bending_unit_82

Hi; I found this forum through a thread on the Far Cry forums, where this BB was recommended. I'm hoping at least someone here will be able to help me with this issue. Please read.

Last week I finally got my new PC, an Athlon 2800 with 512M ram and a Radeon 9600XT. Basically I wanted to keep up with whatever games and such were going to come out soon, so I upgraded from my P3 1GH to this machine. So far soo good. I immediately installed Mafia and Enemy Territory, two of my favorite games from some time last year, and to my joy found they played smoothly in any resolution whatsoever. To my consternation however a problem arose - whenever I tried to play I got a VPU Recover message after a little while. The game would lock up, and I'd be looking at a VPU Recover thingie on my desktop.

After asking around a little about the problem I noticed quite a few people had this issue, and most were advised to just turn VPU Recover off in the control panel as it seems it usually causes more instability than it helps solve. Fearing it might be a heat issue as well (most of the time when people have a problem with their PC these days it seems the first things they think of is that it must be either a heat issue or a case of a weak power supply) I opened my case as well. To my relief both Mafia and Enemy Territory worked great...

...Until at a certain point, after a few days of gaming, I encountered my first lockup. It was the same problem as I'd had with VPU Recover, only this time, because VPU Recover was off, I couldn't return to the desktop and I had to reboot my PC. Apparently my problem's weren't over. More lockups occurred after that -- I'd play Mafia or Enemy Territory for two hours sometimes and experience a lockup, or I'd play them for three or four hours and nothing would happen. In other words, it seemed the lockups just happened randomly.

Fast-forward to today, when I receive Deus Ex 2, a game I'd been waiting to play for a long time since I'm a huge fan of the original. Maybe it's because it's a more modern game that's harder to run, but I experienced lockups constantly. They occur about every twenty minutes or so while playing, which sucks to say the least. It's just the same problem again -- the game suddenly locks and doesn't respond anymore, the sound may continue to play or it too may hang. It was the same with the demo for Far Cry by the way, a game which I've ordered as well. I can only assume at this point that I'd experience the same lockups with that one should I install it.

In short, I'm at the end of my rope here. Obviously something's wrong, but what? WinXP already told me at certain points the instabilities are caused by the video card software, but how is that possible?

Some technical information, for the record: my PC doesn't contain any exotic hardware of any kind, and the motherboard and everything is brand new. I'd be surprised if this were a heat issue, since the air blowing from the Radeon's fan is warm but not really hot. My power supply however is only 300W, but that shouldn't really be a problem, should it, I mean considering the PC's components?
As far as software's concerned; everything else about the PC works like a charm, and the video card drivers are just the latest ones from ATI. There have not been any other video driver versions on this PC yet other than these; I downloaded them when I got the PC and I haven't messed with them since. In other words, everything should be pristine, but it isn't. One thing I have noticed, looking around the internet, is that this doesn't seem to be all that uncommon a problem among Radeon users. So far I haven't found any solutions though. I'm hoping to find them here.

PoopyTheJ

Your new PC, is windows cleanly installed or is it a HDD brought over from the old PC with updated drivers? Did you use the Windows migration tool? All WinXP patches installed? Most recent motherboard drivers? For that matter what mobo are you using? Fastwrites on or off? 300W Power Supply new or old? What are your mobo and processor temps? You can get a free little utility like Aida 32 to check temps or some other utility of your choice. Any overclocking? If so turn it off then see. More info will help to narrow down the problem.

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swimtech

I think the most probable thing (especially on a pre-built unit - what brand?) is some software running in the backround conflicting with your game. Any applications running at startup (look on the lower right of your taskbar for the icons pertaining to the applications that are running when your desktop settles down after a boot)? If so, what are they? Try turning them off or disabling them when playing a game.

Also, your computer had a video driver on it to start with. Could have been a manufacturer's version or a version from ATI. When you downloaded and installed your latest video card driver, a remnant from the initially loaded driver may still be there - causing a problem. You may need to do a clean driver install.

Finally, you may need to update your chipset/AGP drivers. This is a problem for some ATI driver upgraders here.

Try this stuff and give us feedback on the questions and suggestions here, as a start - OK? Working through this may solve your problem - if not - you may have a hardware problem...

Welcome to DH!

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bending_unit_82

Alright, here goes:

The computer's not store-bought, but more or less an upgrade. The reason I say more or less is because only the case and the sound card (a regular SB Live 5.1) came over from the old PC, everything else was upgraded. The store assembled the PC, installed windows XP and tested it. Everything works fine too, except for games. All WinXP patches and Service Pack 1 are installed.

