Poor Performance - Possible GPU Upgrade

comp_ali · Oct 30, 2009, 09:54 PM

I think 60C for the CPU is pretty hot , maybe it is the cause for your "freezing" , Have you checked the thermal paste ?

**kris23** · Oct 30, 2009, 10:00 PM

can you give us the FULL specs of your system?

case and how many fans, GPU, CPU, RAM brand and spec, mobo, PSU, HDD, OS......

so far we have been just spitballing this situation and everything suggests that something is definitely wrong with this system.....

60C at idle is very high.... generally a CPU can only get that high on stock with the Intel Burn Test loading it....

blibbax · Oct 30, 2009, 10:01 PM

He says it slowly increases to 60, not that 60 is idle.

Furthermore this is not unusual for a stock cooled (?) intel CPU, and within safe limits.

comp_ali · Oct 30, 2009, 10:05 PM

If it is 60c idle it would be +80 on load and that's not cool.

WillC · Oct 30, 2009, 10:08 PM

There was some paste on there, I just replaced in like 3 months ago so it should be fine considering I don't put a lot of load on it.

comp_ali · Oct 30, 2009, 10:13 PM

hmm, can you tell since when your computer started to freeze " after attaching new hardware or doing some upgrades for example or it is just went like that.

I also may consider a clean install like Z said since windows gains more garbage and junk over the time.

WillC · Oct 31, 2009, 01:25 AM

Clean install wasn't long ago, I might be able to understand if it was years ago. It only freezes in the game "Left 4 Dead 2" when a setting called "Multicore Rendering" is enabled. Buffers/Filters just lower the fps.
My case is http://www.directcanada.com/products...nufacture=NZXT
and my RAM is 3Gb of this pretty much Newegg.ca - CORSAIR 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Desktop Memory Model VS1GB667D2 - Desktop Memory.
My case has 3 120mm fans, 1 rear, 1 side, 1 front. HDD is Newegg.ca - Western Digital Caviar Blue WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive . OS is Windows XP 32bit.

I have tried to explain before. Once I start system, and wait about 2 mins I then start speedfan. It starts around 54C then steadily reaches 60C and then stops increasing. It seems to idle at 60C considering the CPU usage is generally less than 10% while it is increasing to 60C.

**kris23** · Oct 31, 2009, 02:00 AM

wow... so it is 60C idle..... thats really bad... the CPU could be throttling if its THAT bad

you need to get some new thermal paste and reapply that thing ASAP man

RAM isnt in the most efficient configuration possible...... try to get another stick to run full dual-channel, it will help even if youre on 32-bit

WillC · Oct 31, 2009, 02:43 AM

I hear Speedfan doesn't work too great for some things. For instance it has readings for Core0 and Core 1 at 38-39C, while there is something called Core at 60C which confuses me as Core0 and Core1 would make more sense than a third that's doubled.

There is thermal paste on it, when I took it apart to clean dust off I took the stock CPU cooler off and noticed the silvery splatter that I had applied when switching mobos in the summer.

Edit: If the computer store down the road is open tomorrow I might grab a semi-cheap CPU cooler just in case considering I'll probably need one to keep any upgraded CPU cool as well

Dark Lord · Oct 31, 2009, 04:39 AM

i would try a few different tools to confirm that is the correct temp reading. try everest home, or coretemp.

ive also heard theres more then a few problems with the l4d2 demo. if all your other games are running fine, i wouldnt worry about it at this point. it sounds like a problem related to l4d2, and not your system.

if your system really is idling at 60c though, do get that fixed immediately. worry about l4d2 later.

**kris23** · Oct 31, 2009, 04:47 AM

get coretemp

Core Temp

i consider it more credible than something like speedfan

WillC · Oct 31, 2009, 05:43 AM

Alright, this program has a different layout, but from what I'm getting from it,
Tj. Max 95C
Core #0 Low: 34C, High 41C Load ~0-5%
Core #1 Low: 34C, High 43C Load ~0-4%
This is idling (switching between firefox and core temp) and it also seems much more of a likely reading.

