Did Asus Just Give Me The General We Don't Know Answer?

digerati · Jul 31, 2003, 11:01 PM

I purchased a brand new AMD Barton 2500 with the 333fsb and some Corsair XMS PC3200 series ram and put them in my revision 1.04 board and updated the bios revision to 1004 and the motherboard won't post if the FSB are synched at 166. I've tried upping the voltage to the ram and cpu and nada. But if I leave the FSB on the CPU to 166 and set the Memory speed to 120% (which is 200mhz) it will post fine. But the if the memory speed is lower than the CPU then it won't post. I'm now running the system with CPU - 166 and Memory - 200 I'd like to get them synched so I can properly configure this puppy.

System Config:

Asus A7N8X Deluxe
100 gig Western Digital Special Edition
1x512 Corsair XMS PC3200
Barton 2500 w/ 333FSB
Sony DRU-500ax
Ati Radeon 8500DV
480 Watt Antec True Blue PS
Sound Blaster Audigy 2
Windows XP Professional

Dear Sir/Madam,
Thank you for your support of our products!
The problem you are reporting is a stability issue and is usually caused by either the memory, power supply or the CPU running too hot. Please check with the memory maker to see if the module you are using has been tested or certified with the chipset on your motherboard. Also, check that your power supply can supply enough power for your system configuration and that your CPU's heatsink and fan are properly installed.
First, please check that your CPU is not overheating. You can check this in the BIOS setup, under Power, then Hardware Monitor. If the CPU is overheating, please check that your heatsink and fan are properly installed and that you are using exactly one heat transfer agent between the CPU and heatsink (ex. Artic Silver). Make sure that the heatsink compound is applied ONLY to the CPU die and that it is NOT shorting any surface mount components on top of the CPU or contacting the CPU's pins.
Please check http://www.asus.com/support/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx to verify that your board will properly support the CPU that you have. This link will list the minimum BIOS and PCB version that you must have to PROPERLY support your CPU.
If you are having trouble with stability, you can try some testing software like memtest86 to test the memory you have. http://www.memtest86.com/ When run, this program will create a bootable floppy. Boot from this disk and let it complete at least 1 pass (7 sub-tests) of the test.
Please ask the memory manufacturer the following questions:
Have you done any certification testing with this memory module and our MB (motherboard) or any MB using the same chipset at the density you are trying to use (ex. 3*512MB DIMMS totaling 1.5GB of memory)?
If the answer is no and they just build to a certain specification/standard, then who's specification/standard do they use and how do they validate their design? If they just build the memory and do not validate it how do they know it will perform?
When we design our MB we follow the chipset makers spec. with regards to memory.
We do validate the memory IC maker's reference designs with our MB to make sure they are up to spec. and if we need to add support for Higher density IC.
Most memory module makers do not follow the IC maker's reference designs so they can use whom ever IC's on their memory Module. There is nothing wrong with this, but the problem is if they deviate from the IC makers reference designs and or even if they use the IC makers reference they should do some level of validation to insure quality.
We are one of the largest MB makers so one would think that if you were making a product you would test your product with the most popular associated products.
Here is a list of memory manufacturers that use our MB's as well as others to do this type of testing and also will post a guarantee that their memory will work in our MB's as well as others. Please check the following websites for compatibility:
www.corsairmicro.com
www.unigen.com
www.smartm.com
www.mushkin.com
Also, here are some setup tips that may help you to set up the system.
Please start by clearing the system c-mos memory following the procedure in your manual. Make sure the power AND the battery on the motherboard is removed before shorting the CLR RTC solder points or jumper pins.
You may need to refer to the "Interrupt Request Table" in your manual and arrange your PCI add-in cards so they do not cause interrupt conflicts. Some devices just do not get along with each other. You may also remove your PCI cards to see if this corrects the problem. If it does, add the cards back one by one to see which card is causing the problem. Anytime you add, move, or remove a PCI card, please enter BIOS setup and set the option "Reset Configuration Data" to "Yes" if your BIOS has this option. This will force the BIOS to reassign resources to your PnP devices.
Next, enter Bios Setup and load setup defaults.
Under Boot, if needed, please set the BOOT order. Then set "Reset Configuration Data" To "YES".
DDR memory's RAW clock speed is actually 1/2 of its advertised rate. PC3200 memory could run up to 200 MHz RAW frequency.
The system usually runs better when the CPU FSB and the memory are at the same speed. Also, please be sure to use the two BLUE memory sockets for dual channel support.
Please start with the BIOS setup defaults. Then, under Advanced Chipset features, set up your CPU Ext Freq to 1/2 its rated FSB rating (Ex, 166 for 333 FSB CPU and 200 for a 400 MHz FSB).
Next, set the SYSTEM PERFORMANCE to USER DEFINE. Next, calculate the memory freq percentage. Take the desired memory frequency and divide it by the FSB of the CPU to get a percentage and set it to that. Be sure to use either RAW FREQUENCY or ADVERTISED FREQUENCY, but DO NOT MIX THEM in the calculation. For example, if you want to run your memory at DDR400 and you have a 333 FSB CPU, take 200 MHz / 166 MHz CPU FSB and you get 120 %. We have, however, had better performance and stability by running the CPU's FSB and the memory frequency in sync (100%). Enter this percentage into the MEMORY FREQUENCY field.
Any other changes you need to make for your specific system configuration please do so at this time.
Next, exit "Saving Changes" and this should correct the issue.
Also for Windows 9X or ME, they have some issues with CPU speeds greater than 2.1 GHz (see MS Q312108) or memory above 512 MB total system memory (see MS Q253912). These O.S. cannot cache the memory properly. If your CPU is greater than 2.1 GHz, you will need to contact Microsoft Product Support Services to obtain a patch to correct this issue.
Here are some links for common memory related problems:
Err Msg: "Out of Memory" Error Messages with Large Amounts of RAM Installed
http://support.microsoft.com/default...;en-us;q253912
Err Msg: Windows Protection Error in NDIS with a CPU That Is Faster Than 2.1 GHz
http://support.microsoft.com/default...;en-us;q312108
Err Msg: While Initializing Device NTKERN: Windows Protection...
http://support.microsoft.com/default...;EN-US;q192397
Err Msg: Insufficient Memory to Initialize Windows
http://support.microsoft.com/default...;EN-US;q184447
Computer May Reboot Continuously with More Than 1.5 GB of RAM
http://support.microsoft.com/default...;EN-US;q304943
Computer Speed and Performance May Decrease
http://support.microsoft.com/default...;EN-US;q259161
Err Msg: Not Enough Extended Memory Available to Run Windows
http://support.microsoft.com/default...;EN-US;q311367
Troubleshooting Stop 0x24 or NTFS_FILE_SYSTEM Error Messages
http://support.microsoft.com/default...;EN-US;q228888

