reno

Alrighty,

My computer (3.0C P4, Asus P4P800 Deluxe, 2x256MB PC3200 Kingston HyperX, Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB, 2x80GB 8MB cache WD and Maxtor Harddrives, etc.), seems to not be as fluid as my friend's similarly configured (only diff is 1GB of Corsair XMS running at same timings as my ram, and a GeforceFX 5900Ultra 256MB) in certain games like FarCry, Doom3 Alpha, and Unreal Tournament 2004.

In all three of these, it seems the longer I play the same level the better and smoother the performance...but after playing for an hour or two my computer is ass slow when I exit out, lots of paging has occurred and my OS is just plain sluggish.

Do you guys think I'd get a significant increase in game "smootheness" by bumping my RAM upto a full 1.5GB (a 2x512 pack of Kingston HyperX to be added), or is it my 128MB videocard that is causing me problems (doubtful, but you never know).

If more memory would be better, should I just do another 2x256 pack, or if I have the money to spend go the full blown 2x512 and have 1.5GB total? Currently my timings are 2-3-2-6-1 @ 200x2 MHz, PAT is enabled...I mean it's running fast, except in the massive memory hog games. Hell, Doom3 runs with 380 FREAKING megabytes of memory, without even loading a level...

Please, someone confirm my wanton lust for 1.5gigs of memory mayhem.

malkor

Confirmed!

If you're using Windows XP, that alone is reason enough to up the ram. XP will only just start to function nicely at a minimum of 512MB. At 1GB is when it starts to really shine. And games like FarCry are screaming for more ram.

I feel the time has come where the average gaming rig pretty well requires a Gig of ram minimum. With future games and Longhorn a couple of gigs will be the norm soon enough.

The_Neon_Cowboy

UT2004 you really need 1.5 gb

I have 1 GB and still have the problems you do with the pageing and slugishness

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kemet64

yea, more ram is always good. It used to be that a gig was worthless...that you would never use it for gaming. However that is long gone. Upgrading the ram will show a large increase in performanec.

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Zardon

as long as you dont use 4 boards, as latencies will be terrible and overclocking will also suffer. hopefully 2 x 1 gig of ram will become affordable in the future.

The_Neon_Cowboy

Ram prices on any decent ram are still pretty high. Ram prices are up 33-50% right now!

I will warn you the addressing of more ram will make the system slightly slower with 1.5 GB then with 1GB but your applications and games will run better


I have 2 sticks of CAS2 Geil 512mb 6-3-3 1T , I just I wish I could afford the special mush kin. Cas 2 2-2-2 1T

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Zardon

thats because he will be using 3 boards. which was my point above, the more boards, the more modules, the more work the system has to do to read through it all meaning timings like 5-2-2-2 are almost impossible with 3 or 4 boards.

malkor

I certainly hope that on an 865PE chipset he won't run 3 sticks. The dual channel capabilities are not hybrid like the nForce2.

If he were to run four, he would be better off that all four were the same capacity. Mixing sizes on separate channels will slow the system more than having all sticks uniform.

I recall reading on Anandtech , where they figured RAM performance increased with 4 double-sided sticks on the 865/875 platform.

Right now the latencies of 1Gb sticks are quite high anyway.


Maybe sell the two sticks of 256 and get two 512Mb sticks of high quality, low latency ram.

reno

Well, here's the thing...

I hate to admit this, but I'm done with overclocking. Yeah, ooh, I can OC to about 3.5-3.6 and run 3dmark...but I'm in it really for the games. Shit, I can score a modest 6k on 3d2k3 and 19k on 2k1, but Farcry and UT2k4 stutter ever so slightly enough to piss me off.

EDIT: Should I go with 2 of these Corsair XMS PC3200 2-3-2-6 or should I go with one package of these Kingston HyperX PC3200 2-3-2-6 ?