The main thing I was worried about was the fact that I can't run any new games on high graphics. That was the main reason for getting a new GPU. I really didn't have any expectations of my 8800 being able to run Borderlands or L4D2 demo on high graphics, it has just been something I have wanted to try.

**kris23** · Oct 31, 2009, 05:54 AM

sounds good.... did you stress it fully yet? use stress prime or the intel burn test to test it.....

even a game might work well to test, then see what the highest recorded temp is...

WillC · Oct 31, 2009, 06:09 AM

Standard stress testing using IntelBurnTest V2.3 gave me a max of 65C on both cores. I am going to try the Maximum in a moment after it stabilizes.

Edit: Maximum Stress Test did not bring the temperatures above 65C which was set by Standard.

comp_ali · Oct 31, 2009, 09:19 AM

Does the computer freeze in these two games only or in all games ? also I would like to know when this issue you experienced started ?

**kris23** · Oct 31, 2009, 02:59 PM

ok good, the CPU doesnt overheat......

ok, if you are willing, i want you to go into your BIOS and try to overclock your chip a bit.... i want you to set your FSB to RAM strap to 1:1 (adjust your RAM timings to the lowest possible given the stock FSB) and set your CPU FSB to 333mhz this will boost your clocks to 2.33Ghz.

if you feel an improvement, its your CPU most definitely

WillC · Oct 31, 2009, 04:56 PM

Alright so I changed a few settings in the BIOS but I'm not sure if I did it exactly right. It was a bit confusing but I changed the following:
CPU Host Clock Control to [Enabled]
CPU Host Frequency (mhz) to [333]
****DRAM Performance Control****
Performance Enhance to [Standard]
(G)MCH Frequency Latch to [266]
and under this was a grayed out line that says "Memory Frequency (mhz) 667 833"

It felt a lot slower at start up but I think that's because my internet/renew IP was going crazy as my router is dying.

Also, in the BIOS it said the CPU changed from 1.87 to 2.33 yet in dxdiag it still shows 1.8? Does this just show the default?

comp_ali · Oct 31, 2009, 05:25 PM

dxdiag show the default clock not the real ones as well as many programs , like you said the actual speed can be seen after the system boot in the bios.

blibbax · Oct 31, 2009, 05:46 PM

Run a stress test (Like Prime95) with a close eye on temps to check that overclock.

Has this made any difference in Left for Dead?

I know someone who played it fine on a Pentium D and HD2600 (albeit lowered settings, but not that lowered), so I'd be surprised if it's just a CPU/GPU issue.

IvanV · Oct 31, 2009, 06:59 PM

Hmm, it could be that your system is okay after all. If it's only in L4D2 and only when multicore rendering is enabled, than I'd agree with DarkLord and say that it's the game as I've seen other reports of that happening.

As for the temperature readings, the Core0 and Core1 are sensors built into the CPU itself and the one named Core is probably the sensor on the processor socket (motherboard). I'd consider the first two sensors more trustworthy so that's probably fine too.

WillC · Oct 31, 2009, 07:46 PM

So I ran the stress test with the new OC and the max temps on both cores went up to 78C which I take to be quite hot. Earlier today I bought a CPU cooler for 775 and it says it will work for i5s and i7s as well. I'll likely need it to be on the safe side when I do eventually upgrade my CPU. Newegg.ca - ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro Rev.2 92mm Fluid Dynamic CPU Cooler - CPU Fans & Heatsinks

Did lowering the RAM timing to the lowest possible FSB make the RAM work less, and make the system slower? Or was it just a needed step in OCing the CPU? I'm going to throw on this cooler and hopefully keep my system OC'd so it will run a bit faster.

