need GPU for old mainboard

Phenixas · Nov 3, 2009, 07:13 PM

hi,i have old pc with VIA P4X266 PE-11/T motherboard it has s3 graphics which is a crap. can i upgrade it with beter GPU. this board does not have pci express.so please post your suggestions. thanks for advice

Judas · Nov 3, 2009, 07:57 PM

IMO best... specially for Via chipset.. with AGP... is a ATI Radeon x1650xt AGP (or anything in the X1xxx series....

They use native AGP busses, anything in the HDxxxx and above use a PCI-ex to AGP bridge which has caused ALOT of people havoc...

I mean you can give one of those video cards like the 3850 a try, but i don't recommend it, not unless you can take it back at the moments notice of an issue occuring.

comp_ali · Nov 3, 2009, 09:04 PM

You can get Hd4670 AGP from Powercolor , Gigabyte or HIS.
But get a decent PSU first , here is a review for some AGp cards

Conclusion - Review Tom's Hardware : Gaming With AGP Graphics: Overclock That CPU!

Edit : but like Judas said , if you are not much into gaming you can go with X1650 , it is cheaper and not bad (Pixel Shader 3.0 however ) , you can get a better card when you decide to upgrade your system as you will have to relplace the AGP one anyway since all modern systems are PCI-e.

Phenixas · Nov 4, 2009, 06:59 AM

what can you say about hd4670 is it good at gaming? and how many watts PSU i need to run this card? 450 or better?

comp_ali · Nov 4, 2009, 07:04 AM

450 is really enough , an i am using 350 with the same card

but I don't recommend you doing that. I can play most games at 1280x1024 with high setting except from crysis.

ET3D · Nov 4, 2009, 09:06 AM

Presumably you have a Pentium 4 on that board, which will be the limiting factor on modern games. If you want to play older games, an older Radeon (9500 or higher) or GeForce (6000 or higher) should be good enough. Anything will be better than the S3.

Try to find a used card, like this: ATI Radeon X1600 Pro AGP 512MB Video Card - eBay (item 290364648585 end time Nov-05-09 05:24:55 PST)

Edit: Reading this back, to someone not in the know it won't be obvious that the Radeon X... and HD... are newer than the 9500.

comp_ali · Nov 4, 2009, 09:38 AM

Yes , I heard some people could run crysis on that card with low setting.

niceguyrichy · Nov 4, 2009, 11:56 AM

i still have a 9600 Atlantis in an old comp, handles a surprising number of game

Phenixas · Nov 4, 2009, 12:22 PM

but which is the best from these all GPU's?

comp_ali · Nov 4, 2009, 01:05 PM

the best are 4670HD and 9600GSO if it is available in AGP.

Bolletje · Nov 4, 2009, 03:27 PM

9600GSO isn't available for AGP.

Quote:

but which is the best from these all GPU's?

You could better ask you the question "Which is the best for me?".

You P4 isn't that good anymore. Try to find a X1650 Pro or something like that.

IvanV · Nov 4, 2009, 04:10 PM

ATI 4670 is by far the fastest (or ATI 3850, a very similar GPU). It's also the latest, supporting DX10.1 (although that might not be too important to you since depending on what processor and how much RAM you have, DX10 games might be too demanding for the rest of your system) and high definition video decoding (which you may find useful).

ATI 3650 or 2600XT would also be good solutions. They too are DX10 compatible and support high definition video decoding, and while slower than 3850 and 4670, they should be fast enough for any game your system can run.

Then there is the previous generation of cards, ATI X1600, X1800 and X1900. They only support Shader Model 3.0 (DX9.0c), but I think that that's still okay for any game, especially slightly older ones. They can be found dirt cheap second hand and an X1950GT would on occasion actually outperform a 3650, so it may be your best choice.

As you see, a lot depends on the rest of your system, if it's a 2GHz Celeron with 512MB RAM, many current games won't work on it. If it's something like a Pentium 4 3GHz with Hyper Threading and 1GB or more of RAM, you'll be able to play a lot of games on it.

Phenixas · Nov 4, 2009, 04:14 PM

I have pentium 4 2.4Ghz and 512ram

IvanV · Nov 4, 2009, 04:35 PM

Okay, that's not too bad. If you could get an ATI X1950GT or Pro and an extra 512MB of RAM, you could play many games on your PC. An ATI X1600XT or X1650 would also be pretty good and on Nvidia's side a 7600GT or 7900GS would also serve you well. ATI 3650 would be okay too. It's not really faster than an X1950GT or Pro, but it's there, it consumes little power and has good high definition video decoding.

The faster cards are out there too, but, considering your system, any dollar payed for one of those cards over the prices of X1950 or 3650 is wasted.

