WillC

Hi again, I read kris23's sticky about computer building and I think all I really need is a new GPU.
Basically, as newer games come out (Borderlands, L4D2) my computer has to run them on lower and lower graphics due to complete computer freezing for about 2-10 seconds depending on the situation. I had to turn all filtering and bloom off for these freezings to stop in the "left 4 dead 2 demo" and to allow it to run properly.
My specs are:
Mobo Newegg.com - GIGABYTE GA-EP43-UD3L LGA 775 Intel P43 ATX Intel Motherboard - Intel Motherboards
CPU Intel® Core?2 Duo Processor E6300 (2M Cache, 1.86 GHz, 1066 MHz FSB) with SPEC Code(s) SL9TA
GPU Newegg.com - EVGA 512P3N802DX GeForce 8800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Desktop Graphics / Video Cards
RAM 3GBs at about 5300 or 3200 I don't have the boxes at my current house.

I am not sure if I should upgrade the GPU to Newegg.com - XFX HD-585A-ZNFC Radeon HD 5850 (Cypress Pro) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card w/ATI Eyefinity - Desktop Graphics / Video Cards or similar, or if I should look into a new CPU. Which would likely be either 8400 or 8500 intel core 2 duo (although I was hoping to wait until i7s come down in price and get a new mobo too at this time).
Whichever would be the greatest effect and allow me to run games on high or even highest graphics

Thanks.

BlueMak

The graphics card will be better (but I would recommend something like the 5770), but the CPU is slow too. In fact, I would change both.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

WillC

Yeah the problem is I'm on a tight budget though, I really shouldn't be upgrading my computer at all but I'm getting kind of annoyed at the settings for games. So a 5770 is better than the 5850?

BlueMak

Oh, 5850, eh, I don't remember. There have been a couple of great reviews at DH recently, take a look there/here.

As to card or cpu...it depends on the games you play. Some newer games almost require to have a quad core cpu...while other games don't care much about the cpu and depend only on the graphics card.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

blibbax

The 5850 is faster than the 5770 and both are much faster than your current. However, both would be bottlekecked by that CPU most of the time.

What resolution do you play at?

Also, what power supply are you using? You need to be careful of this when upgrading your GPU.

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ET3D

I went to the L4D2 page on Steam. The recommended spec is Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz and NVIDIA 7600 or ATI X1600. You graphics card is a lot over that and the CPU is under. However, you haven't said what resolution you play at normally and what options (AA in particular). I'd also like to know what OS you're running.

kris23

the 5850 is plenty of performance....it will definitely be bottlenecked but you will probably be able to turn settings up while maintaining a similar FPS

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WillC

My reso is 1680 by 1050 and when it was stuttering was when I had AA x4 and bloom on at some setting. Turning all graphical settings to low and no AA/bloom it runs smoothly it just looks bad especially since the distance visually seeing things is low.
My PSU is Newegg.ca - OCZ StealthXStream OCZ700SXS 700W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Active PFC Power Supply - Power Supplies

IvanV

I'm not sure that I understood you correctly, but sporadic temporary 2-10s freezes don't sound like a simple lack of computational power. Do these freezes happen outside of games? If it's only in games and with high visual detail, I'd suspect a failing PSU. If it happens outside of games, I had a similar issue where the culprit was a bad PSU connector that powered the hard drive (if this is the case, the HDD should make a click as the PC freezes and then spin up before the system resumes operation; if you have this symptom, it's either a bad connection or a failing hard drive).

In any case, I suggest that you find the cause of such bad behaviour before making any purchases.

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If anyone has Portal 2 and hasn't played the co-op and wants to do me a favour, let me know (PM me or whatever).

WillC

The temporary freezes are only in the l4d2 demo and with the graphics around the medium level. The PSU has 700W with I believe 4(?) 12V rails so I doubt that it is unable to power my computer as it was more than enough when I got it.

Edit: My OS is XP 32bit

Zardon

Granted your hardware isnt state of the art, but let me ask you a question, not hardware related. when was the last time you reinstalled the OS from clean?

BlueMak

If you are only going to upgrade one thing and money is tight, then you might as well (if you go for the graphics card) go for the 5770.
That CPU is slow though...so...I will ask you again, what games do you usually play? Borderlands and L4D2 should in theory play fine, if you lower your resolution to 1280x720 and disable dynamic shadows and ambient occlusion. The latter one is a bit hit in performance from what I read.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

WillC

Last clean OS install was late summer when I got my new HDD.
I imagine in the summer I will be working again and have some money to spend on possibly a new mobo (which kind of stinks because I just bought this cheap one to support SATA) and an i7 CPU.
I was hoping to be able to buy a quite good graphics card for less than $300 so I can play these games (L4D2 and Borderlands) on high graphics 1680 x 1050 at least 80fps with current CPU.

Is it possible for me to grab that HD5850 for 80fps so I won't have to upgrade the GPU for another 2 years (or even that 5770 if it will do the job of 80fps with this lame CPU)?

kris23

yea that seems to work.... though i have to say, the 8800GT is a very powerful card still.. if thats giving you significant lag then you may got some other issues going on....

do you overclock because the 8800GT may actually be bottlenecked right now

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WillC

No I haven't overclocked anything on this computer.
I was told that the 8800 was good when I got it about a year ago, but it wasn't the most expensive so I figured that it would be outdated quite fast. Although I didn't expect to get lock-ups with a source engine game. I am pretty sure the AA was at 4x and I haven't really had the patience to see which setting is causing it.. However with the game Borderlands - I have every graphical setting to the absolute minimum (Except reso at 1680 x 1050) and it still slows down at some points.

kris23

id try to boost the CPU a bit to see if thats the issue because.... i have a weaker card than you and i hardly have any real issue at all....