Dark Lord · Oct 31, 2009, 08:10 PM

thats not exactly an over clockers heat sink. ive got one (different brand, same cooler) on my 4800x2. if i hadnt gotten it for almost free after rebate, i wouldnt be happy with it at all.

**kris23** · Oct 31, 2009, 08:17 PM

OCed systems sometimes take longer to boot as they no longer load the stock values reported by the components...... having to load the unique profile takes longer on some boards... i know mine does but its completely stable.

since you now see temps of 78C the AC 7 Pro will do you good.... you also may want to turn down the CPU core Volts if possible... if its set to "Auto" try bringing it down to 1.3v and see if it boots... anything lower than whats reported by CPU-Z will help your temps.....

now try out Left 4 Dead and see if theres a noticeable difference... you have something like a 25% OC on there

WillC · Nov 1, 2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Lord

thats not exactly an over clockers heat sink. ive got one (different brand, same cooler) on my 4800x2. if i hadnt gotten it for almost free after rebate, i wouldnt be happy with it at all.

I lol'd. I'm quite happy with it as it brought the temps down 15C while stress testing it OCd. It was only $30 and it also isn't a space hog.

Also, in the BIOS it shows a few options where volts are used. They are:
CPU Vcore, CPU Termination, CPU Reference, MCH Core, ICH Core, DRAM Voltage.

I was pretty sure it was one of the first 3 but I wasn't sure which one to change the voltage to 1.3. The first option is already set to around 1.3xxx.

Oct 30, 2009, 09:54 PM	#31
comp_ali Sniper Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Egypt Posts: 10,469 Rep Power: 339 System Specs	Re: Poor Performance - Possible GPU Upgrade I think 60C for the CPU is pretty hot , maybe it is the cause for your "freezing" , Have you checked the thermal paste ? __________________

Oct 30, 2009, 10:00 PM	#32
kris23 Going Insane..... Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,018 Rep Power: 131 System Specs	Re: Poor Performance - Possible GPU Upgrade can you give us the FULL specs of your system? case and how many fans, GPU, CPU, RAM brand and spec, mobo, PSU, HDD, OS...... so far we have been just spitballing this situation and everything suggests that something is definitely wrong with this system..... 60C at idle is very high.... generally a CPU can only get that high on stock with the Intel Burn Test loading it.... __________________ Hardwareheaven Super-Moderator Building a new computer system and not sure where to start? Click Here! last updated (5/18/11) Rosewill FUTURE case replaces CM 690 II with its greater interior length. Building a PC: Step by Step Guide Written by Kristopher Pedemonte and Nathan Marks-Forder Edited by Allan Campbell Questions or Comments? feel free to post them in the forums!

Oct 30, 2009, 10:01 PM	#33
blibbax What does this do? Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 4,230 Rep Power: 254 System Specs	Re: Poor Performance - Possible GPU Upgrade He says it slowly increases to 60, not that 60 is idle. Furthermore this is not unusual for a stock cooled (?) intel CPU, and within safe limits. __________________ Donate the spare computing power of your PC to help to cure Alzheimer's, ALS, Huntington's, Parkinson's disease and cancer: Fold for HH!

Oct 30, 2009, 10:05 PM	#34
comp_ali Sniper Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Egypt Posts: 10,469 Rep Power: 339 System Specs	Re: Poor Performance - Possible GPU Upgrade If it is 60c idle it would be +80 on load and that's not cool. __________________

Oct 30, 2009, 10:08 PM	Thread Starter #35
WillC HardwareHeaven Lover Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 114 Rep Power: 0	Re: Poor Performance - Possible GPU Upgrade There was some paste on there, I just replaced in like 3 months ago so it should be fine considering I don't put a lot of load on it.

