XP athlon or P4?

Zardon · May 8, 2002, 11:35 PM

do you think the P4s are now becoming as good value as the XPs?

my friend has a new P4 and he has it overclocked by 600 mhz without much problem, what do you guys think? are intel getting better or do you think AMD still have the edge?

Andrew275 · May 9, 2002, 01:21 AM

I still think that for the price/performance ration, you can't beat the Athlon right now. Of course, that all may change somewhere down the road, but I couldn't really justify buying a Pentium 4 over an Athlon XP.

WyreTheWolf · May 9, 2002, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Andrew275
I still think that for the price/performance ration, you can't beat the Athlon right now. Of course, that all may change somewhere down the road, but I couldn't really justify buying a Pentium 4 over an Athlon XP.

I agree with this statement... But, you never know what might be around the corner from the two chip giants. Right now Price/Performance still seems to be in the AMD arena ... especially with the raw muscle that the Athlon processors have. F@H anyone?

Now around the corner is the 64 bit chips, and who knows what that could bring to the plate. But, for now IMHO it all kind of slides over to AMD.

In the low priced rigs... AKA Celeron/Duron ... This has been done, and the Duron wins.
If I remember correctly Intel is going to replace the current Celeron with a P4 based silicon, and disable half of the L1, and L2 cache. Don't hold me to that... but, I think I remember reading this somewhere.

Only time will tell what is ahead... but there is some great competition out there... and only the consumer can win!

high_ping · May 9, 2002, 10:45 AM

You know, I am getting the "build a new box" bug! I have never owned a PIII or P4, but I think with all the overclocking that has been going on lately with them...my next mobo and cpu will be a good P4 overclocking pair.

Hysteria · May 9, 2002, 12:20 PM

I used to be a die hard amder. Now I consider myself a die hard value finder. I have come to the conculsion that saying one platform is better than the other at this point is fruitless. Both have their advantages. Right now I would have to say there is a slight edge to the p4 platform for overclockers. The 1.6a and 1.8a p4s are incredible overclockers (my 1.8a is a 2400) and really cheap. However, if you are not into overclocking than the athlon is by far the best value. I guess it boils down to what you want to do with the system. I have my concerns about the athlon's fsb though. I have to wonder if the hammer is going to be able to get enough bandwidth drom a rather limited 266mhz fsb. Guess we will see down the road.

BTW fantastic forum!!!

Candyman · May 9, 2002, 12:25 PM

I hate to admit it but I think I am on the same P4-boat as high_ping. My next system will be a P4 system. Not only for their solid performance...but also for SOME SILENCE!!!

My system isn't loud, but I know that a P4 system would be quieter.

WyreTheWolf · May 9, 2002, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Candyman
I hate to admit it but I think I am on the same P4-boat as high_ping. My next system will be a P4 system. Not only for their solid performance...but also for SOME SILENCE!!!

My system isn't loud, but I know that a P4 system would be quieter.

Two words for you...

"Water Cooling"

hehehehehe

Nologic · May 9, 2002, 03:44 PM

Well performance wise its the P4 all the way after the release of Intels new batch, before this it was AMD all the way.

Cost of entry is less with AMD, but I think if you got the up front money to sport a new highend P4, you just might be getting better bang for the buck.

Tom's Hardware was able to get the new 2.4 close to 3ghz with normall cooling and no tweaking, not to mention the new P4's scored damn near 30% higher than AMD's best.

That all being said I'm still picking up my new 1.7 t-bird tomorrow.

karanzz · May 9, 2002, 07:52 PM

well he in india they don't really like amd really, we still don't have the athlon xp1800 forget the 1900 so i guss P4 is what it is ...

Necrosis · May 9, 2002, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hysteria
I used to be a die hard amder. Now I consider myself a die hard value finder. I have come to the conculsion that saying one platform is better than the other at this point is fruitless. Both have their advantages. Right now I would have to say there is a slight edge to the p4 platform for overclockers. The 1.6a and 1.8a p4s are incredible overclockers (my 1.8a is a 2400) and really cheap. However, if you are not into overclocking than the athlon is by far the best value. I guess it boils down to what you want to do with the system. I have my concerns about the athlon's fsb though. I have to wonder if the hammer is going to be able to get enough bandwidth drom a rather limited 266mhz fsb. Guess we will see down the road.

BTW fantastic forum!!!

The hammer is supposed to have a 19gig bandwidth.