Make sure you have a FRESH install of your OS on THIS motherboard and that the drive was partitioned and formatted on this motherboard. Make sure that you install the most recent drivers in the following order:
1) Chipset/Motherboard drivers (Example, VIA 4 in 1's for VIA chipsets, Intel INF and Application Accelerator for Intel chipsets, Etc.) Do this BEFORE loading any other driver!
2) Latest version of Direct X.
3) Latest Video Card drivers.
4) SCSI/ATA drivers
5) Lan/NIC drivers
6) Modem drivers, then any other drivers
7) Finally, install sound card drivers last.

Also, please check to make sure your power supply can supply enough power to your system.
If the CPU is below 700 MHz, the power supply we suggest as follows:
300 Watts with +5 Volt @ 25 amps, +12 Volt @ 10 amps, and +3.3 Volt @ 14 amps.
If the CPU speed is above 700MHz, the power supply we suggest as follows:
350 Watt with +5V @ 30 amps, +12V @ 12 amps, and +3.3V @ 22 amps.
For Dual Intel MB, Min. P.S. should be:
350 Watt with +5V @ 35 amps, +12V @ 15 amps, and +3.3V @ 22 amps.
For Dual AMD MB, Min. P.S. should be:
400 Watt with +5V @ 38 amps, +12V @ 15 amps, and +3.3V @ 20 amps.
Please note that these are only suggestions and the actual size of the power supply may be higher than we suggest. Also, depending on the config of your system, you may need more power than listed above. For example, running multiple hard drives, CR-Rom drives or other accessories may increase the power requirements of your system!