Oct 30, 2009, 10:13 PM	#36
comp_ali Sniper Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Egypt Posts: 10,469 Rep Power: 339 System Specs	Re: Poor Performance - Possible GPU Upgrade hmm, can you tell since when your computer started to freeze " after attaching new hardware or doing some upgrades for example or it is just went like that. I also may consider a clean install like Z said since windows gains more garbage and junk over the time. __________________

Oct 31, 2009, 01:25 AM	Thread Starter #37
WillC HardwareHeaven Lover Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 114 Rep Power: 0	Re: Poor Performance - Possible GPU Upgrade Clean install wasn't long ago, I might be able to understand if it was years ago. It only freezes in the game "Left 4 Dead 2" when a setting called "Multicore Rendering" is enabled. Buffers/Filters just lower the fps. My case is http://www.directcanada.com/products...nufacture=NZXT and my RAM is 3Gb of this pretty much Newegg.ca - CORSAIR 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Desktop Memory Model VS1GB667D2 - Desktop Memory. My case has 3 120mm fans, 1 rear, 1 side, 1 front. HDD is Newegg.ca - Western Digital Caviar Blue WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive . OS is Windows XP 32bit. I have tried to explain before. Once I start system, and wait about 2 mins I then start speedfan. It starts around 54C then steadily reaches 60C and then stops increasing. It seems to idle at 60C considering the CPU usage is generally less than 10% while it is increasing to 60C.

Oct 31, 2009, 02:00 AM	#38
kris23 Going Insane..... Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,018 Rep Power: 131 System Specs	Re: Poor Performance - Possible GPU Upgrade wow... so it is 60C idle..... thats really bad... the CPU could be throttling if its THAT bad you need to get some new thermal paste and reapply that thing ASAP man RAM isnt in the most efficient configuration possible...... try to get another stick to run full dual-channel, it will help even if youre on 32-bit __________________ Hardwareheaven Super-Moderator Building a new computer system and not sure where to start? Click Here! last updated (5/18/11) Rosewill FUTURE case replaces CM 690 II with its greater interior length. Building a PC: Step by Step Guide Written by Kristopher Pedemonte and Nathan Marks-Forder Edited by Allan Campbell Questions or Comments? feel free to post them in the forums!

Oct 31, 2009, 02:43 AM	Thread Starter #39
WillC HardwareHeaven Lover Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 114 Rep Power: 0	Re: Poor Performance - Possible GPU Upgrade I hear Speedfan doesn't work too great for some things. For instance it has readings for Core0 and Core 1 at 38-39C, while there is something called Core at 60C which confuses me as Core0 and Core1 would make more sense than a third that's doubled. There is thermal paste on it, when I took it apart to clean dust off I took the stock CPU cooler off and noticed the silvery splatter that I had applied when switching mobos in the summer. Edit: If the computer store down the road is open tomorrow I might grab a semi-cheap CPU cooler just in case considering I'll probably need one to keep any upgraded CPU cool as well Last edited by WillC; Oct 31, 2009 at 03:09 AM.

Oct 31, 2009, 04:39 AM	#40
Dark Lord HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 5,945 Rep Power: 125 System Specs	Re: Poor Performance - Possible GPU Upgrade i would try a few different tools to confirm that is the correct temp reading. try everest home, or coretemp. ive also heard theres more then a few problems with the l4d2 demo. if all your other games are running fine, i wouldnt worry about it at this point. it sounds like a problem related to l4d2, and not your system. if your system really is idling at 60c though, do get that fixed immediately. worry about l4d2 later. __________________ Last edited by Dark Lord; Oct 31, 2009 at 04:48 AM.

Oct 31, 2009, 04:47 AM	#41
kris23 Going Insane..... Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,018 Rep Power: 131 System Specs	Re: Poor Performance - Possible GPU Upgrade get coretemp Core Temp i consider it more credible than something like speedfan __________________ Hardwareheaven Super-Moderator Building a new computer system and not sure where to start? Click Here! last updated (5/18/11) Rosewill FUTURE case replaces CM 690 II with its greater interior length. Building a PC: Step by Step Guide Written by Kristopher Pedemonte and Nathan Marks-Forder Edited by Allan Campbell Questions or Comments? feel free to post them in the forums!