With the recent price drops I was thinking about getting myself a P4 rig, but since their new 533mhz FSB processor is out. I'd have to buy one with the new chipset, and to acheive it's full performance by the new 1066mhz Rambus. I don't think it's very cost effective at all.

Banshax · May 10, 2002, 07:21 AM

It's simple really,

If you can afford it -> p4 with rambus.
If you can't afford that -> p4 with ddr
if you can't afford that either -> amd

Current northwoods (512kb cache) oc much better than athlon xp's
without any effort you easily run them at 2300/2400Mhz speeds. This with
increased bus speeds just gives swings the advantage to intel.

Besides it's Always A nice Idea you can't fry or crunch your cpu. and don't tell me you
don't care about that.

~~Crash Override~~ · May 10, 2002, 08:58 AM

actually the systems with rambus ram at this time perform slower than those with ddr ram

had a P4 1.3 with a half gig or PC800 RDRAM

now I have a Tbird 1.4 with a half gig of PC-133 SDRAM

Guess which is faster

Necrosis · May 10, 2002, 08:58 AM

I find it pretty funny no one has mentioned the Thoroughbred's that are coming out later this month or the first part of June. What about them? Before we tattoo "Intel Inside" on our foreheads we should give AMD a chance. Besides say if you buy a P4 and get yourself some Rambus, and overclock to 2.4 - 2.8 gig. What then in a few months? Intel seems to change sockets as fast as Nvidia releases video cards. The new Rambus memory for the 533mhz FSB processors is hard to find right now. If you really have the money, SAVE IT! Yet, I keep thinking about what is coming out this fall. Serial ATA, 64 bit Sledghammer, Clawhammer, NV30 & NV35 . How much will a system you buy now be worth then? Not much. I would much rather keep and/or, upgrade steadily what I have now and save money. When I'm running my dual Opertron system, I'll think of all those people that went out and blew their money now. Right now I would just get what you would need to get by.

If your dying to have a P4 then fine..go with DDR. Seriously I was very interested at finding out if the new processors worked with all boards. I want to be sure I can upgrade in a few months to something better. I'd hate to spend that money and be stuck at 2.4 gHZ then have to overclock to acheive anymore speed out of the processor. Truly I think for those that bought processors before the 533mHZ FSB. Intel should keep making/upgrading chips for those boards. It's just their attempt at trying to cope with AMD's Thoroughbreds.

P.S. I've owned 5 socket A processors and never once have I crushed or cracked the core on any of them. The previous four all have good homes and are keeping their current owners quite happy.

~~Crash Override~~ · May 10, 2002, 09:03 AM

I had one Tbird burn up

and that was due to the corners that Gateway cuts when making PCs

Did you know that right now I have a friend that just received his new 2.4A system from Gateway and it has a Ti4600, DVD Burner, and every other toy including a full gig of RDRAM

Wanna guess what power supply they tossed on it?

A generic brand 250W with a delta fan.

Sound like enough power? I think not....thats why my Tbird died.....the HSF just didnt get enough juice and shutdown finally and fry sizzle

but when you build your own system you can keep those issues down

personally I think that Intel has this line out for now....T Bred comes out with another speed increase to keep up and then Hammer comes out and kicks butt then Intel comes back with something and then AMD does and so on and so forth

Necrosis · May 10, 2002, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Crash Override
I had one Tbird burn up

and that was due to the corners that Gateway cuts when making PCs

Did you know that right now I have a friend that just received his new 2.4A system from Gateway and it has a Ti4600, DVD Burner, and every other toy including a full gig of RDRAM

Wanna guess what power supply they tossed on it?

A generic brand 250W with a delta fan.

Sound like enough power? I think not....thats why my Tbird died.....the HSF just didnt get enough juice and shutdown finally and fry sizzle

but when you build your own system you can keep those issues down

personally I think that Intel has this line out for now....T Bred comes out with another speed increase to keep up and then Hammer comes out and kicks butt then Intel comes back with something and then AMD does and so on and so forth

Man...

I have a friend who bought a Dell for college back in September 2000. I've done a number of upgrades on her system, and guess what it only had a 200 Watt PWS in it. I had to order the special "Dell" PWS from PC Power & Cooling. I also must add the heatsink without any active cooling was a nice touch. Of course that has been upgraded too. No more Win ME, Win XP Pro, and guess what it runs even better then when it was bran-new.

Dude..Your Gettin Screwed....

I hate that guy!