If that still doesn't work, then please check that the MB is not picking up EMI interference or improperly grounding against the case. Please remove the MB from the case and set it up DIRECTLY on the cardboard box it came in or some other non-static, non-conductive surface like a telephone book. Connect up everything to the MB and see if the problem persists. If this corrects the problem, you will need to electrically isolate the MB from the case. You will need to use electrical tape over the brass stand-offs that support the MB to the case and use the red paper washers between the screw heads and the MB. The red paper washers should have came with your case hardware or they can be purchased at Radio Shack or a computer store. Also double check that a motherboard standoff is NOT placed in a spot where the motherboard is not designed to be grounded, as some cases will have different standoff locations to accommodate different styled of motherboards. Also check that there are no other metal objects that could contact the motherboard or any other electrical device attached to the system, such as a metal burr, loose screw, metal rod, or any other object that could cause a short.

Please reply to this e-mail or call 502-995-0883 if you need further assistance.
Best Regards,
Technical Support Team
NT001

Davidgt · Jul 31, 2003, 11:56 PM

Did you try everything they suggested?

mike2h · Aug 1, 2003, 12:06 AM

yep!

digerati · Aug 1, 2003, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Davidgt
Did you try everything they suggested?

I tried re-installing OS, wiping out c-mos, changed coolers from dragon orb 3 to sk-7, I mean geez.

The_Neon_Cowboy · Aug 1, 2003, 12:00 PM

are you running the latest bios? 1004

sounds like old bios issues ...

Davidgt · Aug 1, 2003, 02:26 PM

^_^ we have almopst the same config except i have xms pc3500 and a raddy 9700 but same mobo etx... and this is what i want ya to do. Set your multiplyer at 10 your fsb at 200 ram at 100% trust me this is the best config for your mobo and ram. that pc3200 is rated @ 200fsb @2-2-2-5-2

digerati · Aug 1, 2003, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Neon_Cowboy
are you running the latest bios? 1004
sounds like old bios issues ...

Quote:

Originally posted by ^_^
I purchased a brand new AMD Barton 2500 with the 333fsb and some Corsair XMS PC3200 series ram and put them in my revision 1.04 board and updated the bios revision to 1004 and the motherboard won't post if the FSB are synched at 166.

I said I was in the first part of my first post..

digerati · Aug 2, 2003, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Davidgt
^_^ we have almopst the same config except i have xms pc3500 and a raddy 9700 but same mobo etx... and this is what i want ya to do. Set your multiplyer at 10 your fsb at 200 ram at 100% trust me this is the best config for your mobo and ram. that pc3200 is rated @ 200fsb @2-2-2-5-2

I just tried it to make sure and no go, if it's at 100% at anything it won't post.