Oct 31, 2009, 05:43 AM	Thread Starter #42
WillC HardwareHeaven Lover Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 114 Rep Power: 0	Re: Poor Performance - Possible GPU Upgrade Alright, this program has a different layout, but from what I'm getting from it, Tj. Max 95C Core #0 Low: 34C, High 41C Load ~0-5% Core #1 Low: 34C, High 43C Load ~0-4% This is idling (switching between firefox and core temp) and it also seems much more of a likely reading. The main thing I was worried about was the fact that I can't run any new games on high graphics. That was the main reason for getting a new GPU. I really didn't have any expectations of my 8800 being able to run Borderlands or L4D2 demo on high graphics, it has just been something I have wanted to try.

Oct 31, 2009, 05:54 AM	#43
kris23 Going Insane..... Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,018 Rep Power: 131 System Specs	Re: Poor Performance - Possible GPU Upgrade sounds good.... did you stress it fully yet? use stress prime or the intel burn test to test it..... even a game might work well to test, then see what the highest recorded temp is... __________________ Hardwareheaven Super-Moderator Building a new computer system and not sure where to start? Click Here! last updated (5/18/11) Rosewill FUTURE case replaces CM 690 II with its greater interior length. Building a PC: Step by Step Guide Written by Kristopher Pedemonte and Nathan Marks-Forder Edited by Allan Campbell Questions or Comments? feel free to post them in the forums!

Oct 31, 2009, 06:09 AM	Thread Starter #44
WillC HardwareHeaven Lover Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 114 Rep Power: 0	Re: Poor Performance - Possible GPU Upgrade Standard stress testing using IntelBurnTest V2.3 gave me a max of 65C on both cores. I am going to try the Maximum in a moment after it stabilizes. Edit: Maximum Stress Test did not bring the temperatures above 65C which was set by Standard. Last edited by WillC; Oct 31, 2009 at 06:36 AM.

Oct 31, 2009, 09:19 AM	#45
comp_ali Sniper Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Egypt Posts: 10,469 Rep Power: 339 System Specs	Re: Poor Performance - Possible GPU Upgrade Does the computer freeze in these two games only or in all games ? also I would like to know when this issue you experienced started ? __________________

Oct 31, 2009, 02:59 PM	#46
kris23 Going Insane..... Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,018 Rep Power: 131 System Specs	Re: Poor Performance - Possible GPU Upgrade ok good, the CPU doesnt overheat...... ok, if you are willing, i want you to go into your BIOS and try to overclock your chip a bit.... i want you to set your FSB to RAM strap to 1:1 (adjust your RAM timings to the lowest possible given the stock FSB) and set your CPU FSB to 333mhz this will boost your clocks to 2.33Ghz. if you feel an improvement, its your CPU most definitely __________________ Hardwareheaven Super-Moderator Building a new computer system and not sure where to start? Click Here! last updated (5/18/11) Rosewill FUTURE case replaces CM 690 II with its greater interior length. Building a PC: Step by Step Guide Written by Kristopher Pedemonte and Nathan Marks-Forder Edited by Allan Campbell Questions or Comments? feel free to post them in the forums! Last edited by kris23; Oct 31, 2009 at 03:09 PM.

Oct 31, 2009, 04:56 PM	Thread Starter #47
WillC HardwareHeaven Lover Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 114 Rep Power: 0	Re: Poor Performance - Possible GPU Upgrade Alright so I changed a few settings in the BIOS but I'm not sure if I did it exactly right. It was a bit confusing but I changed the following: CPU Host Clock Control to [Enabled] CPU Host Frequency (mhz) to [333] **DRAM Performance Control** Performance Enhance to [Standard] (G)MCH Frequency Latch to [266] and under this was a grayed out line that says "Memory Frequency (mhz) 667 833" It felt a lot slower at start up but I think that's because my internet/renew IP was going crazy as my router is dying. Also, in the BIOS it said the CPU changed from 1.87 to 2.33 yet in dxdiag it still shows 1.8? Does this just show the default?

