bending_unit_82

Thanks; I took the PC to the store again yesterday and explained the situation. I went for a stronger PSU (350W, which is apparently standard these days), which should at least guarantee that if the problem persists, it can't be the power supply. The motherboard is indeed shot; hopefully I can get a warantee, it was still new after all. I went for another type anyway, an nForce2 instead of a VIA board, which I heard was more stable. They said they'd test the pc to see if everything worked as it should, but I've bad experiences with stores and PCs in general. Here's hoping...

swimtech

Sounds good so far!

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Lchevy79

cool hope it all works out

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bending_unit_82

Right, so I'm back again, on my new PC, now with a new power supply AND mainboard. I just spent the afternoon calling Microsoft to activate my winXP again via the phone, installing drivers again, etc... So is the lockup problem finally gone now?

Fat chance. It's still there. I've gone through many emotions now with this new PC - shock over the trouble I had with initially, frustration when I had to take it back to the store to get them to set the BIOS right, anger when the lockup issue persisted, chagrin over the fact that nothing I tried worked, and finally violent depression when that BIOS update failed. Now I'm homicidal. I tried Far Cry first just now because that was the game where the lockup problem was worst (it locked after only a minute or two) and both times I've started the game now it locked after mere seconds. I feel like launching the computer out the window, preferably from the first floor. This is insane. I just spent good money for another PSU and motherboard, and it was useless. I don't know what the problem could be anymore. I'm just about willing to start considering possible alternative causes to the issue now, such as demonic possession of the CPU and bad mainboard karma. Maybe I'll give that Indian shaman a try after all...right after I sign up for group therapy and start that blues band.

swimtech

Man! What gives?

I would feel exactly the same in your situation, but would be hard pressed to express it as elegantly or as humorously as you have - kudos to you...

What are your present system specs (mainboard make and model, processor, ram, drives, Windows version and whether updates have been applied). Let's go again slowly from scratch...

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bending_unit_82

I think I might just take it back to the store...again... I'm just tired. Of the whole thing. Only a few minutes ago I installed the drivers for the mainboard, which is an nForce2 now, and it did change the SMARTGART settings. It turned Fastwrites on and set the AGP speed to 8x. Tried Far Cry, still the same problem. Tore large chunk out of my desk with my teeth. Didn't help either.

Lchevy79

take that thing back to the store stay there as they test it and test it there when you pick it up . either there is some problems with your machine or the place you are taking it to are no good

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swimtech

Yes, take it back and have them test it running your game - show them yourself what it is doing...

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PoopyTheJ

aye, that or grab yourself a copy of windows XP, reinstall the whole ever loving thing from scratch and see if the problem persists. BTW make sure that the BIOS on this mobo is up to date, although after the bad experience flashing I can understand if you're leary of doing that.

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bending_unit_82

That's exactly what I did; the HD was formatted and I installed winXP from scratch. The only things on the PC right now are windows, the sound, video and MB drivers, and then the games Far Cry and Deus Ex to test the system. That's all. No exotic hardware or anything either,the vid card is just a Radeon 9600XT, the sound card's a SB Live 5.1,... Not much else in the PC either.

I have been reading in some places though (mainly the Far Cry tech forum) that some people with similar problems found out they had a bad RAM stick. Maybe that's it (though the ram is also brand new). I've to doubt the video card's damaged, as it plays everything without any trouble (not counting the lockup issue of course). All the textures and such look great, shadows look good, no flickering this or that, no abnormalities,... Works like a charm aside from the locking up. Which I find very weird. Can't be the PSU anymore, or an issue with the MB as both have been replaced. And as I mentioned before, the more demanding the game is when itcomes to hardware, the faster the lockup occurs. Maybe it IS a memory issue of some sort? Maybe damaged memory on the card itself? Hmm...

swimtech

Memtest86 CD image link:

http://www.memtest86.com/

You'll see the link as you scroll down the page. The .zip file you download will expand into an .iso file that you can burn to a CD. The CD is bootable (eliminating Windows, most drivers, etc...) and tests the system memory thoroughly. I don't know of a program to test the video card memory though...

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Lchevy79

well is it locking in windows as you surf the net and such?? and don't put the vid card out of the question i bout a brand new 9800 pro from best buy , i didn't lockup but i had some really bad artifacts after some playing in ut2k4. i took it back and got a replacement all good now

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bending_unit_82

Nope, no locks in windows. The locks only occur when the video card is taxed, meaning when it actually has to do its job. Play a game from two years ago and maybe it'll lock after three hours, maybe it won't even happen at all. DX2 from last year locks after a number of minutes, Far Cry from only a few months ago locks almost right away.

The last (driver-related) option I'm willing to consider is that the problem is caused by the order in which the drivers are installed; first I installed video and sound card drivers, and only then the mainboard drivers. I don't know if something as simple as that could really cause this problem. I'm guessing that's a longshot. Probably the best thing to do is to take itback to the store 'as-is'. With Windows, the drivers and two or three games installed and the message that this problem NEEDS to be fixed, at all costs. Preferably at no costs -- I'm still steaming overthe fact that I just bought another mainboard and power supply for nothing. The nForce2 mainboard actually turns out to be smaller than the previous one too, making it so I only have just enough space for all the cards (four). Since I hear most modern nvidia cards need two slots because of the large cooler, I guess I'm stuck with ATI now anyway.

swimtech

It's not likely that the install order for your mainboard drivers is causing a problem. Folks here and myself routinely update their mainboard drivers with gobs of software installed (installing the Omegadrive or ATI video drivers sometimes requires that they be re-installed) and problems are solved.