Good luck.

niceguyrichy · Nov 4, 2009, 06:38 PM

for sure try and increase the amount of RAM as well, thats a big hold back at only 512mb

comp_ali · Nov 4, 2009, 06:40 PM

No need. DDR2 , DDR1 prices are going up in a ridiculous way. Better invest in new system later that , maybe with quad core and nice GPU.

Phenixas · Nov 4, 2009, 07:06 PM

thank you guys for all your opinions,but did my board have AGP 8x or only 4x?

IvanV · Nov 4, 2009, 08:10 PM

Agp 4x

comp_ali · Nov 4, 2009, 09:21 PM

specific cards with AGP 8x can't run on 4x slot , I don't know about x1650 backward compatibility however .

Bolletje · Nov 4, 2009, 09:26 PM

IvanV · Nov 4, 2009, 10:21 PM

Oops, that might make the entire previous discussion a bit pointless.

Dark Lord · Nov 4, 2009, 10:39 PM

on newegg, the entire 3000 series is listed as being able to run in 4x/8x, with the exception of a powercolor 3650.
the HIS 4650s are listed as 4x/8x also.
the 1650s are also listed as running in 4x/8x

IvanV · Nov 4, 2009, 11:25 PM

I read a bit on this after I was corrected about my previous post, all AGP 8x cards can work at 4x speed, but that doesn't necessarily make them compatible with older slots. The issue is that AGP 3.0 standard prescribes 0.8V signaling voltage, while in AGP 2.0 it's 1.5V. All early AGP 3.0 cards were Universal AGP 3.0, meaning that they supported both voltages. I don't know about the later ones. Still, this seems to be a good resource on the issue even though it is dated. All cards listed there are universal, the latest being ATI X1950Pro, which is a very good match for the sistem in question. GeForce 7600 and 7800GS are also listed as compatible.

Since I'm fairly sure that that card (the X1950) is a bridged solution (PCI-E GPU communicating to AGP bus through an additional bridge chip) and that ATI has only one version of the bridge chip, it's very likely that all of later ATI AGP cards are compatible with AGP 2.0 (4x) slots as well. This all conforms to one of the basic unwritten rules of assembling PCs, if it fits, it should work.

Still, that's not always the case and I've seen reports of problems with some of those cards, with one user even claiming damage to the motherboard from inserting a GF 7600GS into an AGP 4X slot (though this seems to be an unlikely cause to me, because, as stated above, AGP 8x cards work at lower voltage than older slots, so if anything gets fried, it should be the card), so like most things I read on the Internet, I wouldn't bet my life on this.

Phenixas · Nov 5, 2009, 07:38 AM

looks like my system is really outdated,but i don't have enough cash to buy new system so i will upgrade it with new GPU and some RAM

xProg · Nov 5, 2009, 09:28 AM

What CPU do you have Phenixas ?

Phenixas · Nov 5, 2009, 09:46 AM

Intel pentitm 4 2.4 Ghz

Judas · Nov 5, 2009, 03:42 PM

i still recommend the x1650 agp and definitely get 512mb of ram more (i'd suggest finding 2x1gb DDR 3200 kit though, adding 512mb to that system is not cost affective vs adding 1.5gb)

xProg · Nov 5, 2009, 04:13 PM

you can buy a nvidia geforce 7600gt agp...

Nov 3, 2009, 07:13 PM	#1
Phenixas HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Lithuania Posts: 32 Rep Power: 0	need GPU for old mainboard hi,i have old pc with VIA P4X266 PE-11/T motherboard it has s3 graphics which is a crap. can i upgrade it with beter GPU. this board does not have pci express.so please post your suggestions. thanks for advice

Nov 3, 2009, 09:04 PM	#3
comp_ali Sniper Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Egypt Posts: 10,469 Rep Power: 339 System Specs	Re: need GPU for old mainboard You can get Hd4670 AGP from Powercolor , Gigabyte or HIS. But get a decent PSU first , here is a review for some AGp cards Conclusion - Review Tom's Hardware : Gaming With AGP Graphics: Overclock That CPU! Edit : but like Judas said , if you are not much into gaming you can go with X1650 , it is cheaper and not bad (Pixel Shader 3.0 however ) , you can get a better card when you decide to upgrade your system as you will have to relplace the AGP one anyway since all modern systems are PCI-e. __________________ Last edited by comp_ali; Nov 3, 2009 at 09:10 PM.

Nov 4, 2009, 06:59 AM	Thread Starter #4
Phenixas HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Lithuania Posts: 32 Rep Power: 0	Re: need GPU for old mainboard what can you say about hd4670 is it good at gaming? and how many watts PSU i need to run this card? 450 or better?