Oct 31, 2009, 05:25 PM	#48
comp_ali Sniper Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Egypt Posts: 10,469 Rep Power: 339 System Specs	Re: Poor Performance - Possible GPU Upgrade dxdiag show the default clock not the real ones as well as many programs , like you said the actual speed can be seen after the system boot in the bios. __________________

Oct 31, 2009, 05:46 PM	#49
blibbax What does this do? Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 4,230 Rep Power: 254 System Specs	Re: Poor Performance - Possible GPU Upgrade Run a stress test (Like Prime95) with a close eye on temps to check that overclock. Has this made any difference in Left for Dead? I know someone who played it fine on a Pentium D and HD2600 (albeit lowered settings, but not that lowered), so I'd be surprised if it's just a CPU/GPU issue. __________________ Donate the spare computing power of your PC to help to cure Alzheimer's, ALS, Huntington's, Parkinson's disease and cancer: Fold for HH!

Oct 31, 2009, 06:59 PM	#50
IvanV HH Assassin Guild Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,914 Rep Power: 333 System Specs	Re: Poor Performance - Possible GPU Upgrade Hmm, it could be that your system is okay after all. If it's only in L4D2 and only when multicore rendering is enabled, than I'd agree with DarkLord and say that it's the game as I've seen other reports of that happening. As for the temperature readings, the Core0 and Core1 are sensors built into the CPU itself and the one named Core is probably the sensor on the processor socket (motherboard). I'd consider the first two sensors more trustworthy so that's probably fine too. __________________ If anyone has Portal 2 and hasn't played the co-op and wants to do me a favour, let me know (PM me or whatever).

Oct 31, 2009, 07:46 PM	Thread Starter #51
WillC HardwareHeaven Lover Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 114 Rep Power: 0	Re: Poor Performance - Possible GPU Upgrade So I ran the stress test with the new OC and the max temps on both cores went up to 78C which I take to be quite hot. Earlier today I bought a CPU cooler for 775 and it says it will work for i5s and i7s as well. I'll likely need it to be on the safe side when I do eventually upgrade my CPU. Newegg.ca - ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro Rev.2 92mm Fluid Dynamic CPU Cooler - CPU Fans & Heatsinks Did lowering the RAM timing to the lowest possible FSB make the RAM work less, and make the system slower? Or was it just a needed step in OCing the CPU? I'm going to throw on this cooler and hopefully keep my system OC'd so it will run a bit faster.

Oct 31, 2009, 08:10 PM	#52
Dark Lord HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 5,945 Rep Power: 125 System Specs	Re: Poor Performance - Possible GPU Upgrade thats not exactly an over clockers heat sink. ive got one (different brand, same cooler) on my 4800x2. if i hadnt gotten it for almost free after rebate, i wouldnt be happy with it at all. __________________

Oct 31, 2009, 08:17 PM	#53
kris23 Going Insane..... Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,018 Rep Power: 131 System Specs	Re: Poor Performance - Possible GPU Upgrade OCed systems sometimes take longer to boot as they no longer load the stock values reported by the components...... having to load the unique profile takes longer on some boards... i know mine does but its completely stable. since you now see temps of 78C the AC 7 Pro will do you good.... you also may want to turn down the CPU core Volts if possible... if its set to "Auto" try bringing it down to 1.3v and see if it boots... anything lower than whats reported by CPU-Z will help your temps..... now try out Left 4 Dead and see if theres a noticeable difference... you have something like a 25% OC on there __________________ Hardwareheaven Super-Moderator Building a new computer system and not sure where to start? Click Here! last updated (5/18/11) Rosewill FUTURE case replaces CM 690 II with its greater interior length. Building a PC: Step by Step Guide Written by Kristopher Pedemonte and Nathan Marks-Forder Edited by Allan Campbell Questions or Comments? feel free to post them in the forums!