The Motherboard is an Asus A7V8X (Via chipset). I'm not sure whether those drivers are installed. I guess that's something I could try, butI don't know where to download those. All I know is that when I tried to install the drivers from the cdrom that came with the MB, it screwed up the system bigtime, so I went back to the windows restore-point I'd made when I received the PC and just left them off. I don't really know anything about fastwrites etc, but when I go to the control panel and click the SMARTGART tab in the ATI settings it says AGP Fastwrites are off.

The power supply is new.

I don't know the temperatures of the MB and such, but since it's all new hardware and the fans are operating smoothly I'm not sure if that can be a problem. I live in Belgium btw, and we're not really known for our terribly warm weather either over here

As far as overclocking is concerned, I've never bothered with that kind of thing myself and it's not something I can really see myself doing; I know too many people who thought they were experts and who damaged their hardware because they didn't know what they were doing in that respect.

Then, software running in the background. There's only the Windows Update icon there (plus of course volume control and the ATI icon). There's not really that much software on this PC yet.

The video driver the PC started with was only the standard WinXP stuff. In other words, no real driver.

Thanks for the replies so far guys. I really appreciate it.

Falstaff

type control +alt+delete and you should see programs, processes and other things running on your computer, give it a try man...or run the norton stuff and find the corrupted video car driver. good luck

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MIG-31

your drivers can be found here

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PoopyTheJ

uninstall whatever video drivers you have installed, grab driver cleaner from here http://www.hardwareheaven.com/cleaner/ follow instructions, re-install newest omega drivers. And I think Fast Writes should be on for a 9600 shouldn't they?

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Lchevy79

i have the same mobo and you can use asus probe to tell your temps, voltages, fan speeds ect. http://www.asus.it/support/download/...01.zip~zaqwedc and you will need asus update to update your bios http://www.asus.it/support/download/...01.zip~zaqwedc I'm using bios update 14 which did fix an agp 8x problem. http://www.asus.com.cn/support/downl...8X&Type=Latest this link will take you to the bios download for the A7V8X motherboard do not do a bios update unless you are certain it is a a7v8x motherboard. mine was a little unstable till i bought a 450 watt powersupply

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msi K7N2 delta2-AMD 2800xp@2083-1gig of pc2700ram -ati x850xt 256mb -Audigy mp3+ - 1 80gig maxtor 8mb and 1 250gig 16mb maxtor -48x24x48 buslink burner-and a lite on 4x +/- dvd burner xp home samsung lcd (19") 930b monitor

bending_unit_82

Thanks a lot for the advice so far. I really do feel like I'm getting somewhere this way. I'll try some of the things suggested in this thread and see what they do. I did install the latest Via drivers last night, but after playing Deus Ex again the game crashed, again. A point of interest, maybe; in the SMARTGART settings not only is Fastwrites turned off, but the AGP speed is set to maximum, which is 8x. Now I've no idea what both settings actually are or represent, but maybe there's something wrong there? The other options for AGP speed are 4x and 'off' -- 1x and 2x are present on the slider bar but they're not available.

swimtech

Having completed the chipset/AGP update, this looks like your next step - at the least it will give you a good video driver "foundation" that contains the latest fixes for games (from the video card manufacturer - not patches for the individual games themselves of course). As for fast writes, after you get the driver cleanly installed, try it both ways and be sure to change the setting in your bios as well as in the driver so the settings match. I wouldn't mess with the AGP slider settings in the driver control panel at all, but that is where you would turn on fast writes in Windows after turning them to ON in the bios.

Lchevy79's suggestion to update the bios for the AGP 8x problem looks to be in order as well. I would actually do that first, making certain that it pertains to your exact motherboard.

Let us know...

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bending_unit_82

Well, I got rid of the Catalyst drivers, used drivercleaner, and installed the Omega ones. Everything seems to work fine...except that my problem hasn't been solved. I've been playing Deus Ex 2 all evening, that is about half an hour each time; after that the game locks up. Just as before. Haven't tried Mafia or Enemy Territory (the only other games installed at this time), but I guess it's safe to assume they'll still hang too, occasionally. The strange thing is that in those games the lockups are fairly random and actually more or less rare, while in DX2 they occur almost at the regular interval of about half an hour. I'm hoping to get Far Cry soon, but I really don't want to play it like this. I want to get this problem out of the way. Any more suggestions? I haven't tried turning Fastwrites on or updating the BIOS, though. I don't really have any experience doing that, messing with the BIOS I mean. What exactly does such an update entail?

swimtech

You would download a file, and follow the instructions for the bios update installation from Asus' site - pretty much like installing any other file, but the instructions are usually very specific. The file is in .zip format so you would have to extract the files first.

Looks like the last link in Lchevy79's post is the link you need for the bios update - read the categories and select the Av8x4m14.zip file.