Nov 4, 2009, 07:04 AM	#5
comp_ali Sniper Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Egypt Posts: 10,469 Rep Power: 339 System Specs	Re: need GPU for old mainboard 450 is really enough , an i am using 350 with the same card but I don't recommend you doing that. I can play most games at 1280x1024 with high setting except from crysis. __________________

Nov 4, 2009, 09:06 AM	#6
ET3D Hopeless Dreamer Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Dreamland, near the pool of infinite graphics cards Posts: 3,057 Rep Power: 105 System Specs	Re: need GPU for old mainboard Presumably you have a Pentium 4 on that board, which will be the limiting factor on modern games. If you want to play older games, an older Radeon (9500 or higher) or GeForce (6000 or higher) should be good enough. Anything will be better than the S3. Try to find a used card, like this: ATI Radeon X1600 Pro AGP 512MB Video Card - eBay (item 290364648585 end time Nov-05-09 05:24:55 PST) Edit: Reading this back, to someone not in the know it won't be obvious that the Radeon X... and HD... are newer than the 9500. Last edited by ET3D; Nov 4, 2009 at 11:37 AM.

Nov 4, 2009, 09:38 AM	#7
comp_ali Sniper Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Egypt Posts: 10,469 Rep Power: 339 System Specs	Re: need GPU for old mainboard Yes , I heard some people could run crysis on that card with low setting. __________________

Nov 4, 2009, 12:22 PM	Thread Starter #9
Phenixas HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Lithuania Posts: 32 Rep Power: 0	Re: need GPU for old mainboard but which is the best from these all GPU's?

Nov 4, 2009, 01:05 PM	#10
comp_ali Sniper Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Egypt Posts: 10,469 Rep Power: 339 System Specs	Re: need GPU for old mainboard the best are 4670HD and 9600GSO if it is available in AGP. __________________

Nov 4, 2009, 04:10 PM	#12
IvanV HH Assassin Guild Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,911 Rep Power: 333 System Specs	Re: need GPU for old mainboard ATI 4670 is by far the fastest (or ATI 3850, a very similar GPU). It's also the latest, supporting DX10.1 (although that might not be too important to you since depending on what processor and how much RAM you have, DX10 games might be too demanding for the rest of your system) and high definition video decoding (which you may find useful). ATI 3650 or 2600XT would also be good solutions. They too are DX10 compatible and support high definition video decoding, and while slower than 3850 and 4670, they should be fast enough for any game your system can run. Then there is the previous generation of cards, ATI X1600, X1800 and X1900. They only support Shader Model 3.0 (DX9.0c), but I think that that's still okay for any game, especially slightly older ones. They can be found dirt cheap second hand and an X1950GT would on occasion actually outperform a 3650, so it may be your best choice. As you see, a lot depends on the rest of your system, if it's a 2GHz Celeron with 512MB RAM, many current games won't work on it. If it's something like a Pentium 4 3GHz with Hyper Threading and 1GB or more of RAM, you'll be able to play a lot of games on it. __________________ If anyone has Portal 2 and hasn't played the co-op and wants to do me a favour, let me know (PM me or whatever).

Nov 4, 2009, 04:14 PM	Thread Starter #13
Phenixas HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Lithuania Posts: 32 Rep Power: 0	Re: need GPU for old mainboard I have pentium 4 2.4Ghz and 512ram

Nov 4, 2009, 04:35 PM	#14
IvanV HH Assassin Guild Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,911 Rep Power: 333 System Specs	Re: need GPU for old mainboard Okay, that's not too bad. If you could get an ATI X1950GT or Pro and an extra 512MB of RAM, you could play many games on your PC. An ATI X1600XT or X1650 would also be pretty good and on Nvidia's side a 7600GT or 7900GS would also serve you well. ATI 3650 would be okay too. It's not really faster than an X1950GT or Pro, but it's there, it consumes little power and has good high definition video decoding. The faster cards are out there too, but, considering your system, any dollar payed for one of those cards over the prices of X1950 or 3650 is wasted. Good luck. __________________ If anyone has Portal 2 and hasn't played the co-op and wants to do me a favour, let me know (PM me or whatever).

Nov 4, 2009, 06:40 PM	#16
comp_ali Sniper Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Egypt Posts: 10,469 Rep Power: 339 System Specs	Re: need GPU for old mainboard No need. DDR2 , DDR1 prices are going up in a ridiculous way. Better invest in new system later that , maybe with quad core and nice GPU. __________________

Nov 4, 2009, 07:06 PM	Thread Starter #17
Phenixas HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Lithuania Posts: 32 Rep Power: 0	Re: need GPU for old mainboard thank you guys for all your opinions,but did my board have AGP 8x or only 4x? Last edited by Phenixas; Nov 4, 2009 at 07:52 PM.

