BWX

Ok, I just wrote this all out and boom, DH trashed my post somehow.. so here's try number TWO.

I need to upgrade the PC I built for my mom quite a few years ago. I built it with a new case and PSU (450w) and a bunch of old stuff back them.. It has an AMD 1800+ first gen on an old Gigabyte GA7DX+ mobo with 2GB PC3200 OCZ ram. It's becoming unstable I think due to age. It just pops off and restarts on its own lateley. Time to upgrade CPU, MOBO, and RAM and need to get a modern PCIe vid card. I also need to use, at least for now, the two IDE hard drives but need to be able to upgrade to SATA later on. I'll be running XP SP3 for a while until I upgrade to Windows 7 sometime in the future.

So I am thinking an AMD multiple core CPU, at least 4GB ram and a MOBO that still can use IDE drives but can upgrade to SATA later on .. and a cheap but modern PCIe video card. Will use onboard sound and NIC card. I just have not been up to speed on PC parts the past few years and don't know what good budget parts are out there and which CPU to buy off the top of my head. I am thinking AMD CPU for best price/performance ratio but I'm not even sure about that.

I've always had good luck with Asus mobos in the past, but maybe now there's just as good but less expensive companies to choose from? Basically I need a good quality bunch of parts to make a decently fast PC to last quite a few years that will eventually be upgraded to Win7 that doesnt cost a fortune that I can use IDE drives with now. It won't be used for gaming, although I want it to be able to run photoshop reasonably well and not be a sluggish POS in 3 years time.

Any suggestions? Remember I already have case, PSU, and peripheral . Need to use IDE drives at first, will run XP now, upgrade to Win7 later. Thanks for any suggestions..

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synthesis204

Here's a quick fix for under $400 - you get 4GB DDR3 1333mhz, a four-core processor @ 2.6Ghz, and a graphics card for $110 that can run most modern games with little issue. The mobo supports PATA...and it's ASUS.

ASUS M4A785TD-V EVO AM3 AMD 785G HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard ($100):
Newegg.com - ASUS M4A785TD-V EVO AM3 AMD 785G HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard

SPARKLE SXS4501024D5SNM GeForce GTS 450 (Fermi) 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card w/ Lifetime Warranty($110):
Newegg.com - SPARKLE SXS4501024D5SNM GeForce GTS 450 (Fermi) 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

GSkill 4GB (2X2GB) Ripjaw 240-pin SDRAM DDR3 1333Mhz ($65):
Newegg.com - G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL9D-4GBRL

AMD Phenom II X4 810 Deneb 2.6GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 4MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Processor HDX810WFGIBOX ($116):
Newegg.com - AMD Phenom II X4 810 Deneb 2.6GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 4MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Processor HDX810WFGIBOX

Total cost: $391.

BWX

Thanks for the info..

*Onboard Video Chipset:ATI Radeon HD 4200 GPU SidePort Memory*
On that mobo is there onboard video?

I'll have to check out if it can use IDE drives too.. but maybe a different AM3 socket mobo? Or is the onboard video just a bonus? Maybe I could get that and not even buy a seperate video card.. no gaming will be done on this PC.. It is for my mom.. but I still want it Winsows 7 capable and reasonably fast in general besides 3D GFX.

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synthesis204

The onboard is just a bonus. It has PATA, but you can try any other Am3 mobo that supports DDR3 1333. I just like ASUS.

And if it's for photoshop, I would recommend against just sticking with the onboard. A 5770 or GTS 450 would probably be your best bet for gfx.

BWX

Yeah I like ASUS too.

ok, about using IDE drives..
is it unrealistic to expexct a new Mobo will have legacy slots for those or should I just get a new PATA or SATA drive and transfer all the stuff that she wants to keep from the 2 IDE drives she has now onto the new one? My older ASUS A8NE has IDE and SATA Slots so I could use that to transfer all the files from the old IDE drives to the nee SATA drives I guess. It would be nice to use them (IDE drives) as they work fine.. I can upgrade later.


It won't be heavily used for photoshop, but I want it to be able to handle photoshop easily when she does use it.

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kris23

give these a whirl...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128444
Newegg.com - Mushkin Enhanced Silverline 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model 991770
Newegg.com - AMD Athlon II X2 255 Regor 3.1GHz 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket AM3 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor ADX255OCGQBOX

you may need a better CPU for photoshop however...

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synthesis204

Then I would recommend a GTS 430, GTS 450, or ATI 5750/5770.

And yeah - most modern boards don't support IDE. I was actually looking for an IDE motherboard on the Egg and gave up. It really is ancient technology -- you can get large sata2 hdd's for cheap now (assuming you dont mind 5400rpm - 7200 is a tad more expensive, but not by much). Sata dvd/cd burners are also very cheap now too.