I'll probably do some playtesting with the 1.5 gigs (2x256MB and 2x512MB in the other channel) and heck, I may even default to CAS 2.5 instead of CAS 2...I'm not so much concerned with the latencies, through my last decade with computers latencies have never done anything more than given a 1% boost to performance, and if I can get 1.5 Gigs running smoothly (4 sticks of Kingston HyperX has the OK from Asus tech support at least) and it increases the performance in games...who cares right?

I suppose I could always just throw the 2x256 sticks in the closet or something, but we'll just have to see after some testing, right?

As soon as I get back home, I'll throw the computer into pure default mode, bench, play some games and get framerate readings, all that good stuff...then, I'll (wait until payday next tuesday, buy the ram from newegg, hope it gets here by friday...) throw the 2 512 sticks in along side the old, bench, play some games, etc...THEN, I'll remove the 2 256 sticks and do it all over again.

Then I'll maybe remember to post it .

280 bucks worth of RAM, HERE I COME!

EDIT: Oops, my post count says "1337" so I can never, ever, post again!

BWX

I'm going through the same thing, I have very fast Low latency (BH-6) ram, but only 2 x 256mb - it isn't enough for Farcry- I am going to get one more stick of ram, probably 256 (BH-5) for now and see how it works until I get a 512mb stick, and see how that goes.. It will be interesting to see how much I have to loosen the timings with 3, 256mb- even though it's all BH6 and BH5 high quality ram - Hopefully not too much. It's hard to find BH5 ram, and most other stuff is too slow.

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OpusP.Gladiator

I agree Zardon... Been searching for pc4000 1g sticks... but at well over 500 bucks ...WTF

I agree that at least a gig is becoming the norm... for gamers/geeks anything more means ya best be doing something worthwhile with a tool like that...hahaha

anyways, sold 2x256 stcks since they interfered with pat enabling... when overclocked! which is why I want larger sticks! thanks 4 your attention...lol

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malkor

I tell you right now guys, I'm running 3 512MB (BH-5) sticks on an nForce2 board at 2-2-2-10, will run at 2-2-2-5 no worries, I get better performance and bandwidth at 10.


I run 2 sets of Corsair Twinx -1024 3200LLPT on a P4P800 SE board, 2-2-2-5. Noticed little change in performance, 20 Mhz or so lower bandwidth, but about 100 more points in 3D03 and 250 in 3D01.

This is another case of theory not being realized in practice. DO NOT run 3 sticks on an 875/865 chipset. DO NOT run 2x512 and 2x256 on an 865/875 chipset. I noticed a dramatic drop in performance when using these configs.

Judas

i can currently pick up 2 sticks of 333mhz cas 2.5 tight timings (1gb each)... for aproximatedly $600

But... i can't tell you how

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Necrosis

I'd say save the money and only get an additional 512 if you're already running decent timings. However, you're not OC'ing either so you should be okay. It would be great if you could borrow some ram off a friend to try it out. I just would advise you not to mix, and match ram either. The money you save you could pickup one of those 36 gig raptors!

reno

Well, is the consensus then that 4x256MB KHX3200A modules resulting in 1GB of memory is better than 2x256 and 2x512 KHX3200A modules resulting in 1.5 gigs?

Even if they are the same modules (Kingston HyperX 3200A), just with the new two being different sizes? I just want to make sure I'm clear on this, they are the same brand, speed rating, even chip revision (winbond CH-6)...its just that 2 are intended to be run in channel A at 256MB a piece, and the new 2 will run in Channel B at 512MB a piece.

Even if the larger sized modules are all the same speed, brand, model and Cas rating, and they're properly run in dual channel configuration, the performance will be THAT horrible? Or is it really the difference between 6000 in 3dmark2k3 and 5800? Will games run noticeably slower, or will it be a frame or two difference?

You're right, I don't want to spend 280 bucks and have a useless pair of 256 sticks lying around...I suppose I could sell em and run 2x512...but I'm still out the extra 160-180 bucks.