Jul 31, 2003, 11:01 PM	#1
digerati Everyones life has worth Join Date: May 2003 Location: My Yellow Bug Posts: 3,779 Rep Power: 61	Did Asus Just Give Me The General We Don't Know Answer? I purchased a brand new AMD Barton 2500 with the 333fsb and some Corsair XMS PC3200 series ram and put them in my revision 1.04 board and updated the bios revision to 1004 and the motherboard won't post if the FSB are synched at 166. I've tried upping the voltage to the ram and cpu and nada. But if I leave the FSB on the CPU to 166 and set the Memory speed to 120% (which is 200mhz) it will post fine. But the if the memory speed is lower than the CPU then it won't post. I'm now running the system with CPU - 166 and Memory - 200 I'd like to get them synched so I can properly configure this puppy. System Config: Asus A7N8X Deluxe 100 gig Western Digital Special Edition 1x512 Corsair XMS PC3200 Barton 2500 w/ 333FSB Sony DRU-500ax Ati Radeon 8500DV 480 Watt Antec True Blue PS Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Windows XP Professional Dear Sir/Madam, Thank you for your support of our products! The problem you are reporting is a stability issue and is usually caused by either the memory, power supply or the CPU running too hot. Please check with the memory maker to see if the module you are using has been tested or certified with the chipset on your motherboard. Also, check that your power supply can supply enough power for your system configuration and that your CPU's heatsink and fan are properly installed. First, please check that your CPU is not overheating. You can check this in the BIOS setup, under Power, then Hardware Monitor. If the CPU is overheating, please check that your heatsink and fan are properly installed and that you are using exactly one heat transfer agent between the CPU and heatsink (ex. Artic Silver). Make sure that the heatsink compound is applied ONLY to the CPU die and that it is NOT shorting any surface mount components on top of the CPU or contacting the CPU's pins. Please check http://www.asus.com/support/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx to verify that your board will properly support the CPU that you have. This link will list the minimum BIOS and PCB version that you must have to PROPERLY support your CPU. If you are having trouble with stability, you can try some testing software like memtest86 to test the memory you have. http://www.memtest86.com/ When run, this program will create a bootable floppy. Boot from this disk and let it complete at least 1 pass (7 sub-tests) of the test. Please ask the memory manufacturer the following questions: Have you done any certification testing with this memory module and our MB (motherboard) or any MB using the same chipset at the density you are trying to use (ex. 3*512MB DIMMS totaling 1.5GB of memory)? If the answer is no and they just build to a certain specification/standard, then who's specification/standard do they use and how do they validate their design? If they just build the memory and do not validate it how do they know it will perform? When we design our MB we follow the chipset makers spec. with regards to memory. We do validate the memory IC maker's reference designs with our MB to make sure they are up to spec. and if we need to add support for Higher density IC. Most memory module makers do not follow the IC maker's reference designs so they can use whom ever IC's on their memory Module. There is nothing wrong with this, but the problem is if they deviate from the IC makers reference designs and or even if they use the IC makers reference they should do some level of validation to insure quality. We are one of the largest MB makers so one would think that if you were making a product you would test your product with the most popular associated products. Here is a list of memory manufacturers that use our MB's as well as others to do this type of testing and also will post a guarantee that their memory will work in our MB's as well as others. Please check the following websites for compatibility: www.corsairmicro.com www.unigen.com www.smartm.com www.mushkin.com Also, here are some setup tips that may help you to set up the system. Please start by clearing the system c-mos memory following the procedure in your manual. Make sure the power AND the battery on the motherboard is removed before shorting the CLR RTC solder points or jumper pins. You may need to refer to the "Interrupt Request Table" in your manual and arrange your PCI add-in cards so they do not cause interrupt conflicts. Some devices just do not get along with each other. You may also remove your PCI cards to see if this corrects the problem. If it does, add the cards back one by one to see which card is causing the problem. Anytime you add, move, or remove a PCI card, please enter BIOS setup and set the option "Reset Configuration Data" to "Yes" if your BIOS has this option. This will force the BIOS to reassign resources to your PnP devices. Next, enter Bios Setup and load setup defaults. Under Boot, if needed, please set the BOOT order. Then set "Reset Configuration Data" To "YES". DDR memory's RAW clock speed is actually 1/2 of its advertised rate. PC3200 memory could run up to 200 MHz RAW frequency. The system usually runs better when the CPU FSB and the memory are at the same speed. Also, please be sure to use the two BLUE memory sockets for dual channel support. Please start with the BIOS setup defaults. Then, under Advanced Chipset features, set up your CPU Ext Freq to 1/2 its rated FSB rating (Ex, 166 for 333 FSB CPU and 200 for a 400 MHz FSB). Next, set the SYSTEM PERFORMANCE to USER DEFINE. Next, calculate the memory freq percentage. Take the desired memory frequency and divide it by the FSB of the CPU to get a percentage and set it to that. Be sure to use either