@kris: I think he would need at least a three-core (pref 4+) processor for actually doing work in PS. And on second thought, that gigabyte board looks to be a better bang for buck (sata3/usb3, not that you need that).

kris23

the majority of boards do indeed have support for IDE still, however they only have a maximum of 2 supported... meaning that you can either only use your two hard drives and a sata drive...

or give up 1 drive for a disk drive. im just assuming your disk drive is IDE as well

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BWX

Yup the disk drive (a DVD burner) is IDE also.. But I guess I could just use the IDE slots for the HD temporarily to transfer data needed to be saved from old IDE drives to a new sata drive (or PATA) and then use the new SATA HD alone. Then I could hook DVD IDE drive back up to IDE.

I'm just trying to figure out if that MoBo has any IDE slots on it at all. I definitely need a couple at least for my DVD drive..

I am thinking for this application onboard video is the way to go and will save $.

Oh, and I'll need a CPU heat-sink and fan too.. is it cheaper to buy CPU without one and buy one seperately now or better to just buy the CPU that is supplied with the heatsink-fan?

As you can tell I haven't built a PC for quite a few years now...

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kris23

majority of CPUs come with HSFs only server CPUs and other odd ones dont.

AMD desktop ones all come with them.

all boards recommended have 1 IDE header so youre good for 2 IDE drives.

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BWX

Cool, I think I am going to buy that mobo, CPU, and RAM. I like Amazon's return policy better than NewEgg's incase something doesn't work.. but these prices look ok.

I still need a good compatible SATA or PATA Hard Drive I guess.

Will a 450w PSU with 20a x 2 12volt rails be enough?

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kris23

more than enough, but before you go and buy, see if a quad core athlon II is within your reach... it will help.

your PSU may need a 4 pin power to 8 pin adapter if the CPU requires alot of power.

Newegg.com - Rosewill 9.5" EPS 8-Pin Male to ATX 4-Pin Female Cable with Cable Sleeve Model RCA-RU9.5-P8M-P4F

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BWX

ok, I'll check that out. Thanks!

What do you think about this for a HD?
Newegg.com - Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

I bought a 1TB WD Black series drive for my DVR quite a few months ago and it has been great..

Edit~
She'll never need more space.

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kris23

drive is solid, get it if you want!

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BWX

OOPS -- I am on my PS3 browser at the moment. I missed post 6. I'll need to check that stuff out too.

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Veridian3

Quick question... are you sure the PSU is ok? You say the existing system just turns itself off randomly, that can be the sign of a dodgy PSU.

Might be as well to replace that too, especially if saving money by using onboard gfx.

This is on offer just now: Amazon.com: Corsair CMPSU-450VX 450-Watt VX Series 80 Plus Certified Power Supply compatible with Core i7 and Core i5: Electronics

or

http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-430-Wa...9078985&sr=8-3

BWX

Yeah I am not sure that the PSU is not the problem. It is the newest, by far, component in that PC though. I mean the mobo is 10 years old and so is the CPU. The RAM is newer from my last PC build for testing (Rig in profile)

I changed out the ram, video, audio and it still does it. It needs upgrading real bad anyway, but it may very well be the PSU that is the problem. It isn't total junk, it's a dual 12v rail 450w Rosewill that came with a half decent case. What I will do, is if the PSU is the problem, when I build the new PC I will know right away and I'll buy a new one first thing.

Thanks for PSU links, they look like good deals. If I need one I will get one of those, they look like good quality for a good price. Exactly what I am looking for with this upgrade.

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BWX

Actually if that PSU doesn't have the correct power connection for the new Mobos, I will just get a new PSU right away. I think it may actually have the extra 4pin connector though, I will have to check.

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BWX

***the mobo****

If I get that 6x SATA HD, I should get a mobo that supports it and that has onboard video too. I think if I can find a good deal on that it may be worth the upgrade.

I have my first vid card I ever bought in that PC now, an Nvidia geforce 2 GTS 32MB AGP. It still works but no YouTube HD. I think any onboard Video will be way better.. even if it does use shared RAM.

Just think how old that stuff is in there now. It still works surprisingly well for email and browsing actually, but imagine how fast this new setup will be compared to it. My mom's going to be in computing heaven!

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Liqourice

I've got the Asus M4A785TD-M EVO in my HTPC and it works just great. Got no issues with it. Don't really know what the difference is between the M and the V but I'm guessing the V is ATX while my M is mATX.

On that I've got an Ahtlon II X2 240 and it's doing a great job, I'm actually gaming on it a bit. Though, for heavier apps a bit better CPU is probably needed.

However. Lots of memory is more important when it comes to programs like Photoshop. The more the better. A fast CPU doesn't help much if you're low on ram... on the other hand, plenty of ram makes the need of a really fast cpu less important.