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WillC

Hmm, well I have tweaked the settings a bit and it looks like the culprit is a called "Multicore Rendering" but it still chugs with 2x MSAA, Double Buffering, and Trilinear filtering and various other Medium-High effects/shader etc in certain places. The problem I have noticed is that Borderlands just looks like a blur of colours with the settings all the way down and it still stutters a lot of the time.

If I have to upgrade the CPU to improve the performance over getting a good GPU and bottlenecking it, should I go for the new i7s or is i5 plenty? Considering I would need a new mobo and likely ram as well, would a high frequency quad core unleash the power of an HD 5770/5850?

kris23

i5 is plenty.... OCing one would unleash great potential with the DX11 cards....

Frys had a deal going on where you could get an i5 750 and gigabyte mobo for $220 i feel like strangling myself as that deal ends today.....

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BlueMak

Just make sure that your RAM is supported and that the PSU can handle the new (insert new hardware).

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

blibbax

Just a couple of things...

4 rails isn't neccessarily a good thing, but I don't think that's your issue.

Also, there's no way that graphics card should be struggling in L4D even with te settings you described, and serious stuttering suggests a problem, as others have said, other than that CPU.

Bare in mind also that increasing visual settings can increase the load on the whole system, not just the GPU.

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comp_ali

i5 is better in terms of price per performance and their is i7 870 which uses the same socket , you'll have to get DDR3 rams to be honest , for the PSU I think 700 watts is enough since the new ATI 5XXX's draw less power than 4XXX series.

But , before going to buy your new hardware try using air blower to remove the dust from inside your case , cpu fans and PSU fans. I had the same issue once.

Also check the temps of your CPU and GPU , for the CPU it shouldn't be over 40C. If it is over 40 try removing the CPU cooler and apply new thermal paste then attach it precisely.


Edit : btw , your system is very close to mine (even better) so It is odd you can't run L4D2 or Borderlands smoothly even on 1680x1050.

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BlueMak

40C is not the limit for the CPU. It depends on a variety of eh variables. Now, if it is constantly over high 50s(C) then perhaps you have some issue there.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

comp_ali

It is average , for idle it would be normally below 40C . Intel CPU have great thermal performance. For me it is 37C idle.

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WillC

Alright I downloaded Speedfan and it's giving me a whole bunch of readings. All these readings are taken without running any graphically or CPU intensive programs (just started up) and I'm getting: GPU - 60C, Core0 - 39C, Core1 - 39C, Core - 60C. The "GPU" and "Core" are fireballs and if these are accurate and it is overheating it strikes me as weird due to the fact I'm not even OCing.

Also, I did a little poking around on newegg and found out a few things. First, an i5 750 is less expensive than a intel quad core 2.83GHz? Also, if I went the new mobo, CPU, and RAM I'd be looking at ~$450 before tax.
Here is what I was looking at: Newegg.ca - MSI P55M-GD45 LGA 1156 Intel P55 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Intel Motherboards , Newegg.ca - Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor - Processors - Desktops , Newegg.ca - Kingston HyperX 1GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1800 (PC3 14400) Desktop Memory Model KHX1800C8D3/1G - Desktop Memory , Newegg.ca - Kingston HyperX 2GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1800 (PC3 14400) Desktop Memory Model KHX1800C8D3/2G - Desktop Memory .

If I just grabbed a quad core and the HD5770 I would only be looking at ~$340 before tax and this is what I was looking at: Newegg.ca - Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 2.33GHz 4MB L2 Cache LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor - Processors - Desktops , Newegg.ca - SAPPHIRE 100283L Radeon HD 5770 (Juniper XT) 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Desktop Graphics / Video Cards . Is this CPU much better or just slightly better than my current (1.8GHz dual core)? Either way I will likely end up buying a 5xxx if not right away, then later after the i5.

BlueMak

The GPU is not fireball. I keep saying this, both ATI and Nvidia cards have issues with the auto fan. You have to set the fan manually or else you will get a very high temp out of your graphics card.

I wouldn't get the Q8200, not worth it IMO. Either go for a Q9xxx or jump to i7 etc (unless of course you want to get AMD cpu)


BEFORE you buy anything, set the fan for the graphics card to 95% or something and see if the problems persist.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

WillC

Where would I set the fan for graphics card to 95%? In speedfan or in some sort of nVidia control panel?

Edit: I just opened it up and cleaned dust out of GPU and CPU stock fan, also tried to blow some dust out of the PSU. Even though these readings may be high they are still the same temperature readings which leads me to believe dust wasn't causing overheating?

comp_ali

Actually 8800 GT used to have high temps so I think 60c is normal "although you might want to turn up fan speed", for the CPU I got that the two (0-1)cores are under 40C , however I don't get what's meant by "Core" is that CPU or GPU thing , If it is a CPU related then it is too high and I recommend to have a look at the thermal paste if it is proper or not enough.

To be sure , try the cpu temp monitor in your bios once you boot.

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Bolletje

Huh? 60C is quite hot for @ idle mode. Although, it could be your case hasn't got enough airflow.

8800GT can still run games quite well these days. Yes, there are faster graphics cards available, but they are pricy too.

If I were you I should overclock that E6300 a little bit.

Try Rivatuner

blibbax

Overclocking is not a great place to start unless you're sure of what you're doing.

60 degrees is fine for G92, but nt as an idle temp.. what's the load?

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WillC

Well the CPU usage is at ~0% and it steadily increases to 60C from startup then stops at that temperature. These readings are from speedfan
Also, I have never really OC'd anything before so I don't know how to. I'd imagine it's pretty complicated though