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PoopyTheJ

If Asus has a Windows BIOS updater it's a walk in the park. And get a heavier duty PSU, or check your rails, difference of 10% can cause serious issues. what is running when you boot your computer? Boot your computer run Taskmgr and take a screenshot of all running processes and post it so we can see if there's any conflicts.

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Lchevy79

it is a windows bios update (boy i love that) and all you do is install the update program , download and unzip file to a directory like my documents. open update program follow the steps choice the directory the new bios bin file is in and hit start . it is a walk in the park

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msi K7N2 delta2-AMD 2800xp@2083-1gig of pc2700ram -ati x850xt 256mb -Audigy mp3+ - 1 80gig maxtor 8mb and 1 250gig 16mb maxtor -48x24x48 buslink burner-and a lite on 4x +/- dvd burner xp home samsung lcd (19") 930b monitor

Lchevy79

please download and install the asus probe it will tell us your temp for the cpu and the motherboard it will look like this

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msi K7N2 delta2-AMD 2800xp@2083-1gig of pc2700ram -ati x850xt 256mb -Audigy mp3+ - 1 80gig maxtor 8mb and 1 250gig 16mb maxtor -48x24x48 buslink burner-and a lite on 4x +/- dvd burner xp home samsung lcd (19") 930b monitor

bending_unit_82

A quick reply: once again I'd like to say thanks for the help so far. I haven't yet updated the BIOS, but I have been playing some more Deus Ex, and contrary to what I said earlier it does seem that the Omega drivers provide a little more stability...a little, as the game still locks, only I've been able to play for a few extended periods of time now without too much trouble. If the BIOS update doesn't work though, then maybe the power supply is too weak after all. If replacing that doesn't work, then I'm out of ideas. I would like to ask what 'rails' are, though. Thanks again.

PoopyTheJ

rails = power lines ie 5v 12v etc

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PoopyTheJ

Hey I just found this looking at another site, I'm not sure if this is relevant to your problem or if it would fix it, but..... use at your own risk... If you are having a problem with programs hanging and your system contains an AGP video adapter and an AMD Athlon Processors, you may need to add or edit the following Registry key: Key: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\Session Manager\ Value Name: LargePageMinimum Data Type: REG_DWORD Value: 0xFFFFFFFF in Hex / 4294967295 in Decimal Note: Be sure to backup your Registry

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bending_unit_82

Well, now I've done it... After cleaning out the Catalysts and installing the Omegas, airing out the case, installing the latest VIA drivers and such, I finally tried the latest trick I had left up my sleeve - updating the BIOS. Not being familiar with the whole procedure and being inherently paranoid about computers (especially after all the trouble with this one) I went for the AsusUpdate, which should download and install new BIOS versions by itself. Well, it did, but the installation was interrupted. I tried several more times but it didn't work. So all I could do was close the program, try again, but with the same result. So now I've a corrupted BIOS, I suppose, and the PC won't start up anymore. Horrible, especially because I simply used the AsusUpdate, the official update program that downloads official bioses from the official site.

Well, I guess that means another trip to the store. To tell you the truth I'm mighty tempted to just go for an nVidia again. The lockup problem seems to stem from the graphics card/software, so maybe that'll solve it. I think in the first place I'll get a better power supply; I've a 300 Watt in this PC, which might be too weak.

On a side-note, I received and installed Far Cry today, and found that contrary to Deus Ex 2 (which locked about every half hour, sometimes after a little while longer) it locked after only a few minutes. Same problem, only it appears faster. I'm guessing that means the issue is directly related to how hard the vidcard is taxed, since Deus Ex 2 is from last year and Far Cry is one of the most recent system hogs. I don't know anymore, I just want the trouble to stop. This is not what I bought my new PC for

Once more, thanks for the help. If anyone has any more advice I'm always interested.

swimtech

Oh no, that's a disappointment for sure - the failed bios update.

How far does the computer proceed during the boot process? It's possible that Windows is corrupted - not the bios.

And indeed, your power supply may be an issue... I can see your about trying what is most likely to solve the problem with the least hassle - perfectly logical.

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It's not so much getting your way that matters or not - what matters is how you go about getting it.

PoopyTheJ

make sure you update from a file on the HDD not from the ROM on the internet. I've had issues with using ROms just downloaded but never with one downloaded and already on the HDD. New PSU is a very good idea, new vid card erm well... I'll leave that up to you.

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swimtech

Quote: from PoopyTheJ,
make sure you update from a file on the HDD not from the ROM on the internet

Absolutely... download the files from the locations below.

You can read the instructions and download the Awflash utility here:

http://www.asus.com.cn/support/engli...ios/index.aspx
Print out a copy of the instructions there for reference. The Awflash.exe file is the utility that updates the bios with the bios update file.