I guess what would REALLY help, are like some benchmarks or scores or framerates (besides the antique anandtech article on a DFI)...anything showing the percentage of decrease from mixing sizes (not speeds, type, or latencies). Help!

reno

Can I get an opinion on this ram, it seems to be decent...click here

Same winbond ch-6 chips as my current stuff, same speed, same latencies, 40 bucks cheaper than the kingston with a nicer heatspreader...hehe

BWX

I think there was a review of that stuff posted here in the news- I can't remember who did the review, but they said they had good results.. I'd search for the review, I know it's out there.

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CDsDontBurn

my personal opinion is to get Corsair XMS TwinX 1Gb (2x512) memory. You don't need to get Corsair XMS memory, just what you prefer. Don't mix and match memory just like everybody else is telling you. The only thing mixing and matching will give you are headaches and plenty of them. Later on get another 1Gb of ram and a newer video card and your set until your next major upgrade (which will be to the probably BTX form factor).

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BWX

Yeah what he said.

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reno

I hate to sound like a blockhead, but when you mean mixing and matching do you mean different brands/speeds/latencies/chips/etc...or do you mean mixing different module sizes (256 v 512).

Neocrosis, Zardon, Malkor:

If all the memory is Kingston HyperX: same speed, same revision, same latencies, same ICs...but two 256s + two 512s (different module sizes, all the same besides that....both size modules are dual sided)...will this supposed "trouble" be drastically noticable in games and normal operation (photoshop, surfing)...or will it only be slightly worse benchmark scores?

The only "mixing and matching" will be module SIZE, they all use the same ICs, same dual sided boards, same 6 layer PCB, same CH-6s, same speed rating, same SPD, same latencies (both the 2x256s and 2x512s are Kingston HyperX 3200A 2-3-2-6 modules).

Please...a non-vague answer would be great . Saying "my performance decreased" or "you'll have trouble" is pretty vague . Again, no overclocking will be going on, I'm not going to be benching the shit out of this, I just want what will be the most futureproof and well performing memory setup for games like Far Cry, Doom 3 and any other HUGE memory hogs (in terms of amount of memory consumed, NOT speeds). Will the difference between using 2x256 KHX3200As + 2x512 KHX3200As in dual channel be SO bad compared to 2x512 KHX3200As (or 4x256 KHX3200As) as to be an utterly worthless purchase? Or will the performance difference be in the 1-2% range. And this is all on a Asus P4P800 Deluxe i865PE w/ PAT (or "Hyperpath"), with full support for both channels filled with Kingston HyperX OR Kingston Value Ram, so four slots (both channels) filled is supported according to ASUS.

Two days until the purchase, need opinions and answers fast! I want my damn Far Cry/ Doom 3 to run flawlessly like they should!

Zardon

well there you go then, the more memory the better. My point, although perhaps a little vague to some extent is basically saying that the more memory sticks and the more memory modules you have in your system the more work the system and motherboard is going to have to do to access it all so overclocking and performance latency (tight) timings are going to be harder to achieve even with increased voltage.

This really is a matter to debate depending on what you are going to do with your rig. if you want tight memory timings with good gaming and overclocking, then get 2 x 512 matched modules, if you are on an AMD ram like the corsair Pro 3200 5-2-2-2 is ideal as it will OC high or if you are on intel and want MASSIVE fsbs then get OCZ 4400 matched modules. I dont recommend 2.256 boards anymore, its a waste of time, we have already seen farcry struggling with load times, accessing during the game and while a system like 2x256 will bench even higher than a system with 2 x 512 its no longer a worthwhile option. you NEED 1 gig for forthcoming games, farcry has proven this.