~~Crash Override~~ · May 10, 2002, 10:08 AM

How dare you say you hate the almighty Steven?

That dude rocks

Duuuude....You're gettin a Dell!

I love those commercials.......His g/f is pretty hot too *tongue on the floor*

Talenzor · May 16, 2002, 11:20 AM

Zardon:

I think P4s have become every bit as much as a value as XPs. I bought a 1.6 Northwood like 4 months about for $150.00, it is sitting on 2.0 rock solid with plenty of room to go. The highest overclock I ever got out of an athlon was 300MHz

~~Crash Override~~ · May 16, 2002, 12:40 PM

For right now they are getting better value due to overclockability perhaps

And I wont deny that Intel runs cooler

but if we all go back to intel then we wont have more AMD products coming out now will we?

Id rather spend 250 bucks to be in second place rather than 600 to be in first

UberLord · May 16, 2002, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Crash Override

Id rather spend 250 bucks to be in second place rather than 600 to be in first

Try explaining that to nVidiots

Ryoko · May 16, 2002, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by UberLord
Try explaining that to nVidiots

actually, compare $350 in first to $275 in second. the difference in speed is worth the $75 in that market.

Zardon · May 16, 2002, 10:26 PM

yes talenzor and others I agree, I love AMD, but ive some share money coming back soon, I am thinking of getting a nice P4 chip with motherboard and messing with overclocking ..... ive heard so many good reports about overclocking with them. Mp3 ripping is good as well.

I have to say though I really love this XP 2100+ ive got at 1,900mhz... its sweet. but im a firm believer in competition and getting a bargain, I think the P4s are alot better value now with the northwood core.

Necrosis · May 17, 2002, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by UberLord
Try explaining that to nVidiots

ROFLMAO!!!

Necrosis · May 17, 2002, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Crash Override
For right now they are getting better value due to overclockability perhaps

And I wont deny that Intel runs cooler

but if we all go back to intel then we wont have more AMD products coming out now will we?

Id rather spend 250 bucks to be in second place rather than 600 to be in first

I totally agree. If it wasn't for the competition, how much would the P4's cost right now? What it reminds me of is those blue liquid wave things people like to put on their desks. You know that ones that go back and fourth, tilts and it rolls to the other side? Who knows how much Intel processor's would be, and what speeds would be out right now. I commend those people that have both processor's. I'm one of the old K6 crowd so I've been supporting AMD for along time. I remember the days of the Intellers harping on the poor floating point of those processors. Today it's the samething happening all over again. I will admit I almost recently purchased a P4 and motherboard, and actually I'm still thinking about doing it. Yet I'm still recommending Athlon XP's to my friends, not everyone OC's. I guess for myself is it sort of personal. In 1999 I was having a running email conversation with an engineer from AMD, you would never have that with Intel. For as small as AMD is, and for what they have done they should be commended. I just can't wait till Q4 when Intel gets their ____ shoved into the dirt once again.

Furious · May 17, 2002, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zardon
yes talenzor and others I agree, I love AMD, but ive some share money coming back soon, I am thinking of getting a nice P4 chip with motherboard and messing with overclocking ..... ive heard so many good reports about overclocking with them. Mp3 ripping is good as well.

I have to say though I really love this XP 2100+ ive got at 1,900mhz... its sweet. but im a firm believer in competition and getting a bargain, I think the P4s are alot better value now with the northwood core.

In your case I doubt you'd see much improvement with a 2.4 ghz P4. Maybe a bit in Q3 (that's the p4's strong suit) but I doubt there'd be much of a difference in overall system performance and you may actually lose performance in some areas. Remember at the speed you're running your chip you basically have an XP 2300+.

Now, on the other hand, if I were building a new system today I'd probably go with a retail (I've heard they oc more reliably than the OEM versions) 1.8A.

I just wish they'd hurry up with the Tbreds.

My 2 cents.

Necrosis · May 17, 2002, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Furious
In your case I doubt you'd see much improvement with a 2.4 ghz P4. Maybe a bit in Q3 (that's the p4's strong suit) but I doubt there'd be much of a difference in overall system performance and you may actually lose performance in some areas. Remember at the speed you're running your chip you basically have an XP 2300+.

Now, on the other hand, if I were building a new system today I'd probably go with a retail (I've heard they oc more reliably than the OEM versions) 1.8A.

I just wish they'd hurry up with the Tbreds.

My 2 cents.