Again, the actual bios file is available here:

http://www.asus.com.cn/support/downl...14.zip~zaqwedc
Click on the "Global" heading to download the file

1) Make a formatted system floppy disk...
2) Copy the expanded Awflash.zip files to the floppy disc from step 1...
3) Then add the expanded bios update named Av8x4m14.awd (Av8x4m14.zip expanded out) to the floppy disc from step 1.
4) Boot the floppy and run awflash - according to the instructions. It is a tad tedious, but not difficult.

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It's not so much getting your way that matters or not - what matters is how you go about getting it.

bending_unit_82

I'm writing this from another, older PC right now, in case anyone was wondering. About the new PC; it just doesn't do anything anymore. That is, I turn it on and nothing happens. I did already transfer the harddisc to this old PC so I can (maybe) do some maintenance from here. Or at least backup my Deus Ex 2 savegames...

I've been thinking; if I make a bootdisc and copy the Flash utility and a BIOS to it so it's ready to be used as a BIOS update disc, will my new computer, the one that won't do anything anymore now, start up with it so I can update the BIOS after all? Or, since its BIOS is gone or corrupted, will it not be able to automatically boot up from a floppy as it normally does? If the system can still boot from floppy then I can perhaps update that BIOS yet. Otherwise it's the computer shop that'll have to set it straight I suppose. Somehow...

PoopyTheJ

umm, yeah I'd RMA that mobo. The CMOS is gone, I think it's dead.

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swimtech

Even without the hard drive installed in the one that just had the mishap, can you get to a bios text screen?

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bending_unit_82

No, no bios screens I'm afraid - as I said, the screen just remains blank. Does this mean the motherboard will actually have to be replaced? That it's unusable now because the bios is gone? Christ...

I've been meaning to ask; is it genuinely possible that the lockups are caused merely by a weak PSU? I don't think it can be the drivers, since I've tried the latest Catalyst and the latest Omega drivers, plus I installed the most recent VIA drivers and such for the MB. Heat is out of the question, since the air blowing from the fans in the PC isn't actually hot anywhere, and since I can just play on after a game has locked and I've rebooted. Until the next lockup at least. The only cause I can think of then is the power supply (300W), hence my question of whether it's at all possible that the power supply is causing the lockups in the games. Bear in mind that, as I mentioned earlier, the more demanding a game, the more frequency there is to the lockups. Titles from two or three years ago ran with no difficulty and only locked up seldomly, Deus Ex 2 from last year locked up pretty much every half hour, and Far Cry, which is even more demanding I guess, locked up every two or three minutes. There must be something that can be deduced from that, I just don't know what.

swimtech

It does look like your motherboard is unusable - first time I have ever seen a bios update go bad causing this - sorry too that it was you. You should be able to return the board since it is new though...

Yes, a weak power supply can cause random lockups - happens a lot. After doing the video card driver re-install (which you did), then the motherboard/chipset/AGP driver update, and finally a bios update (which did contain a fix for an AGP glitch for that board, and unfortunately failed) - the next most likely thing to be causing your problem, with the symptoms you have, would be a weak power supply.

If you are running a hard drive with two optical drives, say 512 Mb DDR ram, and an Athlon XP processor with your 9600xt video card the 300W power supply would be at its theoretical limit. The difference between your computer running well (with the proper software - which is what we were confirming) and locking up could be the quality level of your power supply - absolutely. The 12v line is critical in the most recently built computers as the drives, processor, and video card all draw on that voltage.


Edit : BTW, is this how you tried to update your bios?
http://www.asus.com.tw/support/engli...s/ezflash.aspx

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bending_unit_82

No, I used AsusUpdate, a program which you can download from the Asus (the manufacturer of the MB) site and which should download and install new bios versions automatically from the Asus site. That's why I'm quite frustrated as I'm the kind of person who takes care with things like a new PC, for instance whenever I updated anything like new drivers and such I always made a system recovery point and read and followed the readmes. Of course that's of little use now the bios update failed. I'm gonna take the PC back to the store anyway and do the whole story there again. I'll see what comes of it.

swimtech

Best of luck to you...

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It's not so much getting your way that matters or not - what matters is how you go about getting it.

Lchevy79

sorry to hear about the flash going wrong... keep us informed

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msi K7N2 delta2-AMD 2800xp@2083-1gig of pc2700ram -ati x850xt 256mb -Audigy mp3+ - 1 80gig maxtor 8mb and 1 250gig 16mb maxtor -48x24x48 buslink burner-and a lite on 4x +/- dvd burner xp home samsung lcd (19") 930b monitor