question about MP3s

~~craig588~~ · Sep 7, 2003, 09:00 PM

I just got an equalizer and it seems that if I drop the 16KHz slider all the way down the sound quality will be improved greatly with all of the strange little noises I normally associate with MP3s completely removed. I was wondering why this happens, does the MP3 format screw up the 16KHz range of music? Is their something wrong with my amp or soundcard?

If thats true I need to find a new format to rip my cds to. (Yes I acctually buy cds, I only store them in mp3 format because its so much easier than looking for a cd I want to listen to)

Necrosis · Sep 8, 2003, 01:32 AM

My guess it would have to do with the actual compression algorithm. You should give Ogg Vorbis a try, most users seem to love it including myself.

PoopyTheJ · Sep 8, 2003, 01:49 AM

Ogg Rocks! BTW thats the compression the Unreal games use at least thats what UT2k3 and Unreal II used. I would guess UT2k4 will as well.

~~craig588~~ · Sep 8, 2003, 02:03 AM

yeah, I just found a site that expalined all of the flaws, it cuts off everything above about 14KHz.

http://www.geocities.com/cfr707/mp3.htm

JLP · Sep 8, 2003, 04:29 PM

Yup you should definitely encode into Ogg Vornis. It gives you much better sounding files for same size or much smaller files for same quality. And the format is quite a bit more advanced then MP3 and totally open and free.

Matth · Sep 8, 2003, 08:50 PM

Depends on the codec - some MP3 encoders cut hard at 16kHz - THEY should not produce grotty artifacts though, as if anything at those frequencies is there, it will just be dropped.

Others vary it with the settings, or have an option.

If your talking about results from already encoded mp3's, they can have some spitching and general unpleasantness - and some encoders are just plain defective.

A GOOD encoder, at an adequate bitrate, should be able to beat ABX - if LAME using alt-preset-extreme (or even standard) is not transparent to you, then congratulate yourself on having excellent auditory discrimination - and join in some encoder testing!

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org - the place to be if you're into audio!

Vampyromaniac · Sep 9, 2003, 08:58 AM

Yes if you are using a crap encoder, the files will sound like crap. A lot of people I know just use Musicmatch, they never look thru the settings, and the default bandwidth is 16kHz, and then wonder why the files don't sound good. Then they hear my Lame mp3's and say they sound just like the CD

~~craig588~~ · Sep 11, 2003, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Matth
Depends on the codec - some MP3 encoders cut hard at 16kHz - THEY should not produce grotty artifacts though, as if anything at those frequencies is there, it will just be dropped.

Others vary it with the settings, or have an option.

If your talking about results from already encoded mp3's, they can have some spitching and general unpleasantness - and some encoders are just plain defective.

A GOOD encoder, at an adequate bitrate, should be able to beat ABX - if LAME using alt-preset-extreme (or even standard) is not transparent to you, then congratulate yourself on having excellent auditory discrimination - and join in some encoder testing!

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org - the place to be if you're into audio!

I have always been using right click MP3 because its free and so easy to use.

I do have a very good sound system too, harmon/kardon amp, polk audio speakers. I just added this technics 14 band equilizer. (I know its not that great, but it was my first purchase of an equualizer and I didn't want to go overboard if it wouldn't do much for me)

I'll check out that site.

Matth · Sep 11, 2003, 05:28 PM

A quick word about the LAME PRESETS - the Main (and highly tuned) alt-presets are variable bitrate.

--alt-preset EXTREME - averages about 250 kbit/s, quality exceeds constant bitrate 256
--alt-preset STANDARD - averages about 190 kbit/s, and better than CBR 192

--alt-preset (number) - average bitrate mode, generally better than
--alt-preset CBR (number) - constant birate - but useful if your usage demands CBR.

There is also a custom DLL version, where certain quality settings are mapped to alt-presets

There is also a Windows ACM version, but it can be hard to find, and has not been subjected to the same tuning

Vampyromaniac · Sep 12, 2003, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Matth
A quick word about the LAME PRESETS - the Main (and highly tuned) alt-presets are variable bitrate.

--alt-preset EXTREME - averages about 250 kbit/s, quality exceeds constant bitrate 256
--alt-preset STANDARD - averages about 190 kbit/s, and better than CBR 192

--alt-preset (number) - average bitrate mode, generally better than
--alt-preset CBR (number) - constant birate - but useful if your usage demands CBR.

and don't forget:
--r3mix

Matth · Sep 12, 2003, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vampyromaniac
and don't forget:
--r3mix

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?showtopic=43&

DO forget r3mix!

It seems the dm (Dibrom) presets are now the alt-presets - and leverage opotions that my not even be available in standard commandline, whereas the r3mix preset is really only a potted set of commandline settings.

General advice on H-audio, is to use the alt presets , and unless specifically advised, DON'T mess with any other settings.
(in rare cases, if you KNOW the material has no centre, forcing full stereo will increase speed, but the alt presets use --nssafejoint, so are probably aggressive enough in switching from M-S to L-R if needed)

RIV@NVX · Sep 12, 2003, 09:34 PM

I personally prefer MPC over MP3, because of almost transparent quality at much lower bitrate. You should give it a try.