I've even seen one at some online stores..the retails are almost cheaper than the OEM's. Hmm...3 Warranty compared to 15-30 Day..and a heatsink/fan...really hard choice there.

JavaFox · May 19, 2002, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Furious
I just wish they'd hurry up with the Tbreds.

June 10th. It is coming, sir!

----

Originally I wrote "It is coming, faithless swine!" but then I remembered that this wasn't the Flamezone.

May 8, 2002, 11:35 PM	#1
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	XP athlon or P4? do you think the P4s are now becoming as good value as the XPs? my friend has a new P4 and he has it overclocked by 600 mhz without much problem, what do you guys think? are intel getting better or do you think AMD still have the edge?

May 9, 2002, 12:20 PM	#5
Hysteria DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0	I used to be a die hard amder. Now I consider myself a die hard value finder. I have come to the conculsion that saying one platform is better than the other at this point is fruitless. Both have their advantages. Right now I would have to say there is a slight edge to the p4 platform for overclockers. The 1.6a and 1.8a p4s are incredible overclockers (my 1.8a is a 2400) and really cheap. However, if you are not into overclocking than the athlon is by far the best value. I guess it boils down to what you want to do with the system. I have my concerns about the athlon's fsb though. I have to wonder if the hammer is going to be able to get enough bandwidth drom a rather limited 266mhz fsb. Guess we will see down the road. BTW fantastic forum!!! __________________ "The generality of men are naturally apt to be swayed by fear rather than reverence, and to refrain from evil rather because of the punishment that it brings than because of its own foulness." -Aritstotle

May 9, 2002, 12:25 PM	#6
Candyman [DH] Lover! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 284 Rep Power: 0	I hate to admit it but I think I am on the same P4-boat as high_ping. My next system will be a P4 system. Not only for their solid performance...but also for SOME SILENCE!!! My system isn't loud, but I know that a P4 system would be quieter. __________________ AMD Athlon XP 1700+ @ 2.53GHz Abit NF7-S v.2 Thermalright SP-97 w/ TT Smart Fan 2 2 x 512MB GeIL PC3500 Platinum DDR 2 x 120GB WD HDD - RAID-0 2 x 80GB Barracuda V HDD - RAID-0 ATI Radeon AIW 9800PRO SB Audigy 2 HP L2335 23" LCD (DVI-D) WinXP Pro SP2

May 9, 2002, 07:52 PM	#9
karanzz DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: May 2002 Location: Delhi, India Posts: 2 Rep Power: 0	well he in india they don't really like amd really, we still don't have the athlon xp1800 forget the 1900 so i guss P4 is what it is ... __________________ "If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year, killing everyone inside. "-------------------- "UNIX is an operating system, OS/2 is half an operating system, Windows is a shell, and DOS is a boot partition virus. "

May 9, 2002, 01:21 AM	#2
Andrew275 Custom User Title Join Date: May 2002 Location: Washington Posts: 1,125 Rep Power: 0 System Specs	I still think that for the price/performance ration, you can't beat the Athlon right now. Of course, that all may change somewhere down the road, but I couldn't really justify buying a Pentium 4 over an Athlon XP.

May 9, 2002, 10:45 AM	#4
high_ping King of the Wicker People Join Date: May 2002 Location: Baton Rouge Posts: 98 Rep Power: 0	You know, I am getting the "build a new box" bug! I have never owned a PIII or P4, but I think with all the overclocking that has been going on lately with them...my next mobo and cpu will be a good P4 overclocking pair.

May 9, 2002, 03:44 PM	#8
Nologic DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: May 2002 Location: Seattle, WA USA Posts: 4 Rep Power: 0	Well performance wise its the P4 all the way after the release of Intels new batch, before this it was AMD all the way. Cost of entry is less with AMD, but I think if you got the up front money to sport a new highend P4, you just might be getting better bang for the buck. Tom's Hardware was able to get the new 2.4 close to 3ghz with normall cooling and no tweaking, not to mention the new P4's scored damn near 30% higher than AMD's best. That all being said I'm still picking up my new 1.7 t-bird tomorrow.

May 10, 2002, 07:21 AM	#11
Banshax DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1 Rep Power: 0	It's simple really, If you can afford it -> p4 with rambus. If you can't afford that -> p4 with ddr if you can't afford that either -> amd Current northwoods (512kb cache) oc much better than athlon xp's without any effort you easily run them at 2300/2400Mhz speeds. This with increased bus speeds just gives swings the advantage to intel. Besides it's Always A nice Idea you can't fry or crunch your cpu. and don't tell me you don't care about that.