In all honesty, with the built-in GFX you'll do fine with Photoshop and similar programs, you don't really need a discrete card. I built a few rigs for an ad firm a few years ago and they have older and less advanced gfx than the 785G chipset delivers and they're all happy with it. You can even do some simple gaming on it, many older games work just fine on it.

Don't want you to waste more money than necessary. Spend the money on getting Win7 64 from scratch instead, it's well worth it. I've never been a windows fan but 7 is definately the best they've delivered. 64 bit as well to be able to use more ram...

BWX

Thanks Liqourice for suggestions.

I think I'm going to go with that Phenom II
Newegg.com - AMD Phenom II X4 810 Deneb 2.6GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 4MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Processor HDX810WFGIBOX

The WD Black HD
Newegg.com - Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

Mushkin or G.SKILL Ripjaws Series RAM- whichever works best with the setup I end up with
Newegg.com - G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL9D-4GBRL
Newegg.com - Mushkin Enhanced Silverline 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model 991770

Now on the MoBo...
either the ASUS M4A785TD-V EVO AM3 AMD 785G HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard
Newegg.com - ASUS M4A785TD-V EVO AM3 AMD 785G HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard
---but no SATA 6gb/sec $99

***OR***
I found this one below for $139
ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3 AM3 AMD 890GX HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard
Newegg.com - ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3 AM3 AMD 890GX HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard

---BUT, I don't think it has an IDE slot which I want so that may be out of the question which sucks. I'm going to use an IDE DVD drive and also one 250GB IDE in the machine for a backup drive.
-wait a sec. it says "1 x ATA133 2 Dev. Max" <--- that's the IDE right? I can't see it in the pic.

***OR***
The other Gigabyte mentioned above.
GIGABYTE GA-880GA-UD3H AM3 AMD 880G HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard
Newegg.com - GIGABYTE GA-880GA-UD3H AM3 AMD 880G HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard

That looks similar to the Asus w/ SATA 6GB/sec.. correct? It's over $40 cheaper at $94.99.

Is the ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3 any better than the Gigabyte?
Is there something I'm not seeing? I like both companies, but I do want the best I can get within reason. She will probably have this PC for the next 6 years at least unless it breaks. My builds do usually last though *knock on wood ;-)

Oh, and I will upgrade to more RAM in the future I am sure.

Again, Thanks all for suggestions!! I'm really going to be able to build a nice fast PC for my mom.. she's gonna love it.

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kris23

all those boards have IDE

a 4 gig single stick will be much easier to upgrade than two 2GB sticks but will operate in single-channel so there will be less memory bandwidth. the loss in bandwidth however, is not noticeable.

the 890GX board has support for 8x/8x crossfireX, the 880G does not.

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BWX

Ok, well I'll never run crossfire, hell I probably won't even put a separate video card in it. It seems out of those 3 mobos, the Gigabyte w/ SATA 6gb/sec is the best for my application. I'll look into a 4GB stick- thx for help., I didn't even think of that.

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BWX

I am just now placing my order for the pc upgrade. This is going to be a really nice PC that should last for a long time and have a nice bit of upgradability if needed in the future.

After a Win 7 64bit install sometime in the future, another 4GB ram stick will probably be going in.. thats about it for a while. I got the Coolermaster PSU because it's modular, which I like, and one single 40amp 12v rail is pretty solid. Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction.


ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3 AM3 AMD 890GX HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard
Newegg.com - ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3 AM3 AMD 890GX HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard

COOLER MASTER Silent Pro M600 RS-600-AMBA-D3 600W ATX12V V2.3 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
Newegg.com - COOLER MASTER Silent Pro M600 RS-600-AMBA-D3 600W ATX12V V2.3 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply

AMD Phenom II X4 810 Deneb 2.6GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 4MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Processor HDX810WFGIBOX
Newegg.com - AMD Phenom II X4 810 Deneb 2.6GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 4MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Processor HDX810WFGIBOX

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL9S-4GBRL
Newegg.com - G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL9S-4GBRL

Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
Newegg.com - Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

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blibbax

Nice

Worth keeping in mind that a lot of newer mobos with IDE support can only support two devices... found that out at my cost

Also people... stop making crossfire/gaming GPU suggestions, it's his mum :P

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Liqourice

What? You don't think women over a certain age play games?

blibbax

Based on vast empirical evidence, I indeed don't :P

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Judas

i'd seriously consider an Asus P7H55-M Pro with an i3 530 cpu and a 2x2gb DDR3 Patriot PC10666 kit...

only had one pata ide.. though.. but slap a cheap 20 dollar SATA DVD-RW drive in it and that's no problemo...

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BWX

I got that nice new 1TB WD SATA 6 GB/sec drive, so the one IDE slot is fine. I will be hooking her DVD R drive and one 250GB IDE HD up to that port strictly for backup. I got it all deliverd today.

The mobo, RAM, and PSU are especially cool looking and look to be very high quality. Will be putting it together soon....

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Veridian3

PICS!