM - Zalman 650W PSU Media Streamer: Win 7 Pro 64-bit - AMD Athlon x2 3200+ - 4GB SuperTalent DDR2 800 - 250GB SeaGate Barracuda - MSI K9N6PGM2-V2 - ASUS Raedon 5450 SILENT - FSP group 250W PSU