RAW FREQUENCY or ADVERTISED FREQUENCY, but DO NOT MIX THEM in the calculation. For example, if you want to run your memory at DDR400 and you have a 333 FSB CPU, take 200 MHz / 166 MHz CPU FSB and you get 120 %. We have, however, had better performance and stability by running the CPU's FSB and the memory frequency in sync (100%). Enter this percentage into the MEMORY FREQUENCY field. Any other changes you need to make for your specific system configuration please do so at this time. Next, exit "Saving Changes" and this should correct the issue. Also for Windows 9X or ME, they have some issues with CPU speeds greater than 2.1 GHz (see MS Q312108) or memory above 512 MB total system memory (see MS Q253912). These O.S. cannot cache the memory properly. If your CPU is greater than 2.1 GHz, you will need to contact Microsoft Product Support Services to obtain a patch to correct this issue. Here are some links for common memory related problems: Err Msg: "Out of Memory" Error Messages with Large Amounts of RAM Installed http://support.microsoft.com/default...;en-us;q253912 Err Msg: Windows Protection Error in NDIS with a CPU That Is Faster Than 2.1 GHz http://support.microsoft.com/default...;en-us;q312108 Err Msg: While Initializing Device NTKERN: Windows Protection... http://support.microsoft.com/default...;EN-US;q192397 Err Msg: Insufficient Memory to Initialize Windows http://support.microsoft.com/default...;EN-US;q184447 Computer May Reboot Continuously with More Than 1.5 GB of RAM http://support.microsoft.com/default...;EN-US;q304943 Computer Speed and Performance May Decrease http://support.microsoft.com/default...;EN-US;q259161 Err Msg: Not Enough Extended Memory Available to Run Windows http://support.microsoft.com/default...;EN-US;q311367 Troubleshooting Stop 0x24 or NTFS_FILE_SYSTEM Error Messages http://support.microsoft.com/default...;EN-US;q228888 Make sure you have a FRESH install of your OS on THIS motherboard and that the drive was partitioned and formatted on this motherboard. Make sure that you install the most recent drivers in the following order: 1) Chipset/Motherboard drivers (Example, VIA 4 in 1's for VIA chipsets, Intel INF and Application Accelerator for Intel chipsets, Etc.) Do this BEFORE loading any other driver! 2) Latest version of Direct X. 3) Latest Video Card drivers. 4) SCSI/ATA drivers 5) Lan/NIC drivers 6) Modem drivers, then any other drivers 7) Finally, install sound card drivers last. Also, please check to make sure your power supply can supply enough power to your system. If the CPU is below 700 MHz, the power supply we suggest as follows: 300 Watts with +5 Volt @ 25 amps, +12 Volt @ 10 amps, and +3.3 Volt @ 14 amps. If the CPU speed is above 700MHz, the power supply we suggest as follows: 350 Watt with +5V @ 30 amps, +12V @ 12 amps, and +3.3V @ 22 amps. For Dual Intel MB, Min. P.S. should be: 350 Watt with +5V @ 35 amps, +12V @ 15 amps, and +3.3V @ 22 amps. For Dual AMD MB, Min. P.S. should be: 400 Watt with +5V @ 38 amps, +12V @ 15 amps, and +3.3V @ 20 amps. Please note that these are only suggestions and the actual size of the power supply may be higher than we suggest. Also, depending on the config of your system, you may need more power than listed above. For example, running multiple hard drives, CR-Rom drives or other accessories may increase the power requirements of your system! If that still doesn't work, then please check that the MB is not picking up EMI interference or improperly grounding against the case. Please remove the MB from the case and set it up DIRECTLY on the cardboard box it came in or some other non-static, non-conductive surface like a telephone book. Connect up everything to the MB and see if the problem persists. If this corrects the problem, you will need to electrically isolate the MB from the case. You will need to use electrical tape over the brass stand-offs that support the MB to the case and use the red paper washers between the screw heads and the MB. The red paper washers should have came with your case hardware or they can be purchased at Radio Shack or a computer store. Also double check that a motherboard standoff is NOT placed in a spot where the motherboard is not designed to be grounded, as some cases will have different standoff locations to accommodate different styled of motherboards. Also check that there are no other metal objects that could contact the motherboard or any other electrical device attached to the system, such as a metal burr, loose screw, metal rod, or any other object that could cause a short. Please reply to this e-mail or call 502-995-0883 if you need further assistance. Best Regards, Technical Support Team NT001

Jul 31, 2003, 11:56 PM	#2
Davidgt Car Audio Guy Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Atlanta, Ga Posts: 499 Rep Power: 0	Did you try everything they suggested? __________________ Sales/Support Manager Taraautosound.com wonderful sig by tastyweat

Aug 1, 2003, 12:06 AM	#3
mike2h DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: norcal Posts: 6,483 Rep Power: 89 System Specs	yep! __________________

Aug 1, 2003, 12:00 PM	#5
The_Neon_Cowboy HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 16,009 Rep Power: 90 System Specs	are you running the latest bios? 1004 sounds like old bios issues ... __________________

Aug 1, 2003, 02:26 PM	#6
Davidgt Car Audio Guy Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Atlanta, Ga Posts: 499 Rep Power: 0	^_^ we have almopst the same config except i have xms pc3500 and a raddy 9700 but same mobo etx... and this is what i want ya to do. Set your multiplyer at 10 your fsb at 200 ram at 100% trust me this is the best config for your mobo and ram. that pc3200 is rated @ 200fsb @2-2-2-5-2 __________________ Sales/Support Manager Taraautosound.com wonderful sig by tastyweat