Nov 4, 2009, 08:10 PM	#18
IvanV HH Assassin Guild Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,911 Rep Power: 333 System Specs	Re: need GPU for old mainboard Agp 4x __________________ If anyone has Portal 2 and hasn't played the co-op and wants to do me a favour, let me know (PM me or whatever). Last edited by IvanV; Nov 4, 2009 at 10:34 PM.

Nov 4, 2009, 09:21 PM	#19
comp_ali Sniper Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Egypt Posts: 10,469 Rep Power: 339 System Specs	Re: need GPU for old mainboard specific cards with AGP 8x can't run on 4x slot , I don't know about x1650 backward compatibility however . __________________

Nov 4, 2009, 09:26 PM	#20
Bolletje HardwareHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,224 Rep Power: 79 System Specs	Re: need GPU for old mainboard

Nov 4, 2009, 10:21 PM	#21
IvanV HH Assassin Guild Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,911 Rep Power: 333 System Specs	Re: need GPU for old mainboard Oops, that might make the entire previous discussion a bit pointless. __________________ If anyone has Portal 2 and hasn't played the co-op and wants to do me a favour, let me know (PM me or whatever).

Nov 4, 2009, 10:39 PM	#22
Dark Lord HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 5,945 Rep Power: 125 System Specs	Re: need GPU for old mainboard on newegg, the entire 3000 series is listed as being able to run in 4x/8x, with the exception of a powercolor 3650. the HIS 4650s are listed as 4x/8x also. the 1650s are also listed as running in 4x/8x __________________

Nov 4, 2009, 11:25 PM	#23
IvanV HH Assassin Guild Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,911 Rep Power: 333 System Specs	Re: need GPU for old mainboard I read a bit on this after I was corrected about my previous post, all AGP 8x cards can work at 4x speed, but that doesn't necessarily make them compatible with older slots. The issue is that AGP 3.0 standard prescribes 0.8V signaling voltage, while in AGP 2.0 it's 1.5V. All early AGP 3.0 cards were Universal AGP 3.0, meaning that they supported both voltages. I don't know about the later ones. Still, this seems to be a good resource on the issue even though it is dated. All cards listed there are universal, the latest being ATI X1950Pro, which is a very good match for the sistem in question. GeForce 7600 and 7800GS are also listed as compatible. Since I'm fairly sure that that card (the X1950) is a bridged solution (PCI-E GPU communicating to AGP bus through an additional bridge chip) and that ATI has only one version of the bridge chip, it's very likely that all of later ATI AGP cards are compatible with AGP 2.0 (4x) slots as well. This all conforms to one of the basic unwritten rules of assembling PCs, if it fits, it should work. Still, that's not always the case and I've seen reports of problems with some of those cards, with one user even claiming damage to the motherboard from inserting a GF 7600GS into an AGP 4X slot (though this seems to be an unlikely cause to me, because, as stated above, AGP 8x cards work at lower voltage than older slots, so if anything gets fried, it should be the card), so like most things I read on the Internet, I wouldn't bet my life on this. __________________ If anyone has Portal 2 and hasn't played the co-op and wants to do me a favour, let me know (PM me or whatever). Last edited by IvanV; Nov 4, 2009 at 11:45 PM.

Nov 5, 2009, 07:38 AM	Thread Starter #24
Phenixas HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Lithuania Posts: 32 Rep Power: 0	Re: need GPU for old mainboard looks like my system is really outdated,but i don't have enough cash to buy new system so i will upgrade it with new GPU and some RAM

Nov 5, 2009, 09:28 AM	#25
xProg Beatmaker Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Moldova, Chisinau Posts: 301 Rep Power: 31 System Specs	Re: need GPU for old mainboard What CPU do you have Phenixas ? __________________ ¿ pɐǝɥ pǝuǝʞɹɐǝɥ ɥʇıʍ pɹıq ɐ ǝʞıl ƃuıʞool noʎ ǝɹɐ ʇɐɥM

Nov 5, 2009, 09:46 AM	Thread Starter #26
Phenixas HardwareHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Lithuania Posts: 32 Rep Power: 0	Re: need GPU for old mainboard Intel pentitm 4 2.4 Ghz

Nov 5, 2009, 04:13 PM	#28
xProg Beatmaker Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Moldova, Chisinau Posts: 301 Rep Power: 31 System Specs	Re: need GPU for old mainboard you can buy a nvidia geforce 7600gt agp... __________________ ¿ pɐǝɥ pǝuǝʞɹɐǝɥ ɥʇıʍ pɹıq ɐ ǝʞıl ƃuıʞool noʎ ǝɹɐ ʇɐɥM