Sep 7, 2003, 09:00 PM	#1
~~craig588~~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: In clothing Posts: 3,510 Rep Power: 0	question about MP3s I just got an equalizer and it seems that if I drop the 16KHz slider all the way down the sound quality will be improved greatly with all of the strange little noises I normally associate with MP3s completely removed. I was wondering why this happens, does the MP3 format screw up the 16KHz range of music? Is their something wrong with my amp or soundcard? If thats true I need to find a new format to rip my cds to. (Yes I acctually buy cds, I only store them in mp3 format because its so much easier than looking for a cd I want to listen to)

Sep 8, 2003, 01:49 AM	#3
PoopyTheJ DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,588 Rep Power: 66	Ogg Rocks! BTW thats the compression the Unreal games use at least thats what UT2k3 and Unreal II used. I would guess UT2k4 will as well. __________________ [COLOR=Blue]“Alright boys, let’s start her up and see why she doesn’t work.” - John Fritz "I aim to misbehave" Malcolm Reynolds ATI Catalyst Beta Tester[/COLOR]

Sep 8, 2003, 04:29 PM	#5
JLP DriverHeaven Lover Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Slovenia Posts: 249 Rep Power: 0	Ogg Vorbis rocks Yup you should definitely encode into Ogg Vornis. It gives you much better sounding files for same size or much smaller files for same quality. And the format is quite a bit more advanced then MP3 and totally open and free.

Sep 9, 2003, 08:58 AM	#7
Vampyromaniac confutatis maledictis Join Date: May 2002 Location: somewhere dark Posts: 5,974 Rep Power: 77 System Specs	Yes if you are using a crap encoder, the files will sound like crap. A lot of people I know just use Musicmatch, they never look thru the settings, and the default bandwidth is 16kHz, and then wonder why the files don't sound good. Then they hear my Lame mp3's and say they sound just like the CD __________________ *Digitalis 3.3* Athlon 64 3000 // ASUS K8V SE Deluxe // 1024MB PC3200 (2-2-2-10 1T) ATI All-In-Wonder 9700 Pro // 20" Dell 2005FPW (DVI) M-Audio Revo 7.1 + Philips Acoustic Edge // Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 320/16 Western Digital WD3200KS + 120/8 Seagate 7200.7 NEC ND-3550A 16x DVD±RW + Lite-On 52x24x CD-RW Antec Sonata case // 480W Antec TruePower personal bests \|\| Aq'3: 46796 \| 3D'01: 20461 \| 3D'03: 6336 \| 3D'05: 2677 \| PC'04: 4605 \| PC'02: 7691,9092,1250

Sep 12, 2003, 09:34 PM	#12
RIV@NVX Freedom is a feature. Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Croatia, Rijeka Posts: 4,476 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	I personally prefer MPC over MP3, because of almost transparent quality at much lower bitrate. You should give it a try. __________________ -- Vedran

Sep 8, 2003, 01:32 AM	#2
Necrosis HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 8,838 Rep Power: 131 System Specs	My guess it would have to do with the actual compression algorithm. You should give Ogg Vorbis a try, most users seem to love it including myself.

Sep 8, 2003, 02:03 AM	Thread Starter #4
~~craig588~~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: In clothing Posts: 3,510 Rep Power: 0	yeah, I just found a site that expalined all of the flaws, it cuts off everything above about 14KHz. http://www.geocities.com/cfr707/mp3.htm

Sep 8, 2003, 08:50 PM	#6
Matth Flash Banner Hater Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: UK Posts: 3,426 Rep Power: 93 System Specs	Depends on the codec - some MP3 encoders cut hard at 16kHz - THEY should not produce grotty artifacts though, as if anything at those frequencies is there, it will just be dropped. Others vary it with the settings, or have an option. If your talking about results from already encoded mp3's, they can have some spitching and general unpleasantness - and some encoders are just plain defective. A GOOD encoder, at an adequate bitrate, should be able to beat ABX - if LAME using alt-preset-extreme (or even standard) is not transparent to you, then congratulate yourself on having excellent auditory discrimination - and join in some encoder testing! http://www.hydrogenaudio.org - the place to be if you're into audio!

Sep 11, 2003, 05:28 PM	#9
Matth Flash Banner Hater Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: UK Posts: 3,426 Rep Power: 93 System Specs	A quick word about the LAME PRESETS - the Main (and highly tuned) alt-presets are variable bitrate. --alt-preset EXTREME - averages about 250 kbit/s, quality exceeds constant bitrate 256 --alt-preset STANDARD - averages about 190 kbit/s, and better than CBR 192 --alt-preset (number) - average bitrate mode, generally better than --alt-preset CBR (number) - constant birate - but useful if your usage demands CBR. There is also a custom DLL version, where certain quality settings are mapped to alt-presets There is also a Windows ACM version, but it can be hard to find, and has not been subjected to the same tuning