So let me recap and clarify.

for benchmarking 2x256 BH5 (if you can find it), voltage over 3, at the highest FSB 5-2-2-2
for photoshop, rendering. 3d work 4x512 at loose timings = 2 gig total, or 2x256 + 2x512 1.5gig - mixing sizes on certain boards is NOT going to work well either, remember this, its a trial and error process. You will be needing much relaxed timings on the ram.
for overall system performance, gaming, PS work etc. 2x512 meg boards - you can still have tight timings, overclock and game with anything right now, 1 gig is adequate.

also note, that if you have 2x256 boards at say 5-2-2-2 and 2 x 512 meg boards at 6-3-3-2.5, all boards will have to run at the lower speed, then you have to take into account that the system may not even cope with the 6-3-3-2.5,speeds due to the sheer amount of modules in the system, you may even need speeds of 8-4-4-3 to get stable performance. also bear in mind to initially go into your bios with the slowest ram in on its own, set the ram timings manually to the most relaxed timings, NOT SPD, as when you put in the extra faster ram as well, SPD might read from these (faster) modules, therefore causing a NO post when you put all four in (the slower ram cant cope with the faster ram SPD timings).


if you want farcry to run flawlessy, and still get the max performance, run 2x512 matched boards. sell any 256 boards you have.

reno

Alrighty, thanks Zardon.

I will take the risk and buy the 2x512 Kingston HyperX 3200A Twinpack over at newegg on wednesday (stupid paydays)...then, I will set my boards timings to 2.5-4-4-8 (even though all my ram will be capable of 2-3-2-6...but just being safe you know?)...then I will try and reduce the timings as low as they'll go...then bench....then compare to the benches I recently took (FRAPS in KOTOR, Hitman3, Painkiller and 3dmarks in 2001se and 2003)....then I will decide whether or not to sell my original 2x256 Twinpack of HyperX 3200A to my friend (who uses the same modules, and is hunting for a gig or more as well for cheap).

I know you guys probably won't care, but I'll even do some cool excel charts and crap and post the results to a technology thread when I'm done...doesn't that sound cool?

Zardon

actually personally I would be interested to see how it goes. ive about 10 modules at home from most of the major companies, and ive ran quite extensive testing on them in various setups. 2 up, 3 up, 4 up etc.

be interesting to hear how you get on. at least if it all fails you will have 2x512 which will definately give all you need.

malkor

I pretty much agree with what Zardon said. I have the same chipset as you, my board is the Asus P4P800 SE, Intel 865PE.

I have tried this board using 2x 512Mb, 2x512Mb+2x256Mb, 3x512Mb, and 4x512Mb. All sticks were Corsair XMS LL modules in matched pairs (TwinX). All rev 1.1, BH-5 modules. ( I bought a *%#$load of this stuff early on, 5 Gigs in total)

Like Zardon said, the best for benching is 2x512. 4x512 gives me the best all around performance, especially gaming (it's what I run 24/7). 2x512+2x256 gave me very reduced performance, bandwidth dropped , benchmarks dropped across the board, just gave a feeling of sluggishness compared to the prior two configs ( If I had to guess I would say 10 to 15% decrease). 3x512 gave the worst performance, because the third stick ran in single channel mode and on a P4 system this makes quite a difference.


On all configs, none of the timings needed to be relaxed in any way. I'm using top notch ram though, that may be the difference. Don't have any nice looking , cool Excel sheets though.

I too would be interested to hear how you make out. Good luck.

CDsDontBurn

yes, thats what we mean by mixing and matching different brands/speeds/latencies/chips including different module sizes.

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reno

Okay, get this...

On a whim I set the voltage for my ram to 2.65v...I actually LOOSEN the timings to a whopping 3-4-4-8 and then I bench away...my computer was FASTER with crappy timings! WTF? I scored at least a dozen FPS better in 3dmark2k3 game 1 and 2-4 fps better across the board for the rest. I got a couple hundred more points on 3dmark2001se

And this is all with 200MB/s (according to sandra) less memory bandwidth?

Oh, and I decided if I'm getting rid of my other mem sticks...why not buy a gig of OCZ PC3500 2.5-3-3-7 and have some overclocking headroom...you know, in case I ever do that... . It'll be intersesting to see how this all pans out.