Know that the shop you take your computer to is going to go through a lot of the same mental and physical troubleshooting steps you've undertaken. They will want to confirm your symptoms before they replace anything.

If I were them, I would see that you have basically eliminated the mainboard (with the associated drivers and bios) as a problem. The fact you have a fairly clean hard drive is a help as well. From a hardware perspective, the remaining items that could cause the lockups are the memory, video card, or a glitchy drive (hard drive or optical). The easiest way to test these items is to remove them from the system (undoing cables and power to them) or swapping out with a known good item. BTW, just recently read that the 9600XT is not a big power hog - so I don't suspect that a new 350W supply is the problem, but they could check it by monitoring the rails during operation with a multimeter to be sure...

When you take the computer to the shop, call them beforehand and schedule a time so that you can be there to actually show them your failure - so they can see it and you know they have seen it. You'll be able to talk with them about it too. You've spent a good deal of money with them - they should want to make it right for you.

Hang in there...

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bending_unit_82

Once again I'd like to thank everyone for the help. The PC's at the store right now, with a small list of notes prepared by me (the things I tried to solve the problem, everything that's on the PC right now, etc). I asked them to make SURE this issue is gone now, once and for all. I installed three games for them to test the system with, namely Mafia(2002), Deus Ex 2(2003), and Far Cry(2004). In the notes I also wrote down when each game locked, on average. They should be able to see the problem clearly with Far Cry, which locks in seconds now.

Unfortunately there's no way to actually be present when they test the system. It's a big store and it's usually full of customers, and the PCs are fixed/repaired/tested in the back. I guess the problem has to be the video card, or the memory. Both are brand new tho. Well, I guess I'll just await their call and see what comes of it.

bending_unit_82

Right, another update, for those who still care or who've looked on with a kind of schadenfreude-type amusement. I got that call from the store today, surprisingly not to tell me they've found the problem, but to tell me the PC was ready. Ready? I was a little taken aback to hear that because if the problem really stemmed from the vid card and they had to order a new 9600XT, then it should have taken them at least several days to get it (when I got my 9600XT from the store it'd taken a few days for them to get it from their supplier). So I asked them about it.

They told me the problem indeed seemed to be caused by the video card, but that they'd put in a new one, tested it, and that everything worked fine now. Just to be sure I asked about what card they'd put in. The answer I received was that it was a 9600*SE*(a budget version of the 9600 which performs very badly). Naturally I explained why it was important that the new card was a 9600*XT*, and I asked whether they could still order an XT from the supplier, and then test the PC with that one. Of course they could, but obviously it would take several days for them to get it, plus testing,... I stated that it was ok by me if I had to wait a little more, and that the most important thing for me was that I could finally be absolutely, positively certain the PC workled flawlessly.

Of course, there's still the concern that the 9600XT cards at their supplier are part of a bad series that were made. Which means the new 9600XT could have the very same problem. Which in turn would mean that I'd have to go look for a different card after all. And since the mainboard I switched to (from VIA to an nForce2) is smaller than the other one and has only just enough room for all the cards, it means I won't be able to switch to an nVidia card as most of their modern cards require two slots due to the large cooler.

It seems my PC troubles aren't over yet.

pr0digal jenius

may i suggest you try getting a different card, like maybe a 9800 pro if indeed you get another bad 9600 XT it may be worth the extra cash just to save your headache/sanity

GutterPunk

get your money back if it dont work, fork out 200 and get a newegg r9800

thats a bummer

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hohum

Did you try running the agp speed at 4x? Someone I know would get lockups at 8x always... 4x was fine. Similarly did you turn off fastwrites/sideband addressing in the bios?

All I can think of.

Lchevy79

what manufacturer was that 9600 xt ??? if so put in a 9800 pro much better card . with all the problems you have had they may prorate it for you on the upgrade

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Geminiwave

btw did you ever check to see if it was a RAM issue? Sorry but that TOTALLY sounds like a problem with the RAM. Did you run Memtest86? You let that sucker run for 6 hours streight to make sure you get an accurate reading.

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bending_unit_82

No, no Memtest I'm afraid; but I should have the chance of trying out my PC again in a few days, with that 9600SE card those guys installed. Apparently there was some misunderstanding on what's going to happen next -- it seems my defective 9600XT has been sent back to the manufacturer, but instead of ordering a new one, the store told me they had to wait for whatever the manufacturer's gonna do next. It appears that normally you should get a new card from them, but that they first have to test it and see if it can't be repaired somehow. This, however, could take until September, so the store advised me to just come pick up my PC for now (with the 9600SE) so I'll at least have my computer back until the manufacturer either gives me a new card or my money back.

Geminiwave

sounds like good advice. Assuming they arent totally scamming you. IT actually is pretty sensible. Just take the 9600SE for now as long as they say they'll get you your XT back or a full refund.

I'm supprized that the store doesnt have any lying around though. They really should just have it in stock or some other comparable card.

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bending_unit_82

Well, I got my PC back yesterday with the 9600SE installed, and I've been playing the hell out of Far Cry, Deus Ex 2 and Enemy Territory ever since. No lockups anymore, so I guess the problem really did lay there. Of course some sort of nastiness may still happen, such as the new 9600XT turning out to be faulty like the first one, but right now I'm just glad I can finally enjoy a few games. I don't suppose there's much left to say now that the problem's been found, other than to thank everyone, one last time (hopefully). After badly configured BIOSes, insane Windows activation sessions over the phone, failed BIOS updates, a destroyed mainboard, a useless PSU upgrade, and yet more, I think I'm due for some gaming on this rig

Geminiwave

yeah man i know what you mean. I went through all of the same stuff...I built my rig over spring break and it wasnt until the start of the summer that I got my rig running. I love videogames :-D

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