May 10, 2002, 08:58 AM	#12
~~Crash Override~~ Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Olympia, WA Posts: 2,448 Rep Power: 0	actually the systems with rambus ram at this time perform slower than those with ddr ram had a P4 1.3 with a half gig or PC800 RDRAM now I have a Tbird 1.4 with a half gig of PC-133 SDRAM Guess which is faster

May 10, 2002, 08:58 AM	#13
Necrosis HardwareHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 8,838 Rep Power: 131 System Specs	I find it pretty funny no one has mentioned the Thoroughbred's that are coming out later this month or the first part of June. What about them? Before we tattoo "Intel Inside" on our foreheads we should give AMD a chance. Besides say if you buy a P4 and get yourself some Rambus, and overclock to 2.4 - 2.8 gig. What then in a few months? Intel seems to change sockets as fast as Nvidia releases video cards. The new Rambus memory for the 533mhz FSB processors is hard to find right now. If you really have the money, SAVE IT! Yet, I keep thinking about what is coming out this fall. Serial ATA, 64 bit Sledghammer, Clawhammer, NV30 & NV35 . How much will a system you buy now be worth then? Not much. I would much rather keep and/or, upgrade steadily what I have now and save money. When I'm running my dual Opertron system, I'll think of all those people that went out and blew their money now. Right now I would just get what you would need to get by. If your dying to have a P4 then fine..go with DDR. Seriously I was very interested at finding out if the new processors worked with all boards. I want to be sure I can upgrade in a few months to something better. I'd hate to spend that money and be stuck at 2.4 gHZ then have to overclock to acheive anymore speed out of the processor. Truly I think for those that bought processors before the 533mHZ FSB. Intel should keep making/upgrading chips for those boards. It's just their attempt at trying to cope with AMD's Thoroughbreds. P.S. I've owned 5 socket A processors and never once have I crushed or cracked the core on any of them. The previous four all have good homes and are keeping their current owners quite happy.

May 10, 2002, 09:03 AM	#14
~~Crash Override~~ Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Olympia, WA Posts: 2,448 Rep Power: 0	I had one Tbird burn up and that was due to the corners that Gateway cuts when making PCs Did you know that right now I have a friend that just received his new 2.4A system from Gateway and it has a Ti4600, DVD Burner, and every other toy including a full gig of RDRAM Wanna guess what power supply they tossed on it? A generic brand 250W with a delta fan. Sound like enough power? I think not....thats why my Tbird died.....the HSF just didnt get enough juice and shutdown finally and fry sizzle but when you build your own system you can keep those issues down personally I think that Intel has this line out for now....T Bred comes out with another speed increase to keep up and then Hammer comes out and kicks butt then Intel comes back with something and then AMD does and so on and so forth

May 10, 2002, 10:08 AM	#16
~~Crash Override~~ Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Olympia, WA Posts: 2,448 Rep Power: 0	How dare you say you hate the almighty Steven? That dude rocks Duuuude....You're gettin a Dell! I love those commercials.......His g/f is pretty hot too tongue on the floor

May 16, 2002, 11:20 AM	#17
Talenzor DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3 Rep Power: 0	Zardon: I think P4s have become every bit as much as a value as XPs. I bought a 1.6 Northwood like 4 months about for $150.00, it is sitting on 2.0 rock solid with plenty of room to go. The highest overclock I ever got out of an athlon was 300MHz

May 16, 2002, 12:40 PM	#18
~~Crash Override~~ Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Olympia, WA Posts: 2,448 Rep Power: 0	For right now they are getting better value due to overclockability perhaps And I wont deny that Intel runs cooler but if we all go back to intel then we wont have more AMD products coming out now will we? Id rather spend 250 bucks to be in second place rather than 600 to be in first

May 16, 2002, 10:26 PM	Thread Starter #21
Zardon DriverHeaven Founder Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 32,480 Rep Power: 179	yes talenzor and others I agree, I love AMD, but ive some share money coming back soon, I am thinking of getting a nice P4 chip with motherboard and messing with overclocking ..... ive heard so many good reports about overclocking with them. Mp3 ripping is good as well. I have to say though I really love this XP 2100+ ive got at 1,900mhz... its sweet. but im a firm believer in competition and getting a bargain, I think the P4s are alot better value now with the northwood core.